Territory War Ties [Merged]

Replies

  • War
    932 posts Member
    yossgold wrote: »
    War wrote: »
    This is bad idea that would put favor on trying to find cheesy defense teams, rather than keeping to the strategy of finding the just right team to beat

    Are there really that many cheesy defense teams you can put up without sacrificing offense and losing the defensive banners you gain on offense? This isn’t arena, you don’t have to pick 5 toons to build one squad. That’s how you one up your opponent, you manage to hold more on defense while still being able to clear them on offense. Remember that most of the best defensive teams in the game have legendary toons that are needed to beat those teams when you meet them on the other side. So how you balance, where you place what and how lucky you are with which path the opposing guild chooses to take are the deciders, not just if you can clear each other’s maps you shake hands and never win. Most ppl want to play to win because it’s most definitely not for the rewards ;)

    Also, did the fact that you don’t get banners for holding on D make that those teams weren’t deployed? We met all of them man, every Zarris, CLS, Chaze or other meta team was on the map, so adding a bonus for holding wouldn’t change anything. There will still be meta D teams and there will still be a lot of crazy comps you’ll use to beat the fodder teams.

    Oh, and to someone who’s competitive (which is why ppl are generally **** about the draws because it isn’t that extra zeta), a coin toss does nothing. You want to earn your win using superior strategy, not win an extra zeta on a coin toss.

    You seem to have missed the parts where I explained TW would become an awful all day long experience if this change occurred. From a competitive person's view point, sure. Spend all day glued to your device paying attention to the banners to make sure it's safe to risk attacks, and in the end no ties. You earned that first place, but at the cost of fun. A foreign concept in this game, I know.

    TW as it is now is fun! Seriously. I had a lot of fun using teams I hadn't used since tournament days. This suggested change might prevent ties, and a small part of the population would find it more fun. The reason I say small, is because TW is tournaments 2.0. Tournaments failed for being all day time sinks for rewards that did not match time spent. Nevertheless, there was a part of the game population that disliked tourneys being removed.

    This change would certainly make the competitive players that loved original tourneys happy, but that's a small part of the game's population. The majority of the game's pop does not want all day game modes for small rewards like 1 zeta. A mode where you jump in with your entire roster to beat teams and take territories is exactly what people want. Short and sweet, with small but good rewards.

    I have no time for stuff like that. I only ever made time to win a single tourney. A grueling 24 hours to hold rank for the prize I wanted. I would be one of the many players, if this change were to occur, to just set all my best characters on defense and call it good. Let the players with time and patience for nonsense like that play the offense portion of the mode.

    We should implement some kind of tie breaker, but not by ruining the fun of TW. Competition and competitive spirit is important, but so is fun. Something this game has been lacking on for awhile.
  • I said for a 1 on 1 fight to decide but also they can put a capture the flag aspect were u capture and area like a fight against a creature tank something or even ship by capturing it it boosts the guilds who capture it defense. The catch is the other can go back and capture it back. This would require some strategy cause if u plan on capturing it back those are attacks u lose. U can have more than one. No ties this way
  • Skittlesnacks1
    209 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    +1 The rewards were poorly thought out and need an immediate fix, as having everyone get 2nd place rewards is just dumb beyond words.

    Not to mention cheap. The difference isn't that great for EA to decide everyone gets the lower reward instead of everyone getting 1st place rewards.

    But hey, it wouldn't be the same company without slapping its customers square in the face at every given opportunity.
  • Did any guild who put their best 4 teams in defence have a draw?

    Most guilds were pretty conservative about holding teams back for attacking.
    That's not the best strategy. You should put your very best teams on Defence and then try and win with your tier 2 teams.

    Team Instinct managed to stop a 132m GP guild from clearing their table.

    Let's give it a few more Territory Wars to see if it's still an issue.
  • yossgold
    62 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    War wrote: »

    You seem to have missed the parts where I explained TW would become an awful all day long experience if this change occurred. From a competitive person's view point, sure. Spend all day glued to your device paying attention to the banners to make sure it's safe to risk attacks, and in the end no ties. You earned that first place, but at the cost of fun. A foreign concept in this game, I know.

