Barriss Offee changes

Replies

  • jpiish wrote: »
    This nerf was a bad move by EA. I am one of those who bought Barris and she was very usefull in the beginning, so I do not regret buying her. With her on her team we have been able to progress faster than ftp players and have been able to get the other better characters as well as lvl'ing up the rest of the team. The problem with Barris is that she stagnates and becomes progressivly less useful when the rest of the team grows. Thus:
    Stage 1: in the beginning she (and doku) is OP! <- most ftp players are still here and their anger is understandable
    Stage 2: she is still usefull (I still use her), but your team has grown strong enough to shut her down when she defends (no longer OP)
    Stage 3a: You have gotten the best characters (that you can lvl without packs), given them max gear and max lvl. Since you can't lvl Barris. She has become irrelevant compaired to the rest of your team.
    Stage 3b: Have spent millions on this game and max lvl'd all the pack characters. You will never find Barris on these teams because she is a joke compaired to the best pack character even without synergies.

    Lastly the reason EA made a mistake is that we now know that the strongest buyable characters today, could be nerfed to oblivion tomorrow. Investing huge amounts in a pack with superstrong characters is no longer worth the gamble. Nerfs like this is good for game balance, but terrible for selling characters. imagine if they did the same with gems (nerf their value by doubling all the costs)

    Yup!
  • Fighton wrote: »
    Vallik wrote: »
    Skye wrote: »

    google used to be quick with refunds with Marvel Puzzle quest too, but that option also result in people being locked out of their accounts afterwards... As google itself can not remove the purchases you made within the game...

    So if you got your money back, be prepared to lose access to that account you had made your purchases...

    This is what happened to some users that requested a refund for purchases they made in Marvel Puzzle quest... I'm not sure if EA will do this, but I would prepare for the worst when it comes to losing access to that account. It'll probably be a lot easier to lock you out the account than remove the items you had purchased and got a refund for.

    if thats the route they go then i can get refunded on the rest of the purchases and come away clean

    Exactly
    .......it'll cost more to fight a $50 refund(and lock peeps out).....cause most peeps who bought the pack , have spent more, week in, And wk out......... all I know is amex has back if it came down to that.

    But it seems EA is gonna, make it right. ..and that all we want......we don't want to be taken advantage of.

    That's why I haven't applied for a refund yet. I'll wait to see what, if anything, will be done. This game got off to a really bad start with making me feel like I was being cheated. No crystal subscription, no opportunity to buy Dooku early for $5, and now greatly altering the first thing I spent money on.

    I don't need something for nothing, I don't need to unlock every character in 3 weeks. I just need to be treated fairly and not be made to feel cheated or taken advantage of.

  • Barress was not op. I never bought her and after getting really salty about her "healing" through heal immunity, I just adjusted my teams strat and as I grew in levels and gear she became less and less relevant. In GW I loved playing against Barress teams because it usually meant an easy win and a chance to get my team healed and CDs reset.

    Since I don't have her I don't know what playing with her was like, but I imagine that people playing with her had many of the same observations I did. (Her effectiveness dropping at higher levels and overall lack of utility) I thought she was a great toon that had one nice "tool" to heal like she used to. But with that gone, there's too many other toons asking for your energy and credits.

    Agreed, I love having her in GW, I leave her for last and once she attacks, I sub in all my damaged toons to heal up while I casually chip away at her.
    Ally Code: 945-699-762
  • Keaven
    1099 posts Member
    Daishi wrote: »
    I think they need to build a refund system into the game. I think we should have the ability to reset characters to level and skill 1 and get back all training and skill mats put into it.

    For premium characters I think each should have a sell back value in crystals.
    It is becoming glaringly obvious that the game was not designed with this kind of customer service in mind.
    Profile: Keaven
    Guild: Fear The Boot
  • Keaven wrote: »
    Daishi wrote: »
    I think they need to build a refund system into the game. I think we should have the ability to reset characters to level and skill 1 and get back all training and skill mats put into it.

