Speed Changes and Poe Dameron

Replies

  • SpeedWeed wrote: »
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    Every time someone repeats the lie that the meta has changed from high speed and damage.

    The force kills a youngling.

    Please think of the younglings.

    If you move up in speed, so go past Poe, that team doesn't have the one hit knock out ability to take down tanks that have >14k health. That build needed a heavy hitting FOTP and a Poe with high expose to get the 20% inst-drop in health. The health steal implemented also completely helps slower toons more than fast, because fast toons are stealing health in their first turns when they are full; they get no benefit as a result. The slow toons actually get to refill their health bar with their response attacks. DoT killing now also impacts the fast / lower health toons to a greater extent as the DoT has a greater relative impact on their total health. I've had multiple Jinn / GS, etc. die at the start of round 2 as they start to take their action.

    I will believe it when I see it.

    This approach already worked around 60% before the change

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/8772/slow-dancing-with-poe-and-his-dps-minions-countering-poe-at-143-speed/p1

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/9732/slow-dancing-with-poe-follow-up/p1


    After the change today I haven't lost to a version of these speed teams yet: 9-0 now. If teams pull Poe completely out of the equation it gets much easier since I'm not contending with the 20% expose right off the top, which on Kylo is >3k health. Additionally, now that speed is natural in order, Sid always gets his aoe hit off. I don't have to worry about Poe leading the entire battle, Sid getting meter yanked + exposed and then being killed before he moves. The AI doesn't focus fire well so a fast team with initiative may kill one toon by the time it's my turn. That's ok because the really fast toons that go beyond Poe have pretty modest health. Just a few aoe hits and they are dead or near dead. Round 2 they are now really in trouble because the round 1 DoT's from Sid are sitting on them and they are getting killed by the DoTs.

    If I read this correctly you can win close to 100% against Poe and non Poe teams with just one team. And happy that an OP like Sid, the most used char in the game is non counterable. ChR with the best leadership abd that can land 5k per enemy max geared for 25k damage. I am glad you are happy! Great news for Arena.

    Btw I have ALL the chars in this team of you at 7*. I just don't like CG Play God. They should the chars evolve and stop doing their miraculous instant char destructions. It's not prident nor wose nor fair nor correct...coming from someone that has Poe but also has you exact Winner Team as well. So coming from where I am tou can rest assured I am not in this position just because I won't be able to Excel. I just fundamentaly stopped believing after all this.

    I think you didn't follow the context of the entire discussion I was having. The question was about the speed meta changing or not - essentially the other poster was arguing that now people will just use faster heroes than Poe and still just wipe everything away: Rey, GS/ Jinn lead, etc. My reply was the above test results vs. those kinds of teams with tankier heroes >14k health generally.

    Who said Sid wasn't counterable? Never said that. He's very counterable.

    Against AI which often do not focus fire or make accurate decisions and wasting heals due to bad programming does not make something good.

    It means the AI is bad.

    I have lost to aoe teams but I beat them

    Besides if poe can be beat without poe.

    Nerf was unnecessary especially with new speed change
  • SpeedWeed wrote: »
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    Every time someone repeats the lie that the meta has changed from high speed and damage.

    The force kills a youngling.

    Please think of the younglings.

    If you move up in speed, so go past Poe, that team doesn't have the one hit knock out ability to take down tanks that have >14k health. That build needed a heavy hitting FOTP and a Poe with high expose to get the 20% inst-drop in health. The health steal implemented also completely helps slower toons more than fast, because fast toons are stealing health in their first turns when they are full; they get no benefit as a result. The slow toons actually get to refill their health bar with their response attacks. DoT killing now also impacts the fast / lower health toons to a greater extent as the DoT has a greater relative impact on their total health. I've had multiple Jinn / GS, etc. die at the start of round 2 as they start to take their action.

    I will believe it when I see it.

    This approach already worked around 60% before the change

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/8772/slow-dancing-with-poe-and-his-dps-minions-countering-poe-at-143-speed/p1

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/9732/slow-dancing-with-poe-follow-up/p1


    After the change today I haven't lost to a version of these speed teams yet: 9-0 now. If teams pull Poe completely out of the equation it gets much easier since I'm not contending with the 20% expose right off the top, which on Kylo is >3k health. Additionally, now that speed is natural in order, Sid always gets his aoe hit off. I don't have to worry about Poe leading the entire battle, Sid getting meter yanked + exposed and then being killed before he moves. The AI doesn't focus fire well so a fast team with initiative may kill one toon by the time it's my turn. That's ok because the really fast toons that go beyond Poe have pretty modest health. Just a few aoe hits and they are dead or near dead. Round 2 they are now really in trouble because the round 1 DoT's from Sid are sitting on them and they are getting killed by the DoTs.

