Chaze, a reasonable look at the most overtuned duo in game.

Replies

  • I hate chaze but nerf never is the answer.
  • Georgemi6
    1235 posts Member
    I think another problem is that chaze is not only op, but that they're also nothing like they are in rogue one. It would make more sense if chirrut had foresight and evasion rather than rediculous heal over time and an unnecessary cleanse. Baze should be a high damage tank without a taunt, because seriously he doesn't do anything but shoot a bunch of storm troopers. He also doesn't need his dispel on his aoe.

    Basically, for chirrut, get rid of As the force wills and resolute endurance, and anything else associated with heal over time in his kit. Then, give him a new unique "I'm one with the force, the force is with me" cuz ya know, he says that a lot in the movie. This unique would give him extra evasion and maybe turn meter when he evades.
    His basic could have a % chance for him to gain forsite, or something.

    For baze, it's much simpler. Completely get rid of "for jedha" and remove the dispel on his 1st special. Everything else is fine, maybe just up his damage and give him counter chance.
  • Georgemi6 wrote: »
    For baze, it's much simpler. Completely get rid of "for jedha" and remove the dispel on his 1st special. Everything else is fine, maybe just up his damage and give him counter chance.

    His dispels are easily countered with GK (especially), Rex, Chirrut (yes lol), now R2, and others.

    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Gamorrean
    2340 posts Member
    Chirrut should be classified a healer instead of attacker and have a much less damage output.. Why didn't the devs make him a healer in the first place?
  • The argument that because they have a counter and can be beat does not negate the fact they are way over-powered and not balanced compared to other strong toons.

    They are a self contained team that does everything which normally takes 4-5 toons so the other 3 slots have incredible freedom.

    Look at how diverse HAAT phases are and no one come close to their utility as a whole.

    Arena would be much better without the SA+20% zaul lead bonus (one or the other but both is ridiculous and I run it) and Chaze in their current form.
  • Gamorrean wrote: »
    Chirrut should be classified a healer instead of attacker and have a much less damage output.. Why didn't the devs make him a healer in the first place?

    Officially, by tag, he's not, just like LU. But here's the weird thing: LU does heal, Barriss equalizes and heals, but Chirrut just equalizes. The whole labeling scheme is just odd.

    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Zaul, B2, Boba, DN all counters.

    Chaze isn't that great at the high end of mature shards.

    This is absurdly incorrect. If your shard is like this, look at the meta report, 50% of the #1 arena teams use Chaze.
  • Does chaze have counters? Sure, geo spy and boba can punish them for the buffs they throw down

    Can they be beat? Sure

    Are they still significantly stronger than most other characters and could use a nerf? Absolutely. Think about what you need to build a good team. You need:

    A dispeller
    A taunter
    A damage dealer
    A healer
    A cleanser
    Tenacity up
    A stunner/controller

    Only thing these two don't provide to a team is a the last point. The devs gave them too many skills, which I think hurts creativity in this game because you can pretty much build any team you want to around them.

    I run a double zeta fully maxed Jedi squad (without Kenobi) and can barely hang on in the top 50. Do you know who else I've seen that never leaves the top 50? A single zeta rogue one team with a gear 8 chirrut and cassian...

  • slickdealer
    1376 posts Member
    Kenobi is in half of all #1 teams,
    Zaul, B2, Boba, DN all counters.

    Chaze isn't that great at the high end of mature shards.

    This is absurdly incorrect. If your shard is like this, look at the meta report, 50% of the #1 arena teams use Chaze.

    Look again, it is under 50%.

    GK is about 50% and DN is over 75%.

    DN is much more OP than Chaze. The numbers show it.
  • BrtStlnd
    1094 posts Member
    Wholf wrote: »
    They are op because the fundamental key of balance is 'jack of trades, master of none. Master of a trade - easy to counter.'

    They don't obey the rules and are masters of all. They tank, they heal, they buff they rebuff they deal huge damage and so on and so fourth.

    This is all correct. They do literally everything that characters are capable of doing in this game, and in most cases they do it better than characters that specialize in that ability.

    They hit hard, cleanse, counter, give tenacity up, heal, dispel, debuff etc. I mean name it and they're the best at whatever you name, more or less... with the exception of debuffing. Sith are better at that.
  • Kenobi is in half of all #1 teams,
    Zaul, B2, Boba, DN all counters.

    Chaze isn't that great at the high end of mature shards.

    This is absurdly incorrect. If your shard is like this, look at the meta report, 50% of the #1 arena teams use Chaze.