    TW as it is now is fun! Seriously. I had a lot of fun using teams I hadn't used since tournament days. This suggested change might prevent ties, and a small part of the population would find it more fun. The reason I say small, is because TW is tournaments 2.0. Tournaments failed for being all day time sinks for rewards that did not match time spent. Nevertheless, there was a part of the game population that disliked tourneys being removed.

    This change would certainly make the competitive players that loved original tourneys happy, but that's a small part of the game's population. The majority of the game's pop does not want all day game modes for small rewards like 1 zeta. A mode where you jump in with your entire roster to beat teams and take territories is exactly what people want. Short and sweet, with small but good rewards.

    I have no time for stuff like that. I only ever made time to win a single tourney. A grueling 24 hours to hold rank for the prize I wanted. I would be one of the many players, if this change were to occur, to just set all my best characters on defense and call it good. Let the players with time and patience for nonsense like that play the offense portion of the mode.

    We should implement some kind of tie breaker, but not by ruining the fun of TW. Competition and competitive spirit is important, but so is fun. Something this game has been lacking on for awhile.

    I’m can assure you that if there are no ways to avoid draws, fun TW as it is will be an afterthought before you can say Jack Robinson. I’ve already seen loads of chatter everywhere about ppl saying that since there’s no win or lose, there’s also no reason to even think about defense. Since you can more or less assume that your map is going to be cleared no matter what your defensive strategy is (and you can assume that), just put the minimum 6K per node (which is one toon), leave your whole roster for offense and be done with it as fast as possible. If you’re not rewarded for good defense why bother with it? Especially if, as you said, your time is limited.

    As for the comparison to tourneys, not the same thing at all. With tourneys you had to ACT to hold rank, while as in TW, once you’ve set your defense, you can’t change it, there is no ACTION that’ll change your defensive lineup if it’s not working, so someone sitting there counting banners would be exercising futility and most likely does that anyway even without extra banners given for defensive holds (FYI, guilty sa charged, I totally did that ;) ).
  • Andyroo880 wrote: »
    Team Instinct managed to stop a 132m GP guild from clearing their table.

    If I remember correctly TI are somewhere between 15M-30M over 132M GP and are the only team in the game that’ll have such lopsided matchups if the matchmaking algorithm is working properly.
  • War
    932 posts Member
    yossgold wrote: »
    War wrote: »

    You seem to have missed the parts where I explained TW would become an awful all day long experience if this change occurred. From a competitive person's view point, sure. Spend all day glued to your device paying attention to the banners to make sure it's safe to risk attacks, and in the end no ties. You earned that first place, but at the cost of fun. A foreign concept in this game, I know.

    TW as it is now is fun! Seriously. I had a lot of fun using teams I hadn't used since tournament days. This suggested change might prevent ties, and a small part of the population would find it more fun. The reason I say small, is because TW is tournaments 2.0. Tournaments failed for being all day time sinks for rewards that did not match time spent. Nevertheless, there was a part of the game population that disliked tourneys being removed.

    This change would certainly make the competitive players that loved original tourneys happy, but that's a small part of the game's population. The majority of the game's pop does not want all day game modes for small rewards like 1 zeta. A mode where you jump in with your entire roster to beat teams and take territories is exactly what people want. Short and sweet, with small but good rewards.

    I have no time for stuff like that. I only ever made time to win a single tourney. A grueling 24 hours to hold rank for the prize I wanted. I would be one of the many players, if this change were to occur, to just set all my best characters on defense and call it good. Let the players with time and patience for nonsense like that play the offense portion of the mode.

    We should implement some kind of tie breaker, but not by ruining the fun of TW. Competition and competitive spirit is important, but so is fun. Something this game has been lacking on for awhile.

