Barriss and Dooku are both relatively hard to star up. If they were not in packs, there would not be any complaint. How long does it take you to get Barriss in the normal way? 2 months to 4*? And after 2 months only a small fraction of people get her. By the time you get her, people have already unlocked tonnes of other strong toons that make her less effective. I don't think that anyone bothers to use her in an aggro team. Nerf her too much, she will become trash.
I don't mind with nerfing her a bit, but the problem is (as many other agreed), it makes people lose faith and she is not even that strong for a rare toon.
In response to people who think we defend the chars because we bought them. First, it is reasonable to do so. Second, for me I don't even care about Dooku and nerfing Barriss would just make me even more Op.
I love the conversations going on here! Talking about strategies on how to counter things, different team setups, it's great
Now, I do want to say that my post before was just stating that we are aware of what you all are talking about, it doesn't mean anything changing! It was more of a post showing that we are listening to your feedback.
Why thank you Jesse, for showing that CG is actually paying close attention to feedback around here. It's surprising to know though, that they might actually be no changes to the 2 above mentioned heroes, well we can only say our piece, it's entirely up to you guys to have a better picture (since you know when you are gonna release Yoda and General Grievous to destroy Dooku and Barriss respectively right? right? Hahaha)
That said, looks like we can continue farming our Barriss and Dooku shards. You never know, they might buff them instead.
You started the post about nerf herding , then said said you personally saw nothing wrong just expressing oppressed peoples rage, now your surprised nothing may change....
Are you Donald trump ???? Cause your all over this issue .... I can't tell if you are stoking the flame just cause or that you have a real interest
As your a soft launcher you know these chars are not op so why propagate the myth and instead of a post on changes do what JSA and others are doing and trying to educate players what is really op and how to play and that these are expensive packs that are designed to be good but not op unless you are brand new
Old Ben , cad bane, dearth sidious, all pose worse issues in top game
Dooku and Barriss are fine as is. PvP is not the only aspect of the game.
If you can't beat a D/B team, even a few levels higher, you have a flawed strategy for attacking that team or you're too weak.
The only acceptable nerf to either of these characters would be Dooku bonus on counters, but even that isn't really that big of a deal.
If these characters are nerfed, the next round of complaining will be Sid and Maul, then Lando and Bob. It'll keep going until the Ugs detonator is op and people start complaining.
It's a strategy game. Think.
Please Devs, don't let whiny pvp egos ruin two great characters for everyone else. It'll just be the first few pebbles of an avalanche of op/nerf complaints.
You started the post about nerf herding , then said said you personally saw nothing wrong just expressing oppressed peoples rage, now your surprised nothing may change....
Are you Donald trump ???? Cause your all over this issue .... I can't tell if you are stoking the flame just cause or that you have a real interest
As your a soft launcher you know these chars are not op so why propagate the myth and instead of a post on changes do what JSA and others are doing and trying to educate players what is really op and how to play and that these are expensive packs that are designed to be good but not op unless you are brand new
Old Ben , cad bane, dearth sidious, all pose worse issues in top game
You might be a little mistaken here, I started the post with a title that suggests at "giving ideas on what is a fair change since the nerf is coming anyway", because we all did believe it's coming since EA_Jesse brought it up in [Bugs and Issue].
Following, in my first post I brought up "While we can't stop it from coming, here's what I think would be fair to those suffering from their perceived 'OPness' and those who bought/farmed them". From which, I gave my own idea on what I think would be a fair change (and many actually believed otherwise, which is totally fine, my ideas are far from perfect anyway, which is why this thread is started to collect all ideas)
And when EA_Jesse replied to this thread, saying that there might actually be no changes even though it was identified as an 'issue', that of course surprised me, we all thought there would be one didn't we? At least I really did.
And lastly, I did not propagate any myth (I used the term 'perceived OPness' afterall, I myself find it rather hilarious so many can't handle Barriss, but I can't use my own experience to judge others, so let them have a say too). Therefore this thread is opened to everyone, both of those who want her nerfed and those who want her to remain, to give their ideas and possible solution to it. Which some did, some believed her to fine, but proposed a small HP nerf since others can't seem to deal with Barriss etc.