    Look again, it is under 50%.

    GK is about 50% and DN is over 75%.

    DN is much more OP than Chaze. The numbers show it.

    GK and DN we get for free, Baze not.
  • BrtStlnd
    1094 posts Member
    Buff immunity does not work against them. Chirrut cleanses that asap. I know, I had a tfp that was 279 speed and his opening aoe was useless. The next turn it got cleansed.
    RJ__Brando wrote: »
    Buff immunity and heal immunity pair with an aoe cleanse is usually needed to easily take down a good chaze lineup.


  • slickdealer
    1376 posts Member
    BrtStlnd wrote: »
    Buff immunity does not work against them. Chirrut cleanses that asap. I know, I had a tfp that was 279 speed and his opening aoe was useless. The next turn it got cleansed.
    RJ__Brando wrote: »
    Buff immunity and heal immunity pair with an aoe cleanse is usually needed to easily take down a good chaze lineup.


    It is on a long cooldown. Use buff immunity after he uses it.

  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    OP - my best advice is to just seek input on what beats them and don't fight for a nerf.
    I already have a team to beat them, daily. Still overtuned.
    1. Nerf won't happen - you're on a pointless quest
    Disagree, but sure.
    2. There's NO BETTER feeling in one of these games than putting a team together that just curb stomps some "OP" build like Chaze. Take advice from others. Do some research - and go kill you some Chaze :)
    Already have a team that does that.

    I'll requote this post since my opposing posters seem to purposely refuse to engage it.
    Do you think it'll be fair (just for debate's sake) if a character can 1 shot all squad members and it'll be fine because you invest into it?

    Exaggerated example but the point stands.

    By admitting these things...you're blowing up your own argument that they need nerfed. What does overtuned mean exactly? SOMETHING has to be the best in the game - you can't nerf everything to have the same stats of 1. They aren't some ridiculous outlier that is unbeatable - why nerf something just because it's the best?
    Because it's overtuned. Refer to the OP to see all the points.
    You've done a good job showing they are very strong - we all agree. Yet you also state they are beatable and you do so daily. How is your own squad not in need of a nerf and overtuned if they can whip Chaze daily?
    Refer to the OP. They have too much of everything and their payoff for their ease of play is imba.
    You still have not articulated why they need a nerf
    I have, you're just refusing to see my points (or trying to convert me?)

    Still waiting on the counter post for my LSD / S8 argument.

    Take your time.

    Help me out here, if you don't mind. I don't recall seeing that (overlooked, no doubt).
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/1055843/#Comment_1055843
  • Theophany
    865 posts Member
    Why does baze still counter even after chirruts death when redemption isn't active?
    Some of the brightest ideas are the hardest to see
  • slickdealer
    1376 posts Member
    Theophany wrote: »
    Why does baze still counter even after chirruts death when redemption isn't active?

    Because his ability doesn't have a "while alive" clause like R2.
  • BrtStlnd
    1094 posts Member
    BrtStlnd wrote: »
    Buff immunity does not work against them. Chirrut cleanses that asap. I know, I had a tfp that was 279 speed and his opening aoe was useless. The next turn it got cleansed.
    RJ__Brando wrote: »
    Buff immunity and heal immunity pair with an aoe cleanse is usually needed to easily take down a good chaze lineup.


    It is on a long cooldown. Use buff immunity after he uses it.

    Oh you mean use if after he gives everyone tenacity up. WHAT A GREAT IDEA.
  • Theophany
    865 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    6oDYR4q.jpg
    When Wedge Antilles is killed this unique is no longer active on Biggs

    BMM7xVa.jpg
    So why does this remain active on baze?
    Post edited by Theophany on
    Some of the brightest ideas are the hardest to see
  • Theophany
    865 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Theophany wrote: »
    Why does baze still counter even after chirruts death when redemption isn't active?

    Because his ability doesn't have a "while alive" clause like R2.

    Neither does the ability between wedge and Biggs, but it was updated and fixed accordingly

    Some of the brightest ideas are the hardest to see
  • Mullato
    2582 posts Member
    Jedi #1.
  • Theophany
    865 posts Member
    Chaze is bugged and will be fixed no different than wiggs
    Some of the brightest ideas are the hardest to see
  • Theophany wrote: »
    Chaze is bugged and will be fixed no different than wiggs

    What are the bugs you speak of? :D

    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Still waiting on the counter post for my LSD / S8 argument.

    Take your time.

