Star Wars: The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

Replies

  • Leparine
    38 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    @Boo

    I agree with you that in the PT the critical points about the jedi are sadly not that obvious. Atleast to some degree Lucas brought this aspect into clone wars. I finished the series a month before watching TLJ and Ahsoka´s story made me understand Luke´s approach to the jedi even more^^
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    I wish that Yoda in the prequels was doing neat stuff with the force like Luke and Snoke in TLJ instead of directly contradicting everything established in Empire.

    However, we did get to see Yoda in action on more than 1 occasion. Lets count Luke and Snoke in TLJ.....

    That’s my point. Yoda shouldn’t be “in action”. He’s an old, tiny, green alien who (at least in the OT) believes in peace, non-violence, and submission to the will of the force. If he encounters an obstacle, he should solve it in a creative way by using the force (a la Luke and Snoke in TLJ) not by whipping out a lightsaber and engaging in some nauseating, nonsensical, boring action sequence.

    The whole point of the Light’s advantage over the Dark is how multifaceted it is. The dark side provides short term, brute strength. The Light is more creative and subversive.

    The PT was even aware of this virtue (we’re keepers of the peace, not soldiers) then immediately goes on to contradict it.

    At least the Clone Wars had the decency to recon the bad writing of the PT into a plot device where Sidious took advantage of moral hypocrisies within the Jedi Order.

    Keepers of the peace not soldiers - A police officer or "peacekeeper" still carries a gun but does not go to the Middle-East to fight wars - same thing.

    In your logic no jedi should carry a lightsaber as weapons are against the code? I personally enjoyed Yoda's battle with Dooku and Sidious - very entertaining. I was actually a little disappointed that Yoda and Sidious was so overshadowed by Anakin and Obi Wan's duel - oh well, still good and better than what we have seen thus far in the PT.

    I think that the difference in Yoda between PT and OT is that it shows a growth of his character and understanding of the force, it also further illustrates the failings of the Jedi in PT which, to some, wasn't obvious enough. Yoda is also still in the mindset of the old failing Jedi though, believing Anakin to be lost to Darth Vader and needs to be destroyed - not very Jedi like is it?

    I totally agree with your clone wars statement - why some of that was not in the PT I don't know - sloppy George Lucas, that's why.

    Perhaps an animated series around the ST will raise its ugly head to explain all the nonsensical plot points TFA and TLJ have made - but that is just as bad if not worse, because unlike the failings of the PT and likewise Yoda's wisdom come TESB - Disney seem to be just as arrogant as the failing Jedi Order.

    I don’t think every Jedi in the PT needed to be without a physical weapon, but the sheer quantity of them (ahem, geonosis) and how often they’re used shows a lack of creativity and is just fan service. I mean, the FIRST THING obi wan and qui gon do in TPM is whip out their lazer swords with next to no provocation as if to tell the audience “This is STAR WARS!! Isn’t this what you love about STAR WARS?!” I would understand if more lowly jedi relied more on violence than their seniors, but the “wisest” jedi’s first instinct always goes to violence. We hear their ideologies, but we never see them acted out.

    That’s why I love both TFA and TLJ (especially TlJ) for having instances where the Force is utilized in a unique, creative way by their characters (both good and evil) to solve problems or acheive goals. There’s a great bit in TLJ where Luke asks Rey what she thinks the Force is, and she says “lifting rocks.” Luke then corrects her because her definition is incredibly simplistic and fails to encapsulate what the Force truly is and is capable of. Rey’s definition makes sense in the PT because that’s all its used for.
  • Three Comments:

    1) While I found the Casino scene long, I was very happy it was there. TFA lacked the fantasy elements you expect from Star Wars. Mos Eisley Cantina, Cloud City, Jabba's Palace, etc. If I want Sci-fi I'll watch something else. It was nice to have a slow look around and see all the aliens hanging out opposed to non-stop action. This is why overall I am glad that RJ is taking over the franchise it seems.

    2) While I was also disappointed w/ what they did to Luke, I like the way RJ brought in Yoda and the other cool force abilities which is why I overall am hopefull for the future and am excited to see what he does with the new trilogy they are letting him do.

    3) Most importantly, any star wars movie is better then none so I will keep going to see them becuase hey, it's Star Wars!
  • CCyrilS
    3862 posts Member
    This is the first movie I have seen in theaters in 10 years. Took my 12 yr old daughter and we both enjoyed it. No sense in getting hung up on the little things, or even worse, pointing things out to try to sound smart. The whole day was a great experience and that's all that matters.
  • DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Yep, made no sense there why he was all dressed up.

    When they announced the new trilogy I was wondering why they were having one guy do 7 another do 8 and yet another do 9. Now they are going back to JJ for 9. Why not just let one guy do all three?

    Imagine the Han Solo movie - Ron Howard is technically director number 3!

    Its going to be a compilation of rubbish that no one really wanted to see in the first place. People are saying TLJ is the worst star wars movie, perhaps thus far, but my money is on the Han Solo movie being the biggest **** in the toilet.