In fact not even Old ben, darth sidious or even cad bane is even OP in anyway from my perspective lol. And I'm not even one of those guys that dropped a hundred bucks. But that's your view of it and my views, you are definitely entitled to voicing them, if you want a discussion on how to counter these 3 guys, do start another discussion and both others and I are sure to give you some ideas to work around them as well.
I want to apologize for being confusing in my original post of "Known Issues", I probably won't call it that in the future since Barriss and Dooku aren't really issues. We can call them "topics"
Community Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes | Follow me on Twitter - Darokaz
I want to apologize for being confusing in my original post of "Known Issues", I probably won't call it that in the future since Barriss and Dooku aren't really issues. We can call them "topics"
Yeay, that means my Bariss I got yesterday that I earned by farming for months (If you think you cant beat em, then join em) wont get nerf. Though I still think need some change to "heal immunity" debuff.
Whether fix PVP AI to not check for heal for those inflicted with "heal immuniy" wasting their precious turn or just make "heal immunity" only reduce 50% heal.
just beat gw at acct lvl 44 with only consular and talia as healers. no barriss, no lumi. just sid from arena in addition to the starter dudes. my only 4* are starter chewie and sid. lol.
Hey slush its pointless getting involved in the arguement. Different points of view. Theyre never gonna see it our way.
Most people just need to think about how to counter if they dont hv the character. Rest assured they are also farming the things they hate as they complain.
I wish to see teams run 2 taunts out of 5 or even ackbar (I actually farmed him too. Suckered by the skill called it a trap). My pvp life wld be so much easier. Im actually more concerned in meeting a maxed lumi led team. Evasion works after this update.
I guess the only complain I got for Dooku, as well as any other Sith, is that there are no characters that counters them specifically. The Jedis and droids, on the other hand, are checked by so many choices. For Dooku specifically, it would be particularly interesting for EA to design a character that can 100% stun for 1 turn (2 turns will be insanely op), which will render Dooku venerable. Because of the little hp Dooku has, he should be defeated quickly.
Currently my counter-Dooku (also other counter-attackers) is to lower their damage with Tarkin, who I got from premium currency lucky draw. At my level (51) once debuffed, Dooku hits like 400 every non-critical hit. Thus I can afford to either ignore him till the very end of the match, or just out-heal the damages he deals.
As for Barriss, I don't have her. But every time I see her on the other side, I ignore her until I was about to kill one of the enemies. Since I got Sid, the best she can do is to balance the hp, which is annoying but tolerable, considering how hard it is to farm her to higher levels. Usually Barriss can do two heals, but by the time of her second heal, the battle usually turns to my advantage decisively.
Hey slush its pointless getting involved in the arguement. Different points of view. Theyre never gonna see it our way.
Most people just need to think about how to counter if they dont hv the character. Rest assured they are also farming the things they hate as they complain.
I wish to see teams run 2 taunts out of 5 or even ackbar (I actually farmed him too. Suckered by the skill called it a trap). My pvp life wld be so much easier. Im actually more concerned in meeting a maxed lumi led team. Evasion works after this update.
Yeah, I know it's kinda pointless
I can't wait for these people complaining about the Barriss/Dooku OP characters to finally unlock them after farming for ages only to realise they aren't actually OP at all when they get to use them.
I too was a sucker for Ackbar Thought the speed leadership he had would be good (this was back in beta) but he's pretty useless right now.
The only way to solve if she is OP or not, is statistics. How many of the top matches play with her. How many are in the top 10. When you can select them as an ally, how many non-Barris owning players select her.
I am speculating, if your server is anything like mine, that she is in at least 95% of the top decks (top 10ish).
I am also speculating that she is selected more than anyone else as an ally for people who do not own her. Obviously you would never select her if you have her.
If Dooku and Barriss are played at a rate much much higher than other characters, and their terms perform better, then it's obvious they are top tier and possibly OP.
I have Dooku, and don't have Barriss. I think Dooku is busted and mines only 4*. Barriss I don't own but I select everytime I can. Maybe I am in the minority, but I don't believe so.
