Poe Dameron balancing

Replies

  • Keaven wrote: »
    Regard the DpS meta issue, reducing damage across the board will only further narrow the scope of effective heroes and not solve the problem, and may potentially swing the balance towards unbeatable stall squads in the arena.

    The issue is a bit more complicated than that and requires some precision and slowly incremented changes to key heroes over time as to not completely remove their functions or synergy. Some nerfs and more buffs etc.

    Defense mechanics are also imbalanced compared to offense mechanics which could be addressed.

    +1

    +2
  • d3gauss
    311 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Smithie wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe to a state he is unusable in the Arena, who would I contact to get a refund of the Force Awakens pack and all the crystals I spent to get him to 7*.

    Yes I use him yes he is good but he can be countered by QGJ and still has above average health.

    If your going to keep Nerfing Poe I want Sid Lumi Tie Pilot Leia nerfed too!

    I'll get on the refund train if they nerf Poe more.

    This is like walking through a hole in a fence, building a house, then asking for compensation when someone comes and closes the hole and asks you to leave.

    You had to freaking know poe was too powerful, there were a million posts on the forums about it and he is over represented in game. You chose to just ignore all of those signs and continue on your merry way. I don't feel sorry for you at all, and you are kidding yourself further if you think they stop balancing him here.
  • medetec
    1571 posts Member
    Honestly I think it's fair for players to ask for compensation when a character is nerfed. Personally I think there's no question Poe will need further balancing, but I also think that in a game like this where you invest time and especially money to progress, that progress needs to be kept.

    I think theres been a few version of how to deal with that, but you can see mine at the top of the last page. Basically, when you nerf a character you give players the option for a time to refund the shards ingame and apply them to another character (of the same rarity).
  • There is a viable tank though, His name is Poe.

    When I heard of Poe's abilities I told myself, boy that would go great with my droids in arena. This was 6 weeks ago.

    Everyone was yelling nerd nerf nerf and instead I just started mine from scratch and now I am top 20 in my shard instead of top 100-200 with a 5* Poe and 5* Poggle. I farmed them both from scratch...

    Maybe instead of nerfing you should try playing the game and earning your place, and if you are **** that a Poe beat your team then try another team.

    I'm hitting 7* Poe tomorrow. Look, they gave out Phasma and Poe for free. Depending on who you got, that's who you tried to improve. I think it's telling that they are nerfing them both.
  • d3gauss wrote: »
    Smithie wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe to a state he is unusable in the Arena, who would I contact to get a refund of the Force Awakens pack and all the crystals I spent to get him to 7*.

    Yes I use him yes he is good but he can be countered by QGJ and still has above average health.

    If your going to keep Nerfing Poe I want Sid Lumi Tie Pilot Leia nerfed too!

    I'll get on the refund train if they nerf Poe more.

    This is like walking through a hole in a fence, building a house, then asking for compensation when someone comes and closes the hole and asks you to leave.

    You had to freaking know poe was too powerful, there were a million posts on the forums about it and he is over represented in game. You chose to just ignore all of those signs and continue on your merry way. I don't feel sorry for you at all, and you are kidding yourself further if you think they stop balancing him here.

    Not all all. I built that house, with money. I didn't choose what was given to me. But I certainly have a reasonable expectation that it was given to me for a reason. Therefore I relied on that.
  • Keyzer_Soze
    117 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    If you think the Barris nerf was a shitstorm, just wait. They drop Poes speed by 1, it's a hurricane shitstorm of monumental proportions. I'll take my thousand dollars back in an instant.
  • Tak
    352 posts Member
    If you think the Barris nerf was a shitstorm, just wait. They drop Poes speed by 1, it's a hurricane shitstorm of monumental proportions. I'll take my thousand dollars back in an instant.

    Lol no you won't get a cent back. Quit whining like this it's rediculous
  • Maybe you wouldn't, but when I put 10k into app purchases a month, I can do things you can't. Including getting my money back if I'm not satisfied.
  • Tak
    352 posts Member
    Maybe you wouldn't, but when I put 10k into app purchases a month, I can do things you can't. Including getting my money back if I'm not satisfied.

