In game balance vs lore balance

I understand the characters in game can not fully represent their real power in the Star Wars Universe, to make the game playable the devs have "nerfed/buffed" characters to be playable in a 5 character team. My suggestion is what if some characters take more than one slot? That way devs can better represent the power of the character.

Replies

  • They kind of already do. Biggs and Wedge are both meh on their own, but together they're really good.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • It's an interesting idea but it would require a complete redesign of many features so it's never going to happen. I'm fine with the game the way it is tbh
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    As stated this is what's going in with co-synergy between toons.

    The problem with 1 toon taking 2 spots is without a change to current systems that toon would be "easy" to gear(and mod) unless they require a whole new type of gear that is double the work to get. This is compared to the 2 toons it would take to fill this spots
  • Allenb60
    2171 posts Member
    edited March 2017
    I bet this would be really nice, instead of gearing two characters you only have to gear one, unless they take two sets of gear or something...
  • i think my taking more than one slot the OP means like just for example EP would take up 2 player slots so you'd only have 4 players on your team if using him.
  • I actually was going to suggest the contrary for a popularly requested toon - Embo. He and his pet, Marrok, should be together as one unit. Embo could shoot his bowcaster, but then he could also do a coordinated attack with Marrok, and Marrok could also have a counter chance when Embo is attacked. Marrok would not operate as a distinct unit with his own health, he would simply die when Embo dies. His attack power would be based on Embo's stats. So altogether, it would be more of an aesthetic thing, but I think it would be really cool to have some combo toons like the one I'm suggesting.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    spotremix wrote: »
    i think my taking more than one slot the OP means like just for example EP would take up 2 player slots so you'd only have 4 players on your team if using him.

    Yes, but if this toon took the same amount of prep as EP currently does (gear and mods) but had the power he wants to give them to warrant 2 spots, that would be a little crazy. It would require something not currently in game to give any equality to the current system.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    spotremix wrote: »
    i think my taking more than one slot the OP means like just for example EP would take up 2 player slots so you'd only have 4 players on your team if using him.

    Yes, but if this toon took the same amount of prep as EP currently does (gear and mods) but had the power he wants to give them to warrant 2 spots, that would be a little crazy. It would require something not currently in game to give any equality to the current system.

    agreed.
  • But then where would we draw the line? Lord wise obviously nihilus and yoda are top tier, but so is emperor palpatine, Vader, anikin, nearly all of the Jedi masters, boba so that it's not just lightsaber dudes. Would all of them be 2 character people?

    Also you have the case in how their abilities or stats would scale for 2 positions, unless they have double health they would be blasted down as easily as 1 guy. then what do you do with the other stats, you can't give them double of multiple stats as then their net skill gain would be way more than 2 individual toons.

    I'd like this idea if it were implemented perfectly, but as of now CG has not proven themselves to be the best designers in terms of game balance so it's incredibly iffy
  • PapiBlanco wrote: »
    Lord wise obviously nihilus and yoda are top tier, but so is emperor palpatine, Vader, anikin, nearly all of the Jedi masters, boba so that it's not just lightsaber dudes.
    Boba Fett had like 30 seconds of screen time in the original trilogy, and he ended up getting killed by a blind guy by accident. If not for Extended Universe stories and a loyal cult fan following, he would be known as the Wile E. Coyote of the Star Wars galaxy.
  • If that means that toon has 12 gear slots per gear level, then yes...
  • PapiBlanco wrote: »
    Lord wise obviously nihilus and yoda are top tier, but so is emperor palpatine, Vader, anikin, nearly all of the Jedi masters, boba so that it's not just lightsaber dudes.
    Boba Fett had like 30 seconds of screen time in the original trilogy, and he ended up getting killed by a blind guy by accident. If not for Extended Universe stories and a loyal cult fan following, he would be known as the Wile E. Coyote of the Star Wars galaxy.

    Boba Fett had 6m 23s of screen time alone in ESB. At least know what your talking about before spouting wild facts like they are truth.
    I fight the good fight
  • Dreislao wrote: »
    Boba Fett had 6m 23s of screen time alone in ESB. At least know what your talking about before spouting wild facts like they are truth.
    Well, that changes everything.

