I'm glad it will get fixed. It's obvioulsy broken and i don't give a fudge about the money. (i'm f2p)
How is a character doing what they are supposed to do "obviously broken"?
Allowing an entire squad to survive for 15 minutes or more AFTER Enrage (on full auto) is not “doing what they are supposed to do.”
Rancor can be done full auto without even letting it have a single turn. This is not even the whole raid, just one and half phase. In the rest, whale-focused JTR still dominates.
And yes, STHan is indeed doing what he is supposed to. His mechanics don't change in the raid, he does exactly the same thing as anywhere else: give tm when damaged. Face the truth, they just don't want a free and common character to have a big impact.
Preventing a boss from getting to Enrage is WAI in the Pit and AAT raids. They fully accept that in Pit and AAT. The Sith Raid was intended to be designed so that those tactics do not work. The bosses are supposed to get to Enrage and you are supposed to die quickly. STH BREAKS this intended mechanic. Therefore he is not working as intended in the raid. Either he needs to be changed or the raid needs to be changed.
Sure, just like it is intended for Nihilus to be extremely hard to debuff and reduce tm, but JTR BREAKS this leading to massive damage. Following your logic, she is also not working as intended and the nerf hammer should hit her as well. But she is very hard to get without spending, so it's fine...
First of all, she was not very hard to get without spending. I didn't spend, and I got her no problem.
Secondly, the two phases have different mechanics and difficulties, so it is hard to compare. However, the reason JTR doesn't work against Traya (even with similar TMR mechanics) is because her TMR relies on specials being used by a specific faction and only on exposed enemies. Works great against DN for that reason, but because there isn't enough TM gain to go with the TMR, it doesn't work very well against Traya.
I'm glad it will get fixed. It's obvioulsy broken and i don't give a fudge about the money. (i'm f2p)
How is a character doing what they are supposed to do "obviously broken"?
Allowing an entire squad to survive for 15 minutes or more AFTER Enrage (on full auto) is not “doing what they are supposed to do.”
Rancor can be done full auto without even letting it have a single turn. This is not even the whole raid, just one and half phase. In the rest, whale-focused JTR still dominates.
And yes, STHan is indeed doing what he is supposed to. His mechanics don't change in the raid, he does exactly the same thing as anywhere else: give tm when damaged. Face the truth, they just don't want a free and common character to have a big impact.
Preventing a boss from getting to Enrage is WAI in the Pit and AAT raids. They fully accept that in Pit and AAT. The Sith Raid was intended to be designed so that those tactics do not work. The bosses are supposed to get to Enrage and you are supposed to die quickly. STH BREAKS this intended mechanic. Therefore he is not working as intended in the raid. Either he needs to be changed or the raid needs to be changed.
Sure, just like it is intended for Nihilus to be extremely hard to debuff and reduce tm, but JTR BREAKS this leading to massive damage. Following your logic, she is also not working as intended and the nerf hammer should hit her as well. But she is very hard to get without spending, so it's fine...
Extremely hard=\=impossible.
Sure. Point?
It is supposed to be impossible for any toon to due significant damage after enrage.
It is very hard to reduce nihilus Tm. But its possible.
Also, @Afa, @Nauros, would you look at the OG Kylo scenario? what makes it different from STHan? are you just supporting this specific instance where you actually stand to benefit? Argue fora kylo lash out loop and i ll entertain you.
I'm glad it will get fixed. It's obvioulsy broken and i don't give a fudge about the money. (i'm f2p)
How is a character doing what they are supposed to do "obviously broken"?
Allowing an entire squad to survive for 15 minutes or more AFTER Enrage (on full auto) is not “doing what they are supposed to do.”
Rancor can be done full auto without even letting it have a single turn. This is not even the whole raid, just one and half phase. In the rest, whale-focused JTR still dominates.
And yes, STHan is indeed doing what he is supposed to. His mechanics don't change in the raid, he does exactly the same thing as anywhere else: give tm when damaged. Face the truth, they just don't want a free and common character to have a big impact.