The thing is, current stats will be highly skewed towards Barriss and Dooku being in use by a lot of players right now because they were made available in paid packs immediately.
Characters like Old Ben, Cad Bane, and Lando for example are all examples of characters being more powerful than Barriss or Dooku. But they're not going to show up very often in the majority of teams because they're still fairly rare and difficult to unlock (unless you spend a lot of money).
We're only 2/3 weeks in since the game launched globally so of course it's going to seem like those 2 characters are everywhere, because they are. Until we give the game enough time for more people to start unlocking other powerful characters we won't have a real representation of character power balance.
I think EA made a huge mistake offering those two characters for sale immediately upon launch, and these discussions are exactly the reason why.
Edit: Forgot to add that I'm fine with Dooku 100% counter chance, but I think him getting so many additional attacks as a result of a single counter is a bug that needs to be fixed.
You so so so nailed this. I'll give an example of that to my personal deck. I do have Dooku and Barris - Barriss is my leader. They are that way though because they came out of the pack at 3/4* and Dooku was an easy farm to 4*. So they are right now among my strongest. But so was a Darth Maul that I got from a chrome too. Maul though has now been benched for a 5* Ahsoka I had to build up over time. Other examples: just pulled Old Ben - now that dude is really really strong. Great ability, good speed, really tanky, effects on death. But Old Ben is still being raised up - he's not in the slot quite yet. Also have a Sid at 4* I'm waiting to get to 5* before gearing up and leveling. Then there is Vader as well. So for right now, yes if you look at what's in PVP - absolutely it will look like they are OP because of usage, but the reality is they are just still the most built / geared up of what people have. That will change for me and others soon as players are nearing higher stars / gears / levels on toons that are works in progress. I'm relying on Barriss / Dooku / Chewy / Consular to carry the team while the roster matures and broadens.
You started the post about nerf herding , then said said you personally saw nothing wrong just expressing oppressed peoples rage, now your surprised nothing may change....
Are you Donald trump ???? Cause your all over this issue .... I can't tell if you are stoking the flame just cause or that you have a real interest
As your a soft launcher you know these chars are not op so why propagate the myth and instead of a post on changes do what JSA and others are doing and trying to educate players what is really op and how to play and that these are expensive packs that are designed to be good but not op unless you are brand new
Old Ben , cad bane, dearth sidious, all pose worse issues in top game
In fact not even Old ben, darth sidious or even cad bane is even OP in anyway from my perspective lol. And I'm not even one of those guys that dropped a hundred bucks. But that's your view of it and my views, you are definitely entitled to voicing them, if you want a discussion on how to counter these 3 guys, do start another discussion and both others and I are sure to give you some ideas to work around them as well.
Yeah I agree here - I think OP needs to be better defined. Something that's good or even if it is the best, doesn't necessarily make it OP. You even led off by mentioning how great Sid's leader skill is. It is very good. Sid is very good - Ben is very good. Cad is deadly with the high chance stun and double strike. Lando is deadly. These toons can be countered and defeated though with the right mix of toons (and if we had more than 5 minutes in PVP )
I was debating if Ben should get the nerf hammer with other players I chat with - and then I proceeded to have a team with Ben on it and other good toons down 5 toons to 2...but the timer ran out on me. The enemy was Savage Opress (tanky), Dooku, Old Ben - Consular and Barriss - so 2 healers there. Since Ben does the damage down, it makes the task of killing his team take longer...which is punitive with a timer and a draw.
My conclusion was that yes Ben is very good - but Ben + timer in PVP is OP - not Ben necessarily. We should have a PVP system in place that evaluates the battle as the timer expires and assigns a winner. We'd need some requirements on that so that players don't game it, but doing away with the draw will help negate the OPness of healer / Old Ben and other teams that just drag out the battle but don't necessarily win eventually. This would also help vs. the Ima Gun Di teams that have a bunch of Jedi countering over and over that makes the battle really long too.
I have dooku, but don't have Barriss. But 98% of my friend list have her. So I get to play around with her a lot. Dooku is fine In My opinion and I feel Barriss has a little too much hp.