    The Han Solo movie is looking up to be the first film in decades every sw fan will agree on

    Yeah, but if the rumors are true, I have a feeling that the Obi-Wan Kenobi movie will be really good; that is the SW film that I am looking forward to the most, especially if Ewan McGreggor reprises his role.
  • Yep, cant have Kylo Ren killing Luke. It would totally demoralize the Rebels and show that he could not be stopped. If you have him kill Han Solo and Luke Skywalker word would travel about how he defeated the heroes of old and the FO would roll through the Rebels. Only way to defeat Kylo Ren would have been through Leia and we know that cant happen now.

    There was talk that Leia was going to be in 9 a lot and confront Kylo Ren. Dont know what the outcome of that was supposed to be though.
  • LordDirt wrote: »
    Yep, cant have Kylo Ren killing Luke. It would totally demoralize the Rebels and show that he could not be stopped. If you have him kill Han Solo and Luke Skywalker word would travel about how he defeated the heroes of old and the FO would roll through the Rebels. Only way to defeat Kylo Ren would have been through Leia and we know that cant happen now.

    There was talk that Leia was going to be in 9 a lot and confront Kylo Ren. Dont know what the outcome of that was supposed to be though.

    What's to stop them from saying Kylo killed Luke Skywalker anyway? He was last seen fighting him, and now he's dead.
  • LordDirt
    911 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    Leia and Rey know the truth and so do all the FO officers and soldiers. The kids at the end of the movie were already telling the story of Luke taking on the FO. Poe even said it will be the spark.
  • To OP:

    Whether you agree or not, it has a lot more elements of what lucas envisioned star wars to be than the opposite. Yes there was a lot missing but what popcorn movie is complete? Interestingly, one could argue that “the last jedi” was star wars at it’s most pure lucas and if you didn’t like it, it proves you’re just a fan of movies, and not of star wars.

    Hopefully it continues to grow from the shoddy job lucas did at portraying his vision in ep iv. and how badly Kershner missed the follow up in ep v. (by the time ep vi rolled out, it was already too late so lucas just finished the story to appease the fans). Lucas tried again for ep i-iii and again, failed to produce his vision properly (because in truth, he is not a genius) but he got closer and continued toiling on for us fans.

    The force awakens was “an ode” to the old version, the last jedi seems an attempt to refine the vision and reach for what lucas originally envisioned.
  • scuba
    12142 posts Member
    I kinda find this funny. A post to boycott a movie franchise that most will go see no matter what because they love star wars posted on a forum about a game that most only still play and spend money on because they love star wars.
  • Guys, it's a movie. If you don't like it move on with your lives like all of us who hated the Prequels did.
    The field of battle is like the mongoose. Slow to joviality, but thirsty for morning sunshine.
    -Sun Tzu
  • Boo
    3804 posts Member
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    I wish that Yoda in the prequels was doing neat stuff with the force like Luke and Snoke in TLJ instead of directly contradicting everything established in Empire.

    However, we did get to see Yoda in action on more than 1 occasion. Lets count Luke and Snoke in TLJ.....

    That’s my point. Yoda shouldn’t be “in action”. He’s an old, tiny, green alien who (at least in the OT) believes in peace, non-violence, and submission to the will of the force. If he encounters an obstacle, he should solve it in a creative way by using the force (a la Luke and Snoke in TLJ) not by whipping out a lightsaber and engaging in some nauseating, nonsensical, boring action sequence.

    The whole point of the Light’s advantage over the Dark is how multifaceted it is. The dark side provides short term, brute strength. The Light is more creative and subversive.

    The PT was even aware of this virtue (we’re keepers of the peace, not soldiers) then immediately goes on to contradict it.

    At least the Clone Wars had the decency to recon the bad writing of the PT into a plot device where Sidious took advantage of moral hypocrisies within the Jedi Order.

    Keepers of the peace not soldiers - A police officer or "peacekeeper" still carries a gun but does not go to the Middle-East to fight wars - same thing.

    In your logic no jedi should carry a lightsaber as weapons are against the code? I personally enjoyed Yoda's battle with Dooku and Sidious - very entertaining. I was actually a little disappointed that Yoda and Sidious was so overshadowed by Anakin and Obi Wan's duel - oh well, still good and better than what we have seen thus far in the PT.

    I think that the difference in Yoda between PT and OT is that it shows a growth of his character and understanding of the force, it also further illustrates the failings of the Jedi in PT which, to some, wasn't obvious enough. Yoda is also still in the mindset of the old failing Jedi though, believing Anakin to be lost to Darth Vader and needs to be destroyed - not very Jedi like is it?

    I totally agree with your clone wars statement - why some of that was not in the PT I don't know - sloppy George Lucas, that's why.

    Perhaps an animated series around the ST will raise its ugly head to explain all the nonsensical plot points TFA and TLJ have made - but that is just as bad if not worse, because unlike the failings of the PT and likewise Yoda's wisdom come TESB - Disney seem to be just as arrogant as the failing Jedi Order.