    For premium characters I think each should have a sell back value in crystals.
    It is becoming glaringly obvious that the game was not designed with this kind of customer service in mind.

    To be fair, I'd bet you can't name me a single freemium CCG game that lets you do that. I've certainly never seen one.
  • ewok wrote: »
    Qeltar wrote: »
    ewok wrote: »
    I'm sorry that the people who paid to win got wrecked, but you guys need to pay attention to what you're purchasing.

    I did. What I have now is not even close to what I purchased.
    You can keep pretending that this doesn't matter, but it does.

    Why do you force me to repeat myself. Before you purchase something you need to do your research, this game made it clear that there will be updates(nerfs, buffs). You either bought barriss knowing this, or you didnt do enough research. Either way the only person you can blame is yourself.

    What's funny is that people are getting refunds. Your inability to see the issue does not mean there is no issue to be seen.
  • Hey guys please remember when making post to keep the conversations constructive and do not insult others on the forum. Thanks
  • Shizmoo
    99 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    ewok wrote: »
    Qeltar wrote: »
    ewok wrote: »
    Before you purchase something you need to do your research, this game made it clear that there will be updates(nerfs, buffs).

    Yes, they did. I consider this nerf excessive and am expressing my displeasure to a company TO WHOM I PAID MONEY.
    That is my right.
    I have not requested a refund from Google. I am telling the company TO WHOM I PAID MONEY that I am not happy with the change they made.
    If you don't like that, that's your problem.

    You have every right to complain, but in my opinion EA did nothing wrong.

    That's the problem, your opinion means nothing. Apple/Google Play's opinion is all that matters and they have deemed it wrong and refundable. Now pick up your bottle you keep throwing in a tantrum and kindly leave good sir.
  • Keaven wrote: »
    Daishi wrote: »
    I think they need to build a refund system into the game. I think we should have the ability to reset characters to level and skill 1 and get back all training and skill mats put into it.

    For premium characters I think each should have a sell back value in crystals.
    It is becoming glaringly obvious that the game was not designed with this kind of customer service in mind.

    To be fair, I'd bet you can't name me a single freemium CCG game that lets you do that. I've certainly never seen one.

    That Hearthstone game lets you sell cards at full value when they make any change to it's behavior. the difference here, is that you spend time/resources to upgrade the character, while for a simple card game, the card is the card and it's value never changes.

    So from that perspective, taking away Bariss as part of the refund wouldn't really be fair since people invested in her at the expense of someone else.

    To me, it seems silly to sell characters directly for cash in the first place, rather than just selling the crystals or the card packs that can be opened for things.
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    My prediction is that Barriss will be at least partially de-nerfed sometime in the next 24 hours.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • micfool
    14 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    Rofl all i saw a bunch of cry babies complaining about people getting their money back for something thats completely none of their business, just whinning and try to get free stuff. because in their eyes, its "not fair" for other people to get "free" stuff, while they literally are asking something for free at the same time, rofl
  • So I just want you all to realize, you are arguing with some kid/guy (sorry but I opt for kid when the person acts immature which we've seen here) named ewok who has close to one-third of his posts in this thread alone. Everyone could just stop arguing with him directly and have a much more constructive conversation as a whole because some great points have been made here.

    I'm going to use him as an example because threads like this occur on so many games and I can empathize with this type of person's situation but it doesn't justify the actions or their lack of understanding on how all this works because they feel frustrated.

    He clearly comes across as someone who didn't spend money or doesn't have money to spend on this game and that bothers him that others can spend money to get ahead faster than he can - or so he feels. He now most likely feels that EA has punished those dirty p2w people with this nerf and that is exactly what they deserve! Because currently in the gaming society anything deemed p2w is bad, evil, horrible, awful yada yada - not realizing that people need to spend money to keep these games alive.

    To touch some more on the psychology aspect of all of this - You guys mentioned the tons of people who will spend $5 vs the "few" who will spend $50-$100. Based on purchase patterns and statistics (f2p and p2w type games have been around for many years now in a lot of formats from social media platforms, stand-alone sites and apps) the spread and consistency of purchasing isn't what you might think....