467-325-146
Pretty good collection of characters so far and GROWING
The only one I can see nerfing is MAYBE Dooku, and only to tone down the turn meter gain on off-turn attacks. Otherwise, his relatively fragile nature is the best balance for him.
What I'm now imagining is the next set of characters who'll have anti-Sith synergy. We know Old Republic Yoda is planned from the load screen. I also expect we'll see Jedi Knight or Jedi Master Luke, both of which would be a perfect place for anti-Sith ability. That will also provide some counters to Dooku and Sidious.
We can also predict that sometime later this month we'll get a massive update pimping out characters from the new movie, with First Order and Resistance synergy that'll likely upend the metagame completely.
So... really, let's stop hyperventilating because some people can't strategize. Nothing in the game right now is game breaking. It's a remarkably well balanced game, with counters to just about everything.
Stop crying and play the game the way it is. Either find a way to beat them, join them or quit. EA bending to the will of people crying I'll quit well then they will loose a paying player if they change stuff. I don't have the Barriss chick but I still beat her. I understand I'm never going to be number 1...that's fine. I'm still enjoying the game.
Stop crying and play the game the way it is. Either find a way to beat them, join them or quit. EA bending to the will of people crying I'll quit well then they will loose a paying player if they change stuff. I don't have the Barriss chick but I still beat her. I understand I'm never going to be number 1...that's fine. I'm still enjoying the game.
If you don't have people interested in the health and well being of the game, the game won't succeed. This is true of any competitive game. What EA needs to do is determine which, if any, of the crying is warranted.
I'm more in favor of nerfing the existing character than creating new characters to counter the over-powered ones to make the game more balanced. And I own both characters and I paid for both. There's a reason they are so over powered... does any other character have 100% counter attack? Or even 75%? With turn meter gain and extra attack chance? No.
Are there any other characters that heal with so many hitpoints? (In fact BO has more hitpts than ANY of my characters) Plus chance to heal on attacks? And heal through anti-healing debuffs? No.
They are far too over powered and a design flaw from the beginning. By creating character that counter act specific OPed characters the game turns into a rock-paper-scissors type match. "Oh, I couldn't beat {name} because I didn't have {name} to beat them" And if they are characters that are next available for purchase than a money-making trend will be obvious. Everyone will want/need the new characters to counteract the old and so on and the cycle will continue.
Rock-Paper-Scissors is never a fun mobile game.
I think it would be helpful to actually know the levels of the players making posts (I am currently 48). I think most of the complaints about barriss/dooku are probably coming from players that recently started. I would be more interested in how either actually does at 60 though.
On the new servers the rankings are mainly driven by level. Usually if a team is within a level or 2 of you, even if they have better characters you can out play the AI. Obviously there are some exceptions near the top with people that spent enough to 6/7 star all their characters already.
Part of the reason these two get so many complaints if because of how common they are due to the fact they were in bundles. Most people have yet see/play against many of the other charcters.
I would oppose a nerf to Barriss's equalizing ability. I agree with the posters saying it would make her obsolete. She offers little else and is hard to upgrade compared Lumi and Consular (both of whom can actually do damage). The counter to her is ability block/stuns. But I just think not many people have access to ability block early on.
While Dooku can be annoying, he really doesnt seem that game changing when I face him. His counters are annoying, but he has very little hp. I can usually burn him down between barriss's turns with a couple strong attackers.
Neither seems game changing enough to need nerfed yet. Old Ben, Lando, Maul, and some others actually give me more trouble, you just do not see them that often right now.
The main problem is actually crystals. Unless you spend money, you get very few crystals. Rather then saving up a few days worth of crystals to buy a chrom pack (and probably just get some shards), most people are better off spending the crystals on energy. As leveling and getting farmable shards/Gear is more beneficial then taking a small chance at a character that will be hard to upgrade. So other then the people spending a lot of money, most people just do not have many characters right now.
Hey slush its pointless getting involved in the arguement. Different points of view. Theyre never gonna see it our way.
Most people just need to think about how to counter if they dont hv the character. Rest assured they are also farming the things they hate as they complain.
