Character Strategy: Obi-Wan Kenobi (Old Ben)

Replies

  • Jamesm
    863 posts Member
    Pyrefly wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »

    So
    *Dispels taunt
    *fracture prevents second taunt

    When fracture goes away it allows the second taunt to appear. This would fit with both descriptions. I think its a visual bug that wouldn't happen in thrawn was not alone. Maybe I'm wrong though.
    What you're missing is that the taunt is reapplied immediately after it's been dispelled, which is before Fracture is applied, which means that Fracture doesn't block it.

    Except you cant have a buff with fracture. But nothing in the ability description says this is a special kind of taunt. Like i said i may be wrong.
  • They keep trying to tell us but some of us are not getting the message:
    "You must play Rebels. If not, you are playing wrong, and you will lose."

    Sadly, that is what I got out of this rework as well. I was pumped that Jedi might be getting another taunter since I don't have GK yet and the only other option is Kanan, who is slower than dirt and only really makes a good tank when he's getting covered with dots.

    All I saw when I looked at the rework though was that one of the most iconic Jedi now has more synergy with rebels than Jedi. Kind of lame...but oh well...maybe Jedi will be getting some reworks soon.

    Old Ben spent more time with rebels than Jedi. And this is the kind of rework we've always wanted. Iconic characters should be more powerful than support cast or generic and they are finally doing it. And in the case of Luke, he was the "first" character to have 6 abilities and 3 zetas. He won't be the last.
  • Totodoro wrote: »
    He's as much of a rebel as commander Luke is a jedi (they aren't).
    What makes a rebel? Jedi is a clearly defined order with specific rules for entry. But as far as I can tell, a Rebel is anyone willing to fight the empire in cooperation with other Rebels. If Ben isnt a Rebel, then Stormtroop Han absolutely isnt a rebel because at that time he was basically a mercenary looking for a payday.
    Totodoro wrote: »
    Second, I don't get the jedi synergies, since this version of Obi-Wan has only encountered one jedi in his time
    So? Jedi are highly trained and disciplined people. Yoda was able to successfully train Luke, and he'd been living in a swamp for the last couple decades.
    Totodoro wrote: »
    and never helped Ezra in any battles (same aplies for the rebelion).
    But this is a recurring problem with the tag system in general. Many characters (like your various Rebels, or BHs, or scoundrels) have zero relation to each other and yet they share tag synergy. While others like Clones & Galactic Republic Jedi constantly work side by side, and the only synergy they get is weak JKA and GK leadership inclusion.
    (Dex Corso in game. Formerly Til Dais)
  • Jamesm
    863 posts Member
    Pyrefly wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »

    You obviously don't get what I'm saying. I may be wrong but you might be too.
    When Fracture is used, the order would be:
    • 1a: Dispel taunt.
    • 1b: Taunt immediately reapplies.
    • 2: Fracture is applied, blocking further buffs.
    • 3: Damage is applied.

    Its still an assumption that the taunt would reapply before fracture and not after.
  • Brownie
    298 posts Member
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Cardiff0 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    So it looks like if old ben has taunt and is fractured he will be taunting while fractured.

    This contradicts fracture because fracture means you cant gain buffs

    I don't disagree but since dispel happens first before fracture with the way things currently work he could have taunt with fracture.

    Every see b2 dispel stealth from sith with maul lead and put up buff immunity?
    the sith gains buff immunity and advantage at the same time. This is same situation
    1. dispel buff(s)
    2. opponet responds to the dispelled buff(s)
    3. debuff that prevents gaining buffs is applied
    4. damage is done

    To prevent the uproar and thousands of bug or is this WAI posts they just need to change Thrawn ability to apply fracture first then dispel.

    I figured this was the case but why wouldn't Savage or Biggs have buffs while Fractured? Why wouldnt a factured sith under Zaul have stealth occasionally?

    They already said the gif was a bad example to use. I dont think hell be taunting during fracture. I'm guessing what happened was taunt-fractur (which dispels taunt)- Thrawns tm fills up since hes alone-fracture goes away triggering second taunt

    I know, I saw what Kozi said, was just getting more info from Scuba. But watch the gif closely, Ben has BOTH taunt and Fracture at the same time. Forget everything else. I use Thrawn all the time and I have never seen a toon with a buff and Fracture at the same time.

