Phasma's Fire at Will

SinnerWill

I'm of a mind that I believe Phasma's leader ability (Fire At Will) needs a hefty damage penalty attached to it even at high skill levels. Reason for this: multi-hitting units that get called (Leia, FOTP) dish out too much damage for an innate assist, and self-buffing/de-buffing units via basic attacks (GS offense up, Leia crit chance up, QGJ turn-meter up, Rey's foresight, etc...) dish out hefty damage values on their own, which get compounded by the bonus effects attached to it - potentially leading to indefinitely sustainable offense up (Geo Sol), plethora of turn-meter gains (Geo, QGJ, Ewok Elder, Dooku etc..), or even near-endless foresight (Rey, and potentially the worst possibility). Additionally, I've found that Leia and FOTP's multi-hitting bugged (proccing beyond the intended # of bonus attacks) basic attacks tend to occurring more frequently when called for assist (possibly why this bug persists) and FOTP is definitely more prone to bug out (I've now seen 6 consecutive bonus attacks, so 7 total shots from a FOTP that was called to assist - he had offense down on him, target was Obi-Wan, evaded 2 of the shots to explain how I survived that long).

Basically, I think Phasma's leader ability should either permit full damage to be dealt without penalty (at level 7) if bonus affects (self-buffs or enemy debuffs) are disabled during her leader's passive version of assist OR needs a hefty damage decrease (even at level 7), but continues to permit bonus affects attached to basics. Personally, I'm in favor of the second option as it would maintain strategic tact (permitting debuffs and self-buffs to occur) and would help balance the current meta.

RAYRAY

There is nothing wrong with Phasma or her ability.

SinnerWill

Anyone agree, disagree, or have further insight to offer?

Also, it appears as though when Phasma's Fire At Will is low-leveled (still has a damage penalty), anyone that procs an assist while they have some form of an offense up buff completely bypasses the damage reduction from a low-leveled FAW (meaning, it hits for full damage AND gets modified by offense up as if there were no penalty whatsoever).

Inversely, when offense down is present on her team, low-leveled FAW procs tend to bypass its damage reduction as well, only being modified by offense down.

Camalus

I think its something to do with the arena, because let me tell you I don't get nearly as many assists in missions or gw with 32% chance with a full first order team as these **** get in the arena with 16% chance. Almost a night and day difference for me.

Shooting4life

I think it would be fine if call assist (for anyone of phasma leader) does not allow any multi attacks from any assisting toon.

Camalus

Somebody said they get random ally assits on counters as well but I have never seen that happen, if that is the case then it needs fixed.

SinnerWill

RAYRAY wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with Phasma or her ability.

With the exception of the 2 situations mentioned above (particularly with the incorporation of more frequently "breaking" Leia's and FOTP's multi-attacks), I'd say this is pretty true, but: Multi-attackers and Bonus-Effect attached to basic units really tend to over-perform (GS gaining endless offense up potential -bear in mind for swarm level 8-, Rey gaining endless foresight potentially -making her a BEAST of a tank-, FOTP and Leia capable of finishing off virtually any unit, QGJ gaining some extra turns, Ewok Elder gaining MANY extra turns -and granting a few extra turns to the entire team- and by extension, many more heals/revives/debuffs removed, etc...).

So... giving light to that, you really refuse to reconsider?

And bear in mind, I have a fully geared 7* Phasma, myself, so I'm not here complaining about a unit I don't own or know intimately...

Michajam

I think Phasmas leader skill is right on. To be quite honest it is probably the best leader synergy skill in the game. If you want to take full advantage of her synergy then a FO team is recomended. If anything there should be a bigger discrepency between non FO and FO bonuses. In regards to FOTP I suggest you focus him first because it doesn't take much to bring him down unless the FOTP is high starred.

While your ideas about some of the characters being used is unfair because they can get more opportunities to bonus I ask you if you think the 18% chance to attack a second time is broken then maybe in the back of your mind you think the synergy is what you should be going for. Why don't you just try your idea and then see if what you are saying is true.

SinnerWill

Michajam wrote: »

I think Phasmas leader skill is right on. To be quite honest it is probably the best leader synergy skill in the game. If you want to take full advantage of her synergy then a FO team is recomended. If anything there should be a bigger discrepency between non FO and FO bonuses. In regards to FOTP I suggest you focus him first because it doesn't take much to bring him down unless the FOTP is high starred.

While your ideas about some of the characters being used is unfair because they can get more opportunities to bonus I ask you if you think the 18% chance to attack a second time is broken then maybe in the back of your mind you think the synergy is what you should be going for. Why don't you just try your idea and then see if what you are saying is true.