    If I read this correctly you can win close to 100% against Poe and non Poe teams with just one team. And happy that an OP like Sid, the most used char in the game is non counterable. ChR with the best leadership abd that can land 5k per enemy max geared for 25k damage. I am glad you are happy! Great news for Arena.

    Btw I have ALL the chars in this team of you at 7*. I just don't like CG Play God. They should the chars evolve and stop doing their miraculous instant char destructions. It's not prident nor wose nor fair nor correct...coming from someone that has Poe but also has you exact Winner Team as well. So coming from where I am tou can rest assured I am not in this position just because I won't be able to Excel. I just fundamentaly stopped believing after all this.

    I think you didn't follow the context of the entire discussion I was having. The question was about the speed meta changing or not - essentially the other poster was arguing that now people will just use faster heroes than Poe and still just wipe everything away: Rey, GS/ Jinn lead, etc. My reply was the above test results vs. those kinds of teams with tankier heroes >14k health generally.

    Who said Sid wasn't counterable? Never said that. He's very counterable.

    You can't counter Sid massive AoE except 15% by wasting Dooku nor the dots (unless you bring a cleanser that nobody is using, as it's not helping you win). GS is not speedy anymore and has little synergy without Poe...you didn't fight high speed meta but if you think you did time will tell.

  • El_Duderino
    413 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Nonemo wrote: »
    Just to reiterate: This is the so-called "nerf" that ppl are talking about.

    -23 Strength (moot since Poe's own attack was never at the heart of the issue)

    +15 Agility (doesn't look like a nerf to me)

    -7 Intelligence (from 442 to 435...)

    -1 Speed (yes, this is the "speed nerf" ppl are talking about)

    -444 Health (moot since Poe didn't need to stay alive, it was his skill that was useful)

    +5% Health Steal (nope, still not a nerf)

    -15% Tenacity (this was announced a long time ago)

    +31 Physical Damage (buffed, not nerfed)

    +9 Armor (moot, but still not nerfed)

    +6 Physical Critical Rating (as above)

    -29 Special Damage (Correct me if I'm wrong, but Poe doesn't even have an attack that deals special damage)


    So, what are you all even upset about? I really, honestly don't understand. What is it that is so terrible?

    I've had time to think about it and play it, and I don't think the stat changes are very big. (FYI health steal at 5% is so nothing w/ Poe's damage, it is mind boggling why it's even in there at all).

    However, the speed changes are very big, and they were glossed over like it was nothing. It is indicative of bad things to come. I've seen it on other games, and I may give this one a pass, but it "feels" like the situation where the game producers are punishing the players for using their own design. It's our fault for creating a meta that is unhealthy for the game, so anyone who put time in this is being punished.

    Furthermore the fact that the source of the issue was not addressed at all (turn meter), and that Poe's speed was set to 142 (which doesn't really matter now, but more seems like a slap in the face) indicates to me that either somebody up there is confused, or the whole process got screwed up along the way. The change was not very well thought out. with regards to Poe-- although speed changes may end up being a good thing.

    I know I'm not alone in that I won't be spending any money until my confidence is restored-- not out of spite, but it puts a pit in my stomach now knowing that any $$ I spend can be pulled out from under me at a whim. You simply cannot argue that this has happened twice now-- once with Poe and once with Barriss. Shame on me if I play along and fall for it a third time.
  • JohnnySteelAlpha
    2794 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    Every time someone repeats the lie that the meta has changed from high speed and damage.

    The force kills a youngling.

    Please think of the younglings.

    If you move up in speed, so go past Poe, that team doesn't have the one hit knock out ability to take down tanks that have >14k health. That build needed a heavy hitting FOTP and a Poe with high expose to get the 20% inst-drop in health. The health steal implemented also completely helps slower toons more than fast, because fast toons are stealing health in their first turns when they are full; they get no benefit as a result. The slow toons actually get to refill their health bar with their response attacks. DoT killing now also impacts the fast / lower health toons to a greater extent as the DoT has a greater relative impact on their total health. I've had multiple Jinn / GS, etc. die at the start of round 2 as they start to take their action.

    I will believe it when I see it.

    This approach already worked around 60% before the change

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/8772/slow-dancing-with-poe-and-his-dps-minions-countering-poe-at-143-speed/p1

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/9732/slow-dancing-with-poe-follow-up/p1


    After the change today I haven't lost to a version of these speed teams yet: 9-0 now. If teams pull Poe completely out of the equation it gets much easier since I'm not contending with the 20% expose right off the top, which on Kylo is >3k health. Additionally, now that speed is natural in order, Sid always gets his aoe hit off. I don't have to worry about Poe leading the entire battle, Sid getting meter yanked + exposed and then being killed before he moves. The AI doesn't focus fire well so a fast team with initiative may kill one toon by the time it's my turn. That's ok because the really fast toons that go beyond Poe have pretty modest health. Just a few aoe hits and they are dead or near dead. Round 2 they are now really in trouble because the round 1 DoT's from Sid are sitting on them and they are getting killed by the DoTs.