    I think its just happeneing to fast since thrawns alone. Just my opinion though. I dont think taunt will be there in a full team. Well see though.

    Its not happening too fast. Do you use Thrawn? If you do, you will notice no buffs exist along side Fracture. Period. The taunt persists during Fracture and then stays once Fracture expires. You can see Thrawns TM in the upper right corner. Anyway, none of this matters.

    Its either a bug they didn't catch and will fix it before deploying another gif or its WAI.

    I do in fact but when have you ever run thrawn alone. Its a combination of thrawn being alone and a toon that gains a buff as fraxture expires which is why it looks weird.

    lol, go play a solo match in any area with Thrawn vs Savage, or Thrawn vs Biggs, or Thrawn vs Zaul. I am willing to bet NONE of them gain a buff during Fracture. Slow the video down and watch. I bet you never see a buff. If I paused this gif, you would clearly see both Fracture and Taunt. This would not happen with any of the previous toons I mentioned.

    You are definitely correct. The issue here I think is the order of events. Let's compare the Thrawn vs Savage and Thrawn vs Old Ben. The key here - you are assuming that Thrawn's ability can be interrupted mid-attack.
    "Deal Special damage to target enemy 4 times, dispel all buffs on them, remove 50% Turn Meter, and inflict Fracture until the start of Thrawn's next turn"

    If you break this down in order:
    1) Deal special damage 4 times
    2) Dispel all buffs
    3) remove 50% TM
    4) Inflict Fracture

    With Savage:
    1) Deal special damage 4 times - Savage will gain a number of buffs
    2) Dispel all buffs - all buffs are gone from Savage
    3) Remove 50% TM - Savage loses TM (this isnt damage being dealt)
    4) Fracture - Savage has fracture
    This is why Savage doesn't have a buff when fracture is used.

    With the new Old Ben
    1) Deal special damage 4 times - nothing
    2) Dispel all buffs - Taunt is removed from Ben, but Ben now regains it based on the conditions of his special
    3) remove 50% TM - Ben loses 50% TM
    4) Inflict Fracture
    Ben has taunt for 1 turn (instead of 2) and fracture at the same time.

    So characters like Savage and Biggs gain buffs as a result of DAMAGE, which is the first thing that seems to happen based on the wording of the ability. the dispel happens after, so the buffs are gone. Old Ben actually gets the Taunt back as a RESULT of the dispel, so this happens before the fracture applies.

    I can't say if this was the intended action, but that is what is happening and why it is different from Savage and Biggs. Just have to wait to see what Kozi says, but since could be intended as a counter to Thrawn's Fracture, and then it would be WAI based on the order of events as described in Thrawn's ability.

    You do realize that the order written in the ability is not the order things happen in game?
    The order of operations for fracture are
    1. Dispel
    2. Fracture
    3. deal damage 4 times.
    https://swgoh.gg/characters/grand-admiral-thrawn/ability/fracture

    So
    *Dispels taunt
    *fracture prevents second taunt

    When fracture goes away it allows the second taunt to appear. This would fit with both descriptions. I think its a visual bug that wouldn't happen in thrawn was not alone. Maybe I'm wrong though.

    LOL NO...The taunt would still be there with Fracture up in this case. Because the second taunt doesn't get dispelled and is on Ben before the Fracture applies.

    I dont know whats so complicated about this...

    You obviously don't get what I'm saying. I may be wrong but you might be too.

    I 100% get what you are saying and I can tell you, with 100% confidence, you are incorrect.

    If the Fracture prevented the second taunt, it would NEVER appear. Buffs don't magically appear on someone after buff immunity wears off.

    Are you just making up a whole new game with your own rules? Seems like it...

    Its also NOT a visual bug...I repeat, NOT a visual bug...
  • Pyrefly
    1254 posts Member
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Except you cant have a buff with fracture. But nothing in the ability description says this is a special kind of taunt. Like i said i may be wrong.
    Most people think that you can't have a buff with Fracture because the ability both dispels and blocks. But there's a super-narrow window there between the dispel and the block where, in this situation, taunt is reapplied.
    swgoh.gg profile: Pyrefly -- Check out my Galactic Power Tables and my TB Phase Info Tables !!
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Pyrefly wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »

    So
    *Dispels taunt
    *fracture prevents second taunt

    When fracture goes away it allows the second taunt to appear. This would fit with both descriptions. I think its a visual bug that wouldn't happen in thrawn was not alone. Maybe I'm wrong though.
    What you're missing is that the taunt is reapplied immediately after it's been dispelled, which is before Fracture is applied, which means that Fracture doesn't block it.