    I’m can assure you that if there are no ways to avoid draws, fun TW as it is will be an afterthought before you can say Jack Robinson. I’ve already seen loads of chatter everywhere about ppl saying that since there’s no win or lose, there’s also no reason to even think about defense. Since you can more or less assume that your map is going to be cleared no matter what your defensive strategy is (and you can assume that), just put the minimum 6K per node (which is one toon), leave your whole roster for offense and be done with it as fast as possible. If you’re not rewarded for good defense why bother with it? Especially if, as you said, your time is limited.

    As for the comparison to tourneys, not the same thing at all. With tourneys you had to ACT to hold rank, while as in TW, once you’ve set your defense, you can’t change it, there is no ACTION that’ll change your defensive lineup if it’s not working, so someone sitting there counting banners would be exercising futility and most likely does that anyway even without extra banners given for defensive holds (FYI, guilty sa charged, I totally did that ;) ).

    You could also only set your defense team once in tourneys. I don't think we'll reach a point of only setting one team per territory. Maybe for some guilds that truly don't feel like they can win, and for some reason don't have members enjoying TW, but that just makes for easy wins for your guild and incidentally breaking ties.

    Going with that scenario, it's honestly a win win for players that legitimately enjoy TW. You either face another guild having a blast with TW and there's a fairly high chance at getting a tie, I've actually been shown screenshots where one side did win, but have a fun time of it. Or you like you said, there will be guilds that have given up on TW, and you get first place rewards because they didn't bother. My guild will never give up on TW, so I welcome both scenarios. An actual fun day of play with this game, something sadly rare in this game, or free first place rewards.

    Don't get me wrong, ties kind of lame, but this is not the way to go about it. This pleases the least amount of players, and heavily favors whale guilds with the most Talzins, Han zetas, Barriss zetas, and other meta characters. It takes out the aspect of your entire roster matters. Something we were looking forward to in TB, but then turns out it's actually only 4 main teams that matter.

    There was that suggestion of after all territories are taken you deploy your remaining roster, which seems like the best way to do it. It's the same concept of defense wins matter, without destroying the fun. I can still use any and every team in my roster, but the less I use, the better chance of breaking that tie.
  • +1
  • Here are some suggestions for a tie-breaker and making this mode more interesting. Surely you have thought of these, but we really are going to need some quick upgrades or your players are gonna get frustrated and/or bored:

    1) Give handicaps to teams like in golf so that the top 5 teams aren't just battling each other or killing guilds smaller than them each week.
    2) Open up the zones to not have a limit on defensive teams. This will greatly increase the creativity and theroy-crafting.
    3) Sure. Award points for defensive teams. Sound idea.

    Thanks to all the devs and communications staff for their hard work.

    As for the game managers and producers...you might wanna get your act together on the whole workload/roll-out timing piece before the trend of players quitting that we saw in the last three days continues.
  • I was one of the first to propose +1 banner for any successful defense, right after I participated in beta TW.
    After thinking more about it, I'm not sure that's a good idea anymore. Someone mentioned that nobody would attack but just wait for a movement from the opponent...

    A more simple and easier to implement idea would be to just increase the number of defense teams you can deploy in a territory. So instead of 25 maximum per territory, corelate this maximum with guild's active gp. They already have those intervals for rewards, they can set different maximum number of teams based on that.
  • Drydinxal
    3 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    The real problem with ties is that it encourages us to use our weakest toons on defense. Active guilds above a certain gp (let’s say 100k) are going to tie most if not all the time. If I can safely assume that the other guild will clear anyways, why not save all my best for offense (fun and insures clear). Eventually, all guilds will use this strategy because there is no downside and tw will become just another time sink. Mowing through weak teams just isn’t that fun (though neither is fighting zarris).

    That will then lead to the above poster’s point: with no “tie rewards” might as well not even participate. I’ll take the free zeta and save an hour of my time.
  • yossgold wrote: »
    Andyroo880 wrote: »
    Team Instinct managed to stop a 132m GP guild from clearing their table.