    Help me out here, if you don't mind. I don't recall seeing that (overlooked, no doubt).
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/1055843/#Comment_1055843

    Ahh! I actually never played WoW. I know, I missed out on so much of games during those days, sadly. :/ I was a huge console gamer growing up, but never grew into the PC gaming.

    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Chaze is old news and, honestly, usually not that hard to deal with...
  • I don't run the Chaze pair, and have never had a problem beating teams with chaze. So from my point of view, nothing from OP thread has any need for a nerf, tuning down an overturned toon, or what have you.

    But, I don't care really. Go ahead and nerf chaze, nerf everything except my comp, so nerf Rex, nerf chaze, nerf Vader, nerf maul, nerf nerf nihilus. Won't hurt me or my crystal income on a mature Nov '15 shard. Heck, it'll make my crystal income even easier.

    Changing the rules mid stream won't hurt me at all. So go for it, you have my blessing.
    what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
  • Theophany
    865 posts Member
    Theophany wrote: »
    Chaze is bugged and will be fixed no different than wiggs

    What are the bugs you speak of? :D

    Scroll up I just posted 2 pictures of two different unique abilities one being wedge and the other chirruts.

    Wedges ability was fixed and does not apply to Biggs when wedge is killed, while chirruts ability still applies to baze after death.
    Some of the brightest ideas are the hardest to see
  • dough
    641 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    "destroys them so easily, it's comical?" what a ridiculously hyperbolic statement this is, seriously, stuff a sock in it.
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Their 'easy payoff' is also their weakness. More buffs on them mean bigger hits for Boba. I 40-70k crits are a common thing for me when I attack them.

    Also WAY before I got Kenobi I was wrecking them with STHan. I purposely attacked Baze over and over. He countered with his love taps, and I took 5 turns before the other team did much of anything.

    The thing is that there are other toons on their level that beat them easily. I beat them easily, and don't use Chaze to do it. I just want to see more faction passes to bring more toons to an equal level.

    You mentioned GSpy. His 'gimmick' is a direct counter that does a devastating amount of damage to them more so than to other toons. But GSpy doesn't have enough other utility, or a faction with good enough synergy for it to be worth it to farm him. So just strengthen synergy for Geonosians, and/or Seperatists. Now you have another option to beat them.

    Boba is fantastic, and destroys them so easily it's comical. But needs a Bounty Hunter faction pass to accentuate what he does, and give us a reason to run the other HORRIBLE BH toons with him.

    In short, they aren't breaking the game. They can be beaten easily now. Playing with other toons of equal power is fun. We just need more options of equal power toons with targeted abilities that are way stronger against them that against other teams/toons but have their own weaknesses to be exploited by still other toons. And faction passes to get most everyone to a similar level is the stated plan of the devs. I'd get used to that idea.

  • Theophany
    865 posts Member
    6oDYR4q.jpg
    When Wedge Antilles is killed this unique is no longer active on Biggs

    BMM7xVa.jpg
    So why does this remain active on baze?

    One more time for you @SnakesOnAPlane
    Some of the brightest ideas are the hardest to see
  • xReDeMpx
    1690 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Wholf wrote: »
    They are op because the fundamental key of balance is 'jack of trades, master of none. Master of a trade - easy to counter.'

    They don't obey the rules and are masters of all. They tank, they heal, they buff they rebuff they deal huge damage and so on and so fourth.

    Thank you for saying that in a way some people finally understand.

    I said this in many threads about chaze including this one about them being the jack of all trades and doing the job better than specialized toons who have that specific purpose
  • Darlex11
    235 posts Member
    sL_Spinoza wrote: »
    I hate chaze but nerf never is the answer.

    I challenge you to make a list of all the effects/abilities that Chirrut and Baze can do between the two of them. Then make a list matching up the minimum number of OTHER characters in the game that can do those same abilities. The list I made came up to about 13 characters. It took me 13 characters to MATCH the abilities of Chaze.

    Now think of that. How many characters should it take to match their overall abilities output? For a duo of two side character in a movie? I'd be happy if they just narrowed that list of abilites down to 6 or 7 other characters mashed into 2 honestly. Or let them keep all of those abilities/effects but increase the cooldowns/tone down the impact of each since they can do so many things.

    My main problem with Chaze as a whole is that there isn't a decision to be made about using them. You just choose to use them because they are ALWAYS the better option (unless you run Sith). There aren't 2 characters that you could put in place of Chaze that would be better in any way, shape, or form. They are always the best choice irregardless of what you need for those 2 slots, cuz they can day any/everything.
Sign In or Register to comment.