    You won't get anything back. Your reasoning is flawed beyond belief. No refunds on poe. You know why? He's not a chromium exclusive character. Anyone can farm him.

    Get off your high horse you are embarrassing yourself buddy
  • MenaceTEC wrote: »
    Keaven wrote: »
    Regard the DpS meta issue, reducing damage across the board will only further narrow the scope of effective heroes and not solve the problem, and may potentially swing the balance towards unbeatable stall squads in the arena.

    The issue is a bit more complicated than that and requires some precision and slowly incremented changes to key heroes over time as to not completely remove their functions or synergy. Some nerfs and more buffs etc.

    Defense mechanics are also imbalanced compared to offense mechanics which could be addressed.

    +1

    With repeating myself in mind I believe the fix is so simple.

    Add a character or give a skill to an existing character(s) that reduces damage by 40-60% for two turns.


    Easy.

    No nerfs problem solved.

    Clone Sergeant.
    d3gauss wrote: »
    Smithie wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe to a state he is unusable in the Arena, who would I contact to get a refund of the Force Awakens pack and all the crystals I spent to get him to 7*.

    Yes I use him yes he is good but he can be countered by QGJ and still has above average health.

    If your going to keep Nerfing Poe I want Sid Lumi Tie Pilot Leia nerfed too!

    I'll get on the refund train if they nerf Poe more.

    This is like walking through a hole in a fence, building a house, then asking for compensation when someone comes and closes the hole and asks you to leave.

    You had to freaking know poe was too powerful, there were a million posts on the forums about it and he is over represented in game. You chose to just ignore all of those signs and continue on your merry way. I don't feel sorry for you at all, and you are kidding yourself further if you think they stop balancing him here.

    Not all all. I built that house, with money. I didn't choose what was given to me. But I certainly have a reasonable expectation that it was given to me for a reason. Therefore I relied on that.

    Actually, it's more like they grant you a land and they sell building materials. You spend a fortune and build a house. Then they send their lawers, sorry, the house must be demolished and turned into a barn...but no worries, here we have a different land that's safe, Ewok Land.

  • Brilliant response. What game would you recommend that I try out next? Closed a deal today so I've got a couple grand to burn.
  • Preemo_Magin
    1826 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Keyzer:
    If you think the Barris nerf was a shitstorm, just wait. They drop Poes speed by 1, it's a hurricane shitstorm of monumental proportions. I'll take my thousand dollars back in an instant.

    Bunnies: I object!

    (Crown mumbling)

    CG_Judge: <clap clap clap> Silence! Denied.

    Keyser: the defense rests, Your Honor.

    (Everybody exits the room and continues their happy lives)

  • Preemo. You got my best laugh of the day there.
  • Tak
    352 posts Member
    Brilliant response. What game would you recommend that I try out next? Closed a deal today so I've got a couple grand to burn.

    If you want to burn money like its going out of style Star Wars force collection might be your game
  • Maybe you wouldn't, but when I put 10k into app purchases a month, I can do things you can't. Including getting my money back if I'm not satisfied.

    I don't think you have put 10k in this game. You and me are in same server, you are just 2 levels above me and I have spent 20$ lol. And you get beaten everyday lol, even with your precious poe. If you spent that much money you never need poe. Poe is poor man's way to beat whales with fotp, leia, Rey
  • medetec wrote: »
    Honestly I think it's fair for players to ask for compensation when a character is nerfed. Personally I think there's no question Poe will need further balancing, but I also think that in a game like this where you invest time and especially money to progress, that progress needs to be kept.

    I think theres been a few version of how to deal with that, but you can see mine at the top of the last page. Basically, when you nerf a character you give players the option for a time to refund the shards ingame and apply them to another character (of the same rarity).

    Tell that to Blizzard, ArenaNet, Bioware, 2k, Piraxis do I need to continue? Nerfing is part of competitive gaming. If you think you have rights than guess again.. Would love to get Blizzards monthly fee back because they "changed" the game.
    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
  • My credit card company says I have rights.