    I don’t think every Jedi in the PT needed to be without a physical weapon, but the sheer quantity of them (ahem, geonosis) and how often they’re used shows a lack of creativity and is just fan service. I mean, the FIRST THING obi wan and qui gon do in TPM is whip out their lazer swords with next to no provocation as if to tell the audience “This is STAR WARS!! Isn’t this what you love about STAR WARS?!” I would understand if more lowly jedi relied more on violence than their seniors, but the “wisest” jedi’s first instinct always goes to violence. We hear their ideologies, but we never see them acted out.

    That’s why I love both TFA and TLJ (especially TlJ) for having instances where the Force is utilized in a unique, creative way by their characters (both good and evil) to solve problems or acheive goals. There’s a great bit in TLJ where Luke asks Rey what she thinks the Force is, and she says “lifting rocks.” Luke then corrects her because her definition is incredibly simplistic and fails to encapsulate what the Force truly is and is capable of. Rey’s definition makes sense in the PT because that’s all its used for.

    Well I certainly cannot argue with that logic, however it does not make TFA or TLJ "good movies" or at least change my overall opinion of them.

    Don't get me wrong though, I think TLJ had potential to be great! it just fell so short and its frustrating because a few little things Johnson could have done to change it and he didn't. Particularly how Leia's character was handled and how it will be handled re: E9 (e.g she will likely never make another appearance making her character practically a waste of time and story space). I know people tend to not like R1's Tarkin and Princess Leia, but I think such a thing is warranted to write her story out of the franchise - having her character "disappear" in a worse way than Luke, to me, is not acceptable.
  • Boo
    3804 posts Member
    snarzenal wrote: »
    To OP:

    Whether you agree or not, it has a lot more elements of what lucas envisioned star wars to be than the opposite. Yes there was a lot missing but what popcorn movie is complete? Interestingly, one could argue that “the last jedi” was star wars at it’s most pure lucas and if you didn’t like it, it proves you’re just a fan of movies, and not of star wars.

    Hopefully it continues to grow from the shoddy job lucas did at portraying his vision in ep iv. and how badly Kershner missed the follow up in ep v. (by the time ep vi rolled out, it was already too late so lucas just finished the story to appease the fans). Lucas tried again for ep i-iii and again, failed to produce his vision properly (because in truth, he is not a genius) but he got closer and continued toiling on for us fans.

    The force awakens was “an ode” to the old version, the last jedi seems an attempt to refine the vision and reach for what lucas originally envisioned.

    What utter nonsense.
  • Boo
    3804 posts Member
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Yep, made no sense there why he was all dressed up.

    When they announced the new trilogy I was wondering why they were having one guy do 7 another do 8 and yet another do 9. Now they are going back to JJ for 9. Why not just let one guy do all three?

    Imagine the Han Solo movie - Ron Howard is technically director number 3!

    Its going to be a compilation of rubbish that no one really wanted to see in the first place. People are saying TLJ is the worst star wars movie, perhaps thus far, but my money is on the Han Solo movie being the biggest **** in the toilet.

    The Han Solo movie is looking up to be the first film in decades every sw fan will agree on

    Yeah, but if the rumors are true, I have a feeling that the Obi-Wan Kenobi movie will be really good; that is the SW film that I am looking forward to the most, especially if Ewan McGreggor reprises his role.

    McGregor said he'd do it in a heartbeat - my issue is, what the hec is the story going to be about?

    He is stuck on Tatooine - hiding from the Empire. SO, I doubt he will leave the planet. Additionally I bet you can honestly speculate Darth Maul will not make an appearance either - so in terms of a movie - what are we looking at here?? Then again they made movies of people in Phone Booths and Stuck on a Ledge - so who knows?
  • Boo wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Yep, made no sense there why he was all dressed up.

    When they announced the new trilogy I was wondering why they were having one guy do 7 another do 8 and yet another do 9. Now they are going back to JJ for 9. Why not just let one guy do all three?

    Imagine the Han Solo movie - Ron Howard is technically director number 3!

    Its going to be a compilation of rubbish that no one really wanted to see in the first place. People are saying TLJ is the worst star wars movie, perhaps thus far, but my money is on the Han Solo movie being the biggest **** in the toilet.

    The Han Solo movie is looking up to be the first film in decades every sw fan will agree on

    Yeah, but if the rumors are true, I have a feeling that the Obi-Wan Kenobi movie will be really good; that is the SW film that I am looking forward to the most, especially if Ewan McGreggor reprises his role.

    McGregor said he'd do it in a heartbeat - my issue is, what the hec is the story going to be about?

    He is stuck on Tatooine - hiding from the Empire. SO, I doubt he will leave the planet. Additionally I bet you can honestly speculate Darth Maul will not make an appearance either - so in terms of a movie - what are we looking at here?? Then again they made movies of people in Phone Booths and Stuck on a Ledge - so who knows?

    Kenobi Novel:

    "Obi-Wan Kenobi is a new arrival on the planet of Tatooine. Now going under the guise of Ben, he has left the infant child of Anakin Skywalker, Luke Skywalker, in the care of Owen Lars and Beru Whitesun Lars. Kenobi sets up a house in the outskirts of the desert with his pet, Rooh.
    Nearby, the settlers and moisture farmers of Dannar's Claim rally together under Orrin Gault against the threat of the Tusken Raiders, who are gradually losing morale and people against Gault's alliance of settlers.