I wish to see teams run 2 taunts out of 5 or even ackbar (I actually farmed him too. Suckered by the skill called it a trap). My pvp life wld be so much easier. Im actually more concerned in meeting a maxed lumi led team. Evasion works after this update.
Yeah, I know it's kinda pointless
I can't wait for these people complaining about the Barriss/Dooku OP characters to finally unlock them after farming for ages only to realise they aren't actually OP at all when they get to use them.
I too was a sucker for Ackbar Thought the speed leadership he had would be good (this was back in beta) but he's pretty useless right now.
I'm more in favor of nerfing the existing character than creating new characters to counter the over-powered ones to make the game more balanced. And I own both characters and I paid for both. There's a reason they are so over powered... does any other character have 100% counter attack? Or even 75%? With turn meter gain and extra attack chance? No.
Are there any other characters that heal with so many hitpoints? (In fact BO has more hitpts than ANY of my characters) Plus chance to heal on attacks? And heal through anti-healing debuffs? No.
They are far too over powered and a design flaw from the beginning. By creating character that counter act specific OPed characters the game turns into a rock-paper-scissors type match. "Oh, I couldn't beat {name} because I didn't have {name} to beat them" And if they are characters that are next available for purchase than a money-making trend will be obvious. Everyone will want/need the new characters to counteract the old and so on and the cycle will continue.
Rock-Paper-Scissors is never a fun mobile game.
There are already characters that counter both and are better overall. Dooku is NOT a pack toon - he's farmable and many (all?) will have him in time. The pack just gave others a jump on him. Dooku himself kills Barriss with his anti-Jedi abilities. So ... problem for BO is solved already with Dooku available to everyone over time. Nerf Dooku though and your BO counter goes away, which is not good. Then Dooku you can just not attack him till later on. Use Chewy and a taunt / heal approach. He's not a threat at all if you don't keep attacking him. Be cautious using AOE vs. Dooku. Use a different approach. There are great healers that can be farmed that can use the Chewy approach like Ahsoka, Consular, and Lumi. Those 3 toons also hit pretty hard once built up. Once you can just avoid Dooku, what is he? He's an average power having squishy toon. Stop hitting the guy early and giving him multiple hit points so that his power starts to become high. He becomes a non-factor that way.
It is really "fair" to boost Count Dooku like that. It is almost impossible to beat anyone with Count Dooku in the squad. It's really annoying having differences like that. >.<
It is really "fair" to boost Count Dooku like that. It is almost impossible to beat anyone with Count Dooku in the squad. It's really annoying having differences like that. >.<
Work on your strategy. I don't mean to be rude, but he is actually pretty easy to handle.
They don't have to be bad to get wrecked by him. If you have invested a bunch of time (but not money) into an AOE team, then you are just boned.
If you don't spend money, switching your roster and rebuilding up a new one to take on Dooku/Barriss teams is probably not worth the effort, and if I was in that situation I would just quit.
It's fine having different 'tiers' of characters. You don't have to be 100% balanced among all characters. But you can't have characters that are just Godly compared to what f2p have access to. I guess you can, you will just lose some of your player base.
I found it funny to read all these comments
Tho for my part i just usually 1shot poor tiny Dooku when ever he appears.
His HP pool is crazy low so no need to panic, take a second to look of your toons and what they have of abilitys. So many ways to counter him.
And not to mention Barriss, in almost any fight i have where she is present. She usually is my last target to kill. That she equals out HP isnt much of a problem as its easy to lure her into using it wrong.
Alot of the assassin toons has plenty tools to deal with most things, even for f2p.
Its mostly about how you distribute your assets.
My tip is look at what you got, check what you can get, make a team up in your mind from that and go for it.
One way to deal with Barris is: hit the lowest health char first (well leave out Dooku), that will trigger her heal. Once her heal is triggered, her team is pretty much toast. Now if they have more healers then that might be a bit of problem. If they have Old Daka, hit Old Daka first so she can't revive. And so on, look at their abilities and decide who should be tackled first.
You have to think a bit when you attack a team, not just go in press the auto battle button and then complain that certain chars are Op.