    And those rights always seem to be immediately defended by my CC company have I needed to enact them.
  • MenaceTEC wrote: »

    With repeating myself in mind I believe the fix is so simple.

    Add a character or give a skill to an existing character(s) that reduces damage by 40-60% for two turns.

    Easy.

    No nerfs problem solved.

    Umm Old Ben and grand moff Tarkin? Maybe a few others.

    Fights should not last more than a couple of minutes, being locked out for a half an hour would be rage inducing. The devs should do lots of nerfs and buffs to keep the meta constantly changing. That would be fun from my perspective.

    Agreed. Long battles I think is a real issue. The damage reduction I propose essentially balances the Poe issue by countering his skill. Adds depth by looking past actions 1 and 2.

    Most people don't want to have to counter his skill... Using one of the many posted Poe counter teams. Or by doing the work to get Poe. So I suppose unless it's a skill or character handed out to everyone for free with no work they won't be happy.
  • Arijit wrote: »
    Maybe you wouldn't, but when I put 10k into app purchases a month, I can do things you can't. Including getting my money back if I'm not satisfied.

    I don't think you have put 10k in this game. You and me are in same server, you are just 2 levels above me and I have spent 20$ lol. And you get beaten everyday lol, even with your precious poe. If you spent that much money you never need poe. Poe is poor man's way to beat whales with fotp, leia, Rey

    My 2k is worth 200 times your 20$. But by all means, continue. Post away donkey, and make people like me not want to play games with people like you. I'll take my money elsewhere
  • CronozNL
    2869 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Arijit wrote: »
    Maybe you wouldn't, but when I put 10k into app purchases a month, I can do things you can't. Including getting my money back if I'm not satisfied.

    I don't think you have put 10k in this game. You and me are in same server, you are just 2 levels above me and I have spent 20$ lol. And you get beaten everyday lol, even with your precious poe. If you spent that much money you never need poe. Poe is poor man's way to beat whales with fotp, leia, Rey

    My 2k is worth 200 times your 20$. But by all means, continue. Post away donkey, and make people like me not want to play games with people like you. I'll take my money elsewhere

    Loooool calling him a donkey and saying 20 goes 200 times in 2000 riiiiiiight.
    2000/20 = ? Try again and don't edit before i hit reply on this!!
    If you are this bad in math I doubt you will have that much money to spend.
    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    d3gauss wrote: »
    Smithie wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe to a state he is unusable in the Arena, who would I contact to get a refund of the Force Awakens pack and all the crystals I spent to get him to 7*.

    Yes I use him yes he is good but he can be countered by QGJ and still has above average health.

    If your going to keep Nerfing Poe I want Sid Lumi Tie Pilot Leia nerfed too!

    I'll get on the refund train if they nerf Poe more.

    This is like walking through a hole in a fence, building a house, then asking for compensation when someone comes and closes the hole and asks you to leave.

    You had to freaking know poe was too powerful, there were a million posts on the forums about it and he is over represented in game. You chose to just ignore all of those signs and continue on your merry way. I don't feel sorry for you at all, and you are kidding yourself further if you think they stop balancing him here.

    Not all all. I built that house, with money. I didn't choose what was given to me. But I certainly have a reasonable expectation that it was given to me for a reason. Therefore I relied on that.

    I have a better analogy.
    You got a char in a videogsme. The char got balanced because it was too powerful. It happens all the time, in all the videogames that are worth a ****. Yes, everytime that something is balanced because it is overperforming, those who were benefiting of it's brokeness cry. Sometimes they even threat to leave the game. It is not like it is the first time it happens, you know.
  • Arijit wrote: »
    Maybe you wouldn't, but when I put 10k into app purchases a month, I can do things you can't. Including getting my money back if I'm not satisfied.

    I don't think you have put 10k in this game. You and me are in same server, you are just 2 levels above me and I have spent 20$ lol. And you get beaten everyday lol, even with your precious poe. If you spent that much money you never need poe. Poe is poor man's way to beat whales with fotp, leia, Rey

    My 2k is worth 200 times your 20$. But by all means, continue. Post away donkey, and make people like me not want to play games with people like you. I'll take my money elsewhere

    Mr. 10k, that was pathetic!
  • Cheer up guys. Chrono, I noticed that too. 1000% higher spending is still a lot more?
    Triqui wrote: »
    d3gauss wrote: »
    Smithie wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe to a state he is unusable in the Arena, who would I contact to get a refund of the Force Awakens pack and all the crystals I spent to get him to 7*.