    If I read this correctly you can win close to 100% against Poe and non Poe teams with just one team. And happy that an OP like Sid, the most used char in the game is non counterable. ChR with the best leadership abd that can land 5k per enemy max geared for 25k damage. I am glad you are happy! Great news for Arena.

    Btw I have ALL the chars in this team of you at 7*. I just don't like CG Play God. They should the chars evolve and stop doing their miraculous instant char destructions. It's not prident nor wose nor fair nor correct...coming from someone that has Poe but also has you exact Winner Team as well. So coming from where I am tou can rest assured I am not in this position just because I won't be able to Excel. I just fundamentaly stopped believing after all this.

    I think you didn't follow the context of the entire discussion I was having. The question was about the speed meta changing or not - essentially the other poster was arguing that now people will just use faster heroes than Poe and still just wipe everything away: Rey, GS/ Jinn lead, etc. My reply was the above test results vs. those kinds of teams with tankier heroes >14k health generally.

    Who said Sid wasn't counterable? Never said that. He's very counterable.

    Against AI which often do not focus fire or make accurate decisions and wasting heals due to bad programming does not make something good.

    It means the AI is bad.

    I have lost to aoe teams but I beat them

    Besides if poe can be beat without poe.

    Nerf was unnecessary especially with new speed change

    Agree with new speed change adjusting his speed was unnecessary.

    The part about the AI isn't relevant. That's what we play against. I don't disagree with your point, but that's the game.
  • CPMP
    974 posts Member
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    obiwan1011 wrote: »
    Ello_Asty wrote: »
    I still value your input and see that you are usually a logical person so I apologize for my hyperbole specifically regarding the "I told you so".

    Thanks.
    Ello_Asty wrote: »
    To me, this is the real problem with the game. Human nature to follow other humans resulting in cookie cutter builds. Oh, and defense AI. Really, you can usually only defend if your team is much better e.g. level 70 vs 65 toons or you can one-shot since the AI won't focus.

    My problem is I want a variety of characters and teams and can only work on a little bit at a time.

    I agree and have said it many times. I hate fighting against the same team over and over and over again - which has been Poe so far and may possibly be QGJ in the near future. The game desperately needs a place for other 50-60 characters to be truly successful and enjoyable.

    Looks like we share a common view. So why not stop bickering among ourselves when it is CG who is doing a head-scratching job at hero design and balancing? ;)

    Well your repeated attempts to insist it was the right move go severely nerf poe along with introduction of new speed changes suggests otherwise

    People have been clearly saying the nerf was unnecessary.

    U admitted to competing well with your own team without poe so why need to nerf poe so severely.

    Speed damage is killing diversity because tanks n slow toons are not competitive in arena. Reducing reliance on damage n speed would be good for diversity. Which u acknowledge.

    And you say this speed change which makes it worse is good and u suggest we should just jump onto QGJ bandwagon???

    You been actively dismissing genuine concerns and well thought out comments on why CG/EA did badly with this update n massive nerf with

    "U just want poe I win rng meta to stay"

    Which really makes me question your objectivity.

    There was no need to massively nerf poe like barriss.


    Poe was barely touched, he lost only "1" point of speed. Get over it already.
  • Nervi
    57 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    he's still the best arena character and the most impactful by far, only that now he's not absurdly broken,.

    edited
    Post edited by FashionFett on
  • Darkkram
    68 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I totally understand that the game needed to be balanced. I didn't like to use Poe, but you needed him to stay competitive (especially for F2P or people who don't spend huge amounts of money for this game).

    I also took the risk of spending all my cantina shipments on Poe. Now I still have a nice player, but I think he won't be very long in my arena squad.

    I have two ideas too compensate the Poe players a little bit:

    During Jedi Event it's possible to refresh cantina shipments for 100 crystals the first two times instead of only the first.

    Or

    Instead of energy refreshes at certain times a day you could temporarily give cantina energy refreshes for the period the yoda event is on.

  • Rolf wrote: »
    Just wow. So complete difference from the "official" post of two weeks ago. Very sad. All those resources wasted because we believed what was actually posted.

    I'm sorry, but "owning up to it" would be rolling him back to what you said you would do, or refunding all resources spent on him since the official patch notes preview.
    Rolf wrote: »
    Just wow. So complete difference from the "official" post of two weeks ago. Very sad. All those resources wasted because we believed what was actually posted.

