Speed Changes and Poe Dameron

Replies

  • Nonemo
    1656 posts Member
    Nonemo wrote: »
    vangoh wrote: »
    You do realize that they could just release patch notes after the patch. There is no pleasing this community. No matter what CG does there will be 100 I'm calling my credit card company posts.

    You do realize they didn't do that, right? They posted changes coming in and did something else (false and misleading information)? Jeez, do you even know what's actually going on?

    Devs stated way back that the changes to tenacity were preliminary and that they were monitoring the situation. Read back. This means that more changes could reasonably be expected to come. There's nothing misleading about this course of actions imo.

    That also said that the possible changes would be implemented after observation of the game after the patch rolled out, which was untrue.

    @Nonemo, I suggest you read again.

    Doesn't change the fact that changes were to be expected, sooner or later.

    This isn't even a heavy nerf. The big part is the change in how speed works. Which changes everything for ALL characters. Can't use that as an argument when it comes to Poe specifically. -1 speed on Poe is negligible. He gained some ATK and lost some HP. Well boo hoo.
  • Azraelrulez
    1908 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Nonemo wrote: »
    Nonemo wrote: »
    vangoh wrote: »
    You do realize that they could just release patch notes after the patch. There is no pleasing this community. No matter what CG does there will be 100 I'm calling my credit card company posts.

    You do realize they didn't do that, right? They posted changes coming in and did something else (false and misleading information)? Jeez, do you even know what's actually going on?

    Devs stated way back that the changes to tenacity were preliminary and that they were monitoring the situation. Read back. This means that more changes could reasonably be expected to come. There's nothing misleading about this course of actions imo.

    That also said that the possible changes would be implemented after observation of the game after the patch rolled out, which was untrue.

    @Nonemo, I suggest you read again.

    Doesn't change the fact that changes were to be expected, sooner or later.

    This isn't even a heavy nerf. The big part is the change in how speed works. Which changes everything for ALL characters. Can't use that as an argument when it comes to Poe specifically. -1 speed on Poe is negligible. He gained some ATK and lost some HP. Well boo hoo.

    Doesn't change the fact that people have a right to be aggrieved.

    Must be nice to be you. Argue on a point and smoothly change to another when your point is beeped. Sales?

    Edit: I'm out of here. Both sides, please continue your rants and call the other's rant whining. Whine, whine, whine. For beep's sake, where are the heroes, :lol:?
  • Nonemo
    1656 posts Member
    Nonemo wrote: »
    Nonemo wrote: »
    vangoh wrote: »
    You do realize that they could just release patch notes after the patch. There is no pleasing this community. No matter what CG does there will be 100 I'm calling my credit card company posts.

    You do realize they didn't do that, right? They posted changes coming in and did something else (false and misleading information)? Jeez, do you even know what's actually going on?

    Devs stated way back that the changes to tenacity were preliminary and that they were monitoring the situation. Read back. This means that more changes could reasonably be expected to come. There's nothing misleading about this course of actions imo.

    That also said that the possible changes would be implemented after observation of the game after the patch rolled out, which was untrue.

    @Nonemo, I suggest you read again.

    Doesn't change the fact that changes were to be expected, sooner or later.

    This isn't even a heavy nerf. The big part is the change in how speed works. Which changes everything for ALL characters. Can't use that as an argument when it comes to Poe specifically. -1 speed on Poe is negligible. He gained some ATK and lost some HP. Well boo hoo.

    Doesn't change the fact that people have a right to be aggrieved.

    Must be nice to be you. Argue on a point and smoothly change to another when your point is beeped. Sales?

    People always have the right to be aggravated. Doesn't mean they're in the right.

    It's not too nice to be me. I burned out at my job as successful editor-in-chief nine months ago. Now I play silly app games and argue with strangers online. Well... Since you asked.
  • Wasted resources. I want a refund.
    Stop nerfing. Buff others. Nerf poe speed at lvl 70+, so at least we used our resources correctly for a lvl 70 character
  • obiwan1011 wrote: »
    He can now be stun, debuffed, or one shot by a QGJ assist. It's easier to move a FOTP through an assist from GS, QGJ and the ither assisters now faster than Poe, that using a tank to defend a squishy char.

    1. So you want that old Poe back who laughed at any negative effect thrown at him (and healing himself during the process as he resisted them almost every time) and allowed your team to go first. I get it

    Sorry but we discussed many alternative nerfs I was ok with, if after today's release Poe was still causing problems. We had more than 20 pages of this for you to come say this.
    obiwan1011 wrote: »

    2. I thought I told you he is still faster than any taunter, still has the highest tenacity and has higher health than Han who is even more prone to stuns and one shot kills

    This is not even close to being relevant. What Poe does or Han does is their own businesss. There are many many attackers in the game, and many healers, and some of them are increadibly good and some bad, to a much larger extent that you imply here.
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Nerfed:
    - Speed
    - HP
    - Time meter (due to speed mechanic, huge effect)
    - Expose
    - Tenacity
    - Strength
    - Special Damage
    - Intelligence

    Yet you choose to ignore (no matter how insignificant),

    •+15 Agility
    •+5% Health Steal
    •+31 Physical Damage
    •+9 Armor
    •+6 Physical Critical Rating
    Not just insignificant but worst than that, meaningless. Completely. Take 444 HP and add Life Steal for a Tank that has Taunted for two turns and was already squishy? These added stats are INSULTING. Life steal...like Poe lasts more than two shots...especially after nerf, he is a one shot affair.
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    The time meter removal is now useless except versus Ventress and the Uber slow tanks and even the questionable as those chars go last anyway.