    Yes I use him yes he is good but he can be countered by QGJ and still has above average health.

    If your going to keep Nerfing Poe I want Sid Lumi Tie Pilot Leia nerfed too!

    I'll get on the refund train if they nerf Poe more.

    This is like walking through a hole in a fence, building a house, then asking for compensation when someone comes and closes the hole and asks you to leave.

    You had to freaking know poe was too powerful, there were a million posts on the forums about it and he is over represented in game. You chose to just ignore all of those signs and continue on your merry way. I don't feel sorry for you at all, and you are kidding yourself further if you think they stop balancing him here.

    Not all all. I built that house, with money. I didn't choose what was given to me. But I certainly have a reasonable expectation that it was given to me for a reason. Therefore I relied on that.

    I have a better analogy.
    You got a char in a videogsme. The char got balanced because it was too powerful. It happens all the time, in all the videogames that are worth a ****. Yes, everytime that something is balanced because it is overperforming, those who were benefiting of it's brokeness cry. Sometimes they even threat to leave the game. It is not like it is the first time it happens, you know.

    You are forgetting 200 shards (price is 50 Crystals each) and abot 600 pieces of gear who each may need 6 to 12 Energy x 3 times (drop rate).

  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    I find it funny that after using strawmans, ad hominems and red herrings, the argument to defend Poe current status is now argumentum ad baculum. "If they nerf the reason why I'm top 5 instead of top 50, I'll demand a refund".
    How does demanding a refund shows that Poe is or is not balanced? Why does (some) people try to move the discussion away from Poe's ststus as a balanced or unbalanced character? In all fairness, a few people have tried to argument that. However, those arguments are scarce, compared to the threats to refund, the ad hominems against " nerf bunnies" and the calls to keep him as is "because I invested", none of which tell us anything about Poe's skill.

    So what if we discuss just this:
    Is it balanced to have a skill that allow you to have 5 turns in a row before your oponent in a turn based game? Because that's what matters. I'm open to hear why that is a good thing, honestly.
  • Arijit wrote: »
    Maybe you wouldn't, but when I put 10k into app purchases a month, I can do things you can't. Including getting my money back if I'm not satisfied.

    I don't think you have put 10k in this game. You and me are in same server, you are just 2 levels above me and I have spent 20$ lol. And you get beaten everyday lol, even with your precious poe. If you spent that much money you never need poe. Poe is poor man's way to beat whales with fotp, leia, Rey

    My 2k is worth 200 times your 20$. But by all means, continue. Post away donkey, and make people like me not want to play games with people like you. I'll take my money elsewhere

    Mr. 10k, that was pathetic!

    My 2k is worth significantly more then your few times 20$.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    Cheer up guys. Chrono, I noticed that too. 1000% higher spending is still a lot more?
    Triqui wrote: »
    d3gauss wrote: »
    Smithie wrote: »
    If you nerf Poe to a state he is unusable in the Arena, who would I contact to get a refund of the Force Awakens pack and all the crystals I spent to get him to 7*.

    Yes I use him yes he is good but he can be countered by QGJ and still has above average health.

    If your going to keep Nerfing Poe I want Sid Lumi Tie Pilot Leia nerfed too!

    I'll get on the refund train if they nerf Poe more.

    This is like walking through a hole in a fence, building a house, then asking for compensation when someone comes and closes the hole and asks you to leave.

    You had to freaking know poe was too powerful, there were a million posts on the forums about it and he is over represented in game. You chose to just ignore all of those signs and continue on your merry way. I don't feel sorry for you at all, and you are kidding yourself further if you think they stop balancing him here.

    Not all all. I built that house, with money. I didn't choose what was given to me. But I certainly have a reasonable expectation that it was given to me for a reason. Therefore I relied on that.