    Except you cant have a buff with fracture. But nothing in the ability description says this is a special kind of taunt. Like i said i may be wrong.

    It's not that you can't have a buff with fracture, it's that you can't gain a buff, but say that buff happened before fracture.. like an in between, then you'd have a buff but couldn't gain more.

    This would end up meaning that B2 would dispel taunt, he'd gain taunt, then gain buff immunity too
  • Brownie
    298 posts Member
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Pyrefly wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »

    So
    *Dispels taunt
    *fracture prevents second taunt

    When fracture goes away it allows the second taunt to appear. This would fit with both descriptions. I think its a visual bug that wouldn't happen in thrawn was not alone. Maybe I'm wrong though.
    What you're missing is that the taunt is reapplied immediately after it's been dispelled, which is before Fracture is applied, which means that Fracture doesn't block it.

    Except you cant have a buff with fracture. But nothing in the ability description says this is a special kind of taunt. Like i said i may be wrong.

    I'll just clear this up now, you are wrong...
  • Kozispoon
    3245 posts EA Staff (retired)
    Gif updated!
    Thank you for your patience 8D Forum Guidelines
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    If any of you play magic the gathering, you'd understand mechanics of the stack. Dispel caused OB's ability to add to the stack, thus applying taunt, then next goes fracture, then goes damage.

    1. Dispel
    2. Taunt
    3. Fracture
    4. Damage

    Or if you'd prefer
    1. Dispel
    1.5. Taunt
    2. Fracture
    3. Damage
  • Finity
    309 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Pyrefly wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »

    You obviously don't get what I'm saying. I may be wrong but you might be too.
    When Fracture is used, the order would be:
    • 1a: Dispel taunt.
    • 1b: Taunt immediately reapplies.
    • 2: Fracture is applied, blocking further buffs.
    • 3: Damage is applied.

    Its still an assumption that the taunt would reapply before fracture and not after.

    No, it isn't. That is the way the mechanic is executed. Old Ben is putting up taunt as a result of the dispel and before fracture is applied. The question is whether or not this is the way they want Old Ben to work. This is fixed, as scuba has said, by making the Fracture debuff applied first. We don't know if they want it to work that way or not, but as currently constituted, the explanation is how it works.
    Love SWGOH and want to keep it great! YouTube: Reality Skewed Gamers
  • Pyrefly
    1254 posts Member
    Jamesm wrote: »

    Its still an assumption that the taunt would reapply before fracture and not after.
    That's the way the ability is described, and that's what the gif shows, so... not too much of an assumption, I'd say.
    swgoh.gg profile: Pyrefly -- Check out my Galactic Power Tables and my TB Phase Info Tables !!
  • Brownie
    298 posts Member
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Pyrefly wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »

    You obviously don't get what I'm saying. I may be wrong but you might be too.
    When Fracture is used, the order would be:
    • 1a: Dispel taunt.
    • 1b: Taunt immediately reapplies.
    • 2: Fracture is applied, blocking further buffs.
    • 3: Damage is applied.

    Its still an assumption that the taunt would reapply before fracture and not after.

    It may be an assumption but its an educated assumption (and one made by one of the most knowledgeable players on this forum), because IF it applied AFTER fracture, it would get BLOCKED and thus it wouldn't appear at all.....
  • Pyrefly
    1254 posts Member
    Finity wrote: »

    No, it isn't. That is the way the mechanic is executed. Old Ben is putting up taunt as a result of the dispel and before fracture is applied. The question is whether or not this is the way they want Old Ben to work. This is fixed, as scuba has said, by making the Fracture debuff applied first. We don't know if they want it to work that way or not, but as currently constituted, the explanation is how it works.
    Indeed. Fracture debuff, then dispel, then damage, and all this becomes a moot point.
    swgoh.gg profile: Pyrefly -- Check out my Galactic Power Tables and my TB Phase Info Tables !!
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    Well darn, the very fact that they cleared this up with a non Thrawn gif, looks like no second taunt is applied with fracture
  • Whazn
    262 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Cardiff0 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    So it looks like if old ben has taunt and is fractured he will be taunting while fractured.