    If his TM removal is useless, then I guess Phasma's slow down AOE is even more useless since she is slower and it is resistible.

    Obi please, I get you love Poe dead and destroyed. Just don't keep posting things that are not. A slow will act for more than one turn, so it's like a turn meter stealing function. Let me use an example:

    Rey has +1 speed vs Poe now. (And like 17 others can go first via Speed leadership too but lets use Rey to make it more clear).

    She hits Poe. Now Poe is 80% dead so his skill is irrelevant. But let's say he survives and taunts. Now he applies the effect to a char that has his turn meter just reset,and has built 1 Speed...(their speed diference) and thus reduces 25% of 1 ...order of things isn't changed at all for ANY CHAR that is faster than Poe, and dies not help any Ally slower than Poe. Whoever when before Poe still gets a second turn before any ally slower than Poe does.

    Compare with Slow from Phasma...Rey would be slowed the entire walk to Rey's turn 2...and 3. A complete and radical difference. Abysmal. Poe taunt did next to nothing vs any char that can go before him and this list has more than tripled in just a day.
    obiwan1011 wrote: »

    1. Yes, there is no denying that Poe was nerfed, but he will remain competitive as he will still be the fastest tank, still reduce 25% TM (which is non-resistible. No other hero has a non-resistible TM/speed reduction that I can think of), still resist a ton (just not as much as in the past), still can inflict offense down with normal attacks and still has a better chance to survive an one shot kill than Han who has 2k less health than Poe. But the good old days of "I win the Poe coin toss and I win" is now over. Thankfully

    Coin toss was over already with the time meter change, and the iriginal nerf announced. What they did here is just uterly destroy a char twice in a row and fail their world and apply excedd just when they stated they would be prudent and I am not happy that the new **** toss will be QGJ, and that the Sid coin toss has gone forever as well. And that chars are nerfed to death just because 30 people out of 10,000s post and post about it. Bad example by CG. Unethical to take things this far. Bad business. Low ethics. And self-contradicting of previous promises and the past announcement. Not a good sign. A slap in the face to people that spent money based on how thing work. We compete and we spend money on plans. A Droid team is useless now to ANYONE basic enough to have 3-4 of the many many chars that go before Poe, that can see what they are against before entering.
    obiwan1011 wrote: »

    2. This is exactly what I had feared; taking a step-by-step nerf approach leaves a bad taste to people. It is better to make one swift stroke than doing incremental nerfs as most people will react negatively to multiple nerfs (i.e. "you nerfed him once and yet you nerf him again?")

    The Barris affair was a one shot and cause apologies and refunds. What happened here is CG didn't take any feedback from the players that had Poe, nor from the ones that discussed ways to make it less effective, overnerfed the char while affecting him on top with a TM huge swing which is also caused in large part due to Poe. They DESTROYED this char....wait a few weeks and see where he is in Arena compared to your fav chars like Sid, Phasma, etc.
    obiwan1011 wrote: »

    3. But yes, omitting this change in the update note is a head scratcher. I would imagine CG is aware of the fact that one balance change is a lot more significant than a page worth of cosmetic changes

    Not just ommiti g. It's the most important update of the actual game along with speed and Yoda. It's gross.
  • ^^^^^^^^BOOOOM
  • Triqui wrote: »
    Triqui wrote: »
    Also, QGJ vs QGJ is a **** toss, and so Rey vs Reu, and Ework Scout vs Ework Scout. Apparently, I am missing tour point because now Poe protects nothing, essy to one shot and the turn meter does very very little except skip Luminara if you have Droids and a few niche alt setups.

    The difference is if your QGJ win the coin toss, your QGJ go first. With old Poe if your Poe win the coin toss, all your team go first. The first thing is pretty much unavoidable in any game that rolls to break even results. The second one is s consequence of bad game design

    Let's assume no nerf to Poe, thebupdate rolls and speed buff aplies at first turn. Now, you see my squad and have 10 chars faster than Poe. Tou pock the best combo. Here are options

    1 Kil anything Poe wante to protect like 88
    2 kill poe before taunt
    3 abikity block poe
    4 Stun poe and deliver 4 blows to squishy char intru to protect

    All these options have no RNG. You auto win.
    3 and 4 are covered, because Poe still has the highest tenacity in the game. There are chabces he get blocked or stuns, but those rely on RNG, and it SHOULD be so. Being uncoutereable is bad design.