    I'm sorry, but "owning up to it" would be rolling him back to what you said you would do, or refunding all resources spent on him since the official patch notes preview.

    +1... seriously.....
  • SpeedWeed wrote: »
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    Every time someone repeats the lie that the meta has changed from high speed and damage.

    The force kills a youngling.

    Please think of the younglings.

    If you move up in speed, so go past Poe, that team doesn't have the one hit knock out ability to take down tanks that have >14k health. That build needed a heavy hitting FOTP and a Poe with high expose to get the 20% inst-drop in health. The health steal implemented also completely helps slower toons more than fast, because fast toons are stealing health in their first turns when they are full; they get no benefit as a result. The slow toons actually get to refill their health bar with their response attacks. DoT killing now also impacts the fast / lower health toons to a greater extent as the DoT has a greater relative impact on their total health. I've had multiple Jinn / GS, etc. die at the start of round 2 as they start to take their action.

    I will believe it when I see it.

    This approach already worked around 60% before the change

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/8772/slow-dancing-with-poe-and-his-dps-minions-countering-poe-at-143-speed/p1

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/9732/slow-dancing-with-poe-follow-up/p1


    After the change today I haven't lost to a version of these speed teams yet: 9-0 now. If teams pull Poe completely out of the equation it gets much easier since I'm not contending with the 20% expose right off the top, which on Kylo is >3k health. Additionally, now that speed is natural in order, Sid always gets his aoe hit off. I don't have to worry about Poe leading the entire battle, Sid getting meter yanked + exposed and then being killed before he moves. The AI doesn't focus fire well so a fast team with initiative may kill one toon by the time it's my turn. That's ok because the really fast toons that go beyond Poe have pretty modest health. Just a few aoe hits and they are dead or near dead. Round 2 they are now really in trouble because the round 1 DoT's from Sid are sitting on them and they are getting killed by the DoTs.

    If I read this correctly you can win close to 100% against Poe and non Poe teams with just one team. And happy that an OP like Sid, the most used char in the game is non counterable. ChR with the best leadership abd that can land 5k per enemy max geared for 25k damage. I am glad you are happy! Great news for Arena.

    Btw I have ALL the chars in this team of you at 7*. I just don't like CG Play God. They should the chars evolve and stop doing their miraculous instant char destructions. It's not prident nor wose nor fair nor correct...coming from someone that has Poe but also has you exact Winner Team as well. So coming from where I am tou can rest assured I am not in this position just because I won't be able to Excel. I just fundamentaly stopped believing after all this.

    I think you didn't follow the context of the entire discussion I was having. The question was about the speed meta changing or not - essentially the other poster was arguing that now people will just use faster heroes than Poe and still just wipe everything away: Rey, GS/ Jinn lead, etc. My reply was the above test results vs. those kinds of teams with tankier heroes >14k health generally.

    Who said Sid wasn't counterable? Never said that. He's very counterable.

    You can't counter Sid massive AoE except 15% by wasting Dooku nor the dots (unless you bring a cleanser that nobody is using, as it's not helping you win). GS is not speedy anymore and has little synergy without Poe...you didn't fight high speed meta but if you think you did time will tell.

    One of the versions I was fighting had Sid on it - Jinn / GS / Rey as well. The server I'm on is highly competitive - it has speed team versions as good as you can possibly get. Go look at damage output vs. heroes that have high health. Sid's aoe without a crit on it isn't going to severely damage Kylo Ren sitting at near 16k health, same for Phasma and Snowtrooper. Even if Sid hits for 5k on a crit, Kylo's still there with 10k health. Not even under 50%. You mentioned you had all those AOE tanks too...try it yourself and report back. I will say though, you need the AOE skills on those heroes to at least be level 6 - ideally level 7. And they need max health / gear. I will have heroes dead in rd 1 - Sid will often get killed after hitting as he's low health. Once in a while they target Poggle - and if there is a focus fire by Jinn / GS both on their turns on Kylo he's dead - but I've won under those conditions also.

    If someone isn't using Poe to direct your damage - and using all >143 speed hitting above Poe, you can even start looking at assist tanks like 5s and Tusken Raider. GS is fast too along with Sid. You could do Phasma lead, 5s, Tusken, GS, and Kylo. GS will soften up any one speedy toon that will allow Kylo / Phasma to then kill it with AOE. 5s will soften up and slow stuff on counters and he assists also. Then tusken assists / counters. I haven't tested that yet - I need to promote my Tusken to 7* and skill up my 5s, but that should work very well against a Jinn leader / GS / Sid / Rey / Dooku...whatever other combo all speed type team if there is no Poe. Might even work ok vs. Poe too.
  • obiwan1011
    396 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    Well your repeated attempts to insist it was the right move go severely nerf poe along with introduction of new speed changes suggests otherwise

    Tell me, Mr. SpeedWeed. When did I say that? Please find me the quote because I don't recall ever saying such.