    This contradicts fracture because fracture means you cant gain buffs

    I don't disagree but since dispel happens first before fracture with the way things currently work he could have taunt with fracture.

    Every see b2 dispel stealth from sith with maul lead and put up buff immunity?
    the sith gains buff immunity and advantage at the same time. This is same situation
    1. dispel buff(s)
    2. opponet responds to the dispelled buff(s)
    3. debuff that prevents gaining buffs is applied
    4. damage is done

    To prevent the uproar and thousands of bug or is this WAI posts they just need to change Thrawn ability to apply fracture first then dispel.

    I figured this was the case but why wouldn't Savage or Biggs have buffs while Fractured? Why wouldnt a factured sith under Zaul have stealth occasionally?

    They already said the gif was a bad example to use. I dont think hell be taunting during fracture. I'm guessing what happened was taunt-fractur (which dispels taunt)- Thrawns tm fills up since hes alone-fracture goes away triggering second taunt

    I know, I saw what Kozi said, was just getting more info from Scuba. But watch the gif closely, Ben has BOTH taunt and Fracture at the same time. Forget everything else. I use Thrawn all the time and I have never seen a toon with a buff and Fracture at the same time.

    I think its just happeneing to fast since thrawns alone. Just my opinion though. I dont think taunt will be there in a full team. Well see though.

    Its not happening too fast. Do you use Thrawn? If you do, you will notice no buffs exist along side Fracture. Period. The taunt persists during Fracture and then stays once Fracture expires. You can see Thrawns TM in the upper right corner. Anyway, none of this matters.

    Its either a bug they didn't catch and will fix it before deploying another gif or its WAI.

    I do in fact but when have you ever run thrawn alone. Its a combination of thrawn being alone and a toon that gains a buff as fraxture expires which is why it looks weird.

    lol, go play a solo match in any area with Thrawn vs Savage, or Thrawn vs Biggs, or Thrawn vs Zaul. I am willing to bet NONE of them gain a buff during Fracture. Slow the video down and watch. I bet you never see a buff. If I paused this gif, you would clearly see both Fracture and Taunt. This would not happen with any of the previous toons I mentioned.

    You are definitely correct. The issue here I think is the order of events. Let's compare the Thrawn vs Savage and Thrawn vs Old Ben. The key here - you are assuming that Thrawn's ability can be interrupted mid-attack.
    "Deal Special damage to target enemy 4 times, dispel all buffs on them, remove 50% Turn Meter, and inflict Fracture until the start of Thrawn's next turn"

    If you break this down in order:
    1) Deal special damage 4 times
    2) Dispel all buffs
    3) remove 50% TM
    4) Inflict Fracture

    With Savage:
    1) Deal special damage 4 times - Savage will gain a number of buffs
    2) Dispel all buffs - all buffs are gone from Savage
    3) Remove 50% TM - Savage loses TM (this isnt damage being dealt)
    4) Fracture - Savage has fracture
    This is why Savage doesn't have a buff when fracture is used.

    With the new Old Ben
    1) Deal special damage 4 times - nothing
    2) Dispel all buffs - Taunt is removed from Ben, but Ben now regains it based on the conditions of his special
    3) remove 50% TM - Ben loses 50% TM
    4) Inflict Fracture
    Ben has taunt for 1 turn (instead of 2) and fracture at the same time.

    So characters like Savage and Biggs gain buffs as a result of DAMAGE, which is the first thing that seems to happen based on the wording of the ability. the dispel happens after, so the buffs are gone. Old Ben actually gets the Taunt back as a RESULT of the dispel, so this happens before the fracture applies.

    I can't say if this was the intended action, but that is what is happening and why it is different from Savage and Biggs. Just have to wait to see what Kozi says, but since could be intended as a counter to Thrawn's Fracture, and then it would be WAI based on the order of events as described in Thrawn's ability.

    You do realize that the order written in the ability is not the order things happen in game?
    The order of operations for fracture are
    1. Dispel
    2. Fracture
    3. deal damage 4 times.
    https://swgoh.gg/characters/grand-admiral-thrawn/ability/fracture

    I get that but look at b2
    https://swgoh.gg/characters/b2-super-battle-droid/
    His order says-
    Dispel
    Apply ability block
    Damage

    But Sith get stealth from zaul when b2 crits.

    Inconsistent no?
  • Brownie
    298 posts Member
    Gif updated!