    There was a post somewhere on here where someone went into detail about the mentality of the "I've already spent this much and invested my money and time and now I feel I need to keep spending to keep up or stay on top" - this can trigger on anyone from that $5 range to the $100 range and most people once the 'seal is broken' on spending can quickly accumulate a lot of transactions. The trick to micro-transactions is you don't spend a lot at once but spend a little often. This will boil down to someone's income, time invested and habitual spending habits. It can be addicting and a similar fight that you see occur with drugs and alcohol. - Game designers understand all this science and careful calculate the pricing of all micro-transactions. You aren't looking at a bulk of spenders on either end $5 or $100 but a more middle of the road $20-$50 range and those transactions happening quite often.

    EA does need the spenders to keep spending, many games die or can't fix bugs quick enough because they can't maintain the proper staff to handle it all. All of which results in a loss of playerbase and the game eventually dies. It takes a lot of developers, graphic designers, project managers, engineers etc to produce a game "as simple" as this one. Based on 52,110 downloads (at the time I wrote this) just for itunes and I'm not sure for android so let's just go with 110,000 so far (this might be way off - please feel free to chime in with android numbers).
    $5 x 110,000 = $550,000
    $40 x 110,000 = $4,400,000
    Avg app developer salary ~ $65,000/yr (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Application_Developer/Salary)

    $550,000 / $65,000 = 8.4 possible developers on this game at that rate not counting any overheard, equipment, management, etc

    And I doubt every person downloading paid the $5 much less $40 per person so we won't even run those numbers....

    Just trying to put some of this in perspective... F2P players NEED people with the P2W mindset to play their games to keep it going.

    Interestingly enough it has been pointed out countless times on this forum that it is more worthwhile to spend your time farming characters that can reach a 7* and are not solely DataCard characters alone which at best might be 5* upon spending a good chunk of cash.

    There are good and bad points to all of this but it is a bit soon to be nerfing or buffing characters drastically at this point in time. They also need to release the stat values across the board and show where the nerfs/buffs were truly effective. A character might be 6* Gear5 lvl50 but maybe the skills weren't leveled up yet and it feels weak compared to the same character in a different state. Until we can truly compare fully geared characters at max level and stats or on completely equal terms, everyone's opinions of what is or isn't strong will always differ based on where you are vs your opponent.

    There are a lot of variables that can effect the dynamics of a game like this and that is something to keep in mind with all of these discussions on what seems "fair" or "justified" either by EA or the player-base.



  • Barrok
    1753 posts Member
    Shizmoo wrote: »
    ewok wrote: »
    Qeltar wrote: »
    ewok wrote: »
    Before you purchase something you need to do your research, this game made it clear that there will be updates(nerfs, buffs).

    Yes, they did. I consider this nerf excessive and am expressing my displeasure to a company TO WHOM I PAID MONEY.
    That is my right.
    I have not requested a refund from Google. I am telling the company TO WHOM I PAID MONEY that I am not happy with the change they made.
    If you don't like that, that's your problem.

    You have every right to complain, but in my opinion EA did nothing wrong.

    That's the problem, your opinion means nothing. Apple/Google Play's opinion is all that matters and they have deemed it wrong and refundable. Now pick up your bottle you keep throwing in a tantrum and kindly leave good sir.

    Just because Google refunds you doesn't mean EA/CG was in the wrong.

    They are well within their rights to update their game. You are paying for the rights to get access to a certain character. You don't own that character. You don't have control over if they update it or not.

    Google and Apple are about keeping customers happy. Sometimes making a change in a game will make people unhappy. Banning a card in magic the gathering really sucks, and hurts the value of cards and jacks up your deck, but you have to move on. These F2p games don't have that flexibility because everyone complains if something they purchased changes.

