Is Zader still good?

AimingForGaming

I've got tons of Zihilus and Zaul teams in my shard, but my guild still runs the occasional heroic Rancor raid. At the same time though, I read on a post that Vader was apparently being fixed. Just wanna know if at this point if he's more worth it than Zaul or Zihilus in PvP, and even just worth the zetas for PvE as well.

StarSon

I still have several Zader teams in my top 20, though I rarely use him there except against ZGJ teams. So, really, the answer depends on your own leaderboard.

Carbonari

Yes, he is still good. Works great in raids. He was my first choice for zeta even after the fix. Kylo will be next. Maul is third on my list. Raids are more of a priority for me than arena (still top 20, most days). If the current arena meta is your goal, slap it on Maul.

Otherwise, the raids aren't going anywhere and the meta will always shift.

Morgoth_Lives

Zader is still good in arena if you have a fast TFP. I'm on a December 15 shard and I take top 10, sometimes top 2 with my Zader.

All depends on your shard. IMO though you need a blazing fast TFP to make it work. 270 plus

AimingForGaming

Carbonari wrote: »

Yes, he is still good. Works great in raids. He was my first choice for zeta even after the fix. Kylo will be next. Maul is third on my list. Raids are more of a priority for me than arena (still top 20, most days). If the current arena meta is your goal, slap it on Maul.

Otherwise, the raids aren't going anywhere and the meta will always shift.

That last bit is very true. But did they fix his leader so there aren't tens of thousands of DoTs or no?

Tharivol

Zaul Teams get 20% TM at the start, which makes it extremely hard to catch up on Speed to deactivate enemy team before they attack you.
On top of that 20% Evasion and Stealth if they are Critically hit makes it much worse.

Depending on your Guild and Raid effectiveness also Arena Enemies, you must decide which is better for you, it is impossible to advice without knowing these.
For example I have to help out my Guild, I am the highest damage on Raids, therefore I must go Zader first. Also on my Arena there are 3 strong Zauls on top 10, but I manage to beat them with my Palp lead still one way or another on payouts. (1 has 7* Nihilus and 5* Sith Trooper, just hoping that he is not the lead at my payout times)

DarthBarron

I still run a zVader team (https://swgoh.gg/u/kevwalker/). Top 3 in the arena and can beat most zMaul teams. Like most have said, it is more shard based. I have a very fast zSid (257 with room for improvement) and TFP (253 and can be improved)... so I can outpace some zMaul's TM gains (205 is the critical speed number for me). After that, it is RNG depending on who and how many stuns their EP gets off. The nice part about my team is that it is AoE debuff based, so it works to negate stealth. I have not regretted giving my first zeta to Vader and my second to Sid... only 5/20 on my third and that may be dooku, kylo or maul.

Nebulous

I think zVader is still an excellent leader for arena. Here is my info: https://swgoh.gg/u/jadehubris/

I come in 1st 99% of the time (sometimes too busy to battle) There is No team that I cannot beat. The best zMaul on my shard sits in 1st all day until I move him. I don't leave top 5 often. Granted, I do have some good mods. Sid is over 270 speed and he can actually improve. I just moved some mods around today. Feel free to poke around my profile and let me know your thoughts.

Elebrind

I've been running zader in arena for a bit, and with my 260 speed tfp, I've been consistently top 5 with regular 1st place finishes depending on match-ups. Wondering if I should try to fit my zeta sid in my team. Currently using Vader, tfp, ep, boba, shoretrooper, not sure who to take out. Also should I sacrifice crit/potency for sid if I use him?

https://swgoh.gg/u/elebrind/

Thanks

yavok_luis

Nebulous wrote: »

I think zVader is still an excellent leader for arena. Here is my info: https://swgoh.gg/u/jadehubris/

I come in 1st 99% of the time (sometimes too busy to battle) There is No team that I cannot beat. The best zMaul on my shard sits in 1st all day until I move him. I don't leave top 5 often. Granted, I do have some good mods. Sid is over 270 speed and he can actually improve. I just moved some mods around today. Feel free to poke around my profile and let me know your thoughts.