    Thanks but that didn't really solve the Thrawn issue lol
  • Smapty
    1260 posts Member
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...
  • Kozispoon
    3245 posts EA Staff (retired)
    Magilla262 wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The description for the new version of "If You Strike Me Down" says that Old (Reinvigorated) Ben gets 5% Turn Meter "Whenever another Jedi or Rebel ally takes damage..."

    Does that count double if the ally is both? I.e. Does he gain 10% when Ezra and Kanan get hit?

    Does it count for damage he receives (and does it count twice for him as well)?

    Does it count for each hit the ally receives? I.e. If Fulcrum hits Ezra 5x does Old (R) Ben get 100% TM? If TM gains per hit, any chance that other characters who hit do damage multiple times will be counted correctly (I'm looking at you Rey)?
    • As radical as that would be, Jedi and Rebel units do not count twice.
    • Old Ben taking damage does not count
    • It does however count for each hit the ally receives.
    Thank you for your patience 8D Forum Guidelines
  • Gif updated!

    Does Old Ben taunt through fracture now?
    Empire Relic
  • Gif updated!

    @CG_Kozispoon with all due respect, cat is already out of the bag. The new gif only shows us what Ben does when a typical dispeller hit him. It gives zero clarification as to what was happening with the Thrawn interaction, and whether that was intended, a bug, or even still how the ability works.
    (Dex Corso in game. Formerly Til Dais)
  • Finity
    309 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    Whazn wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Cardiff0 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    So it looks like if old ben has taunt and is fractured he will be taunting while fractured.

    This contradicts fracture because fracture means you cant gain buffs

    I don't disagree but since dispel happens first before fracture with the way things currently work he could have taunt with fracture.

    Every see b2 dispel stealth from sith with maul lead and put up buff immunity?
    the sith gains buff immunity and advantage at the same time. This is same situation
    1. dispel buff(s)
    2. opponet responds to the dispelled buff(s)
    3. debuff that prevents gaining buffs is applied
    4. damage is done

    To prevent the uproar and thousands of bug or is this WAI posts they just need to change Thrawn ability to apply fracture first then dispel.

    I figured this was the case but why wouldn't Savage or Biggs have buffs while Fractured? Why wouldnt a factured sith under Zaul have stealth occasionally?

    They already said the gif was a bad example to use. I dont think hell be taunting during fracture. I'm guessing what happened was taunt-fractur (which dispels taunt)- Thrawns tm fills up since hes alone-fracture goes away triggering second taunt

    I know, I saw what Kozi said, was just getting more info from Scuba. But watch the gif closely, Ben has BOTH taunt and Fracture at the same time. Forget everything else. I use Thrawn all the time and I have never seen a toon with a buff and Fracture at the same time.

    I think its just happeneing to fast since thrawns alone. Just my opinion though. I dont think taunt will be there in a full team. Well see though.

    Its not happening too fast. Do you use Thrawn? If you do, you will notice no buffs exist along side Fracture. Period. The taunt persists during Fracture and then stays once Fracture expires. You can see Thrawns TM in the upper right corner. Anyway, none of this matters.

    Its either a bug they didn't catch and will fix it before deploying another gif or its WAI.

    I do in fact but when have you ever run thrawn alone. Its a combination of thrawn being alone and a toon that gains a buff as fraxture expires which is why it looks weird.

    lol, go play a solo match in any area with Thrawn vs Savage, or Thrawn vs Biggs, or Thrawn vs Zaul. I am willing to bet NONE of them gain a buff during Fracture. Slow the video down and watch. I bet you never see a buff. If I paused this gif, you would clearly see both Fracture and Taunt. This would not happen with any of the previous toons I mentioned.

    You are definitely correct. The issue here I think is the order of events. Let's compare the Thrawn vs Savage and Thrawn vs Old Ben. The key here - you are assuming that Thrawn's ability can be interrupted mid-attack.
    "Deal Special damage to target enemy 4 times, dispel all buffs on them, remove 50% Turn Meter, and inflict Fracture until the start of Thrawn's next turn"

    If you break this down in order:
    1) Deal special damage 4 times
    2) Dispel all buffs
    3) remove 50% TM
    4) Inflict Fracture

    With Savage:
    1) Deal special damage 4 times - Savage will gain a number of buffs
    2) Dispel all buffs - all buffs are gone from Savage
    3) Remove 50% TM - Savage loses TM (this isnt damage being dealt)
    4) Fracture - Savage has fracture
    This is why Savage doesn't have a buff when fracture is used.