    For the last time, I have consistently stated that,

    1. Making his TM reduction resistible or increasing his TM reduction % per Resistance member in the team is perhaps the way to balance Poe since it is his ability to let an entire team go first is the problem and game-breaking
    2. He is probably nerfed too much, but still viable even after the nerf - fastest tank, non-resistible TM reduction and expose AOE, highest tenacity in the game, self-heal and a normal attack that can inflict offense down. No other tank has a repertoire of abilities that long
    3. I don't agree with the step-by-step nerf approach because people like you react violently to multiple nerfs (in the lines of "you nerfed him before and you are nerfing him again? #$%^&!")
    4. Too much damage and too much speed are the real problem
    5. I want to see more diversity in this game - which unfortunately, this game clearly lacks at the moment

    BTW, you are still evading my question: Do you think it is fair for an entire team to go first over the other? Don't say but, don't say new speed meta or whatever. Is it fair for an entire team to go first over the other? Yes or no?

    I think you were looking for someone to dump your frustration on, found me and started to make all these false accusations. So why not go away, chill out and come back? I never want Poe or any hero to be nerfed to oblivion.

  • Anyone who says Poe was not 100 out of 100 with only few other characters coming 90 and others 80 at the most in PvP is a noob. He was a must on a team. A must, means you level him with all you've got. Speed change was not announced, in fact, announcing only some trivial attribute change, made people believe that everything stays the same
  • I thought this company was of mature adults, who would ignore children bickering here, and do rational decisions. Why do you need to 'interact' with children? DEVELOPERS ARE GUILTY. This game is run by children themselves. Time to move on
  • I am only reading these forums because you guys are nuts. It is a video game. If you dont like it there are a million others.
  • My problem is not with Poe being nerfed. My problem is that I was getting my butt kicked by him and when I thought he wasn't being nerfed I spent 2 weeks getting him up to 6 stars and gearing him and using mats for his abilities that I could have been using for other toons in my arena team. I basically spent resources I would have normally used on my starting 5 to build a Poe for my team to counteract the other teams Poe. Poe should have been nerfed, but we should have been told he was being nerfed rather than putting our limited resources into a character just to keep from getting destroyed in arena.
  • Dvarik
    16 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    I, for one, appreciate the effort that is being made by the mods to communicate more with the players on the forums. I've been playing since early December and I think there has been efforts made to improve the game. I do think mistakes were made in the design of certain characters (like Poe, for example) but I am glad that there are some efforts made to at least address certain issues.

    The way the game is designed is somewhat like a trading card game or collectible miniatures game-- similar in some respects to Magic, Pokemon or WoTC's Star Wars Miniatures. If certain pieces in a collectible game is overpowered to the point where it's either run this piece or lose (Poe falls into this category) then it will kill the game in the medium to long term. WOTC bans cards in Magic all the time, pieces in the old Star Wars Miniatures were errated all the time. Does WOTC or Nintendo announce in advance when they ban a card that's killing the tournament scene? No, but players generally have a suspicion as to what may get banned because they see how disruptive certain cards are. Do players who bought those cards on the singles market go up in arms and ask for refunds? Also no. Does players threaten to quit player and leave tournaments, very few- the vast majority understand the need for erratas and nerfs so as it allows designers to experiment more and improves the state of the game. So I don't understand what the issue with CG and EA here is other than "I'm going to lose my advantage over other players in cantina tournaments now because my formerly broken game piece (which is still very dominant) is slightly less effective."

    I'm not a huge fan of EA in general and I have my issues with them (such as them screwing up and basically killing the KOTOR franchise) but in this particular instance, I don't think they're out of line.

    The thing is SWGoH is better run than most of EA games that are out. I do not understand where all the hostility is coming from. If you were go back and look at the old forum threads, you see people ranting and raving about how patch notes need to be shared, previews aren't enough, look at what other companies are doing, this and that. And I actually think the mods have been making an effort to improve communication and be more forthright- which again, can't be said for most EA games.

    I think Poe's overall design was a mistake, and no character should even be that crucial to cantina tournament success. The changes are a step in the right direction but still not enough. He still dominates the top 20 in basically all leadership boards, it is still either run Poe or lose to Poe. The speed difference is not particularly significant as he still gets off the taunt fast enough and it still usually becomes 5 on 3 shortly after he gets his taunt off for the other team.

    If anything I think the update is too cautious of an approach to rectify a bad character design and the meta is still monotonous and flawed. I think these changes are mostly superficial but still an incremental step in the right direction.
  • SpeedWeed wrote: »
    SpeedWeed wrote: »
    Every time someone repeats the lie that the meta has changed from high speed and damage.

