For those who hate nerfs (me too) what crosses the line?
So yea I dont wanna nerf anyone out atm. Havent wanted to since Rey and not because I thought Rey was OP just because she was the most boring character ever. But I DIGRESS.
So for all nerf herder haters out there, where's your line? Whats the least OP a char can be before you swallow the nerf pill and say "hey, you know what, this character needs to get whacked by the nerf bat a little bit."
Obvs im not interested in responses like "if vader did 10x his damage". Where's your line?
So for all nerf herder haters out there, where's your line? Whats the least OP a char can be before you swallow the nerf pill and say "hey, you know what, this character needs to get whacked by the nerf bat a little bit."
Obvs im not interested in responses like "if vader did 10x his damage". Where's your line?
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Hey this question Im asking should be interesting to you too. arent you curious what the nerf haters think is unacceptable? (or more accurately, bad)
I don't understand why a significant portion of this game's player-base seems so averse to balancing. It's such a helpful thing for game health, and could very easily lead to a much more interesting arena. More things being usable and new things not being made to simply be the best would mean that the meta is a lot less defined, leading to a wider variety of teams to fight.
SWGOH Design team wants that, but can't do it because they need to sell chars and direct a meta for gear sales. So they changed their plan to this:
Lets release or revamp characters to be 10% better overall than the old chars so they sell. Then later we can bump the old guys up.
Problem is is that they dont get the chance to bump the old guys, some of them are super old/weak and by now theyve kinda given up that mission.
Players dont want nerfs obs because they like their stronger chars but also some dislike them because they dont mind the model if the teams we get to use are fun.
Mainly people who hate nerfs are the whales. They deem it unfair that they spend money on a character and then the character later becomes weakened. If this was game with say a monthly subscription, without all the p2w features, we'd see a lot more patches nerfing and buffing different characters. Overall the game would be much much better and way more balanced. Sadly the only thing really keeping this game afloat is the star wars branding.
Just as some examples: people who want to run all Jedi teams say Darth Maul is OP - but he clearly isn't, Jedi are just the worst possible team to run against him.
There's a thread floating around about Dooku being OP with a Nihilus lead - but the person complaining didn't have a single character that could stun, daze or heal block Dooku. Maul/Palp are solid counters - no nerf needed.
Even CherryBaze - B2, Boba and Palp can all stop that train. No nerf needed.
Only if the character (or synergy) can't be countered realistically, should a nerf be considered. As an extreme example - droids as currently comprised, but imagine there are no pretaunts, no Raid Han and no Rex lead....then maybe. Something like that.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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i was gonna post something but this about sums it up.
This x10000000000
Solution: release even more powerful characters.
That is my thread. Perhaps a nerf is not what is needed, but a redesign. A single character should not be able to solo an entire team of equal level and strong synergy unless that team has a stun, or daze etc. That's just poor design. There is another thread about it now as well.
Thanks. At least someone gets it.
@Nikoms565
Really good response, makes a lot of sense.
Just a few questions im left with.
What if the counter is really hard to get? Like, if the only counters were GenG and FoTP?
What if the counter is behind a tight paywall (like chromium only) and it doesnt seem like a F2P release is soon?
What if the counter is a character that is useless everwhere else, like if the counter was CUP or Ugnaught?
ty
Sorry also forgot, what if the counter required is a specific 3-man, 4-man, or specific 5-man setup required to beat? As in, I need exactly TFP, Boba, Palp, Vader all to be in my team to counter said char.
Heh. Game balancing doesn't mean wait til one character becomes completely out of control until you need to nerf it. It means looking at usage statistics and viable counters and making slight adjustments to keep a healthy balanced game.
If anything, ftp players dislike nerfs more than whales. Sure whales lose some money, but they're already willing to spend tons of money to stay on top. Ftp players invest time instead of money which is (usually) far more difficult to make up than disposable income.
I've never referred to myself as any type of seafood but I am 100percent positive I don't like to spend money to see it negated by a game developer.
The Poe meta nerf was justified because the Poe that went first at the initial coin flip had a instant win after that I can't justify any nerfs
The protection up date nerfs were the absolute worst nerfs in all SWGOH.
I'd say Wiggs did. Those dudes were practically the only way to succeed in arena for months.
A more current example would be Z Maul. There is little-to-no counterplay against those teams. You could say B2, but a Sith team under Z Maul can gain stealth more often than B2 can dispel, especially if Nihilus is on it.
Maul's lead is, to put it simply, over-tuned. Things like the free TM and evasion are unnecessary excess. They could be cut and it would still be one of the best leads in the game.
Don't forget about the biggest nerf in the game. Mods.
Yea no that's called power creep. That's exactly how a game destroys itself.
Dota 2 is balanced in exactly this fashion. And it's one of the most successful games ever made.
Dota has done plenty of nerfing.
What part of what I was wrote suggests that Dota doesn't nerf?
The key things they do are:
1. Always buff more than they nerf, creating power creep.
2. Keep heroes different from each other by buffing strengths and nerfing weaknesses.
3. Continually introduce new mechanics as part of new heroes / items.
Its in no way a flawed strategy when executed correctly, and it's something that a lot of other game devs have tried to mimic. Obviously SWGOH deviates from the base ideas by not nerfing at all, but that doesn't mean this isn't the correct model to follow.
Yea the problem with swgoh is the no-nerf policy.
When dooku can 1vs 4 an arena team that all has green health/green health + protection.
Then clearly you need help desiging your squads.