    With the new Old Ben
    1) Deal special damage 4 times - nothing
    2) Dispel all buffs - Taunt is removed from Ben, but Ben now regains it based on the conditions of his special
    3) remove 50% TM - Ben loses 50% TM
    4) Inflict Fracture
    Ben has taunt for 1 turn (instead of 2) and fracture at the same time.

    So characters like Savage and Biggs gain buffs as a result of DAMAGE, which is the first thing that seems to happen based on the wording of the ability. the dispel happens after, so the buffs are gone. Old Ben actually gets the Taunt back as a RESULT of the dispel, so this happens before the fracture applies.

    I can't say if this was the intended action, but that is what is happening and why it is different from Savage and Biggs. Just have to wait to see what Kozi says, but since could be intended as a counter to Thrawn's Fracture, and then it would be WAI based on the order of events as described in Thrawn's ability.

    You do realize that the order written in the ability is not the order things happen in game?
    The order of operations for fracture are
    1. Dispel
    2. Fracture
    3. deal damage 4 times.
    https://swgoh.gg/characters/grand-admiral-thrawn/ability/fracture

    I get that but look at b2
    https://swgoh.gg/characters/b2-super-battle-droid/
    His order says-
    Dispel
    Apply ability block
    Damage

    But Sith get stealth from zaul when b2 crits.

    Inconsistent no?

    Are you sure the Sith have stealth and not Advantage? It is likely they have Advantage as a result of this, not stealth due to the lead mechanics on the expiration of stealth. Especially since the B2 ability itself says Buff Immunity is "applied before damage". Buff Immunity is only a 65% chance as well, not 100% like Thrawn, so you might want to make sure they have buff immunity as well, otherwise they will regain stealth on crit damage at the end
    Love SWGOH and want to keep it great! YouTube: Reality Skewed Gamers
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    Whazn wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Cardiff0 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    So it looks like if old ben has taunt and is fractured he will be taunting while fractured.

    This contradicts fracture because fracture means you cant gain buffs

    I don't disagree but since dispel happens first before fracture with the way things currently work he could have taunt with fracture.

    Every see b2 dispel stealth from sith with maul lead and put up buff immunity?
    the sith gains buff immunity and advantage at the same time. This is same situation
    1. dispel buff(s)
    2. opponet responds to the dispelled buff(s)
    3. debuff that prevents gaining buffs is applied
    4. damage is done

    To prevent the uproar and thousands of bug or is this WAI posts they just need to change Thrawn ability to apply fracture first then dispel.

    I figured this was the case but why wouldn't Savage or Biggs have buffs while Fractured? Why wouldnt a factured sith under Zaul have stealth occasionally?

    They already said the gif was a bad example to use. I dont think hell be taunting during fracture. I'm guessing what happened was taunt-fractur (which dispels taunt)- Thrawns tm fills up since hes alone-fracture goes away triggering second taunt

    I know, I saw what Kozi said, was just getting more info from Scuba. But watch the gif closely, Ben has BOTH taunt and Fracture at the same time. Forget everything else. I use Thrawn all the time and I have never seen a toon with a buff and Fracture at the same time.

    I think its just happeneing to fast since thrawns alone. Just my opinion though. I dont think taunt will be there in a full team. Well see though.

    Its not happening too fast. Do you use Thrawn? If you do, you will notice no buffs exist along side Fracture. Period. The taunt persists during Fracture and then stays once Fracture expires. You can see Thrawns TM in the upper right corner. Anyway, none of this matters.

    Its either a bug they didn't catch and will fix it before deploying another gif or its WAI.

    I do in fact but when have you ever run thrawn alone. Its a combination of thrawn being alone and a toon that gains a buff as fraxture expires which is why it looks weird.

    lol, go play a solo match in any area with Thrawn vs Savage, or Thrawn vs Biggs, or Thrawn vs Zaul. I am willing to bet NONE of them gain a buff during Fracture. Slow the video down and watch. I bet you never see a buff. If I paused this gif, you would clearly see both Fracture and Taunt. This would not happen with any of the previous toons I mentioned.