Preventing a boss from getting to Enrage is WAI in the Pit and AAT raids. They fully accept that in Pit and AAT. The Sith Raid was intended to be designed so that those tactics do not work. The bosses are supposed to get to Enrage and you are supposed to die quickly. STH BREAKS this intended mechanic. Therefore he is not working as intended in the raid. Either he needs to be changed or the raid needs to be changed.
Sure, just like it is intended for Nihilus to be extremely hard to debuff and reduce tm, but JTR BREAKS this leading to massive damage. Following your logic, she is also not working as intended and the nerf hammer should hit her as well. But she is very hard to get without spending, so it's fine...
JTR is 100% WAI. She’s listed in the Raid Details as getting bonuses for the raid. She is intended to be a powerful character in the raid. She does exactly what she is supposed to do. Now if her potential damage was 3 or 4 times what it is then she might not be WAI.
Ok. So, CG nerfed it. How? Does anyone know exactly what they changed to fix (ruin) this? If they’re going to alter the game, they need to tell us how do we can adjust strategy.
Going past enrage is the most logical argument I've heard for 'fixing' this. And there's certainly precident for that.
Im not arguing they shouldn’t fix it, but this shouldn’t be the reason. NS in HAAT have no problem going well past enrage. Daka and Ventress stack so much health that they can survive several hits past enrage, and under Talzin lead both can easily continue the revive cycle, which removes the healing immunity.
But the devs didn’t care one bit about that because it only works if you have a 7* Talzin, a P2P character. Which is why people get ticked about this stuff. If the “exploits” make them money then they never get fixed.
Several hits =/= 15min on full auto up to a point where the lag gets so bad your phone crashes.
In the legendary words of sinead o'connor; "Nothing compares, nothing compares... to st hannnnnnnn"
Well, it’s only several hits because by then the phase is finished. Ventress is doing several hundred thousand damage per hit at that point, so it’s over quickly. Does requiring it to be manual vs auto make a difference? I don’t see why. StHan actually takes hours, not minutes, to complete on auto. The Ventress/Talzin “exploit” in tank is much easier as it is very quick.
Again, my point isn’t that it shouldn’t be fixed. My point is that CG dropped the ball here and now is in a no win situation, and that the speed at which they address something like this (or don’t address it at all) is directly linked to how it impacts their finances. You know if Teebo was a P2P character his stealth bug would have been fixed within 2 weeks.
I'm reasonably sure if the same thing happened to a p2w character instead of to st han it would also be adressed as quickly as it is now.
I for one am glad they're adressing it. I don't know why everyone has to compare it to different situations and make it about p2p vs f2p. What the fudge has this fix got to do with teebo? If anything, teebo would have broken the rancor if he got fixed, wich might even have been the reason they didn't fix him.
Except there have been numerous characters that have “broken” the tank raid. But they haven’t done anything about them, because they all made them money. Clones were a faction no one had and required a zeta (those were even more rare and valuable at the time). Thrawn and CLS were special characters (hell CLS could solo Pit BY HIMSELF!). Talzin that I mentioned required money. Why didn’t they care about any of these trivializing their raid? Oh, because it meant players wanted to get these characters and used resources on them.
It’s not that Han makes the raid too easy, it’s that we found a character that does it without requiring players to spend a high amount of money/resources.
Except those numerous characters didn't "break" either raid within a week of it's release.
That’s a straw mans argument. Why does it matter when they broke the raid? Anytime we bring up relacing older content like the Rancor Raid it’s brought up how for new players it is fresh content that is important to them.
The model is straightforward. They introduce new content that is extremely difficult based on current characters. They introduce new characters/concepts that make the raid easy and then rake in the money charging for them. This Han strategy undermines their ability to make money so it’s a problem.
Again, let me remind you that CLS can solo the Pit raid on auto by himself. But that’s not considered broken by the devs and doesn’t need fixed.
Ok. So, CG nerfed it. How? Does anyone know exactly what they changed to fix (ruin) this? If they’re going to alter the game, they need to tell us how do we can adjust strategy.
My guess is they will say this is a bug and that damage is only supposed to proc once when you select an ability. Double attacks or assists are currently triggering multiple procs. Removing that will mean Han gains 20% TM every cycle, so this will only work for a handful of cycles and then you have to find away to keep everyone alive (or revive them) so you can cycle through it again.
