Territory War Ties [Merged]

Replies

  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    I would prefer ties to that. If defensive points happened I would probably just set defensive squads and skip offensive phase.

    Then you will lose.
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    I personally don't like the defensive points idea. I enjoy using characters I like. Most of those aren't that good. Under this point system. Your not going to use lesser characters because you'll give opposition points. The best part of tw is being able to use your whole roster.

    You would still use your whole roster to win. If beating a team takes 2 tries then you lost one point, to gain 10. If that's what it takes to finish a territory that will give you 700 more points you're not going to skip out on doing anything that risks a loss.

    And besides, you would have MORE incentive to upgrade a variety of toons if they actually need to be good so you could finish an opponent with 2 teams instead of 5-6 scrap teams for example.

    And you drastically overestimate the perverse incentive to put all your good teams on defense. If your favorite/strongest toons are on defense you're going to lose, and give up banners. You need a balance of strong defense teams that can get a few wins on defense, and strong teams that can win efficiency on offense. You are imagining a non-existent problem, and not giving any proof of why it's a concern.

    And to add to this great response to Proxima, you wouldn’t be the only one losing points for letting the defense win. They would be too. It’s equal opportunity points here. Just more incentive to be better than the other
  • Ironman
    17 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    Tie here aswell. When u have more or less unlimeted attacks but limeted defence units and the AI works as a 5 year old. I think it will be the way it goes most times.

    If they ad reinforcement to the defence it could help or maybe even a phase where u can retake lost territory.

    Like TW. But seem a little as wasted work to get a 2nd Price for a tie
  • Not everyone tied apparently.
    sBrICdQ.jpg
  • Saraleb
    2070 posts Member
    Been lots of chat that if its a tie (there are lots of them) then both guilds should take 1st rewards

    But then got me thinking... this is massively open to manipulation.. what would stop guilds contacting each other soon as you saw your opponent and designing top pay out for each guild ? Wouldnt exactly be hard to do and would make the whole event a sham

    Tied and getting 2nd rewards each at least gives incentive.. although for most guilds not sure how a tie isnt inevitable excluding the odd bug ive heard about
  • Not everyone tied apparently.
    sBrICdQ.jpg

    Because rewards are based on GP

    Screenshot_20171201-113019.png
  • Just poking fun.

    If youre not first, youre last.
  • Exactly my thoughts, it'd be incredibly easy just to contact the other guild and coordinate a tie
  • Defensive points idea is crap. I don’t want to spend an extra 5 hours organizing 50 people to play perfect combos in order to win one more zeta and a few more currency. Just up the gp necessary on defense squads and let both teams get first place for clearing the board for guilds over 100 mil.
  • Yeah. They need a better tie-breaker, but otherwise I like that ties result in low rewards for both.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    Themy wrote: »
    Defensive points idea is ****. I don’t want to spend an extra 5 hours organizing 50 people to play perfect combos in order to win one more zeta and a few more currency. Just up the gp necessary on defense squads and let both teams get first place for clearing the board for guilds over 100 mil.

    Then you don’t want real competition. And that’s ok, take second place if you don’t want to win
  • How do I sell this gamemode to someone I want to start playing? This game has guild vs guild but a tie means you lose
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    Never mind on this ;)
  • 7AnimalMother
    1493 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    Not everyone tied apparently.
    sBrICdQ.jpg

    There were also several teams who got bugged losses, and lost by mathmatically impossible 10 banners on dual full clears.

    Also if your opponents wanted to troll you in the future, they could just set Solo cups, jkg, etc on defense and have ALL of their good teams available for offense. Pretty sure this would force a tie.
  • Upon further thinking, I think a better solution than defensive win banners, are a bonus to offensive win banners if you have five living toons at the end of the battle. Basically a flawless win grants you +1 or +2 banners only if you have five surviving characters.

    This removes the disincentive from using weaker teams to chip at a strong team (or burn ability cooldowns), or from risking a loss. But still provides a tiebreaker slush in the whole TW. It also provides an incentive to carefully plan an attack with the intent of sweeping the enemy team.
  • Mzee
    1679 posts Member
    Ties are a joke and you get second place rewards is even worse.
    In olympics two people tie for gold. They both get gold

    Giving both guilds the victory rewards is too open to abuse. Guilds will just make deals with each other and put weak defensive teams.
  • Manowar
    288 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    I have a couple of new ideas. We don't want anything that involves a lot more time invested, but we need something to soak up more damage on offense. It would be better to tune everything harder across the board, so you have fewer people winning. I am not addressing the tie-breaker issue in this post.

    What if some PvE play were introduced into the TW to soak up offense teams? I'm thinking like a mini raid or a additional squad of defensive toons. Guilds could have unlockable champions or squads that could be arrayed anywhere on the battlefield. Cooldowns until enrage would be very low compared to normal raids.