If you only have starting chars, it will be harder, but not impossible to deal with these chars. More often than not you find it is easy if you use the right tactics. But it is supposed to be harder right? It will be easier when you get your Op free characters.
Now, when you are at higher ranks, you see some teams that are very hard to beat (all 7*, high levels) etc (every team can be beaten with free accounts, just harder). But well, that's rare and you don't expect people throw in thousands of dollars for nothing. And you just have to live with it. EA does not make money by giving out nothing.
I think Sid and Luminina are quite "Op", they should be nerfed, lol (nah, don't really think so, but they are equally strong). Lum hits like a truck, heal just as good and other good things. People don't complain about them, not because they are not strong, but because they are free and anyone can get them.
Use your hardest hitters to take out the secondary healer. Then as @davida8546 said, drop someone down a bit to draw out Barriss's heal, and that's the ballgame most likely. If you have Dooku, keep stunning her. If you have Lumi, you can also ability block her.
I use her, but I know how to beat her. I'd take two Barrisses over one Old Ben, now THAT is an OP character....
Replies
I don't mind with nerfing her a bit, but the problem is (as many other agreed), it makes people lose faith and she is not even that strong for a rare toon.
In response to people who think we defend the chars because we bought them. First, it is reasonable to do so. Second, for me I don't even care about Dooku and nerfing Barriss would just make me even more Op.
You started the post about nerf herding , then said said you personally saw nothing wrong just expressing oppressed peoples rage, now your surprised nothing may change....
Are you Donald trump ???? Cause your all over this issue .... I can't tell if you are stoking the flame just cause or that you have a real interest
As your a soft launcher you know these chars are not op so why propagate the myth and instead of a post on changes do what JSA and others are doing and trying to educate players what is really op and how to play and that these are expensive packs that are designed to be good but not op unless you are brand new
Old Ben , cad bane, dearth sidious, all pose worse issues in top game
Great post.
You might be a little mistaken here, I started the post with a title that suggests at "giving ideas on what is a fair change since the nerf is coming anyway", because we all did believe it's coming since EA_Jesse brought it up in [Bugs and Issue].
Following, in my first post I brought up "While we can't stop it from coming, here's what I think would be fair to those suffering from their perceived 'OPness' and those who bought/farmed them". From which, I gave my own idea on what I think would be a fair change (and many actually believed otherwise, which is totally fine, my ideas are far from perfect anyway, which is why this thread is started to collect all ideas)
And when EA_Jesse replied to this thread, saying that there might actually be no changes even though it was identified as an 'issue', that of course surprised me, we all thought there would be one didn't we? At least I really did.
And lastly, I did not propagate any myth (I used the term 'perceived OPness' afterall, I myself find it rather hilarious so many can't handle Barriss, but I can't use my own experience to judge others, so let them have a say too). Therefore this thread is opened to everyone, both of those who want her nerfed and those who want her to remain, to give their ideas and possible solution to it. Which some did, some believed her to fine, but proposed a small HP nerf since others can't seem to deal with Barriss etc.
In fact not even Old ben, darth sidious or even cad bane is even OP in anyway from my perspective lol. And I'm not even one of those guys that dropped a hundred bucks. But that's your view of it and my views, you are definitely entitled to voicing them, if you want a discussion on how to counter these 3 guys, do start another discussion and both others and I are sure to give you some ideas to work around them as well.
Whether fix PVP AI to not check for heal for those inflicted with "heal immuniy" wasting their precious turn or just make "heal immunity" only reduce 50% heal.
Most people just need to think about how to counter if they dont hv the character. Rest assured they are also farming the things they hate as they complain.
I wish to see teams run 2 taunts out of 5 or even ackbar (I actually farmed him too. Suckered by the skill called it a trap). My pvp life wld be so much easier. Im actually more concerned in meeting a maxed lumi led team. Evasion works after this update.
Currently my counter-Dooku (also other counter-attackers) is to lower their damage with Tarkin, who I got from premium currency lucky draw. At my level (51) once debuffed, Dooku hits like 400 every non-critical hit. Thus I can afford to either ignore him till the very end of the match, or just out-heal the damages he deals.