    What inevitably will happen is this game will follow how hearthstone does it. If a card is changed, you can get 100% back the cost of the card (in ingame currency), i(n hearthstone it is in dust i think). So, you can just use it for another character. I am guessing here, they would put some value on a 4* at something like 2400 crystals (so you can buy an 8 pack or something).
  • Vampire_X
    1435 posts Moderator
    every game has some compensation system , wow gave time before and items and while details always vary

    Paid customers have legal rights and it's usually in the best interest of a company to do right and alive it internally but we will see what Cg does here or else they will hermege money from the mobile providers in full refunds
    Wicked Sith Queen with the Pink Saber
  • jonibunz
    5 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    *Removed for Forum Violation*
  • Otar
    252 posts Member
    Leapster wrote: »
    Until we can truly compare fully geared characters at max level and stats or on completely equal terms, everyone's opinions of what is or isn't strong will always differ based on where you are vs your opponent.

    Out of curiosity, what do you propose then? First off, EA/CG don't release stats, skills, mechanics, a wiki, or any kind of information at all. Even if we could have every mechanic on paper, still, we can't audit the software to see whats really going on... In my view, that makes this a guess/feel game.
  • I personally think is not ok to ask for a refund guys. Why? Because this Bariss carried you to higher levels, and higher levels means higher rewards in all aspects of game. Challenges, Arena, GW, Cantina, Light side progress, account level, daily tasks etc....

    For sure they are not gonna downgrade and restrict everything that you earned while having Bariss. It's not fair towards the whole community and it's creating a big imbalance cause it's some sort of "legaly cheating".
  • jonibunz
    5 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    *Edited for forum violation - Please do not post in all caps*
  • Vampire_X
    1435 posts Moderator
    The law amazingly supersedes your ideas of FairPlay and thank goodness cg is based in the good ole USA

    And attorney general office of California has a website too for IP issues so let's stop acting like this is utopia

    Real world real laws real money real results


    Enough of the Internet tough talk
    Wicked Sith Queen with the Pink Saber
  • Otar wrote: »
    Leapster wrote: »
    Until we can truly compare fully geared characters at max level and stats or on completely equal terms, everyone's opinions of what is or isn't strong will always differ based on where you are vs your opponent.

    Out of curiosity, what do you propose then? First off, EA/CG don't release stats, skills, mechanics, a wiki, or any kind of information at all. Even if we could have every mechanic on paper, still, we can't audit the software to see whats really going on... In my view, that makes this a guess/feel game.
    ---
    Right now it is a guess/feel game and that is part of the problem. A lot of dedicated players like to theorycraft and plan ahead and with that ability can better justify where each character truly resides in power along their progression path.

    If they were to release those stats they could validate their reasons for making the changes and show hard numbers compared to other characters which would satisfy a lot of the guessing game of "how good is she really" - clear communication would benefit them greatly from these types of scenarios.

    Most games balance for the endgame because that's where eventually most people will spend their time. The in-between will almost always be unbalanced because you can't match up player to player and expect them to be exactly at the right spot with all characters/levels/gear etc.

    Stats on paper would solve a lot. What do you mean by audit the software to see what is going on? I don't understand how you need to audit the functionality of the software to understand or devise strategies at character balancing or changes.... are you alluding to the amount of players using the character itself? Popularity should not dictate the strength of a character, however strong characters will tend to be used more often than not because people like to win and use the best tools available to them. That doesn't make those characters bad but shows the needs to further develop additional characters or traits that can equalize the playing field as time goes on.
    But this needs to be done with a balance between easily accessible characters f2p can farm and a handful of paid characters that will give you an instant boost (4* off the start) but might take a lot longer to farm up due to lack of places to farm them. Which I think was their intention for the long-term just not executed well at this time.
  • ^ Just to point out that there is no such thing as "legally cheating" it's a contradiction, like the living dead. I think the term you are looking for is "morally wrong" which is subject to opinion.
  • ^ Just to point out that there is no such thing as "legally cheating" it's a contradiction, like the living dead. I think the term you are looking for is "morally wrong" which is subject to opinion.

