Question regarding the new added/reworked toons (Phoenix, Pao and Bodhi, Gar and ISC, Troopers)

Most of us know/ believe that the new toons can't cut it in the high arena, especially against Zaul or Chaze. My question, somewhat a spin off of the IG88isboss thread, is :

Can the new/reworked toons, or combinations of them. can at least be a viable alternative for new/ undeveloped players to the old rebel meta (Lando, Wiggs, Han and a 5th one, usually Boba) that is untouched for about 10 months ? Or this toons were actually stillborn?

Replies

  • Woodroward
    3660 posts Member
    It's more like 4 months that it is untouched. At 3 1/2 months the first Zaul appeared on my shard. now at 4 1/2 months my leaderboard is dominated by Rex Nihilus and Zaul.
  • Crinsom
    28 posts Member
    I personally think the period before the zaul meta came around was the best. Had rebels, empire, droids, everything felt like you had sort of an even fight somehow if you had mods ofc.

    Then zaul crept in and instantly empire was almost garbage tier, rebels lost their damage advantage, droids pretty much went extinct.

    Rex is always the counter to high debuff/high crit metas, zaul just happens to do both those things.

    Then nihilus came with his no condition guaranteed kill on cd, which pretty much solidified not a zaul/rex meta, but a "protect the nihilus" meta. Which is what we're currently experiencing. Every teams current goal is to keep nihilus alive for as long as possible to stab people to death.
  • Woodroward wrote: »
    It's more like 4 months that it is untouched. At 3 1/2 months the first Zaul appeared on my shard. now at 4 1/2 months my leaderboard is dominated by Rex Nihilus and Zaul.

    I was strictly refering at low arena not high arena, basically new shards or older shards outside top 200-500, where people don't have accses or the resources to get the premium toons (Shoretrooper, Baze) or farm for zetas.
  • Startomsto
    926 posts Member
    Maul is not hard to farm... many other siths are also easy farm. But you do need 1 zeta, unless your lead is ep
  • leef
    13150 posts Member
    Woodroward wrote: »
    It's more like 4 months that it is untouched. At 3 1/2 months the first Zaul appeared on my shard. now at 4 1/2 months my leaderboard is dominated by Rex Nihilus and Zaul.

    I was strictly refering at low arena not high arena, basically new shards or older shards outside top 200-500, where people don't have accses or the resources to get the premium toons (Shoretrooper, Baze) or farm for zetas.

    no zeta's and no baze or shore vs chaze (baze) and zaul (zeta). I think you just awnsered your own question.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Startomsto wrote: »
    Maul is not hard to farm... many other siths are also easy farm. But you do need 1 zeta, unless your lead is ep

    And for that zeta you must be at least level 78 ( realistically close to 85), while having good ships with good pilots, which implies you are at least somewhat developed.
  • lol...
    After the "balanced meta" phase of R1, empire, Zader, EP lead, zQGJ, zKylo etc. came the zMaul lead meta. Then came the "protect-the-nihilus" triple cleanse meta and Rex countermeta.
  • sjkerhfgdjhd
    1009 posts Member
    I can see people who got a free Gar Saxon using him as an empire lead at lower levels, but he can't currently be starred up, and unless he is given a bit easier farm than most of the new toons he will soon be completely unavailable at all down there. Veers and the troopers may be viable at lower levels also, but other than that the only new or recently reworked toon available at the same levels where pre R1 rebels are still popular is Bodhi Rook, and he doesn't seem much good for anything.

    I think most strategic people deviating from the classic rebels+1 teams at lower tiers are going to be going for either Cassian+K2SO, or the reworked Sith, not anything newer.
  • danflorian1984
    986 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Ok, so to make sure the thread doesn' t evolve in something else let me rephrase my question.

    Since the new toons aren't viable on old shards, can they at least be viable on newer shards where the old rebels are still the meta?
  • I can see people who got a free Gar Saxon using him as an empire lead at lower levels, but he can't currently be starred up, and unless he is given a bit easier farm than most of the new toons he will soon be completely unavailable at all down there. Veers and the troopers may be viable at lower levels also, but other than that the only new or recently reworked toon available at the same levels where pre R1 rebels are still popular is Bodhi Rook, and he doesn't seem much good for anything.

    I think most strategic people deviating from the classic rebels+1 teams at lower tiers are going to be going for either Cassian+K2SO, or the reworked Sith, not anything newer.

    Thanks for your response, so your conclussion is maybe but probably not, no?
  • Woodroward
    3660 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Once the reworks for the troopers are put into play, they may indeed by viable at end arena. They're kind of like Phoenix in a way, but not tied to a particular leader ability which makes them even better. Not that Phoenix are bad.

    They're certainly viable at lower levels and feature a couple of easy farms.
  • Woodroward wrote: »
    Once the reworks for the troopers are put into play, they may indeed by viable at end arena. They're kind of like Phoenix in a way, but not tied to a particular leader ability which makes them even better. Not that Phoenix are bad.

    They're certainly viable at lower levels and feature a couple of easy farms.

    So you think that a team featuring Veers Snow Magma and Storm (aka the farmable troopers by new players) + Vader , EP or TFP can compete against Lando Wiggs Han + Boba, AA or Leia ? Or can any of the 6 Phoenix caracters compete against the same toons?
  • sjkerhfgdjhd
    1009 posts Member
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Once the reworks for the troopers are put into play, they may indeed by viable at end arena. They're kind of like Phoenix in a way, but not tied to a particular leader ability which makes them even better. Not that Phoenix are bad.