As for Barriss, I don't have her. But every time I see her on the other side, I ignore her until I was about to kill one of the enemies. Since I got Sid, the best she can do is to balance the hp, which is annoying but tolerable, considering how hard it is to farm her to higher levels. Usually Barriss can do two heals, but by the time of her second heal, the battle usually turns to my advantage decisively.
Yeah, I know it's kinda pointless
I can't wait for these people complaining about the Barriss/Dooku OP characters to finally unlock them after farming for ages only to realise they aren't actually OP at all when they get to use them.
I too was a sucker for Ackbar
Guild: Fear The Boot
You so so so nailed this. I'll give an example of that to my personal deck. I do have Dooku and Barris - Barriss is my leader. They are that way though because they came out of the pack at 3/4* and Dooku was an easy farm to 4*. So they are right now among my strongest. But so was a Darth Maul that I got from a chrome too. Maul though has now been benched for a 5* Ahsoka I had to build up over time. Other examples: just pulled Old Ben - now that dude is really really strong. Great ability, good speed, really tanky, effects on death. But Old Ben is still being raised up - he's not in the slot quite yet. Also have a Sid at 4* I'm waiting to get to 5* before gearing up and leveling. Then there is Vader as well. So for right now, yes if you look at what's in PVP - absolutely it will look like they are OP because of usage, but the reality is they are just still the most built / geared up of what people have. That will change for me and others soon as players are nearing higher stars / gears / levels on toons that are works in progress. I'm relying on Barriss / Dooku / Chewy / Consular to carry the team while the roster matures and broadens.
Yeah I agree here - I think OP needs to be better defined. Something that's good or even if it is the best, doesn't necessarily make it OP. You even led off by mentioning how great Sid's leader skill is. It is very good. Sid is very good - Ben is very good. Cad is deadly with the high chance stun and double strike. Lando is deadly. These toons can be countered and defeated though with the right mix of toons (and if we had more than 5 minutes in PVP
I was debating if Ben should get the nerf hammer with other players I chat with - and then I proceeded to have a team with Ben on it and other good toons down 5 toons to 2...but the timer ran out on me. The enemy was Savage Opress (tanky), Dooku, Old Ben - Consular and Barriss - so 2 healers there. Since Ben does the damage down, it makes the task of killing his team take longer...which is punitive with a timer and a draw.
My conclusion was that yes Ben is very good - but Ben + timer in PVP is OP - not Ben necessarily. We should have a PVP system in place that evaluates the battle as the timer expires and assigns a winner. We'd need some requirements on that so that players don't game it, but doing away with the draw will help negate the OPness of healer / Old Ben and other teams that just drag out the battle but don't necessarily win eventually. This would also help vs. the Ima Gun Di teams that have a bunch of Jedi countering over and over that makes the battle really long too.
Pretty good collection of characters so far and GROWING
What I'm now imagining is the next set of characters who'll have anti-Sith synergy. We know Old Republic Yoda is planned from the load screen. I also expect we'll see Jedi Knight or Jedi Master Luke, both of which would be a perfect place for anti-Sith ability. That will also provide some counters to Dooku and Sidious.
We can also predict that sometime later this month we'll get a massive update pimping out characters from the new movie, with First Order and Resistance synergy that'll likely upend the metagame completely.
So... really, let's stop hyperventilating because some people can't strategize. Nothing in the game right now is game breaking. It's a remarkably well balanced game, with counters to just about everything.
If you don't have people interested in the health and well being of the game, the game won't succeed. This is true of any competitive game. What EA needs to do is determine which, if any, of the crying is warranted.
Are there any other characters that heal with so many hitpoints? (In fact BO has more hitpts than ANY of my characters) Plus chance to heal on attacks? And heal through anti-healing debuffs? No.
They are far too over powered and a design flaw from the beginning. By creating character that counter act specific OPed characters the game turns into a rock-paper-scissors type match. "Oh, I couldn't beat {name} because I didn't have {name} to beat them" And if they are characters that are next available for purchase than a money-making trend will be obvious. Everyone will want/need the new characters to counteract the old and so on and the cycle will continue.