    Number 1 is s problem, yes, because you (assuming droids because of the 88 reference) still have a 1.0 meta team into 2.0 meta. You can't play anymore with just 2 threats (the assasin droids) and the rest of the team built to buff them (HK, Poggle) under the assumtion that you play alone for a couple of actions (Poe). Bring more threats. I use IG86, 88 and Geo Soldier, and have just won a game that I had lost 88 right off the bat.

    Number 2 poe is still drawing fire, as if he had taunted. The thing is he dont create the time bubble. But that is a good thing. Because the time bubble is horrible

    But it is ok to eliminate his time bubble, and allow QGJ to create a PERMANENT 26 speed bubble? I have GS too, and many other chars. I had 12 7* and many 6 and 5* that I use regularly in Arena and in GW. Since you CAN see entire teams now, and you have many choices to ensure at least 4 or 5 chars go before any Poe, he no longer serves a purpose in my plan and teams. He goes late, and when he goes late his TM does NOTHING very useful as chars that go before him couldn't care less. On turn 2 they still all go before poe and who poe was trying to help. Since anybody competitive in arena will seek a competitive team that can defend and no of the options will include Poe a few weeks from now as people realize what has happened, you will see how "viable" is a choice of words for those that are still struggling in GW....he is definitely not an Arena worthy char anymore in any competitive arena - undeservedly.
  • Nonemo wrote: »
    Nonemo wrote: »
    Nonemo wrote: »
    vangoh wrote: »
    You do realize that they could just release patch notes after the patch. There is no pleasing this community. No matter what CG does there will be 100 I'm calling my credit card company posts.

    You do realize they didn't do that, right? They posted changes coming in and did something else (false and misleading information)? Jeez, do you even know what's actually going on?

    Devs stated way back that the changes to tenacity were preliminary and that they were monitoring the situation. Read back. This means that more changes could reasonably be expected to come. There's nothing misleading about this course of actions imo.

    That also said that the possible changes would be implemented after observation of the game after the patch rolled out, which was untrue.

    @Nonemo, I suggest you read again.

    Doesn't change the fact that changes were to be expected, sooner or later.

    This isn't even a heavy nerf. The big part is the change in how speed works. Which changes everything for ALL characters. Can't use that as an argument when it comes to Poe specifically. -1 speed on Poe is negligible. He gained some ATK and lost some HP. Well boo hoo.

    Doesn't change the fact that people have a right to be aggrieved.

    Must be nice to be you. Argue on a point and smoothly change to another when your point is beeped. Sales?

    People always have the right to be aggravated. Doesn't mean they're in the right.

    It's not too nice to be me. I burned out at my job as successful editor-in-chief nine months ago. Now I play silly app games and argue with strangers online. Well... Since you asked.

    Editor-in-chief, huh? No wonder your sympathies lie with the management, can't take criticism.

    Sorry I came back but you really didn't say anything about why the aggrieved people are in the wrong. Because they believed what the devs said and changed game play and spent cash on that belief, they're in the wrong? Try doing that in your publication, posting one thing and doing something else and then expecting kudos on a job well done! Oh, sorry, you burnt out, you can't do anything like that now! My bad.

    You know what, once you start targeting and branding buyers personally in a matter between them and the sellers, you're bound to start getting personal attacks. You are a happy customer. Enjoy. Some are not happy with their product, let them do whatever they want. Why does it affect you? Let the conversation be between the affected parties. Let the devs and /or their reps handle the complaints. That is their job, not yours or anybody else's. Isn't it preposterous that I'm arguing with you over something I'm not even that mad about? I just want to put it out there that misleading customers will always be taken badly. Why do I have to be branded a loser, a whiner by anybody else?

    Mods, you have to handle these kind of posts at least in the announcement and feedback threads.
  • First, thank you Jesse for what you do. I appreciate the communication. I am saddened and upset though about where we ended up and how tough this is making the job for you.

    Fixing the speed and eventually going to level 80 is itself effectively a big nerf to poe, who will never go before those formerly 1st turn characters.

    then subtract 15% expose.

    then subtract 13% tenacity.

    then subtract 444 health.

    that's the new poe.

    Please stop listening to the whiners on the board and take a diplomatic stance that things will change on their own - just like they did with Dooku. Instead, we are pushing everything to QGJ teams and speed + DPS is still the meta to beat. Depressing.

    I guess I'll finish the resistance team I was working on, which will take like 2 months and then work on catching up to beating this meta. Depressing.

    Hopefully someday I'll have enough characters to not always be behind a meta, though.
    ☮ Consular ☮ Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. -Ben Kenobi
  • J7000
    2059 posts Member
    Naecabon wrote: »
    Why does anyone care about this change to Poe? Why even change him at all now? With the new way speed works, changing him from 143 to 142 accomplishes almost nothing. Now, he's guaranteed to act before Rey... and Hoth Rebel Scout. Those were the only two characters at exactly 143 speed. So they felt they had to change him for that? I don't get it.

    And why are you so upset about this? Do you guys not realize the new speed system is a) better for the game, and b) that the Poe nerf is barely a nerf at all? It seriously altered almost nothing about him now.