    The movie should've been titled The Life & Times of Boba Fett: Unstoppable Interplanetary Buttkicker! :D
  • Mullato
    2582 posts Member
    Dreislao wrote: »
    PapiBlanco wrote: »
    Lord wise obviously nihilus and yoda are top tier, but so is emperor palpatine, Vader, anikin, nearly all of the Jedi masters, boba so that it's not just lightsaber dudes.
    Boba Fett had like 30 seconds of screen time in the original trilogy, and he ended up getting killed by a blind guy by accident. If not for Extended Universe stories and a loyal cult fan following, he would be known as the Wile E. Coyote of the Star Wars galaxy.

    Boba Fett had 6m 23s of screen time alone in ESB. At least know what your talking about before spouting wild facts like they are truth.

    Really? I must have sneezed and missed it.
  • Batman44gaming
    1826 posts Member
    edited March 2017
    SwiftMooky wrote: »
    I actually was going to suggest the contrary for a popularly requested toon - Embo. He and his pet, Marrok, should be together as one unit. Embo could shoot his bowcaster, but then he could also do a coordinated attack with Marrok, and Marrok could also have a counter chance when Embo is attacked. Marrok would not operate as a distinct unit with his own health, he would simply die when Embo dies. His attack power would be based on Embo's stats. So altogether, it would be more of an aesthetic thing, but I think it would be really cool to have some combo toons like the one I'm suggesting.

    I really like this idea. It opens up tons of new possibilities, like Hondo and Pilf MukMuk.
    And we can give the tuskens banthas too!

    (You should really make a post about this)
    BECAUSE I'M BATMAN - me
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    SwiftMooky wrote: »
    I actually was going to suggest the contrary for a popularly requested toon - Embo. He and his pet, Marrok, should be together as one unit. Embo could shoot his bowcaster, but then he could also do a coordinated attack with Marrok, and Marrok could also have a counter chance when Embo is attacked. Marrok would not operate as a distinct unit with his own health, he would simply die when Embo dies. His attack power would be based on Embo's stats. So altogether, it would be more of an aesthetic thing, but I think it would be really cool to have some combo toons like the one I'm suggesting.

    How do you deal with the fact that you would be getting double power for only prepping 1 toon?

    Yes they share health, that's a start, but your suggestion doesn't fit any current mechanism for building the toon. It's just hard to see how a toon with double power/skills would not be OP, considering the ease of building them up to an appropriate lvl.
  • spotremix
    1566 posts Member
    PapiBlanco wrote: »
    But then where would we draw the line? Lord wise obviously nihilus and yoda are top tier, but so is emperor palpatine, Vader, anikin, nearly all of the Jedi masters, boba so that it's not just lightsaber dudes. Would all of them be 2 character people?

    Also you have the case in how their abilities or stats would scale for 2 positions, unless they have double health they would be blasted down as easily as 1 guy. then what do you do with the other stats, you can't give them double of multiple stats as then their net skill gain would be way more than 2 individual toons.

    I'd like this idea if it were implemented perfectly, but as of now CG has not proven themselves to be the best designers in terms of game balance so it's incredibly iffy

    guess it depends on how deep the star wars universe goes for you. i only trust what is canon and i personally only focus on episodes 1-6.

    the dudes i think that would get that attention is palpatine, yoda, vader, and anakin. the rest of the jedi aren't worthy of that and certainly not boba.
  • spotremix wrote: »
    i think my taking more than one slot the OP means like just for example EP would take up 2 player slots so you'd only have 4 players on your team if using him.

    Yes, thats what I meant.
  • Iceih_SWG
    301 posts Member
    edited March 2017
    If that means that toon has 12 gear slots per gear level, then yes...
    Kyno wrote: »
    As stated this is what's going in with co-synergy between toons.