Any issues with Rex teams? It looks like your Sid goes first which would trigger Rex to cleanse and then Vader/Palps can't debuff.

Tharivol

Elebrind wrote: »

I've been running zader in arena for a bit, and with my 160 speed tfp, I've been consistently top 5 with regular 1st place finishes depending on match-ups. Wondering if I should try to fit my zeta sid in my team. Currently using Vader, tfp, ep, boba, shoretrooper, not sure who to take out. Also should I sacrifice crit/potency for sid if I use him?

https://swgoh.gg/u/elebrind/

Thanks

260*
Sid while being great, I dont think he is a good choice against Zaul Leads. (Especially when you are defending)

Since he puts 2 extra dots on Crits and his Crit in general is high, he just will turn enemy Sith invisible.
Yes he will work pretty well with TFP Buff Immunity and Palpatine Shock but the problem is with AI in control their 20% Tenacity feels more like 80% Tenacity, and most of the time my TFP with 75% Potency (+32% from my Palp lead) gets resisted "even if" he manages to hit the enemy. I feel extremely lucky if he hits 2 Buff Immunities at this point.

On the other hand, DarthBarron and Nebulous seems to be making Sid work quite efficiently it seems. I would love their replies about this subject too.

PS: Lately I just put in B2 while fighting against Zauls and he makes wonders.. (Especially with Accuracy on Arrow and Potency on Cross), that might help on your battles against Zauls a lot..

Elebrind

Thanks, that makes sense against maul teams.

And fixed speed typo

Nebulous

yavok_luis wrote: »

Nebulous wrote: »

I think zVader is still an excellent leader for arena. Here is my info: https://swgoh.gg/u/jadehubris/

I come in 1st 99% of the time (sometimes too busy to battle) There is No team that I cannot beat. The best zMaul on my shard sits in 1st all day until I move him. I don't leave top 5 often. Granted, I do have some good mods. Sid is over 270 speed and he can actually improve. I just moved some mods around today. Feel free to poke around my profile and let me know your thoughts.

Any issues with Rex teams? It looks like your Sid goes first which would trigger Rex to cleanse and then Vader/Palps can't debuff.

Nah not really. Even when I battle them, I play as the ai would and use my skills even with tenacity up.

Rex is super squishy. My Gk is clutch at keeping ep alive after his team moves. It is true that sid will go first and most likely produce 5 crits so their whole team gets to go, after that, tm reductions till occurs even with ten up, so I can still slow them way down. If Rex becomes an issue, I'd sub in b2/dt for ep and then I become a lot less attractive as a target.

Nebulous

Tharivol wrote: »

Elebrind wrote: »

I've been running zader in arena for a bit, and with my 160 speed tfp, I've been consistently top 5 with regular 1st place finishes depending on match-ups. Wondering if I should try to fit my zeta sid in my team. Currently using Vader, tfp, ep, boba, shoretrooper, not sure who to take out. Also should I sacrifice crit/potency for sid if I use him?

https://swgoh.gg/u/elebrind/

Thanks

260*
Sid while being great, I dont think he is a good choice against Zaul Leads. (Especially when you are defending)

Since he puts 2 extra dots on Crits and his Crit in general is high, he just will turn enemy Sith invisible.
Yes he will work pretty well with TFP Buff Immunity and Palpatine Shock but the problem is with AI in control their 20% Tenacity feels more like 80% Tenacity, and most of the time my TFP with 75% Potency (+32% from my Palp lead) gets resisted "even if" he manages to hit the enemy. I feel extremely lucky if he hits 2 Buff Immunities at this point.

On the other hand, DarthBarron and Nebulous seems to be making Sid work quite efficiently it seems. I would love their replies about this subject too.

PS: Lately I just put in B2 while fighting against Zauls and he makes wonders.. (Especially with Accuracy on Arrow and Potency on Cross), that might help on your battles against Zauls a lot..

Hey there!

My sid is zeta so that makes a huge impact on his survival. Now as far as crit goes, if I'm facing a whole sith maul team, and they all go stealth, I can still pick who I want to target. The thing about the extra zSid dots is they don't ever leave, they give me free damage with out worrying about dodges (this adds up on toons like Vader, nihilis, sith tank and savage) and Vader's culling blade can't be evaded so it's a point-and-click kill button.