    The force kills a youngling.

    Please think of the younglings.

    If you move up in speed, so go past Poe, that team doesn't have the one hit knock out ability to take down tanks that have >14k health. That build needed a heavy hitting FOTP and a Poe with high expose to get the 20% inst-drop in health. The health steal implemented also completely helps slower toons more than fast, because fast toons are stealing health in their first turns when they are full; they get no benefit as a result. The slow toons actually get to refill their health bar with their response attacks. DoT killing now also impacts the fast / lower health toons to a greater extent as the DoT has a greater relative impact on their total health. I've had multiple Jinn / GS, etc. die at the start of round 2 as they start to take their action.

    I will believe it when I see it.

    This approach already worked around 60% before the change

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/8772/slow-dancing-with-poe-and-his-dps-minions-countering-poe-at-143-speed/p1

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/9732/slow-dancing-with-poe-follow-up/p1


    After the change today I haven't lost to a version of these speed teams yet: 9-0 now. If teams pull Poe completely out of the equation it gets much easier since I'm not contending with the 20% expose right off the top, which on Kylo is >3k health. Additionally, now that speed is natural in order, Sid always gets his aoe hit off. I don't have to worry about Poe leading the entire battle, Sid getting meter yanked + exposed and then being killed before he moves. The AI doesn't focus fire well so a fast team with initiative may kill one toon by the time it's my turn. That's ok because the really fast toons that go beyond Poe have pretty modest health. Just a few aoe hits and they are dead or near dead. Round 2 they are now really in trouble because the round 1 DoT's from Sid are sitting on them and they are getting killed by the DoTs.

    If I read this correctly you can win close to 100% against Poe and non Poe teams with just one team. And happy that an OP like Sid, the most used char in the game is non counterable. ChR with the best leadership abd that can land 5k per enemy max geared for 25k damage. I am glad you are happy! Great news for Arena.

    Btw I have ALL the chars in this team of you at 7*. I just don't like CG Play God. They should the chars evolve and stop doing their miraculous instant char destructions. It's not prident nor wose nor fair nor correct...coming from someone that has Poe but also has you exact Winner Team as well. So coming from where I am tou can rest assured I am not in this position just because I won't be able to Excel. I just fundamentaly stopped believing after all this.

    I think you didn't follow the context of the entire discussion I was having. The question was about the speed meta changing or not - essentially the other poster was arguing that now people will just use faster heroes than Poe and still just wipe everything away: Rey, GS/ Jinn lead, etc. My reply was the above test results vs. those kinds of teams with tankier heroes >14k health generally.

    Who said Sid wasn't counterable? Never said that. He's very counterable.

    You can't counter Sid massive AoE except 15% by wasting Dooku nor the dots (unless you bring a cleanser that nobody is using, as it's not helping you win). GS is not speedy anymore and has little synergy without Poe...you didn't fight high speed meta but if you think you did time will tell.

    One of the versions I was fighting had Sid on it - Jinn / GS / Rey as well. The server I'm on is highly competitive - it has speed team versions as good as you can possibly get. Go look at damage output vs. heroes that have high health. Sid's aoe without a crit on it isn't going to severely damage Kylo Ren sitting at near 16k health, same for Phasma and Snowtrooper. Even if Sid hits for 5k on a crit, Kylo's still there with 10k health. Not even under 50%. You mentioned you had all those AOE tanks too...try it yourself and report back. I will say though, you need the AOE skills on those heroes to at least be level 6 - ideally level 7. And they need max health / gear. I will have heroes dead in rd 1 - Sid will often get killed after hitting as he's low health. Once in a while they target Poggle - and if there is a focus fire by Jinn / GS both on their turns on Kylo he's dead - but I've won under those conditions also.

    If someone isn't using Poe to direct your damage - and using all >143 speed hitting above Poe, you can even start looking at assist tanks like 5s and Tusken Raider. GS is fast too along with Sid. You could do Phasma lead, 5s, Tusken, GS, and Kylo. GS will soften up any one speedy toon that will allow Kylo / Phasma to then kill it with AOE. 5s will soften up and slow stuff on counters and he assists also. Then tusken assists / counters. I haven't tested that yet - I need to promote my Tusken to 7* and skill up my 5s, but that should work very well against a Jinn leader / GS / Sid / Rey / Dooku...whatever other combo all speed type team if there is no Poe. Might even work ok vs. Poe too.