    For instance:
    - Guild purchases an AAT for guild coins and places it in area 8
    - Individual guild members hire a mercenary clone or droid squad to place where they choose
    - Guild unlocks a Rancor to set against troops in area 2....

    Another option is to give buffs for defensive squads. But instead of a straight stat boost, the player setting defensive squads could choose from a list of buffs to apply to their team.

    For instance:
    - apply +5 speed to all squad members
    - apply +20% crit damage to all squad members
    - apply 10% base health to all squad members

    Either of these options will allow powerful guilds to have a better balance between offense/defense and reduce the chances for a tie.
  • I would prefer ties to that. If defensive points happened I would probably just set defensive squads and skip offensive phase.
    Ender22 wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    I would prefer ties to that. If defensive points happened I would probably just set defensive squads and skip offensive phase.

    But if the defensive win points were worth much less points than the offensive wins, you would lose. That would be bad strategy

    I just meant me personally. I would fill defense squads. I don't want to just play meta toons against meta toons. W do enough of that already.
  • Tied. Underwhelming.
  • JacenRoe wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    I would prefer ties to that. If defensive points happened I would probably just set defensive squads and skip offensive phase.

    Then you will lose.
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    I personally don't like the defensive points idea. I enjoy using characters I like. Most of those aren't that good. Under this point system. Your not going to use lesser characters because you'll give opposition points. The best part of tw is being able to use your whole roster.

    You would still use your whole roster to win. If beating a team takes 2 tries then you lost one point, to gain 10. If that's what it takes to finish a territory that will give you 700 more points you're not going to skip out on doing anything that risks a loss.

    And besides, you would have MORE incentive to upgrade a variety of toons if they actually need to be good so you could finish an opponent with 2 teams instead of 5-6 scrap teams for example.

    And you drastically overestimate the perverse incentive to put all your good teams on defense. If your favorite/strongest toons are on defense you're going to lose, and give up banners. You need a balance of strong defense teams that can get a few wins on defense, and strong teams that can win efficiency on offense. You are imagining a non-existent problem, and not giving any proof of why it's a concern.

    I never said they were junk toons. For instance my geonosians can take baze out but probably won't win the entire fight. So now I'm being penalized. Basically all the fun is gone if you can't strategically take out squads. Why have those toons.
  • So my Guild has already submitted a ticket but we “lost” because of a glitch that didn’t reward offensive tickets for beating a squad. I’m sure EA “help” will be oh so helpful....but better to let the devs know who will actually do something to fix the issue (no sarcasm)

    But for the event itself it was fun. Not too long at all, and required fun coordination. However there’s far to many instances where once the bugs get sorted out, for ties. It’s been stated many times before but i think the best solution is to offer a point for a successful defense or a point for a clear in one try. Something along those lines so guilds don’t constantly tie and get second place rewards.

    Overall I liked it. My guild likes it too, except the whole bug thing giving us a “loss”. MUCH better than darkside TB though haha
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    I would prefer ties to that. If defensive points happened I would probably just set defensive squads and skip offensive phase.

    Then you will lose.
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    I personally don't like the defensive points idea. I enjoy using characters I like. Most of those aren't that good. Under this point system. Your not going to use lesser characters because you'll give opposition points. The best part of tw is being able to use your whole roster.

    You would still use your whole roster to win. If beating a team takes 2 tries then you lost one point, to gain 10. If that's what it takes to finish a territory that will give you 700 more points you're not going to skip out on doing anything that risks a loss.

    And besides, you would have MORE incentive to upgrade a variety of toons if they actually need to be good so you could finish an opponent with 2 teams instead of 5-6 scrap teams for example.

    And you drastically overestimate the perverse incentive to put all your good teams on defense. If your favorite/strongest toons are on defense you're going to lose, and give up banners. You need a balance of strong defense teams that can get a few wins on defense, and strong teams that can win efficiency on offense. You are imagining a non-existent problem, and not giving any proof of why it's a concern.

    I never said they were junk toons. For instance my geonosians can take baze out but probably won't win the entire fight. So now I'm being penalized. Basically all the fun is gone if you can't strategically take out squads. Why have those toons.

    The strategy becomes making sacrifices at the right moment better than the way your opponent makes sacrifices. You’d have to decide if that sacrifice was worth it or determine a better solution
  • Kurgen
    207 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    Not sure how you tie for second place when there is no winner..... in every other competition you would tie for first....this is like saying that the 8 people with equal top scores in guild activities should be ranked 8th and not first.... stupid!

    Otherwise was a bit of fun....
  • simple. If a Guild hits the maximum point available in a TW, they should automatically get the 1st place reward. because, it's either they win or they will have a draw. The Guild can't loose.

    What do you think ?
  • Manowar
    288 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    Ender22 wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    I would prefer ties to that. If defensive points happened I would probably just set defensive squads and skip offensive phase.