    You are definitely correct. The issue here I think is the order of events. Let's compare the Thrawn vs Savage and Thrawn vs Old Ben. The key here - you are assuming that Thrawn's ability can be interrupted mid-attack.
    "Deal Special damage to target enemy 4 times, dispel all buffs on them, remove 50% Turn Meter, and inflict Fracture until the start of Thrawn's next turn"

    If you break this down in order:
    1) Deal special damage 4 times
    2) Dispel all buffs
    3) remove 50% TM
    4) Inflict Fracture

    With Savage:
    1) Deal special damage 4 times - Savage will gain a number of buffs
    2) Dispel all buffs - all buffs are gone from Savage
    3) Remove 50% TM - Savage loses TM (this isnt damage being dealt)
    4) Fracture - Savage has fracture
    This is why Savage doesn't have a buff when fracture is used.

    With the new Old Ben
    1) Deal special damage 4 times - nothing
    2) Dispel all buffs - Taunt is removed from Ben, but Ben now regains it based on the conditions of his special
    3) remove 50% TM - Ben loses 50% TM
    4) Inflict Fracture
    Ben has taunt for 1 turn (instead of 2) and fracture at the same time.

    So characters like Savage and Biggs gain buffs as a result of DAMAGE, which is the first thing that seems to happen based on the wording of the ability. the dispel happens after, so the buffs are gone. Old Ben actually gets the Taunt back as a RESULT of the dispel, so this happens before the fracture applies.

    I can't say if this was the intended action, but that is what is happening and why it is different from Savage and Biggs. Just have to wait to see what Kozi says, but since could be intended as a counter to Thrawn's Fracture, and then it would be WAI based on the order of events as described in Thrawn's ability.

    You do realize that the order written in the ability is not the order things happen in game?
    The order of operations for fracture are
    1. Dispel
    2. Fracture
    3. deal damage 4 times.
    https://swgoh.gg/characters/grand-admiral-thrawn/ability/fracture

    I get that but look at b2
    https://swgoh.gg/characters/b2-super-battle-droid/
    His order says-
    Dispel
    Apply ability block
    Damage

    But Sith get stealth from zaul when b2 crits.

    Inconsistent no?

    Remember, swgoh.gg is not directly affiliated with CG. What's on their site isn't always accurate
  • Finity
    309 posts Member
    Ender22 wrote: »
    Whazn wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Jamesm wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Cardiff0 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    So it looks like if old ben has taunt and is fractured he will be taunting while fractured.

    This contradicts fracture because fracture means you cant gain buffs

    I don't disagree but since dispel happens first before fracture with the way things currently work he could have taunt with fracture.

    Every see b2 dispel stealth from sith with maul lead and put up buff immunity?
    the sith gains buff immunity and advantage at the same time. This is same situation
    1. dispel buff(s)
    2. opponet responds to the dispelled buff(s)
    3. debuff that prevents gaining buffs is applied
    4. damage is done

    To prevent the uproar and thousands of bug or is this WAI posts they just need to change Thrawn ability to apply fracture first then dispel.

    I figured this was the case but why wouldn't Savage or Biggs have buffs while Fractured? Why wouldnt a factured sith under Zaul have stealth occasionally?

    They already said the gif was a bad example to use. I dont think hell be taunting during fracture. I'm guessing what happened was taunt-fractur (which dispels taunt)- Thrawns tm fills up since hes alone-fracture goes away triggering second taunt

    I know, I saw what Kozi said, was just getting more info from Scuba. But watch the gif closely, Ben has BOTH taunt and Fracture at the same time. Forget everything else. I use Thrawn all the time and I have never seen a toon with a buff and Fracture at the same time.

    I think its just happeneing to fast since thrawns alone. Just my opinion though. I dont think taunt will be there in a full team. Well see though.

    Its not happening too fast. Do you use Thrawn? If you do, you will notice no buffs exist along side Fracture. Period. The taunt persists during Fracture and then stays once Fracture expires. You can see Thrawns TM in the upper right corner. Anyway, none of this matters.

    Its either a bug they didn't catch and will fix it before deploying another gif or its WAI.

    I do in fact but when have you ever run thrawn alone. Its a combination of thrawn being alone and a toon that gains a buff as fraxture expires which is why it looks weird.

    lol, go play a solo match in any area with Thrawn vs Savage, or Thrawn vs Biggs, or Thrawn vs Zaul. I am willing to bet NONE of them gain a buff during Fracture. Slow the video down and watch. I bet you never see a buff. If I paused this gif, you would clearly see both Fracture and Taunt. This would not happen with any of the previous toons I mentioned.