    Maybe speed doesn't turn to be the best. It seems so. I'd try it out but I have deleted the gane entirely - so I can't. I was missing a few abikity mats but imagined exactly what you described essentially - but with maybe IG-88 which was rendered useless.
  • Dvarik wrote: »
    I, for one, appreciate the effort that is being made by the mods to communicate more with the players on the forums. I've been playing since early December and I think there has been efforts made to improve the game. I do think mistakes were made in the design of certain characters (like Poe, for example) but I am glad that there are some efforts made to at least address certain issues.

    The way the game is designed is somewhat like a trading card game or collectible miniatures game-- similar in some respects to Magic, Pokemon or WoTC's Star Wars Miniatures. If certain pieces in a collectible game is overpowered to the point where it's either run this piece or lose (Poe falls into this category) then it will kill the game in the medium to long term. WOTC bans cards in Magic all the time, pieces in the old Star Wars Miniatures were errated all the time. Does WOTC or Nintendo announce in advance when they ban a card that's killing the tournament scene? No, but players generally have a suspicion as to what may get banned because they see how disruptive certain cards are. Do players who bought those cards on the singles market go up in arms and ask for refunds? Also no. Does players threaten to quit player and leave tournaments, very few- the vast majority understand the need for erratas and nerfs so as it allows designers to experiment more and improves the state of the game. So I don't understand what the issue with CG and EA here is other than "I'm going to lose my advantage over other players in cantina tournaments now because my formerly broken game piece (which is still very dominant) is slightly less effective."

    I'm not a huge fan of EA in general and I have my issues with them (such as them screwing up and basically killing the KOTOR franchise) but in this particular instance, I don't think they're out of line.

    The thing is SWGoH is better run than most of EA games that are out. I do not understand where all the hostility is coming from. If you were go back and look at the old forum threads, you see people ranting and raving about how patch notes need to be shared, previews aren't enough, look at what other companies are doing, this and that. And I actually think the mods have been making an effort to improve communication and be more forthright- which again, can't be said for most EA games.

    I think Poe's overall design was a mistake, and no character should even be that crucial to cantina tournament success. The changes are a step in the right direction but still not enough. He still dominates the top 20 in basically all leadership boards, it is still either run Poe or lose to Poe. The speed difference is not particularly significant as he still gets off the taunt fast enough and it still usually becomes 5 on 3 shortly after he gets his taunt off for the other team.

    If anything I think the update is too cautious of an approach to rectify a bad character design and the meta is still monotonous and flawed. I think these changes are mostly superficial but still an incremental step in the right direction.

    I am so glad...I won't be here long enough to read posts like this. We switched from Poe (maybe, maybe) going first and winning to, using the right chars go LAST. And you still don't notice it.
  • Tomek wrote: »
    My first char was Daka from cantina. I collected additinal 30 shards when QGJ was sent to cantina . I had QGJ as first additional char in the game lotted from the card. 2 stars , it was time to remove him from the team near 60l but a surprise - shards in cantina. I stopped Daka and decided to spent additional 100 diamonds every day for farm QGJ to seventh star (never done it before).
    Why not Poe ? It was clear , poe like before update was no sense. The char with taunt is tank . Tank can not be fast (it is strange to nerf him only -1 speed SHOULD BE MORE!!!!) but he should be slow but full of health and other buffs for longering own life. Second; I prefere balanced team instead of play with weak Tie pilot which will be killed at once in first strike if taunt will not safe him.
    QGJ was my solution for Poe's taunt and Lesser's replacer in the team. I am lucky , I had correct sight from the begining.
    I am glad Poe was balanced. It is first step I hope and we will se next with additional speed down. When I will max my QGJ I will continue Daka , next I will think , but will it be Poe ? I do not know.

    "I chose to farm Daka and QGJ... I don't care about those who paid for him or farmed him.. I'm a homer"

    I bet you were loud about how OP he was huh?

    Thanks for proving my point.
  • MenaceTEC wrote: »
    Gurley30 wrote: »
    The Poe nerf was not in the patch notes?????????

    The WHOLE point of releasing patch notes is that this game requires an immense amount of time and planning!

    So when you release the patch notes you are signaling to people HOW they can plan!

    I dumped ALL my Cantina Resources into Poe based off of information YOU gave us! This is unbelievable - I spent MONEY on this and now it gets pulled out from under us without notice! Worse yet- it was pulled out from under us with a FALSE PRETENSE

    I am done with this game if I don't get my cantina shipments back that I spent over the last 7 days on this character. This is unbelievable

    You will never get any refunds for anything. For over a month they only paid me out 400 green gems for the entire galactic war, and it should have been 1200! So conservativly they owed me at least 40,000 (it also shorted me $ & shards but I couldn't prove it with screen shots) & it was a huge set back after I'd invested hard earned money. The real kind. They never reimbursed me a dime even after I proved the scenario with screen shots. They're straight up bandits. Unfortunately you can't invest trust in these people & since I've just stopped investing hard cash like I was before. They should be reported to consumer affairs; electronic property is still property.