    Then you will lose.
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    I personally don't like the defensive points idea. I enjoy using characters I like. Most of those aren't that good. Under this point system. Your not going to use lesser characters because you'll give opposition points. The best part of tw is being able to use your whole roster.

    You would still use your whole roster to win. If beating a team takes 2 tries then you lost one point, to gain 10. If that's what it takes to finish a territory that will give you 700 more points you're not going to skip out on doing anything that risks a loss.

    And besides, you would have MORE incentive to upgrade a variety of toons if they actually need to be good so you could finish an opponent with 2 teams instead of 5-6 scrap teams for example.

    And you drastically overestimate the perverse incentive to put all your good teams on defense. If your favorite/strongest toons are on defense you're going to lose, and give up banners. You need a balance of strong defense teams that can get a few wins on defense, and strong teams that can win efficiency on offense. You are imagining a non-existent problem, and not giving any proof of why it's a concern.

    I never said they were junk toons. For instance my geonosians can take baze out but probably won't win the entire fight. So now I'm being penalized. Basically all the fun is gone if you can't strategically take out squads. Why have those toons.

    The strategy becomes making sacrifices at the right moment better than the way your opponent makes sacrifices. You’d have to decide if that sacrifice was worth it or determine a better solution

    So what you are advocating for is a devaluation of non-meta toons, as if the gap between meta and garbage toons isn't big enough already.

    That is what points for losses does: reward meta toons and penalizes weak toons.
  • if you run a race and finnish at the exact same time. both finish First not 2nd.....
  • Fredy5 wrote: »
    if you run a race and finnish at the exact same time. both finish First not 2nd.....

    This is a race that the 2 participants can easily agree to tie on purpose so they both get the rewards. Both getting 2nd place is the only way to protect the integrity of GW.


    RWTD_Burn - Bears with Sabers
    https://swgoh.gg/u/rwtdBurn/
  • Manowar wrote: »
    Ender22 wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    I would prefer ties to that. If defensive points happened I would probably just set defensive squads and skip offensive phase.

    Then you will lose.
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    I personally don't like the defensive points idea. I enjoy using characters I like. Most of those aren't that good. Under this point system. Your not going to use lesser characters because you'll give opposition points. The best part of tw is being able to use your whole roster.

    You would still use your whole roster to win. If beating a team takes 2 tries then you lost one point, to gain 10. If that's what it takes to finish a territory that will give you 700 more points you're not going to skip out on doing anything that risks a loss.

    And besides, you would have MORE incentive to upgrade a variety of toons if they actually need to be good so you could finish an opponent with 2 teams instead of 5-6 scrap teams for example.

    And you drastically overestimate the perverse incentive to put all your good teams on defense. If your favorite/strongest toons are on defense you're going to lose, and give up banners. You need a balance of strong defense teams that can get a few wins on defense, and strong teams that can win efficiency on offense. You are imagining a non-existent problem, and not giving any proof of why it's a concern.

    I never said they were junk toons. For instance my geonosians can take baze out but probably won't win the entire fight. So now I'm being penalized. Basically all the fun is gone if you can't strategically take out squads. Why have those toons.

    The strategy becomes making sacrifices at the right moment better than the way your opponent makes sacrifices. You’d have to decide if that sacrifice was worth it or determine a better solution

    So what you are advocating for is a devaluation of non-meta toons, as if the gap between meta and garbage toons isn't big enough already.

    That is what points for losses does: reward meta toons and penalizes weak toons.

    New name meta wars.
  • RWTD_Burn
    130 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    Ties are the symptom, not the problem with TW. The problem is that it's too easy to conquer the entire map. It's only going to occur more and more often as they release new characters and the number of attacking teams we can create grows while the number of defending teams we can set remains the same. The max number of defending teams per territory has to be increased. Ideally there would be a scaling system that increases each cap from 25 to 30 around the GP 100M mark, then increases from 30 to 35 around the GP 115M to 120M range.

    If the defensive cap remains as is, all of the strategy involved in setting up your defenses in specific territories is irrelevant as we will be able to wipe out all of the defending teams any. It might as well just be 1 massive territory that we dump every defending team into. Points for defensive stands; depreciating point values for victories over weakened defensive teams; and fastest conquering of the map will fix the ties but it won't fix the issue of there being no tactical value in where you deploy your best defending teams. Conquering the entire map for 2 evenly matched teams should be near impossible so that the choices in what territories to defend heavily and which ones to attack have value and consequences when you fail.
    RWTD_Burn - Bears with Sabers
    https://swgoh.gg/u/rwtdBurn/
  • Hi all, any thoughts on tie breakers for territory wars? I read a lot of different ideas and I thought mobile gamer had the best one. The guild that clears the other guild's territory first wins the tie breaker.
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