    I have a better analogy.
    You got a char in a videogsme. The char got balanced because it was too powerful. It happens all the time, in all the videogames that are worth a ****. Yes, everytime that something is balanced because it is overperforming, those who were benefiting of it's brokeness cry. Sometimes they even threat to leave the game. It is not like it is the first time it happens, you know.

    You are forgetting 200 shards (price is 50 Crystals each) and abot 600 pieces of gear who each may need 6 to 12 Energy x 3 times (drop rate).

    I'm not forgetting anything. You got stuff in a videogame, that stuff got balanced. It happens ALL THE TIME in Videogames. If you want, I can go to, say, Blizzard, and post here all the balancing patches to skills, classes, units and items since Diablo 3, Starcrsft 2 and World of Warcraft launched. It is going to be s few hundred pages, tho. Can do the same with other companies if you preffer.
  • Arijit wrote: »
    Maybe you wouldn't, but when I put 10k into app purchases a month, I can do things you can't. Including getting my money back if I'm not satisfied.

    I don't think you have put 10k in this game. You and me are in same server, you are just 2 levels above me and I have spent 20$ lol. And you get beaten everyday lol, even with your precious poe. If you spent that much money you never need poe. Poe is poor man's way to beat whales with fotp, leia, Rey

    My 2k is worth 200 times your 20$. But by all means, continue. Post away donkey, and make people like me not want to play games with people like you. I'll take my money elsewhere

    Mr. 10k, that was pathetic!

    My 2k is worth significantly more then your few times 20$.

    Don't even go there. You just got called out by a player on your server who made the lie of you spending 10k odd. You don't know how much I can or do spend. Just know this, when I spend, I don't need to shout out lies about it nor do I run around asking for refunds after enjoying the purchase. Nor do I make a donkey out of myself by publicly being caught out as a big mouth, uncouth liar! You pathetic excuse for a whale...
  • Triqui wrote: »
    Poe current status is now argumentum ad baculum.

    It's not a consensus. Not even an argument. It is a consequence of overnerfing and Barris scars are looming still.

    My opinion is undonthe current nerf and make turn meter resistable to add color and variety for the game. But for others this may be a game killer (as opposed to a killer game). Yet for others it may be nothing.

    If defense stats are tuned or HP increased globally 10%-15% nothing needs to be nerfed actually.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Triqui wrote: »
    Poe current status is now argumentum ad baculum.

    It's not a consensus. Not even an argument. It is a consequence of overnerfing and Barris scars are looming still.

    My opinion is undonthe current nerf and make turn meter resistable to add color and variety for the game. But for others this may be a game killer (as opposed to a killer game). Yet for others it may be nothing.

    If defense stats are tuned or HP increased globally 10%-15% nothing needs to be nerfed actually.

    I'm fine with it not being s consensus. Some people defending current status Poe have expressed some good arguments about him, yourself included. Among those:

    1) problem is not Poe, it's the team of turn 7 navy seals that obliterate things in 1 hit.

    2) Poe actually adds viability to toons that wouldn't be played otherwise (such as slower droids)

    3) Poe is the only viable tank, ir close to (han is good enough, just worse)

    4) Poe is farmable and closes the gap with P2W.

    I'm sure I forgot others. Some are more convincing, others are less. Discussing about those, or the Pro-nerf counterparts (like my objection to open the door to first turn combo, or many other ecpressed here) IS helpful.


    But threats to rage quit and refund do not address st all if Poe is or isnt balanced.it doesnt matter if it is people who threat to refund if Poe is touched, or threat to refund if Poe isn't touched. It is childish, and sounds like those kids that threat to stop breathing if they have to eat soup for dinner.

    So let's go back to discuss Poe and his balanced or unbslanced status, please
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    Btw, turn meter steal being resistable sounds as a good incremental step, and is something that it is not actually targeted ST Poe, as it would affect all TM stealing units. I like that as a possible next step IF the devs find data that shows Poe is overperforming. Which is something people sometimes forget: devs have not said they will or won't nerf Poe more. They have said they will monitor the data, and act IF the data shows he is OP
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