Now you hit the nail on the head with b2. I run full potency mods and i have an accuracy arrow with 15 speed he uses too. The issue is, if maul lands daze, and you can't cleanse it, his tm gain is negated. I find that ep fulfills the role of b2 better. If ep can land the stuns, those sith can't dodge and are free to beat up.

Carbonari

AimingForGaming wrote: »

Carbonari wrote: »

Yes, he is still good. Works great in raids. He was my first choice for zeta even after the fix. Kylo will be next. Maul is third on my list. Raids are more of a priority for me than arena (still top 20, most days). If the current arena meta is your goal, slap it on Maul.

Otherwise, the raids aren't going anywhere and the meta will always shift.

That last bit is very true. But did they fix his leader so there aren't tens of thousands of DoTs or no?

As far as I know the fix only impacted the turn meter reduction chance/amount. With careful tm reduction from the others, you can still get plenty of DoTs. The videos I've watched from before the bug fix certainly have more DoTs than my attempts. I believe this is due to the infinite turn meter reduction bug, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

DarthBarron

@Tharivol - With the AoE barrage I can open with, the stealth doesn't really bother my first turn. I run Zader, Zid, Fett, EP and TFP. The only thing stealth affects on their first turn is the primary target of TFP or Fett. The next turn is normally enough debuffs to use Execute and Culling Blade to take out two toons.

A lot of it just comes down to RNG and who gets stunned and who I can rob TM from.

@Nebulous is absolutely right a zeta'd Sid greatly increases his survivability and overall arena viability, I would not recommend him on an arena team with a Zeta and a good set of potency mods. He has great value in the raids too as part of a Zader team. The other nice part about Sid is the healing immunity. It has a great use against Chaze teams.

Mazurka

Zader is still extremely good in arena, however the team requires very good modding to stay on par with zaul teams. I have a tfp at 280 speed, and as little crit chance as possible to try and avoid stealthing people. I also run zhilus (u) and kenobi to have a taunt. Zaul runs out of steam pretty quick, and you dominate the rest of the match besides the beginning flurry.

Tharivol

Nebulous wrote: »

Hey there!

My sid is zeta so that makes a huge impact on his survival. Now as far as crit goes, if I'm facing a whole sith maul team, and they all go stealth, I can still pick who I want to target. The thing about the extra zSid dots is they don't ever leave, they give me free damage with out worrying about dodges (this adds up on toons like Vader, nihilis, sith tank and savage) and Vader's culling blade can't be evaded so it's a point-and-click kill button.

Now you hit the nail on the head with b2. I run full potency mods and i have an accuracy arrow with 15 speed he uses too. The issue is, if maul lands daze, and you can't cleanse it, his tm gain is negated. I find that ep fulfills the role of b2 better. If ep can land the stuns, those sith can't dodge and are free to beat up.

Oh the Zauls I face usually have Sun Fac (Tenacity - Prot modded) or 5-6* Sith Trooper unfortunately, making it impossible for all of them to go stealth, even without taunt I have to face Sun Fac when my 107% Potency TFP is all resisted or evaded (happened so many times )
Also their Palpatines usually have 220/230+ Speed so it's hard to catch up to their speed even with a TFP (due to their 20% TM gain)

Hence why I go with Tenacity Mods with Accuracy Arrow / Potency Cross on B2. Since enemy Mauls attack after their Palpatine / Nihilus and Vader (Maul Base Speed 100 / Nihilus 120 / Vader 121 / Palpatine 122) , B2 triggers at least 3 times before it is even Maul's turn to Daze him. Even if he uses Daze, B2 usually resists.

Baze would have helped a looot here, wish I bought and got Baze to 5* instead of Shoretrooper. (Full F2P here, but thanks to Arena top 1-2 rewards for 2-3 months sitting on 5-6k crystals easily most of the time, maybe I should just get Baze as well, on the other hand he will be F2P in 3-4 Weeks I guess)