    Following another of the settlers' victorious battle against the Tusken Raiders, Kallie Calwell, the teenaged daughter of the owner of Dannar's Claim, Anilleen, accidentally rides an animal toward a field of Sarlaccs. Annileen tries to save her daughter, but both women are saved by Kenobi, riding on Rooh.

    After saving the Calwell women, Kenobi begins to visit Dannar's Claim on an irregular basis to the point where he soon sees what the united settlers are doing to the Tusken Raiders. Kenobi communicates with the Tusken's leader, A'Yark, who agrees that what the settlers are doing to the Tuskens is morally wrong. At the same time, Annileen starts to develop a fond attraction to Kenobi.

    Kenobi decides to investigate Orrin Gault, who wants to marry Annileen. The former Jedi discovers that Gault is deeply in debt to Jabba Desilijic Tiure, and is rallying the settlers for his own financial benefit; as well, Orrin's desire to marry Annileen was also to plunder more money from her ownership of Dannar's Claim to give to Jabba. After stopping one of Gault's scams to get more settlers into his sham alliance, Kenobi becomes a pariah whom Gault wants dead. Thus, Kenobi teams up with the Tusken Raiders to take Gault down.

    Kenobi comes up with a plan to gather the Tusken clan who has been attacked by Orrin's group. While Ben is preparing the Tuskens, Annileen calls Jabba's cronies to come and settle the large debt that has been accumulated. Orrin still tries to make Kenobi the scapegoat and get the other settlers to rally against the man, but in the end Annileen tells the settlers that Kenobi is a good person. This confirms the suspicions the settlers harbor of Orrin's goals. When being pursued by Orrin, a canyon krayt dragon attacks Kenobi. This is where he reveals himself as a Jedi to Orrin Gault as he battles the beast. After destroying the krayt dragon, Orrin schemes to reveal Kenobi to the Empire. Which could be his last card to play, despite his desperate situation with the settlers, the Tuskens, and Jabba's debt. Eventually Orrin tries to escape, making use of a damaged land speeder. In a face off with Annileen, Kenobi, and A'Yark, Orrin accelerates quickly towards the Tusken leader which sends them speeding off a cliff into the Tusken badlands. Orrin is no longer seen by Kenobi, Anilieen or the children at that point.

    In the end, Orrin, thought dead, is paralyzed from the waist down and badly burned. He is taken in by the Tusken Raiders. He wakes up discovering that he is wearing a Tusken breathing mask. A'Yark reveals that Orrin is now a slave on the Tusken camp and will be used to repair moisture vaporators.

    Annileen and her children meet Kenobi at his house in the Jundland wastes. Kenobi then reveals to Annileen that he has arranged for her to travel to Bestine and leave Tatooine for good. He also gives her news that he submitted her university application, that she had been holding onto the Claim for so many years. She will study exobiology and travel to multiple systems and planets to study different species as part of the program. She is overjoyed with the news. But Kenobi reveals that he will not be staying with her and her family. He explains has responsibilities on the planet to take care of. He also explains how he has been withholding information from her about his past. This upsets her greatly and causes her to feel sorry for Kenobi. She is saddened to lose her new savior, but finds a way to deal with her grief."

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kenobi_(novel)






  • LordDirt wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Yep, made no sense there why he was all dressed up.

    When they announced the new trilogy I was wondering why they were having one guy do 7 another do 8 and yet another do 9. Now they are going back to JJ for 9. Why not just let one guy do all three?

    Imagine the Han Solo movie - Ron Howard is technically director number 3!

    Its going to be a compilation of rubbish that no one really wanted to see in the first place. People are saying TLJ is the worst star wars movie, perhaps thus far, but my money is on the Han Solo movie being the biggest **** in the toilet.

    The Han Solo movie is looking up to be the first film in decades every sw fan will agree on

    Yeah, but if the rumors are true, I have a feeling that the Obi-Wan Kenobi movie will be really good; that is the SW film that I am looking forward to the most, especially if Ewan McGreggor reprises his role.

    McGregor said he'd do it in a heartbeat - my issue is, what the hec is the story going to be about?

    He is stuck on Tatooine - hiding from the Empire. SO, I doubt he will leave the planet. Additionally I bet you can honestly speculate Darth Maul will not make an appearance either - so in terms of a movie - what are we looking at here?? Then again they made movies of people in Phone Booths and Stuck on a Ledge - so who knows?

    Kenobi Novel:

    "Obi-Wan Kenobi is a new arrival on the planet of Tatooine. Now going under the guise of Ben, he has left the infant child of Anakin Skywalker, Luke Skywalker, in the care of Owen Lars and Beru Whitesun Lars. Kenobi sets up a house in the outskirts of the desert with his pet, Rooh.
    Nearby, the settlers and moisture farmers of Dannar's Claim rally together under Orrin Gault against the threat of the Tusken Raiders, who are gradually losing morale and people against Gault's alliance of settlers.