    @Naebwyn Most are just being hysterical. There are still plenty of Poes in the top ten after the change and one team easily takes the 1 spot. Too much speculation and less application going on.
  • With this poe nerf we can clearly see that they are unable to handle nerfs. In the patch notes there were nothing about the -1 spd nor -444 health for poe, only his tenacity and his expose should've been affected and that they would monitor how he would perform, well, that clearly didn't happened.
    They also just didn't messed with poe but they also complety changed how spd works without previous notice. If they were going to change how spd works since the beginning (btw they also didn't announced that spd leader would work since turn 1 on arena) poe wouldn't need a single nerf, but if they really want to nerf him, they could've just removed his ability to take his turn meter. But now they nerfed his hp tenacity spd and expose change... Well, that's a pretty huge nerf.
    Imho since they made all those spd changes poe didn't need to be nerfed and there would still be a good amount of diversity. And the worst thing is that they didn't announced anything of this and still haven't apologized.
  • The only stat that actually makes any difference is his tenacity nerf and maybe health a little...which they posted in the original update thread.

    His -1 speed doesn't effect him at all.

    Speed isn't grouped into tiers any more, so Poe isn't even close to competing for first turn any more anyways.

    You should NOT get refunded for Poe because he isn't the only one effected by the speed change. Literally every single hero over 143 felt it. Faster characters should go first...that's just common sense. Maybe instead of following the trend next time, you'll try to predict where the game is going instead of where it is now.

    My only question is, Why did you change his gear @EA_Jesse? Why didn't you adjust is base stats tenacity if you were trying to target just that one stat?

    -1 makes a char that is becoming very popular and can one shot anyone go before a taunter.

    I don't like where this game is going. Like being pushed all around to hurry people to have the flavor of the month of what they sell, hurry them and reduce key resource by 80% like the Credits events. Other love this. what I don't like is Barrigate 2 of epic proportions in a game that basically charges hundreds of dollars per month if not more for thousands of users upgrading chars as they try to be competitive. It's abusive and was also poorly managed to be optimistic.

  • Ello_Asty
    562 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Finally, I thought people like you were mocking Poe "nerf bunnies" to adapt, adopt a better strategy (whatever that means), stop whining, etc. Why don't you start applying that same argument to yourself given the Poe auto-win is no longer in place?
    Getting really tired of you saying this over and over again. You do not understand that with the speed changes and level 80 coming, plus the QGJ cantina release combined with the Yoda events meant that Poe was doomed to begin with and now he is gimped? That was part of the reason I was encouraging people to adapt. It was never to last anyways - plus too many sheep following the leader meant coming up with the next strategy would give you a HUGE advantage. And now I read that you were beating Poe teams without Poe? Why do you even argue the point then? Now, we have to prepare for a level 80 QGJ nightmare that was already going to make Poe irrelevant. Really, what is the point of tanks in this game? I've lost a lot of respect for you obiwan. Your arguments are not accurate, you are pushing an agenda, and ending it with a child-like "I told you so".
    ☮ Consular ☮ Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. -Ben Kenobi
  • EA_Jesse wrote: »
    Speed and how this version has affected it across the board:
    • Speed, prior to this update, was not incredibly precise (hence the grouping of units of close Speed characters into a Tier).
    • Speed is now very precise and 1 point of Speed over another character guarantees the initial turn order.
    • Only in the case of an exact tie is it a coin toss.

    Poe Dameron’s balancing changes were made by changing equipment pieces at Gear Lvl II and Gear Lvl III. This was done to avoid as much disruption as possible for players working toward completion of higher Gear Lvls. We aim to make targeted changes such as this as to not directly change the statistics of Gear items as that affects numerous characters who share it.

    Due to this targeted approach, the goal was to address his high amount of Tenacity, additional stats were affected – both positively and negatively. These totals are provided at the end of this post.

    We value the developer and community relationship but mistakes will happen on both sides when it comes to communication. We’re in this together to make Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes the best game it can be.

    With that said, the following are all very important aspects to developing the game:
    • Balance changes will happen. Some popular, some not. It’s a double-edged sword where one side of the fence is pleased and the other is upset.
    • Going forward, if we make a targeted change like this, we will aim to detail out the full and complete change to all statistics. This was our mistake and we own up to that. It was not intended to be a stealth nerf.

    Due to the missed communication of Poe, here’s what we’re doing:
    • We’re going to let all of his balance changes remain as they exist today but will keep a close eye on how he’s performing and address accordingly.

    The following statistics breakdown is the entirety of changes that affected Poe Dameron at level 70 and his absolute maximum gear level:
    • -23 Strength
    • +15 Agility
    • -7 Intelligence
    • -1 Speed
    • -444 Health
    • +5% Health Steal
    • -15% Tenacity
    • +31 Physical Damage
    • +9 Armor
    • +6 Physical Critical Rating
    • -29 Special Damage

    I am critical of EA/CG when they make mistakes. I temper that equally with praise when they do something right.

    The message above written by @EA_Jesse is what players are looking for, before the release. Had you made this simple post a few days ago, the forum would not have devolved into chaos as it did yesterday.
  • Preemo_Magin
    1826 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    Every time someone repeats the lie that the meta has changed from high speed and damage.