Rock-Paper-Scissors is never a fun mobile game.
On the new servers the rankings are mainly driven by level. Usually if a team is within a level or 2 of you, even if they have better characters you can out play the AI. Obviously there are some exceptions near the top with people that spent enough to 6/7 star all their characters already.
Part of the reason these two get so many complaints if because of how common they are due to the fact they were in bundles. Most people have yet see/play against many of the other charcters.
I would oppose a nerf to Barriss's equalizing ability. I agree with the posters saying it would make her obsolete. She offers little else and is hard to upgrade compared Lumi and Consular (both of whom can actually do damage). The counter to her is ability block/stuns. But I just think not many people have access to ability block early on.
While Dooku can be annoying, he really doesnt seem that game changing when I face him. His counters are annoying, but he has very little hp. I can usually burn him down between barriss's turns with a couple strong attackers.
Neither seems game changing enough to need nerfed yet. Old Ben, Lando, Maul, and some others actually give me more trouble, you just do not see them that often right now.
The main problem is actually crystals. Unless you spend money, you get very few crystals. Rather then saving up a few days worth of crystals to buy a chrom pack (and probably just get some shards), most people are better off spending the crystals on energy. As leveling and getting farmable shards/Gear is more beneficial then taking a small chance at a character that will be hard to upgrade. So other then the people spending a lot of money, most people just do not have many characters right now.
There are already characters that counter both and are better overall. Dooku is NOT a pack toon - he's farmable and many (all?) will have him in time. The pack just gave others a jump on him. Dooku himself kills Barriss with his anti-Jedi abilities. So ... problem for BO is solved already with Dooku available to everyone over time. Nerf Dooku though and your BO counter goes away, which is not good. Then Dooku you can just not attack him till later on. Use Chewy and a taunt / heal approach. He's not a threat at all if you don't keep attacking him. Be cautious using AOE vs. Dooku. Use a different approach. There are great healers that can be farmed that can use the Chewy approach like Ahsoka, Consular, and Lumi. Those 3 toons also hit pretty hard once built up. Once you can just avoid Dooku, what is he? He's an average power having squishy toon. Stop hitting the guy early and giving him multiple hit points so that his power starts to become high. He becomes a non-factor that way.
If you don't spend money, switching your roster and rebuilding up a new one to take on Dooku/Barriss teams is probably not worth the effort, and if I was in that situation I would just quit.
It's fine having different 'tiers' of characters. You don't have to be 100% balanced among all characters. But you can't have characters that are just Godly compared to what f2p have access to. I guess you can, you will just lose some of your player base.
Tho for my part i just usually 1shot poor tiny Dooku when ever he appears.
His HP pool is crazy low so no need to panic, take a second to look of your toons and what they have of abilitys. So many ways to counter him.
And not to mention Barriss, in almost any fight i have where she is present. She usually is my last target to kill. That she equals out HP isnt much of a problem as its easy to lure her into using it wrong.
Alot of the assassin toons has plenty tools to deal with most things, even for f2p.
Its mostly about how you distribute your assets.
My tip is look at what you got, check what you can get, make a team up in your mind from that and go for it.
You have to think a bit when you attack a team, not just go in press the auto battle button and then complain that certain chars are Op.
If you only have starting chars, it will be harder, but not impossible to deal with these chars. More often than not you find it is easy if you use the right tactics. But it is supposed to be harder right? It will be easier when you get your Op free characters.
Now, when you are at higher ranks, you see some teams that are very hard to beat (all 7*, high levels) etc (every team can be beaten with free accounts, just harder). But well, that's rare and you don't expect people throw in thousands of dollars for nothing. And you just have to live with it. EA does not make money by giving out nothing.
I think Sid and Luminina are quite "Op", they should be nerfed, lol (nah, don't really think so, but they are equally strong). Lum hits like a truck, heal just as good and other good things. People don't complain about them, not because they are not strong, but because they are free and anyone can get them.
"If we can't get them, get them nerfed"!
I use her, but I know how to beat her. I'd take two Barrisses over one Old Ben, now THAT is an OP character....