PSA: Speed Down does NOT affect the toppled tank.

So I have been researching resistance like mad lately trying to make the leap to being a HAAT guild and I keep seeing people say to make sure to try to drop speed down on the tank with Resistance trooper before topple to maximize DPS.

I'm sorry, but that is poor advice. Speed down doesn't affect the toppled tank.

I tested repeatedly at various speeds with my Jawa Engineer trying to sync recalibrate to topple. I ended up syncing it so Jawa Engineer would finish his 3rd turn immediately before topple ends. This is making sure that the tank is always toppled by the raid assist from Jawa Engineer in 1 turn so their meters are perfectly synced and I get the Morale speed boost. Now recalibrate gives 45% tm so he basically gains 300% + 45% tm in the time it takes the tank to gain 100% tm.

Speed down is -25% speed. Since we're only dealing with 1 turn that makes this easy. If speed down worked, then in the time that I gain 300% tm, he will have gained 75%tm (100-25). That means that with a speed down I would gain 100% tm for every 25% tm the tank gains. To put it another way, if speed down worked on the tank, I would gain 400% + 45% tm when the tank gained 100% tm.

But guess what? My Jawa Engineer ALWAYS takes ONLY 3 turns inside of topple UNLESS he topples with a turn meter over half full.

It is impossible that he would only take 3 turns inside of topple if speed down affected the tank. So now you all know and can stop spreading bad advice. Thanks for your time.

Replies

  • Waqui
    5359 posts Member
    edited October 2017
    Old news, but yes, many outdated guides and videos mistakenly state that speed down is important during toppling. Some even mention defense down as being important even though your own buffs already make your team ignore all of the tank's defense.
  • Arg... I've been following guides that said this ..

    Does it work on rancor at least ?
  • Cab description in the détails Clearly say that the cab is imune to gauge reduction
  • Kyno
    20760 posts Moderator
    Moved to correct sub forum.
  • gohabsgo wrote: »
    Cab description in the détails Clearly say that the cab is imune to gauge reduction

    Decreasing speed is not the same as TM reduction
  • Now I will say there is some consideration on dropping a speed down on the tank if you are running bb8 with resistance as it lowers illuminated destiny's cooldown and allows the buff to propagate to Resistance Trooper naturally, but then you are giving up more potential tm gain from Trooper's expose as well. So that is a balancing act meant to be dealt with by far more knowledgeable resistance runners than I (for now anyways). The point of this post is more to clarify exactly what you are balancing, and it is illuminated destiny cooldown vs another expose, not another expose vs a reduction in the tank's speed.

    Without BB8, you're almost certainly better off just not dropping resistance trooper's special attack ever.
  • I. I did not know this...

    How many times have I fought to put a speed down on the thing... thinking it would help with the invariable bad rng?

    Guess I owe you a beer @Woodroward ... Maybe two. Arigatou.
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • Since I still see people offering this advice, I am bumping this thread.
  • TVF
    13573 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Now I will say there is some consideration on dropping a speed down on the tank if you are running bb8 with resistance as it lowers illuminated destiny's cooldown and allows the buff to propagate to Resistance Trooper naturally, but then you are giving up more potential tm gain from Trooper's expose as well. So that is a balancing act meant to be dealt with by far more knowledgeable resistance runners than I (for now anyways). The point of this post is more to clarify exactly what you are balancing, and it is illuminated destiny cooldown vs another expose, not another expose vs a reduction in the tank's speed.

    Caveats - I'm new to using resistance in NAAT, and my guild isn't quite HAAT ready yet (almost), and I'm using R2 because my BB8 is only 5 star.

    With that said, I find it worth using RTs special on the tank prior to topple, in order to increase the amount of time it spends toppled. Typically I try to do it when there's already an expose on the main tank so that you're still getting the benefit from hitting an expose, which helps mitigate the fact that you're not generating a new one. Ideally there are exposes on the turrets as well and you can pop all those at once with R2 anyway.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Woodroward
    3385 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    TVF wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Now I will say there is some consideration on dropping a speed down on the tank if you are running bb8 with resistance as it lowers illuminated destiny's cooldown and allows the buff to propagate to Resistance Trooper naturally, but then you are giving up more potential tm gain from Trooper's expose as well. So that is a balancing act meant to be dealt with by far more knowledgeable resistance runners than I (for now anyways). The point of this post is more to clarify exactly what you are balancing, and it is illuminated destiny cooldown vs another expose, not another expose vs a reduction in the tank's speed.