    Following another of the settlers' victorious battle against the Tusken Raiders, Kallie Calwell, the teenaged daughter of the owner of Dannar's Claim, Anilleen, accidentally rides an animal toward a field of Sarlaccs. Annileen tries to save her daughter, but both women are saved by Kenobi, riding on Rooh.

    After saving the Calwell women, Kenobi begins to visit Dannar's Claim on an irregular basis to the point where he soon sees what the united settlers are doing to the Tusken Raiders. Kenobi communicates with the Tusken's leader, A'Yark, who agrees that what the settlers are doing to the Tuskens is morally wrong. At the same time, Annileen starts to develop a fond attraction to Kenobi.

    Kenobi decides to investigate Orrin Gault, who wants to marry Annileen. The former Jedi discovers that Gault is deeply in debt to Jabba Desilijic Tiure, and is rallying the settlers for his own financial benefit; as well, Orrin's desire to marry Annileen was also to plunder more money from her ownership of Dannar's Claim to give to Jabba. After stopping one of Gault's scams to get more settlers into his sham alliance, Kenobi becomes a pariah whom Gault wants dead. Thus, Kenobi teams up with the Tusken Raiders to take Gault down.

    Kenobi comes up with a plan to gather the Tusken clan who has been attacked by Orrin's group. While Ben is preparing the Tuskens, Annileen calls Jabba's cronies to come and settle the large debt that has been accumulated. Orrin still tries to make Kenobi the scapegoat and get the other settlers to rally against the man, but in the end Annileen tells the settlers that Kenobi is a good person. This confirms the suspicions the settlers harbor of Orrin's goals. When being pursued by Orrin, a canyon krayt dragon attacks Kenobi. This is where he reveals himself as a Jedi to Orrin Gault as he battles the beast. After destroying the krayt dragon, Orrin schemes to reveal Kenobi to the Empire. Which could be his last card to play, despite his desperate situation with the settlers, the Tuskens, and Jabba's debt. Eventually Orrin tries to escape, making use of a damaged land speeder. In a face off with Annileen, Kenobi, and A'Yark, Orrin accelerates quickly towards the Tusken leader which sends them speeding off a cliff into the Tusken badlands. Orrin is no longer seen by Kenobi, Anilieen or the children at that point.

    In the end, Orrin, thought dead, is paralyzed from the waist down and badly burned. He is taken in by the Tusken Raiders. He wakes up discovering that he is wearing a Tusken breathing mask. A'Yark reveals that Orrin is now a slave on the Tusken camp and will be used to repair moisture vaporators.

    Annileen and her children meet Kenobi at his house in the Jundland wastes. Kenobi then reveals to Annileen that he has arranged for her to travel to Bestine and leave Tatooine for good. He also gives her news that he submitted her university application, that she had been holding onto the Claim for so many years. She will study exobiology and travel to multiple systems and planets to study different species as part of the program. She is overjoyed with the news. But Kenobi reveals that he will not be staying with her and her family. He explains has responsibilities on the planet to take care of. He also explains how he has been withholding information from her about his past. This upsets her greatly and causes her to feel sorry for Kenobi. She is saddened to lose her new savior, but finds a way to deal with her grief."

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kenobi_(novel)






    It was a really good book.
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
  • Joost
    232 posts Member
    I actually enjoyed the movie. I agreed that the canto **** scene **** and the space Leia scene was cringe worthy. But the scenes with Luke, Rey, kylo and snoke had me on the edge of my seat. My friends and I enjoyed the movie. This is far from the worse Star Wars movie ever. This is a lot better than Phantom Menance and attack of the clones. Sure some parts of the movie **** but it was really enjoyable. Smokes death was so fulfilling and had me surprised b/c I thought it would be a rehash of the empire strikes back.Luke’s death was so meaningful to me. A childhood hero. He died the same way Yoda and Ben died. Through fulfillment of the force, being balanced and accepting of their current fate. Bad movie of not, Luke and Snoke’s death was very well done.

    Agreed 100% I got goosebumps when Luke saved the Resistance and became one with the force. That was one of the best moments in Star Wars to me. I think this movie is better than The Phantom Menace, Rogue One and The Force Awakens (maybe more these are just my least favourites).

    Also them bringing back Yoda was just awesome!
  • Boo
    3804 posts Member
    Interesting but I would argue there is only one Sarlacc on Tatooine hence threepio quoting Jabba: THE almighty Sarlacc - hinting there is only one, but who knows.

    The tusken raider and settler plot sounds like the Tatooine mission in KOTOR - the tuskens are animal savages though, and if Kenobi was on good terms with the tuskens - he could have talked to the ones attacking Luke - but he didn't.

    Krayt dragon and dealings with Jabba etc. sound interesting though.

    Ultimately - what does such a story actually add to the grand scheme of things, when compared to the saga?

    Rogue One was awesome to explain how the Rebels got the Death Star plans, allowing them to destroy the death star - a major achievement and battle in star wars history.