    The force kills a youngling.

    Please think of the younglings.

    If you move up in speed, so go past Poe, that team doesn't have the one hit knock out ability to take down tanks that have >14k health. That build needed a heavy hitting FOTP and a Poe with high expose to get the 20% inst-drop in health. The health steal implemented also completely helps slower toons more than fast, because fast toons are stealing health in their first turns when they are full; they get no benefit as a result. The slow toons actually get to refill their health bar with their response attacks. DoT killing now also impacts the fast / lower health toons to a greater extent as the DoT has a greater relative impact on their total health. I've had multiple Jinn / GS, etc. die at the start of round 2 as they start to take their action.

    I will believe it when I see it.

    This approach already worked around 60% before the change

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/8772/slow-dancing-with-poe-and-his-dps-minions-countering-poe-at-143-speed/p1

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/9732/slow-dancing-with-poe-follow-up/p1


    After the change today I haven't lost to a version of these speed teams yet: 9-0 now. If teams pull Poe completely out of the equation it gets much easier since I'm not contending with the 20% expose right off the top, which on Kylo is >3k health. Additionally, now that speed is natural in order, Sid always gets his aoe hit off. I don't have to worry about Poe leading the entire battle, Sid getting meter yanked + exposed and then being killed before he moves. The AI doesn't focus fire well so a fast team with initiative may kill one toon by the time it's my turn. That's ok because the really fast toons that go beyond Poe have pretty modest health. Just a few aoe hits and they are dead or near dead. Round 2 they are now really in trouble because the round 1 DoT's from Sid are sitting on them and they are getting killed by the DoTs.

    If I read this correctly you can win close to 100% against Poe and non Poe teams with just one team. And happy that an OP like Sid, the most used char in the game is non counterable. ChR with the best leadership abd that can land 5k per enemy max geared for 25k damage. I am glad you are happy! Great news for Arena.

    Btw I have ALL the chars in this team of you at 7*. I just don't like CG Play God. They should the chars evolve and stop doing their miraculous instant char destructions. It's not prident nor wose nor fair nor correct...coming from someone that has Poe but also has you exact Winner Team as well. So coming from where I am tou can rest assured I am not in this position just because I won't be able to Excel. I just fundamentaly stopped believing after all this.

  • Rolf
    1032 posts Member
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Stefchou wrote: »
    What if I waste another month to farm QGJ and he gets nerfed in a month or two...

    A very likely scenario. Hence, it is always smart to be the first to jump onto the bandwagon to reap the benefits and then jump off and hop onto the next one before it is too late.

    No bandwagon lasts forever. If there is a beginning, there is an end. The Poe ride was "fun" till it lasted, but move on.
    So the only ones truly hosed by the change are those of us who brought him from not-useable to useable, because we believed what was actually told to us in the official Dev patch release post. Shafted because we trusted. Oh this will be a day long remembered.
    My ally code: 296-673-769. Wish we could have more than 35.
  • Don't over stress guys, well if everything else remains, once the cap reaches 80 with QGJ, poe will be almost as he was before, just hold on to him for the time being I guess.
  • Nonemo
    1656 posts Member
    Editor-in-chief, huh? No wonder your sympathies lie with the management, can't take criticism.

    Thanks for the psychological profile. I can assure you that you know next to nothing about me and my motivating forces or ideology. But good job turning this into a discussion about me as a person.
    Sorry I came back but you really didn't say anything about why the aggrieved people are in the wrong. Because they believed what the devs said and changed game play and spent cash on that belief, they're in the wrong?

    Nope. They're in the wrong when they claim that they've been misled.

    First of all: Devs have at no point stated that they would not make additional changes. Quite the contrary, they've said that they're open to making further adjustments. They also stated that they would change some gear. Which they did.

    Secondly: These changes to Poe's stats aren't massive. He loses some tenacity, as previously stated. He loses ONE speed point, and a bunch of HP. But he gains some ATK.

    The only reason Poe isn't as insanely unbalanced anymore is because they changed how speed works in a fundamental way. This applies to all characters, not just Poe. Therefore Poe owners don't have any more right than any other player to complain about it.

    Try doing that in your publication, posting one thing and doing something else and then expecting kudos on a job well done! Oh, sorry, you burnt out, you can't do anything like that now! My bad.

    That's a real low blow. Just pointing it out.
    You know what, once you start targeting and branding buyers personally in a matter between them and the sellers, you're bound to start getting personal attacks.

    Who did I target? I replied to a few statements that I believed to be less than accurate. I've kept this discussion entirely about Poe and the game mechanics. The one targeting people and going ad hominem here is you. I think that's plain for all to see.
    You are a happy customer. Enjoy. Some are not happy with their product, let them do whatever they want. Why does it affect you? Let the conversation be between the affected parties.

    This is not how communities and forums work. I have Poe too btw.
  • J7000
    2059 posts Member
    Bluemoon wrote: »
    This is too funny. After pages of posts of nerfing Poe, he gets nerfed the exact way people want and now we are going to get pages of posts of how mad people are he got nerfed. And people are going to quit because of a week or two of farming Poe?