    If I remember correctly TI are somewhere between 15M-30M over 132M GP and are the only team in the game that’ll have such lopsided matchups if the matchmaking algorithm is working properly.

    There are 3 TI guilds. The 170m TI guild didn't battle the 132m GP guild. All 3 TI guilds won the first territory wars. Ties are definitely possible, but clearly so is winning.

    I do feel defensive stops should award banners. Whether 1 for the most total defends or 1 for each defend.
  • RWTD_Burn wrote: »
    Fredy5 wrote: »
    if you run a race and finnish at the exact same time. both finish First not 2nd.....

    This is a race that the 2 participants can easily agree to tie on purpose so they both get the rewards. Both getting 2nd place is the only way to protect the integrity of GW.


    ****.

    If both guilds wipe the map they should get 1st place scores no matter what. It SHOULD be the same with the rancor raid. A rancor solo should give you 1st place rewards no matter how many people solo.

    So you are cool with both guilds communicating within a chatting app and agreeing to put all of their weakest teams on defense so both guilds can easily clear the map without any effort? Because that's what is going to happen if both teams get 1st place prices for a tie by clearing the map. This isn't the Rancor Raid where the difficulty is locked in and can't be manipulated to create competitive advantage.
    RWTD_Burn - Bears with Sabers
    https://swgoh.gg/u/rwtdBurn/
  • TW first issue is game's lack of balance. Only a few teams work on defense while a lot of them work on offense, which means we're going to see ties, again and again...I'm still wondering if there's a point in defending at all.

    Something is missing in this content, something more strategical that could help/impair tremendously some fights (some kinds of platoons).
  • LukeDukem8
    383 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    I think it should be a winner take all concept. You only get 1 attack per battle. So if the defense wins 1 battle, they get to keep the territory. This will make everyone think twice about what squad to use. Plus, it will pit the best teams against each other, rather than 3 or 4 crap teams against the best team.

    Also, even if you lose the territory its still worth doing the other battles for the points, b.c your team could hold a territory as well, so it might come down to individual battles won.
  • As a short term solution, giving defensive squads banners for holding is probably best. What I'd love to see is a full scale War where occupation and retaking of defeated territory is possible. The point is to completely deplete one of the guilds roster. The guild holding then most territory in the end is the winner.
  • I think the point system should remain as is but have defense act a a tiebreaker. Whoever had the most wins on defense gets 1st place on a tie. Some suggested giving both teams 1st place but if the game does that, everyone will just set weak defensive teams and easily clear the board on offense so there would be even more ties.
  • What about giving defensive squads 20% turn meter on there first battle. would make it a lot harder.
  • KIDR0N
    19 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    We didn't tie but we won by ships only but definitely see a problem with ties. I definitely like the defensive wins counting for banners but maybe only as a tiebreaker if a territory War map is cleared on one side but not the other it shouldn't matter how many defensive wins are present
    Post edited by KIDR0N on
  • Defensive wins takes all the fun out of it. No more using your full roster. Wouldn't risk loosing. More meta toons against meta toons takes all the strategy out of combat. No more using unique tactical squads to weaken better squads. Makes tw like every other thing in this game.
  • War
    932 posts Member
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    Defensive wins takes all the fun out of it. No more using your full roster. Wouldn't risk loosing. More meta toons against meta toons takes all the strategy out of combat. No more using unique tactical squads to weaken better squads. Makes tw like every other thing in this game.