    When Apple sees a flood of requests for the same reason it will be noticed. How many hundreds of refunds have been requested in the past hour?

    Nah... Nobody complaining has a leg to stand on since they agree to game changes in the TOS. You live you learn. This game is a dangerous combination. They use your love for Star Wars; your ego, & boredom against you & suddenly your addicted. You just gotta lay off the pipe a bit & things come back into perspective.

    Umm lay off the pipe? That accusing those you don't agree with to being drug addicts?

    Thank you for making my point... You must be under the age of 12.
  • Don't let the door hit you on your way out. I think a silent majority of players would rather have a diverse meta at max level than one where 20% of any competitive team must have a single given character and the match ends in basically 1, maybe 2 turns.
    I am so glad...I won't be here long enough to read posts like this. We switched from Poe (maybe, maybe) going first and winning to, using the right chars go LAST. And you still don't notice it.

  • MenaceTEC
    670 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Just so everyone knows I got a email from EA themselves which directed me how to get a refund.
  • I like the speed change. It'll provide more strategy on team synergy, you'll know exactly what your team action order will be.

    Even seeing the change to speed, a nerf was still needed for Poe. No other character has as much impact as poe did with just using one ability.

    I just started getting shards for poe recently after finishing old daka, currently @ 35/50 with Poe, and will continue to complete him because I think he is still that good.
  • MenaceTEC
    670 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    poeson wrote: »
    I like the speed change. It'll provide more strategy on team synergy, you'll know exactly what your team action order will be.

    Even seeing the change to speed, a nerf was still needed for Poe. No other character has as much impact as poe did with just using one ability.

    I just started getting shards for poe recently after finishing old daka, currently @ 35/50 with Poe, and will continue to complete him because I think he is still that good.


    How can you even propose to know what other characters do. Do you have all of them max gear seven stars?

    Cause if not your comparing them to a character fully starred lvld and geared.


    So many comments here are shortsighted and don't take in to account anyone else's experience.

  • poeson
    14 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    MenaceTEC wrote: »
    poeson wrote: »
    I like the speed change. It'll provide more strategy on team synergy, you'll know exactly what your team action order will be.

    Even seeing the change to speed, a nerf was still needed for Poe. No other character has as much impact as poe did with just using one ability.

    I just started getting shards for poe recently after finishing old daka, currently @ 35/50 with Poe, and will continue to complete him because I think he is still that good.


    How can you even propose to know what other characters do. Do you have all of them max gear seven stars?

    Cause if not your comparing them to a character fully starred lvld and geared.


    So many comments here are shortsighted and don't take in to account anyone else's experience.

    What shortsighted comment? Are you saying a Poe didn't* have enough impact to warrant a nerf? Or are you saying your won't know your team's action order?

    hint: higher speed goes first.

    I don't have all characters maxed but this site does:

    http://www.swgohcantina.com/character-max-stats/



  • poeson wrote: »
    MenaceTEC wrote: »
    poeson wrote: »
    I like the speed change. It'll provide more strategy on team synergy, you'll know exactly what your team action order will be.

    Even seeing the change to speed, a nerf was still needed for Poe. No other character has as much impact as poe did with just using one ability.

    I just started getting shards for poe recently after finishing old daka, currently @ 35/50 with Poe, and will continue to complete him because I think he is still that good.


    How can you even propose to know what other characters do. Do you have all of them max gear seven stars?

    Cause if not your comparing them to a character fully starred lvld and geared.


    So many comments here are shortsighted and don't take in to account anyone else's experience.

    What shortsighted comment? Are you saying a Poe didn't* have enough impact to warrant a nerf? Or are you saying your won't know your team's action order?

    hint: higher speed goes first.

    I don't have all characters maxed but this site does:

    http://www.swgohcantina.com/character-max-stats/



    A non maxed Poe was not 143 speed. Therefor his impact was not felt the same way.

    There is a lot of detail given to this debate over the past weeks. Its important to understand all of it if your discussing meta.

    No one had tried all combinations vs Poe. He was just one character that drew the hate of everyone who didn't have him. Even though he's FTP.
  • I am only reading these forums because you guys are nuts. It is a video game. If you dont like it there are a million others.
    Its just comments, move on then
  • What about Arena? Have you seen what they have done to it? To each his own, don't like it, call Apple, demand refund. I liked the game just before the update, and have adjusted throughout. I had paid $300 just before update to signal my appreciation. I don't like the update. Bait and switch. Call Apple, get refund, like it after, buy again
  • This thread really should be locked.
  • This thread really should be locked.

    Yes, don't let people voice their opinions.
This discussion has been closed.