    Han Solo story I also do not see as a needed addition to the saga, but could tell an interesting story of Han's past - how he met Chewie, how he acquired the Falcon from Lando, dealings with Jabba, and the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs - none is needed really, but we, as an audience, are already familiar with Kenobi and what his part in the overall story of star wars.
  • Joost wrote: »
    I actually enjoyed the movie. I agreed that the canto **** scene **** and the space Leia scene was cringe worthy. But the scenes with Luke, Rey, kylo and snoke had me on the edge of my seat. My friends and I enjoyed the movie. This is far from the worse Star Wars movie ever. This is a lot better than Phantom Menance and attack of the clones. Sure some parts of the movie **** but it was really enjoyable. Smokes death was so fulfilling and had me surprised b/c I thought it would be a rehash of the empire strikes back.Luke’s death was so meaningful to me. A childhood hero. He died the same way Yoda and Ben died. Through fulfillment of the force, being balanced and accepting of their current fate. Bad movie of not, Luke and Snoke’s death was very well done.

    Agreed 100% I got goosebumps when Luke saved the Resistance and became one with the force. That was one of the best moments in Star Wars to me. I think this movie is better than The Phantom Menace, Rogue One and The Force Awakens (maybe more these are just my least favourites).

    Also them bringing back Yoda was just awesome!

    I thought Yoda coming back was great but didn't understand why he was crazy Yoda instead of serious Yoda. He was acting like he did before Luke knew he was Yoda in ESB. Very strange choice
    The field of battle is like the mongoose. Slow to joviality, but thirsty for morning sunshine.
    -Sun Tzu
  • Boo
    3804 posts Member
    @Nikoms565 shared this on another thread, mixed with @Datboi 's comments above it really has helped me process and accept Luke's part in TLJ and his death.

    @Nikoms565 said this:

    First, the movie does drop major hints that it will kill Luke - Kylo's first comment to Rey via "the connection" ("You can't be doing this yourself...it would kill you.") Even Kylo understands - possibly even having learned how it works from Luke himself prior to them parting ways. The "touch" and exchange part was also hinted at throughout the interactions between Rey and Kylo (the rain on his glove, etc.) And the dice weren't a solid object - they disappear after he dies. There is some debate as to the actual timeline at the end of the movie regarding that issue specifically. But it holds together if the "closing scenes" are pseudo-simultaneous.

    So now we have already explanations of the strain it would take a force user to communicate over such long distances (death) let alone an actual physical projection.

    If Rey's purpose in the glaxy is to balance Kylo's power in the force, perhaps Snoke was balancing Luke's - as we know Snoke was the one responsible for Rey and Kylo's "connection" even when it became quite physical.

    @Datboi said this:

    If Luke showed up in person and let Kylo straight up murder him, Kylo would have been the victor. It would have been a violent, hate fueled death on Kylo’s terms. It would have demonstrated that the dark side gives its user strength greater than that given by following the light.

    However, Luke is victorious because he exposes Kylo for his false assumptions. Luke demonstrates that as long as Kylo follows the dark side, he will never reach his true potential. And although Luke ultimately dies, it is on his terms, completely non-violent, and is a victory, not a loss


    So Luke did not allow Kylo or the FO to kill him physically - therefore fueling the might of the FO across the galaxy. He resolved the situation and allowed the resistance to live on and escape.

    His actions actually fueled the resistance cause as his heroic actions against the might of the FO sparked hope across the galaxy.

    He accepted (with Yoda's help) his failures and found his connection to the force again. He too found hope that the Jedi or light would live on through Rey and that the force will never stop by any individual who decides to sever their connection to it or by death - which is why he said Kylo was so wrong - nothing will change.

    If Luke is the balance in the force opposite Snoke, and Snoke was killed - Luke's death ensures that another powerful dark side user does not rise in his place (similar to the balancing act of Kylo & Rey) - Luke ultimately went to the island/planet to die and he did just that - peacefully looking into the horizon as he did long long ago on Tatooine.

    With all of this in mind, I can honestly say I am now accepting of Luke's role in TLJ and his death.

    But there are still other issues I have with the film.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Interesting but I would argue there is only one Sarlacc on Tatooine hence threepio quoting Jabba: THE almighty Sarlacc - hinting there is only one, but who knows.

    The tusken raider and settler plot sounds like the Tatooine mission in KOTOR - the tuskens are animal savages though, and if Kenobi was on good terms with the tuskens - he could have talked to the ones attacking Luke - but he didn't.

    Krayt dragon and dealings with Jabba etc. sound interesting though.

    Ultimately - what does such a story actually add to the grand scheme of things, when compared to the saga?

    Rogue One was awesome to explain how the Rebels got the Death Star plans, allowing them to destroy the death star - a major achievement and battle in star wars history.

    Han Solo story I also do not see as a needed addition to the saga, but could tell an interesting story of Han's past - how he met Chewie, how he acquired the Falcon from Lando, dealings with Jabba, and the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs - none is needed really, but we, as an audience, are already familiar with Kenobi and what his part in the overall story of star wars.

    Rogue one was also not needed however IMO it is the best film Disney have produced.