    You are definitely correct. The issue here I think is the order of events. Let's compare the Thrawn vs Savage and Thrawn vs Old Ben. The key here - you are assuming that Thrawn's ability can be interrupted mid-attack.
    "Deal Special damage to target enemy 4 times, dispel all buffs on them, remove 50% Turn Meter, and inflict Fracture until the start of Thrawn's next turn"

    If you break this down in order:
    1) Deal special damage 4 times
    2) Dispel all buffs
    3) remove 50% TM
    4) Inflict Fracture

    With Savage:
    1) Deal special damage 4 times - Savage will gain a number of buffs
    2) Dispel all buffs - all buffs are gone from Savage
    3) Remove 50% TM - Savage loses TM (this isnt damage being dealt)
    4) Fracture - Savage has fracture
    This is why Savage doesn't have a buff when fracture is used.

    With the new Old Ben
    1) Deal special damage 4 times - nothing
    2) Dispel all buffs - Taunt is removed from Ben, but Ben now regains it based on the conditions of his special
    3) remove 50% TM - Ben loses 50% TM
    4) Inflict Fracture
    Ben has taunt for 1 turn (instead of 2) and fracture at the same time.

    So characters like Savage and Biggs gain buffs as a result of DAMAGE, which is the first thing that seems to happen based on the wording of the ability. the dispel happens after, so the buffs are gone. Old Ben actually gets the Taunt back as a RESULT of the dispel, so this happens before the fracture applies.

    I can't say if this was the intended action, but that is what is happening and why it is different from Savage and Biggs. Just have to wait to see what Kozi says, but since could be intended as a counter to Thrawn's Fracture, and then it would be WAI based on the order of events as described in Thrawn's ability.

    You do realize that the order written in the ability is not the order things happen in game?
    The order of operations for fracture are
    1. Dispel
    2. Fracture
    3. deal damage 4 times.
    https://swgoh.gg/characters/grand-admiral-thrawn/ability/fracture

    I get that but look at b2
    https://swgoh.gg/characters/b2-super-battle-droid/
    His order says-
    Dispel
    Apply ability block
    Damage

    But Sith get stealth from zaul when b2 crits.

    Inconsistent no?

    Remember, swgoh.gg is not directly affiliated with CG. What's on their site isn't always accurate

    I was looking at the same thing too. B2 ability itself this time says Buff Immunity is applied before damage. They might need to add a similar clarification on Thrawn.
    Love SWGOH and want to keep it great! YouTube: Reality Skewed Gamers
  • Kozispoon
    3245 posts EA Staff (retired)
    edited August 2017
    Smapty wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...

    Old Ben's Zeta Taunt should last 1 turn through Fracture.
    The old gif just wasn't clear that Thrawn immediately started another turn and dispelled Fracture.
    Thank you for your patience 8D Forum Guidelines
  • Nice!
    https://swgoh.gg/u/speedokillz/

    December 2016 Arena Shard
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    Smapty wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...

    Old Ben's Zeta Taunt should last 1 turn through Fracture.
    The gif just wasn't clear that Thrawn immediately started another turn and dispelled Fracture.

    One point for Ben!!!
  • Smapty wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...

    Old Ben's Zeta Taunt should last 1 turn through Fracture.
    The old gif just wasn't clear that Thrawn immediately started another turn and dispelled Fracture.

    So WAI and makes 100% sense based on the facts presented in the mechanics that taunt is reapplied before fracture and buff immunity.
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    Before you all say, well, Thrawn is useless now.. this reduces taunts duration by 2 turns! Dispel one more time or wait out a turn and then devastate the rest of the team.
  • Smapty
    1260 posts Member
    Smapty wrote: »
    @CG_Kozispoon

    The ultimate question is this... what half the posts in this thread have addressed or speculated on so far...

    Will Old Ben still be taunting while fractured? (Considering it breaks his initial taunt)

    Regardless of the scenario? Like if anyone other than Thrawn moves immediately after he applies the fracture to Old Ben?

    It could potentially bring a big advantage to his taunt in arena or otherwise...

    Old Ben's Zeta Taunt should last 1 turn through Fracture.
    The old gif just wasn't clear that Thrawn immediately started another turn and dispelled Fracture.

    This is awesome!

    Thank you for the response :)
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