    Caveats - I'm new to using resistance in NAAT, and my guild isn't quite HAAT ready yet (almost), and I'm using R2 because my BB8 is only 5 star.

    With that said, I find it worth using RTs special on the tank prior to topple, in order to increase the amount of time it spends toppled. Typically I try to do it when there's already an expose on the main tank so that you're still getting the benefit from hitting an expose, which helps mitigate the fact that you're not generating a new one. Ideally there are exposes on the turrets as well and you can pop all those at once with R2 anyway.


    ... the whole point of this thread is to show how I have used math and repeated testing to prove with 100% certainty that speed down doesn't make the topple last even a smidgen longer. You are just getting better RNG on exposes when it lasts longer, hence more tm gain, and a longer topple. You didn't slow the tank at all..

    Actually, you may have even shortened the topple by not dropping an expose and getting more tm gain for everyone...
  • Woodroward wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Now I will say there is some consideration on dropping a speed down on the tank if you are running bb8 with resistance as it lowers illuminated destiny's cooldown and allows the buff to propagate to Resistance Trooper naturally, but then you are giving up more potential tm gain from Trooper's expose as well. So that is a balancing act meant to be dealt with by far more knowledgeable resistance runners than I (for now anyways). The point of this post is more to clarify exactly what you are balancing, and it is illuminated destiny cooldown vs another expose, not another expose vs a reduction in the tank's speed.

    Caveats - I'm new to using resistance in NAAT, and my guild isn't quite HAAT ready yet (almost), and I'm using R2 because my BB8 is only 5 star.

    With that said, I find it worth using RTs special on the tank prior to topple, in order to increase the amount of time it spends toppled. Typically I try to do it when there's already an expose on the main tank so that you're still getting the benefit from hitting an expose, which helps mitigate the fact that you're not generating a new one. Ideally there are exposes on the turrets as well and you can pop all those at once with R2 anyway.


    ... the whole point of this thread is to show how I have used math and repeated testing to prove with 100% certainty that speed down doesn't make the topple last even a smidgen longer. You are just getting better RNG on exposes when it lasts longer, hence more tm gain, and a longer topple. You didn't slow the tank at all...

    The problem is, you used math and testing. Two things some forum posters ignore.
  • Nebulous wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Woodroward wrote: »
    Now I will say there is some consideration on dropping a speed down on the tank if you are running bb8 with resistance as it lowers illuminated destiny's cooldown and allows the buff to propagate to Resistance Trooper naturally, but then you are giving up more potential tm gain from Trooper's expose as well. So that is a balancing act meant to be dealt with by far more knowledgeable resistance runners than I (for now anyways). The point of this post is more to clarify exactly what you are balancing, and it is illuminated destiny cooldown vs another expose, not another expose vs a reduction in the tank's speed.

    Caveats - I'm new to using resistance in NAAT, and my guild isn't quite HAAT ready yet (almost), and I'm using R2 because my BB8 is only 5 star.

    With that said, I find it worth using RTs special on the tank prior to topple, in order to increase the amount of time it spends toppled. Typically I try to do it when there's already an expose on the main tank so that you're still getting the benefit from hitting an expose, which helps mitigate the fact that you're not generating a new one. Ideally there are exposes on the turrets as well and you can pop all those at once with R2 anyway.


    ... the whole point of this thread is to show how I have used math and repeated testing to prove with 100% certainty that speed down doesn't make the topple last even a smidgen longer. You are just getting better RNG on exposes when it lasts longer, hence more tm gain, and a longer topple. You didn't slow the tank at all...

    The problem is, you used math and testing. Two things some forum posters ignore.

    lol. Ain't that the truth?
  • TVF
    13573 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    Well to be fair to me I didn't actually read the whole thread...or even the OP. I mean, I did read the OP when you first posted it, but I wasn't using Res at that point. At any rate, my bad, and thanks for the info!
    Nebulous wrote: »
    The problem is, you used math and testing. Two things some forum posters ignore.

    Of course, some forum posters make a simple mistake and then apologize for it.

    Hi there!
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Well to be fair to me I didn't actually read the whole thread...or even the OP. I mean, I did read the OP when you first posted it, but I wasn't using Res at that point. At any rate, my bad, and thanks for the info!
    Nebulous wrote: »
    The problem is, you used math and testing. Two things some forum posters ignore.

    Of course, some forum posters make a simple mistake and then apologize for it.

    Hi there!

    lol. You're welcome.
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