    That's what I've been trying to get at. Glad for more like minded opinions. Turns out ties aren't as common as we thought anyhow. Only a small percentage of guilds tied in this first TW, and that was likely to no one truly knowing how to prevent the other side from winning. I'm certain our guilds will figure out the strategies, and small number of ties will be smaller.
  • I totally agree since there's absolutely no point in playing anything but on offense atm.
  • LukeDukem8
    383 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    I think it should be a winner take all concept. You only get 1 attack per battle. So if the defense wins 1 battle, they get to keep the territory. This will make everyone think twice about what squad to use. Plus, it will pit the best teams against each other, rather than 3 or 4 kitten teams against the best team.
    Also, even if you lose the territory its still worth doing the other battles for the points, b.c your team could hold a territory as well, so it might come down to individual battles won.
    Post edited by Ambassador on
  • 1 point per defensive hold seems like the best solution. It's small enough that it would not really affect the outcome unless both guilds clear the board then whoever had the best strategy wins.
  • LukeDukem8 wrote: »
    I think it should be a winner take all concept. You only get 1 attack per battle. So if the defense wins 1 battle, they get to keep the territory. This will make everyone think twice about what squad to use. Plus, it will pit the best teams against each other, rather than 3 or 4 **** teams against the best team.
    Also, even if you lose the territory its still worth doing the other battles for the points, b.c your team could hold a territory as well, so it might come down to individual battles won.

    Not so sure the one and done is realistic. But I could see a cooldown timer for attacks being implemented. This would slow down the amount of attacks. If you attack and are defeated, a 2-9 min cooldown timer before that same squad can be attacked again. This allows suicide squads but is less forgiving as far as throwing the kitchen sink at a squad.
  • Nebulous wrote: »
    LukeDukem8 wrote: »
    I think it should be a winner take all concept. You only get 1 attack per battle. So if the defense wins 1 battle, they get to keep the territory. This will make everyone think twice about what squad to use. Plus, it will pit the best teams against each other, rather than 3 or 4 **** teams against the best team.
    Also, even if you lose the territory its still worth doing the other battles for the points, b.c your team could hold a territory as well, so it might come down to individual battles won.

    Not so sure the one and done is realistic. But I could see a cooldown timer for attacks being implemented. This would slow down the amount of attacks. If you attack and are defeated, a 2-9 min cooldown timer before that same squad can be attacked again. This allows suicide squads but is less forgiving as far as throwing the kitchen sink at a squad.

    The winner take all concept was to put balance back between offense and defense. Right now no defense/team can withstand multiple attacks from lower suicide squads. Even with the points per defensive win, you still are attacking multiple times.

    All the timer does is slow down the process, but its the same process. Not to mention, am guessing no one in the community wants to slow the game down anymore.

    At least with the 1 attack per battle:
    1.) it speeds the game up (there will only be 250 attacks. )
    2.) Its extremely consequential to the game outcome
    3.) It brings banner totals into the strategy, because you dont want to lose the higher banner totals when attacking
    4. ) it makes defense more balanced with the offense

    Just my opinion.
  • Mzee
    1709 posts Member
    War wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »
    Defensive wins takes all the fun out of it. No more using your full roster. Wouldn't risk loosing. More meta toons against meta toons takes all the strategy out of combat. No more using unique tactical squads to weaken better squads. Makes tw like every other thing in this game.

    That's what I've been trying to get at. Glad for more like minded opinions. Turns out ties aren't as common as we thought anyhow. Only a small percentage of guilds tied in this first TW, and that was likely to no one truly knowing how to prevent the other side from winning. I'm certain our guilds will figure out the strategies, and small number of ties will be smaller.

    From what I have heard is that higher GP guilds had a lot more ties. I'm in a discord channel with hundreds of people in it for territory wars where guilds make rooms with their opponents. There was a poll on whether one lost a war, won, or had a draw. The ratio of draw to the others was around 10/1 and that was a sample of 100s of people. The data CG likely used to say that there was a low percentage of guilds was across all guilds. The vast majority of heavy spenders and more hardcore minded players are in the higher GP guilds so I think we really do need a tie breaker.
  • Another idea i like is awarding different defensive bonuses per territory, so +20 speed in one, more defense in another, higher max protection in another. This will put more strategy into where you should place your defensive units and balance out defense to offense.

    Maybe you give tanks the higher speed, and attackers the higher protection...etc..
  • And when they are on it, they should implement that if you lose, you are matched against fuild which lost too, so you at least have hope of winning. And if you lose again, you will be matched agains guild which lost 2 times...and so on.
    Same for winning side.
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