    I can't think of a more toxic board that I have ever seen. I sure hope everyone who threatened to leave actually does and maybe this turn into a better board. If you don't like the game, just leave and quit complaining about it.

    What would be a lot more interesting would be pages of what will work in a new meta. I for one am very interested to see what works. And I did star up and gear up a Poe, and I bet I will still use him quite a bit.

    You will. No matter what they say. He's still very powerful
  • Azraelrulez
    1908 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Nonemo wrote: »
    Editor-in-chief, huh? No wonder your sympathies lie with the management, can't take criticism.

    Thanks for the psychological profile. I can assure you that you know next to nothing about me and my motivating forces or ideology. But good job turning this into a discussion about me as a person.
    Sorry I came back but you really didn't say anything about why the aggrieved people are in the wrong. Because they believed what the devs said and changed game play and spent cash on that belief, they're in the wrong?

    Nope. They're in the wrong when they claim that they've been misled.

    First of all: Devs have at no point stated that they would not make additional changes. Quite the contrary, they've said that they're open to making further adjustments. They also stated that they would change some gear. Which they did.

    Secondly: These changes to Poe's stats aren't massive. He loses some tenacity, as previously stated. He loses ONE speed point, and a bunch of HP. But he gains some ATK.

    The only reason Poe isn't as insanely unbalanced anymore is because they changed how speed works in a fundamental way. This applies to all characters, not just Poe. Therefore Poe owners don't have any more right than any other player to complain about it.

    Try doing that in your publication, posting one thing and doing something else and then expecting kudos on a job well done! Oh, sorry, you burnt out, you can't do anything like that now! My bad.

    That's a real low blow. Just pointing it out.
    You know what, once you start targeting and branding buyers personally in a matter between them and the sellers, you're bound to start getting personal attacks.

    Who did I target? I replied to a few statements that I believed to be less than accurate. I've kept this discussion entirely about Poe and the game mechanics. The one targeting people and going ad hominem here is you. I think that's plain for all to see.
    You are a happy customer. Enjoy. Some are not happy with their product, let them do whatever they want. Why does it affect you? Let the conversation be between the affected parties.

    This is not how communities and forums work. I have Poe too btw.

    1st, additional means just that,additional. They posted some changes, and any additional changes was to be applied after the fact. Read again.

    2nd, implying that anyone who didn't like to be misled into spending money and time is a whiner or a loser is much worse than a personal attack. You're branding people together and that is never OK in my book.

    3rd, you might want to look at what we are posting. Most of us have no complaints about Poe, just about misleading information being fed to us. Typical that you don't see that at all and keep going about Poe ad hominem.

    4th, you are not trying to get your point across in the community/forum. You are batting for CG by twisting what was said by them in a thread where the change has been detailed presumably for feedback which we are trying to give.Why are you answering for CG? How is that contributing to the community?

    Finally, yes it was a low blow and I apologize whole heartedly. I still don't like you and your attitude and your blatant attempt at twisting facts as they stand by giving redundant excuses.

    But, again, I'm sorry for that particular comment. You've been a gentleman in pointing that out so matter of factly (is that even a word?)

    Edit: enough is enough. Don't quote me and I won't quote you. I'll concede we both are looking at the same picture from different angles. Let's clear the space for the other players.
  • KitsuAeryn
    201 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Very happy with this change!
    BatuKhan wrote: »
    Am I understanding this correctly: He loses 444 health also? So he loses speed, he loses tenacity, he loses expose, AND he loses a huge chunk of health?

    He loses a single point of speed. He's still going to get his taunt off before most folks get to go, and that means he's going to absorb a couple hits that your glass cannons would have otherwise taken to the chin.

    Poe's still viable for the same reasons he was always viable -- a lightning-fast taunt. I think these changes are likely to make that competitive to play against instead of an arms race where everyone needs a maxed Poe to compete.

    Well done, devs!
    You have to be a bit of a liar to tell a story the right way.
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member

    But it is ok to eliminate his time bubble, and allow QGJ to create a PERMANENT 26 speed bubble? I have GS too, and many other chars. I had 12 7* and many 6 and 5* that I use regularly in Arena and in GW. Since you CAN see entire teams now, and you have many choices to ensure at least 4 or 5 chars go before any Poe, he no longer serves a purpose in my plan and teams.
    But QGJ does not create a bubble. You can act in between, if you have characters in that speed bracket.between Eeth Koth 151 and Luminara's 141 I can use my Rey.

    Now, your team particularly will get busted, because it was benefiting more from the time bubble. Now it will be less good. Just like in the previously patch, Nightsisters were bad because they didn't benefit from Poe's time bubble. That's normal when metas shift. But that doesn't mean the change wasn't good for the game as a whole
  • lol @ all the people in the first couple pages saying this was a 'mistake'. They completely changed the mechanics of the game. Fundamentally changed. 'Mistake'. lol
  • obiwan1011 wrote: »
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    No one ever going to play a tank in competitive arena ranks is not a more open meta

    Do you even read? I play Han. Reisze plays Han. Are you suggesting we play in a non-competitive arena?