    The problem with 1 toon taking 2 spots is without a change to current systems that toon would be "easy" to gear(and mod) unless they require a whole new type of gear that is double the work to get. This is compared to the 2 toons it would take to fill this spots

    Not necessary, it can be just the same gear, what you gain in easier gearing, you loose in synergies, skill variety and attacks per turn (2 characters means 2 attacks per turn 1 character means 1 attack).
  • Iceih_SWG wrote: »
    I understand the characters in game can not fully represent their real power in the Star Wars Universe, to make the game playable the devs have "nerfed/buffed" characters to be playable in a 5 character team. My suggestion is what if some characters take more than one slot? That way devs can better represent the power of the character.

    Does this mean I get 100 stormtroopers to fight one Jedi. To make it lore balanced.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Iceih_SWG wrote: »
    If that means that toon has 12 gear slots per gear level, then yes...
    Kyno wrote: »
    As stated this is what's going in with co-synergy between toons.

    The problem with 1 toon taking 2 spots is without a change to current systems that toon would be "easy" to gear(and mod) unless they require a whole new type of gear that is double the work to get. This is compared to the 2 toons it would take to fill this spots

    Not necessary, it can be just the same gear, what you gain in easier gearing, you loose in synergies, skill variety and attacks per turn (2 characters means 2 attacks per turn 1 character means 1 attack).

    But your OP, talks about them being more powerful, so why would you need 2 attacks if it could do most/all of that damage in 1.

    Why would you want 6 skills if the 3 you have are fitting of your suggestion of making them more powerful and follow lore.

    You talk about having a non selectable toon that has the synergy, so what loss of synergy, and this 1 toon would have a tag with some team synergy also.
  • Iceih_SWG
    301 posts Member
    edited March 2017
    Kyno wrote: »
    But your OP, talks about them being more powerful, so why would you need 2 attacks if it could do most/all of that damage in 1.

    Why would you want 6 skills if the 3 you have are fitting of your suggestion of making them more powerful and follow lore.

    You talk about having a non selectable toon that has the synergy, so what loss of synergy, and this 1 toon would have a tag with some team synergy also.

    The character is more powerful, but you will be missing other synergies and roles in the team.

    Example: if you have Ventress and Cad Bane, fighting Chewbacca and Leia, you will want to kill Leia first, removing the Chewbacca's taunt with Ventress skill and hitting Leia with Cad Bane special. In the other hand if you have super Anakin, your hits will go to Chewbacca instead of Leia who is the real threat.
  • spotremix wrote: »
    PapiBlanco wrote: »
    But then where would we draw the line? Lord wise obviously nihilus and yoda are top tier, but so is emperor palpatine, Vader, anikin, nearly all of the Jedi masters, boba so that it's not just lightsaber dudes. Would all of them be 2 character people?

    Also you have the case in how their abilities or stats would scale for 2 positions, unless they have double health they would be blasted down as easily as 1 guy. then what do you do with the other stats, you can't give them double of multiple stats as then their net skill gain would be way more than 2 individual toons.

    I'd like this idea if it were implemented perfectly, but as of now CG has not proven themselves to be the best designers in terms of game balance so it's incredibly iffy

    guess it depends on how deep the star wars universe goes for you. i only trust what is canon and i personally only focus on episodes 1-6.

    the dudes i think that would get that attention is palpatine, yoda, vader, and anakin. the rest of the jedi aren't worthy of that and certainly not boba.

    Boba fett was the best of the orig trig bounty hunters. He was the dog the bounty hunter of the SW universe. There is a reason that the empire with their unlimited supply of trained soldiers decided to employ bounty hunters so often instead of just throwing a small legion of storm troopers here and there, and it's because they are great at what they do. If you couldn't gather this from the ordinal trilogy then you could get it from the prequels (part of episodes 1-6) that hypes up jango to be god tier as he goes up toe to toe with obi wan (at the time in the top 5 of Jedi). If not that then the clone wars (canon) that has nother bounty hunters and displays their skills against other top tier enemies.

    Yeah boba fett got like the worst death in history but we are talking about the same movies that had yoda, the last and most powerful Jedi, die from old age. Then proceeded to show that 20 years ago (remember yoda lived to like 900, so it's only a very small part of his life) yoda was doing some dope flips and stuff. Basically the same concept
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