    I'm far less nervous about the Hansolo movie than I am about what damage Disney would do to the franchise if they expanded the numbered saga to 12!
  • Blue_10 wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Interesting but I would argue there is only one Sarlacc on Tatooine hence threepio quoting Jabba: THE almighty Sarlacc - hinting there is only one, but who knows.

    The tusken raider and settler plot sounds like the Tatooine mission in KOTOR - the tuskens are animal savages though, and if Kenobi was on good terms with the tuskens - he could have talked to the ones attacking Luke - but he didn't.

    Krayt dragon and dealings with Jabba etc. sound interesting though.

    Ultimately - what does such a story actually add to the grand scheme of things, when compared to the saga?

    Rogue One was awesome to explain how the Rebels got the Death Star plans, allowing them to destroy the death star - a major achievement and battle in star wars history.

    Han Solo story I also do not see as a needed addition to the saga, but could tell an interesting story of Han's past - how he met Chewie, how he acquired the Falcon from Lando, dealings with Jabba, and the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs - none is needed really, but we, as an audience, are already familiar with Kenobi and what his part in the overall story of star wars.

    Rogue one was also not needed however IMO it is the best film Disney have produced.

    I'm far less nervous about the Hansolo movie than I am about what damage Disney would do to the franchise if they expanded the numbered saga to 12!

    I'm very worried about the Han Solo movie. Force Awakens already severely damaged his character. He was so cool in the OT. FA turned him into a deadbeat loser. The Solo movie could make it worse.
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
  • Boo
    3804 posts Member
    Maybe Disney should just stick to stand alone movies after the conclusion of E9.
  • I actually enjoyed the movie. I agreed that the canto **** scene **** and the space Leia scene was cringe worthy. But the scenes with Luke, Rey, kylo and snoke had me on the edge of my seat. My friends and I enjoyed the movie. This is far from the worse Star Wars movie ever. This is a lot better than Phantom Menance and attack of the clones. Sure some parts of the movie **** but it was really enjoyable. Smokes death was so fulfilling and had me surprised b/c I thought it would be a rehash of the empire strikes back.Luke’s death was so meaningful to me. A childhood hero. He died the same way Yoda and Ben died. Through fulfillment of the force, being balanced and accepting of their current fate. Bad movie of not, Luke and Snoke’s death was very well done.

    Are you serious? AOTC was better, I'd argue that TPM was better, but not by much. TLJ tried to be funny, tried to be "thought provoking" and fail at both. Miserably. Snoke should've had more back story. His death was mildly interesting, but for such a powerful force user, makes it lame. There was so much unnecessary content in the film. Mary Poppins Leia in space, rose/finn, the casino. Lets make a movie that rips off master ad commander, then set it in space, throw the into to casino royale and call it movie. So many characters died like chums, not just snoke, but phasma, ackbar, basically all the good guys and most of the bad guys. Luke was crazy, only to be topped by yoda, should teach us seclusion is not good for us. The milk scene? wow, strange. The script writer should just stop. He is awful.

  • You probably feel like your beloved franchise is being used to push an agenda of sorts, right? It's okay, I understand how a person can feel that way, but let me tell you why you shouldn't. We don't have to look at it as pushing an agenda, instead we can look at it as Star Wars playing a role in helping people of different backgrounds, races, and genders to gain the visibility they deserve. It's trying to do a good thing for people, and I think that as a Star Wars fan, being able to have something I love bring some degree of balance and fairness to the real world is something I'm behind 100%. [/quote]

    Or we could just have star wars and leave all the every day garbage we deal with out of it, stop projecting ourselves into that galaxy far far away, where we DON'T belong.
  • LordDirt wrote: »
    Cstone812 wrote: »
    not what I wanted at all. .

    This is why people are mad at the movie, it isnt what they wanted, accept the movie for what it is and not what you have been dreaming of since RotJ and it is great.

    I went into the movie only wanting rey to turn to the darkside. Obviously that wasn't happening. People are mad at the movie because it was a terrible movie with throw away plot lines and characters to add to the insane run time. Not to mention yet again they took aspects of other movies to make their own. This trilogy is lacking original content and character developement. Two pretty crucial things. The last two movies are the worst ones released. At least the prequels were original content.
  • Boo
    3804 posts Member
    You probably feel like your beloved franchise is being used to push an agenda of sorts, right? It's okay, I understand how a person can feel that way, but let me tell you why you shouldn't. We don't have to look at it as pushing an agenda, instead we can look at it as Star Wars playing a role in helping people of different backgrounds, races, and genders to gain the visibility they deserve. It's trying to do a good thing for people, and I think that as a Star Wars fan, being able to have something I love bring some degree of balance and fairness to the real world is something I'm behind 100%.

    Or we could just have star wars and leave all the every day garbage we deal with out of it, stop projecting ourselves into that galaxy far far away, where we DON'T belong.[/quote]

    I agree with your last statement - why does every day garbage and politics have to be projected in star wars - why should star wars promote diversity for the sake of it?

    Lando was cast as a black guy in ESB because there were no one but whites in ANH. Apparently, Lando was said to make an appearance as the code breaker with the red flower on his jacket, but they decided against that last minute - he would have been a welcome small cameo for me.