    Why does the game have to revolve around Poe to be more open or closed meta?

    It doesnt revolve around poe.
    The nerf was unnecessary with the new speed changes and fix to leader speed buff.

    I repeatedly said I am opposed to the claim that a poe nerf opened up the meta.

    As for the arena ranking comment.

    It really depends on the server.

    The whale on my server is almost 70 and has 26k power atm.

    I am only at close to 20k atm

    So everything is relative.

    A lonely whale on the right server will dominate even if they play something less optimal

    1. I am a F2P
    2. Yes, every server is a little different. Some have more whales than others. But once you reach the end game (i.e. level 70, a team of 7* heroes), it's not like whale teams have 5k more power than F2P teams. The level cap ensures F2P can still compete. The only advantage that whales have in the end game is access to the more exotic characters. But, if you look at the prevalent glass cannons, only Leia is Chromium; the rest (Rey, GS, IG-86, FOTP) are all farmable
    3. If your team is only around 20k, it would perhaps be a good idea for you to walk down further before claiming as if you know everything about the meta and dissing others

    One doesn't need to have AIDS to know what HIV is. It's simply reading the forums and seeing how the meta looks like.

    And please just because you can beat an AI which can make questionable choices. Doesn't make your team good. It's the AI plays badly, don't need to be max 70 n 7* to see that.

    If it was a straight pvp between two players interacting... Things will be very different.



  • Nonemo
    1656 posts Member
    1st, additional means just that,additional. They posted some changes, and any additional changes was to be applied after the fact. Read again.

    I did read again. I still don't see the problem. Possible changes were advertised. I keep stressing this point. They happened a little sooner rather than later, but no clear time frame was given anyway. This was a matter of when rather than if, from the beginning. Therefore I honestly don't see how this can cause such an outrage. Especially since the adjustments were mild, to say the least.
    2nd, implying that anyone who didn't like to be misled into spending money and time is a whiner or a loser is much worse than a personal attack. You're branding people together and that is never OK in my book.

    Yes, I am saying that people are whining. And I'm making a case for why no misleading has taken place. Please respond to the arguments I make instead of telling me how bad I am as a person.
    3rd, you might want to look at what we are posting. Most of us have no complaints about Poe, just about misleading information being fed to us. Typical that you don't see that at all and keep going about Poe ad hominem.

    I feel that I've responded to this above.
    4th, you are not trying to get your point across in the community/forum. You are batting for CG by twisting what was said by them in a thread where the change has been detailed presumably for feedback which we are trying to give.Why are you answering for CG? How is that contributing to the community?

    "The truths we cling to often depend greatly upon our own point of view", as Obi-Wan so wisely put it. I don't think I'm twisting words here. I believe that I'm trying to get behind the words to the core of what is taking place here: Was the communication actually misleading? And are the changes to Poe so big so as to make talk about refunds, hating the developers, never buying from them again etc, reasonably called for?

    I've argued for why I respond with a "no" to both these questions. Please start responding to my actual points with points of your own, and stop trying to question why I'm speaking up in the first place.
    Finally, yes it was a low blow and I apologize whole heartedly. I still don't like you and your attitude and your blatant attempt at twisting facts as they stand by giving redundant excuses.

    Apology accepted. Things can get heated in a debate.
  • Obi please, I get you love Poe dead and destroyed.

    Preemo,

    I must say I am disappointed with you as you have accused me of things that I have never said.

    I said,

    1. Make TM reduction resistible or increase its % per Resistance member
    2. I am against step-by-step nerfs
    3.Too much speed and too damage are the real problem.

    I don't want Poe or any characters nerfed to oblivion. I have Poe as well.
    Rey has +1 speed vs Poe now. (And like 17 others can go first via Speed leadership too but lets use Rey to make it more clear).

    She hits Poe. Now Poe is 80% dead so his skill is irrelevant. But let's say he survives and taunts. Now he applies the effect to a char that has his turn meter just reset,and has built 1 Speed...(their speed diference) and thus reduces 25% of 1 ...order of things isn't changed at all for ANY CHAR that is faster than Poe, and dies not help any Ally slower than Poe. Whoever when before Poe still gets a second turn before any ally slower than Poe does.

    Compare with Slow from Phasma...Rey would be slowed the entire walk to Rey's turn 2...and 3. A complete and radical difference. Abysmal. Poe taunt did next to nothing vs any char that can go before him and this list has more than tripled in just a day.

    Whatever. So are other tanks. What makes you think Poe needs special treatment compared to others who are equally vulnerable to one shot kills? I am not going to repeat myself which you claimed you understood previously.
    Coin toss was over already with the time meter change, and the iriginal nerf announced. What they did here is just uterly destroy a char twice in a row and fail their world and apply excedd just when they stated they would be prudent and I am not happy that the new **** toss will be QGJ, and that the Sid coin toss has gone forever as well. And that chars are nerfed to death just because 30 people out of 10,000s post and post about it. Bad example by CG. Unethical to take things this far. Bad business. Low ethics. And self-contradicting of previous promises and the past announcement. Not a good sign. A slap in the face to people that spent money based on how thing work. We compete and we spend money on plans. A Droid team is useless now to ANYONE basic enough to have 3-4 of the many many chars that go before Poe, that can see what they are against before entering.