I 7*'d Phasma before Lumi, personally. I'm well aware of pretty much every single possible synergy with her. And actually, at end-game (well, current Meta-cap), I've found optimal performance with units that meet the multi-attack and Bonus Effect on basic characters to be the way to go, regardless of whether or not they happen to also be FO.

THIS is why I feel there's an issue with FAW. Even with fewer assist procs per match, they bring devastating potentials that come attached to their basic (either outrite finishing a foe that had full health, further benefitting themselves/others for their next action, or disabling foes).

SinnerWill

Camalus wrote: »

Somebody said they get random ally assits on counters as well but I have never seen that happen, if that is the case then it needs fixed.

The only character capable of calling an assist via counter is Aayla (since it's attached to her basic attack). Phasma's FAW shouldn't cause assists via counters, since a counter-attack isn't considered to make the character "in-turn" (which they need to be to cause FAW to occur).

Additionally, assisting characters aren't considered to be "in-turn", with one strange exception that I've noticed partially: Ventress. Ventress is the only unit I've encountered when called to assist, the buff effect from Rampage will "fall-off"/expire. All other characters don't lose any duration on their buff. And while Ventress's Rampage description states "next action/attack", as does Anakin's Righteous Fury, yet his doesn't fall-off during an assist.

pay2win

Phasma is fine

SinnerWill

pay2win wrote: »

Phasma is fine

I'm getting the feeling that some people are just TOO attached to their Phasma, or that they're still yet to reach "end-game". I know I very much am, myself, but I'm willing to admit when something's significantly unbalanced, even if I've invested heavily into it.

That, or some folks simply don't bother to read the specifics that I've pointed out, including bugs/glitches associated with it. Simply fear for their favorite leader, and comment in her defense.

dogwelder79

An assist attack shouldn't trigger extra attacks. That's what should be fixed.

Camalus

SinnerWill wrote: »

Camalus wrote: »

Somebody said they get random ally assits on counters as well but I have never seen that happen, if that is the case then it needs fixed.

The only character capable of calling an assist via counter is Aayla (since it's attached to her basic attack). Phasma's FAW shouldn't cause assists via counters, since a counter-attack isn't considered to make the character "in-turn" (which they need to be to cause FAW to occur).

Additionally, assisting characters aren't considered to be "in-turn", with one strange exception that I've noticed partially: Ventress. Ventress is the only unit I've encountered when called to assist, the buff effect from Rampage will "fall-off"/expire. All other characters don't lose any duration on their buff. And while Ventress's Rampage description states "next action/attack", as does Anakin's Righteous Fury, yet his doesn't fall-off during an assist.

ohhh I see

Nerfherder17

im not sure what the answer is, but i think a tweak is in order. I dont think they had in mind that phasma in arena with sid and dooku would allow multiple attacks from the same character in turn 1. As i have said before 56 of the top 100 in my arena have phasma as leader, that indicates something, and when the first two characters to go are sid and dooku every match that puts the other team at an extreme disadvantage considering the match may go 3 rounds. This all may be legit if arena phasmas didnt have an over the top assist rate. i know, ive heard there is no AI buff, but it seems to happen much more than 16 to 18 percent. I borrowed a 7* phasma in missions the other day to test and the assist proc didnt pop until my 26th move. its happening every round when im in GW and arena. Disagree if you must, but this is my experience with her.

SinnerWill

dogwelder79 wrote: »

An assist attack shouldn't trigger extra attacks. That's what should be fixed.

There's only one character that can call for an assist while assisting (Aayla, again, since it's attached to her basic). So... This wouldn't be much of a fix.

SinnerWill

@Widget_gaget

I know this point has been made, and devs responded stating AI-controlled units don't gain a bonus, and we all experience this, but they parsed the numbers. Her rate is SUPPOSEDLY correct, which can only mean that due to the fact that others can attack them in arena, it's POSSIBLE that Phasma isn't proccing her attack much (if at all) against them, which means the next to attack her might be getting "back-charged"/"owed"/forcibly increased rates to proc it since the frequency would be low and forcing itself to correct it.

If their numbers are correct, then that's the only way to explain it.

And while it's unusual (rare) for me to face a Phasma-led team that doesn't proc many assists, it does happen, and when it happens I honestly felt like something went wrong with the odds for that fight.