    Instead we get forced characters like Rose and Holdo just to tick a diversity box in the casting for the movie.

    If they wanted diversity and a strong female lead, why wasn't Rey cast as an Asian woman?

    Rose's character was essentially pointless and annoying to many of the audience.

    As for Holdo, she was supposed to be added to represent the LGBTQ community, who were apparently annoyed because all they got was a lady with purple hair, but lets be honest - what were they expecting? How far did they really think a pansexual character was going to be portrayed in a Disney movie?

    Its all garbage this SJW nonsense in movies today - create a good character, no matter what race they are and stick with it, but stop forcing all this diversity nonsense down our throats just because of some box that needs to be ticked.
  • Boo
    3804 posts Member
    I saw TLJ again.

    I was mainly upset the first time because it wasn't what I was expecting. Having come to that realization I rewatched the movie again and realised that overall its not a bad film.

    I hated what they did with Luke and how he died, but watching it again Kylo makes the comment to Rey in their first connection: "How are you doing this? it will kill you."

    This just shows Luke's true power in the force to cast a projection of himself across the galaxy with physical attributes, especially after he had severed himself from the force and only just reconnected with it. How taxing the use of the force would be to do this was fatal. Snoke was also able to do this by connecting Rey & Kylo, but only for brief moments.

    Luke was able to settle the conflict by not allowing Kylo to strike him down. he exuded his power in a way fitting of a peaceful and wise Jedi Master - ya it wasn't what I was expecting either - but makes sense.

    He also, as hinted in the opening scroll, sparked hope across the galaxy, not only by allowing the resistance to live on, but allowed others across the galaxy to be inspired by the story of him v the FO - the kids at the end were telling tales of Master Luke Skywalker - and the child at the end not only had Rose's resistance ring, but also used the force, pathing the way for a new generation of "jedi" and hope for the galaxy.

    The darkside constantly calls to force users and Luke's temptation to destroy another vader almost consumed him, but he ultimately rejected it. He came to terms with his failure, as that is a part of being a teacher, which was Yoda's last lesson to him.

    Yoda was happy to destroy the last remnants of the Jedi, because no matter what, whether they are called Jedi or Sith there will always be force users in the galaxy who will figure out how to use that power for light or dark, so Jedi or Sith are just names and ideas - not important. Without full training, Rey's soul was light - she had all she needed to go on. Snoke also commented on this.

    Although I have come to terms with what the movie has done (because I cannot change it) it still wasn't what I would have done.

    I hate plot holes and this movie fails to fill leaky plot points and creates more.

    Darth Plagueis could create life and Anakin was created by the force - how is Anakin "special" if others can use the force to create life?

    And - who was Snoke? His sudden appearance kind of makes the entire PT, R1 and OT pointless if after the conflict against the evil empire ends in favour of peace - the galaxy is back into turmoil with a new powerful darkside user - what was the point?

    I feel that warrants an explanation re: Snoke, and perhaps the Darth Plagueis is Snoke theory should have come to pass to clear those plot holes up?

    Leia comes back to life (in a rather ridiculous way) why? She does nothing for the rest of the movie and will not make an appearance in E9, they will write her character out of the movie, which is a terrible way to treat Leia's character.

    Han and Luke have had their character's stories concluded, but Leia will just disappear - why couldn't they have re-written the end so that Leia traded places with Holdo? leia would have sacrificed herself to save the resistance and hope for the galaxy - she cares about the galaxy more than family and herself. She did not shed a tear when Luke died or Han, and also had no investment in herself to train in the ways of the force - her focus has always been the Rebels, Resistance and the galaxy - so she would have given her life for it. Plus it would have been fitting - Twins, born together and both die in the same movie for the greater good of the galaxy.

    Anakin/Luke's lightsaber miraculously come back from being cut out of Luke's hand and falling down a bottomless pit - why did Maz have that lightsaber? Apparently it was a story for another time, which we will never get to hear.

    Plot holes are not appreciated - look at Lost!!!!

    C'mon Disney - clean it up.


  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    You probably feel like your beloved franchise is being used to push an agenda of sorts, right? It's okay, I understand how a person can feel that way, but let me tell you why you shouldn't. We don't have to look at it as pushing an agenda, instead we can look at it as Star Wars playing a role in helping people of different backgrounds, races, and genders to gain the visibility they deserve. It's trying to do a good thing for people, and I think that as a Star Wars fan, being able to have something I love bring some degree of balance and fairness to the real world is something I'm behind 100%.

    Or we could just have star wars and leave all the every day garbage we deal with out of it, stop projecting ourselves into that galaxy far far away, where we DON'T belong.[/quote]
    How is diversity and equal representation garbage?
  • Saw it again last night. The first time I watched it I was disappointed to say the least. Hated how they handled Luke's character, Poe's character, Leia's character, Rose, ect.

    I really enjoyed it the second time, and easily put it above any of the prequels. While I may not have made all the same decisions if I was writing/directing the movie, mine would have certainly came out as TFA 1.5 and much more fan service.

    I'm excited for Episode 9, and can't wait to see how this arc of the saga closes out.
This discussion has been closed.