    They did not. Maybe got nerfed too much, but not destroyed. He is still very viable. Just not as OP as before. You still can't wake up from the old glorious days when Poe gave you auto-win.

    The Barris affair was a one shot and cause apologies and refunds. What happened here is CG didn't take any feedback from the players that had Poe, nor from the ones that discussed ways to make it less effective, overnerfed the char while affecting him on top with a TM huge swing which is also caused in large part due to Poe. They DESTROYED this char....wait a few weeks and see where he is in Arena compared to your fav chars like Sid, Phasma, etc.

    Same old story.
  • obiwan1011
    396 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Ello_Asty wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Finally, I thought people like you were mocking Poe "nerf bunnies" to adapt, adopt a better strategy (whatever that means), stop whining, etc. Why don't you start applying that same argument to yourself given the Poe auto-win is no longer in place?
    Getting really tired of you saying this over and over again.

    So am I. But wake up. Party is over.
    Ello_Asty wrote: »
    You do not understand that with the speed changes and level 80 coming, plus the QGJ cantina release combined with the Yoda events meant that Poe was doomed to begin with and now he is gimped? That was part of the reason I was encouraging people to adapt. It was never to last anyways - plus too many sheep following the leader meant coming up with the next strategy would give you a HUGE advantage.

    How is that any different with other tanks? I have been consistent about Poe outperforming others.
    Ello_Asty wrote: »
    And now I read that you were beating Poe teams without Poe? Why do you even argue the point then?

    So according to your extreme view, an hero should be nerfed only when he/she is invincible? Seriously?

    Answer this: Do you think it is fair to have an entire team go first over the other? That's what made Poe so powerful and "delicious" to many people. Just answer yes or no.
    Ello_Asty wrote: »
    Now, we have to prepare for a level 80 QGJ nightmare that was already going to make Poe irrelevant. Really, what is the point of tanks in this game? I've lost a lot of respect for you obiwan. Your arguments are not accurate, you are pushing an agenda, and ending it with a child-like "I told you so".

    All of us do and I hope CG stops making these mistakes. Enough people warned about Poe becoming too disruptive at level 70, but CG, for whatever reason, stuck with their plans and created this mess.

    I am sorry to hear you lost faith in me. But I have been consistent with what I have said all along and not resorting to any threats or personal attacks.
  • SlyGambit wrote: »
    lol @ all the people in the first couple pages saying this was a 'mistake'. They completely changed the mechanics of the game. Fundamentally changed. 'Mistake'. lol

    They did and "forgot" to post this change in the patch notes. IT'S THE BIGGEST CHANGE OF THE ENTIRE PATCH. It's just all so dishonest. "hey guys, spend money on this, this is what you are going to get." Then "lol, just kidding, thanks for your time and money, but you really aren't getting what we said you were getting."

    First they got so many folks to spend $50 on Barriss... then nerfed her into the ground.

    Then they got everyone to spend time and money on Poe.. and promised only certain changes.... then nerfed him into the ground.

    And now it's "hey guys, farm up 5 jedi!!! they are good!" and then tomorrow they will give away a character that kills Jedi in one hit.

  • Ello_Asty wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Finally, I thought people like you were mocking Poe "nerf bunnies" to adapt, adopt a better strategy (whatever that means), stop whining, etc. Why don't you start applying that same argument to yourself given the Poe auto-win is no longer in place?
    Getting really tired of you saying this over and over again. You do not understand that with the speed changes and level 80 coming, plus the QGJ cantina release combined with the Yoda events meant that Poe was doomed to begin with and now he is gimped? That was part of the reason I was encouraging people to adapt. It was never to last anyways - plus too many sheep following the leader meant coming up with the next strategy would give you a HUGE advantage. And now I read that you were beating Poe teams without Poe? Why do you even argue the point then? Now, we have to prepare for a level 80 QGJ nightmare that was already going to make Poe irrelevant. Really, what is the point of tanks in this game? I've lost a lot of respect for you obiwan. Your arguments are not accurate, you are pushing an agenda, and ending it with a child-like "I told you so".

    Finally someone who gets it,

    Misconstruing genuine complaints about how the update was carried out

    The QGJ nightmare is coming....

    Everyone will rush to pump up QGJ

    Speed and damage,

    The game will have no reason to have any tanks.

    Rey ( those who can accord her ) dooku gs QGJ will be core

    Heck who uses even 20% of all the characters if they managed to unlock all of them?

  • SpeedWeed
    504 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I think it's cute that since every other tank is useless

    Why should POE be special??

    Really?

    Then every attacker should have Ashoka speed.

    Why does Rey get to be so fast and high damage output.

    Nerf everything.

    Everyone will play 5 upnaughts with different skins.
This discussion has been closed.