    They're certainly viable at lower levels and feature a couple of easy farms.

    So you think that a team featuring Veers Snow Magma and Storm (aka the farmable troopers by new players) + Vader , EP or TFP can compete against Lando Wiggs Han + Boba, AA or Leia ? Or can any of the 6 Phoenix caracters compete against the same toons?

    I think Phoenix are about equivalent to the best pre R1 rebel teams, but we don't know where they will be available. Probably at least some of the better toons from that squad will go onto higher level cantina nodes, making them unusable at any point.

    Having just had a better look at the Imperial Trooper update I think it offers a valid option to building a rebel team off the bat. Snowtrooper and Stormtrooper seem to have been built specifically as the empire answer to Lando and ST Han.
  • Woodroward
    3660 posts Member
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Once the reworks for the troopers are put into play, they may indeed by viable at end arena. They're kind of like Phoenix in a way, but not tied to a particular leader ability which makes them even better. Not that Phoenix are bad.

    They're certainly viable at lower levels and feature a couple of easy farms.

    So you think that a team featuring Veers Snow Magma and Storm (aka the farmable troopers by new players) + Vader , EP or TFP can compete against Lando Wiggs Han + Boba, AA or Leia ? Or can any of the 6 Phoenix caracters compete against the same toons?

    I think the Phoenix could easily compete with the Wiggandoba team while leveling... if Hera ends farmable at a lower level.

    I'm not sure if I'd exactly call Veers and Snowtrooper farmable at lower levels being hard mode only and late stage cantina battle respectively (I wouldn't farm snowtrooper out of the guild store early on personally), but Magamtrooper and Stormtrooper got good enough updates to make them really viable in an empire team and will still buff each other. I think Palpatine, Vader & TFP along with those two would be quite deadly. Now you have to have the rebel team to get palp, so that's another story.

  • sjkerhfgdjhd
    1009 posts Member
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Once the reworks for the troopers are put into play, they may indeed by viable at end arena. They're kind of like Phoenix in a way, but not tied to a particular leader ability which makes them even better. Not that Phoenix are bad.

    They're certainly viable at lower levels and feature a couple of easy farms.

    So you think that a team featuring Veers Snow Magma and Storm (aka the farmable troopers by new players) + Vader , EP or TFP can compete against Lando Wiggs Han + Boba, AA or Leia ? Or can any of the 6 Phoenix caracters compete against the same toons?

    I think the Phoenix could easily compete with the Wiggandoba team while leveling... if Hera ends farmable at a lower level.

    I'm not sure if I'd exactly call Veers and Snowtrooper farmable at lower levels being hard mode only and late stage cantina battle respectively (I wouldn't farm snowtrooper out of the guild store early on personally), but Magamtrooper and Stormtrooper got good enough updates to make them really viable in an empire team and will still buff each other. I think Palpatine, Vader & TFP along with those two would be quite deadly. Now you have to have the rebel team to get palp, so that's another story.

    Snowtrooper is handed out free to beginning players, and is also available in the guild store. He is also a fairly common drop from bronziums. Veers is tougher, but I also got his unlock and a number of shards from bronziums. I think trying to do an early empire team will be tougher than just farming rebels, but doable.
  • What makes me reticent about the troopers is that their terrible speed wasn't addressed, 20 speed from Veers is nothing compared with rebels under Lando, or even under Wedge lead. Also until level 78, when TFP gets his omega on his aoe, every fight against rebels will start 4 against 5, and even after that for every 2 hits that Biggs receive from anyone in the team another toon will die, at least until Wedge is dead.But if they somehow really are viable at least the toons will actually have their niche in the game.

    Phoenix in the event was good against old rebels, but they were 6 against 5, i don't know 5 against 5 how good they will be. Just like in the case of imperial troopers maybe they will have their place in the game, but i doubt it.

    Gar Saxon and ISC I can only see in a Rex team or Chaze team, but there are better options for players who own those toons, and lower players can't get them, so i fail to see their purpose.

    Bodhi to me can really augment rebel teams at lower levels, the problem is that rebels was actually the only one who didn't need to be augmented. so once again i can't see the purpose behind it.

    Pao intrigues me because he seems to be to weak on paper to even try him, so maybe , to quote AA, "It's a trap". Or , more probably, he really is that weak.
  • leef wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    It's more like 4 months that it is untouched. At 3 1/2 months the first Zaul appeared on my shard. now at 4 1/2 months my leaderboard is dominated by Rex Nihilus and Zaul.

    I was strictly refering at low arena not high arena, basically new shards or older shards outside top 200-500, where people don't have accses or the resources to get the premium toons (Shoretrooper, Baze) or farm for zetas.

    no zeta's and no baze or shore vs chaze (baze) and zaul (zeta). I think you just awnsered your own question.

    You think end game meta is stale at the moment? I'm actually HAPPY when I see rex leads and zmaul teams appearing in my top 10 now because it means the god awful "absolutely every team in the top 100 is wiggando/sthan/boba" meta that is the meta in every single shard that doesn't have baze, shore and zmaul. It's been exactly the same meta for everyone under zeta level since wiggs first became meta because there are zero lower level farm teams that can beat them
  • Carbonari
    676 posts Member
    Sabine and Ezra will both find homes on high-end arena teams once they are readily available.
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