Nerfherder17

Here is the issue with that type of thing, and it also goes on when a jedi attacks sid. what they looked at were the numbers in the coding. fine, they are probably right, but that doesnt mean that there isnt a bug out there that is allowing it to happen outside of the defined numbers. If i can make a comparison to the GW token bug. they didnt know it was happening. and if they look at their "numbers" im sure it shows that gw is paying out the right amount, which it is. I know ive all together stopped attacking sid with JC or lumi. especially JC's force wave it almost NEVER lands, but the 35% evade against jedi is procing correctly on their end.

J7000

Phasma is definitely OP. She sits on the bench in my cteam and is one hek of a cheerleader. She also courageously leads my team in intelligence challenges for nice gears.

Nerfherder17

you are suggesting that because you dont use her, that there isnt a problem? I have her too, but havent leveled her past 4*. i fight her so often that i dont even feel like using her in GW. same with dooku and sid.

Vodo

SinnerWill wrote: »

pay2win wrote: »

Phasma is fine

I'm getting the feeling that some people are just TOO attached to their Phasma, or that they're still yet to reach "end-game". I know I very much am, myself, but I'm willing to admit when something's significantly unbalanced, even if I've invested heavily into it.

That, or some folks simply don't bother to read the specifics that I've pointed out, including bugs/glitches associated with it. Simply fear for their favorite leader, and comment in her defense.

Well, Phasma is here for anybody, not just the full geared, full starred, lvl70 endgame guys. More damage reduction would render Phasma almost useless before endgame. For me Phasma is fine. I run him with Sid, Lumi, IG86 and 'ol Daka and the (rather few) bonus attacks are always welcome. I know from arena that it can be annoying with chars like Rey, FOTP, Leia or Dooku but I think the problem is rather that some of those chars are just a bit too powerful maybe. Don't blame Phasma for that

Ello_Asty

Nerf everyone! Nerf Carl! Carl needs to be nerfed much more than Phasma even!

Ello_Asty

J7000 wrote: »

Phasma is definitely OP. She sits on the bench in my cteam and is one hek of a cheerleader. She also courageously leads my team in intelligence challenges for nice gears.

This, so much this. Mine is 7*/7G. I've moved past her until maybe I unlock FOO some day...

pay2win

SinnerWill wrote: »

pay2win wrote: »

Phasma is fine

I'm getting the feeling that some people are just TOO attached to their Phasma, or that they're still yet to reach "end-game". I know I very much am, myself, but I'm willing to admit when something's significantly unbalanced, even if I've invested heavily into it.

That, or some folks simply don't bother to read the specifics that I've pointed out, including bugs/glitches associated with it. Simply fear for their favorite leader, and comment in her defense.

She's already been replaced on my team. I guess I was TOO attached to see her hurt in arena.

TheVinegru

There are a lot of people on this forum who resist any suggestion that rebalancing should include both buffs and nerfs. It's really difficult to sift through the bias to find actual objective opinion.

Nerfherder17

for you guys that have replaced her already, who did you use? btw, just checked arena there are 58 phasma leaders in top 100. I noticed a lot of qui gons that werent there previously and a few ventresses i hadnt seen before.

pay2win

Widget_gaget wrote: »

for you guys that have replaced her already, who did you use? btw, just checked arena there are 58 phasma leaders in top 100. I noticed a lot of qui gons that werent there previously and a few ventresses i hadnt seen before.

Sid as leader and replaced her with Kylo

J7000

pay2win wrote: »

Widget_gaget wrote: »

for you guys that have replaced her already, who did you use? btw, just checked arena there are 58 phasma leaders in top 100. I noticed a lot of qui gons that werent there previously and a few ventresses i hadnt seen before.

Sid as leader and replaced her with Kylo

Yep, guilty. Sid is my lead. Would love to try Boba but too many good toons in Cantina to farm.

Ok so I am exaggerating. She's actually a bteam toon and gets used in GW maybe once a week.

Nerfherder17

ok, so there are 18 sid leads in the top 100. thats 2.5% of all available toons running 78% leadership in my arena. I will admit that its a coin toss for most people to use one over the other as most teams i come across have both toons , but doesnt that seem unreasonable high?

murton09

TheVinegru wrote: »

There are a lot of people on this forum who resist any suggestion that rebalancing should include both buffs and nerfs. It's really difficult to sift through the bias to find actual objective opinion.

Removing the names and skins and playing that way testing each would be the only way

pay2win

Widget_gaget wrote: »

ok, so there are 18 sid leads in the top 100. thats 2.5% of all available toons running 78% leadership in my arena. I will admit that its a coin toss for most people to use one over the other as most teams i come across have both toons , but doesnt that seem unreasonable high?

Probably due to limited characters. Its easier to build a crit based team than a full rebel, empire, or resistance team.