    Yea buddy, good point, you are totally right. That's what i meant :)
  • Otar
    252 posts Member
    Leapster wrote: »
    What do you mean by audit the software to see what is going on? I don't understand how you need to audit the functionality of the software to understand or devise strategies at character balancing or changes....

    I meant as in, they could tell me that Sidius have 35% evasion chance, but the software could have a bug, bad programming or anything else, and i would not have a way of knowing if it's 35% or 10% or 50%. I don't mean release the code also, but have a 3th party company audit it.
  • Less whine, more cheese!
    Play on.
  • Jabberwocky
    1809 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    There's a database of character stats being built at swgohcantina.com plus a synergy tool and a bunch of guides and all character skill information.

    Highly recommend it.

    He's also got a breakdown on drop rates on cards.
    Ally Code: 945-699-762
  • Otar
    252 posts Member
    There's a database of character stats being built at swgohcantina.com plus a synergy tool and a bunch of guides and all character skill information.

    Highly recommend it.

    He's also got a breakdown on drop rates on cards.

    Im sorry man, you are doing the comunity a great favor by trying, and i know that's the best we can do right now.

    But back to my point, if i would not believe even EA/CG information (if they ever publish any) without a 3th party auditing the code, you can guess what i think about self reported databases. I don't know if its because i work security and i would never spend my $$$ without knowing for sure, or if im just being a ****, but that's me.
  • Otar wrote: »
    But back to my point, if i would not believe even EA/CG information (if they ever publish any) without a 3th party auditing the code

    We're not going to knowingly lie about our game. Sometimes there are bugs and we are wrong by accident, but lying? That's not a thing we do.

    -Aaron
  • Leapster
    124 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    Otar wrote: »
    There's a database of character stats being built at swgohcantina.com plus a synergy tool and a bunch of guides and all character skill information.

    Highly recommend it.

    He's also got a breakdown on drop rates on cards.

    I'm sorry man, you are doing the community a great favor by trying, and i know that's the best we can do right now.

    But back to my point, if i would not believe even EA/CG information (if they ever publish any) without a 3th party auditing the code, you can guess what i think about self reported databases. I don't know if its because i work security and i would never spend my $$$ without knowing for sure, or if im just being a ****, but that's me.

    3rd party auditing is very expensive and still not 100% reliable. Sadly coming from a programming background you do need to; in an essence, trust that the code is working and the percentages are correctly functioning. Granted they might not be and there could be bugs but neither a 3rd party or the community can truly do anything about it except let EA know and in most situations they know when things are broken it just takes time to fix and implement changes. It doesn't justify it being broken but it is the reality of the development world and large corporations.

    As a side note - swgohcantina is doing a great job and we can all help contribute to create a better database and be able to use some hard numbers to theorycraft with. Thanks to the well spoken and active members of the community for sharing their information and to those who have spent a lot of money to test and speed things along so others can make more informed decisions.
  • Leapster
    124 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    Otar wrote: »
    But back to my point, if i would not believe even EA/CG information (if they ever publish any) without a 3th party auditing the code

    We're not going to knowingly lie about our game. Sometimes there are bugs and we are wrong by accident, but lying? That's not a thing we do.

    -Aaron

    Aaron it is nice to see you guys active on these threads and to put a human perspective on the situation. People sometimes just see "EA" as this big corporate monster that is money hungry and greedy but forget there is a human aspect and people working hard in their 40 hr + jobs to bring a game they feel passionate about to the customers and players. I know there are a lot of rules within EA on what you guys can and can't say but if possible try to get some freedom to be very candid and humanize the responses across the board (not saying you aren't but just throwing this out there as something to keep in mind). In our society of instant gratification people still prefer a personal and human approach/response when their feelings are involved.

    The game is awesome, we all realize it needs some work and polishing but i think with a clear channel of communication your player-base is willing to walk that road with you and just want to know their voice is being heard (when appropriate and sans name-calling or negative attacks).
  • I feel sorry for Capital Games, they are at the command of EA who obviously rushed the game and are forced to deal with the backlash of EA decisions. Then again I don't feel sorry because I know they are making a good bit of money as well :P
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