That’s a straw mans argument. Why does it matter when they broke the raid? Anytime we bring up relacing older content like the Rancor Raid it’s brought up how for new players it is fresh content that is important to them.
The model is straightforward. They introduce new content that is extremely difficult based on current characters. They introduce new characters/concepts that make the raid easy and then rake in the money charging for them. This Han strategy undermines their ability to make money so it’s a problem.
Again, let me remind you that CLS can solo the Pit raid on auto by himself. But that’s not considered broken by the devs and doesn’t need fixed.
You do realize you anwsered your own questions right?
The model is indeed straightforward, you did however forget to mention that it's more fun that way and not just about the money. St han undermines both.
I'm glad it will get fixed. It's obvioulsy broken and i don't give a fudge about the money. (i'm f2p)
First, let me say I'm fine with them changing it in the raid. I ran it in a t6 today and it's just silly.
However, it is *not* broken. The mechanics work exactly as designed. It's also not like the Nute thing, which specifically required low gear characters. This requires significant investment to work.
Compared to a RJT team or a zzKRU team, its a jokingky small amount of investmenr.
It's not about relativity. A full g11+ team and at least one zeta is a big investment.
The guy offering the easy fix of just changing Treya to remove health instead of damage? No way man. That ruins my team I just tried on Treya yesterday that did 2.9 million. Krennic and DT, with shore and thrawn. Ext. Point is. Shore taunts so empire get 15% back on specials, thrawn fractures which gives 15% back on specials. Now every time krennic is damaged 50% chance of 100% tm for death trooper who is constantly using Death mark and basic. I hit 10 times with Death Trooper before treya hit once. Now I want someone to test out Zader with that combo... I dont have zader but the tm removal.. unresistable.. plus magma trooper who attacks twice.. might be able to stack turn meter removal and get maybe 12 or more hits before treya hits.
Okay, so we can agree that StHan shouldnt let to solo( almost) phase 3. And I think this is good nerf for gaming. Still I think that JTR teams are broken in this raid. Why? Couse for now there is not even one team that could do same lvl of dmg. But this raid allowed at least few team compositions be so good at the same lvl. In PIT, HAAt there is some diversity but here no. Only one team is the best. That is not gaming when You have more than 100 toons.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
That’s a straw mans argument. Why does it matter when they broke the raid? Anytime we bring up relacing older content like the Rancor Raid it’s brought up how for new players it is fresh content that is important to them.
The model is straightforward. They introduce new content that is extremely difficult based on current characters. They introduce new characters/concepts that make the raid easy and then rake in the money charging for them. This Han strategy undermines their ability to make money so it’s a problem.
Again, let me remind you that CLS can solo the Pit raid on auto by himself. But that’s not considered broken by the devs and doesn’t need fixed.
You do realize you anwsered your own questions right?
The model is indeed straightforward, you did however forget to mention that it's more fun that way and not just about the money. St han undermines both.
So why are you arguing with me. My point al song has been criticizing this model. You can have fun with it, great. I’d much prefer to work on the characters I want, instead of chasing P2P characters to avoid falling behind in the arena meta.
Ok. So, CG nerfed it. How? Does anyone know exactly what they changed to fix (ruin) this? If they’re going to alter the game, they need to tell us how do we can adjust strategy.
I would imagine they'd add something like "This damage cannot trigger damage-related secondary effects" to the description of the Traya's unique. So units like stHan and Kylo wouldn't get bonuses from taking that damage.
One way to handle this would be another Enrage modification, such as disabling tm gain when the boss is enraged. That would solve the issue of going past Enrage, which many people here claim to be their main concern (or is it just that they don't want competition for their JTR?) while leaving most things intact. Somehow, I don't think the devs will settle for this...
One way to handle this would be another Enrage modification, such as disabling tm gain when the boss is enraged. That would solve the issue of going past Enrage, which many people here claim to be their main concern (or is it just that they don't want competition for their JTR?) while leaving most things intact. Somehow, I don't think the devs will settle for this...
One way to handle this would be another Enrage modification, such as disabling tm gain when the boss is enraged. That would solve the issue of going past Enrage, which many people here claim to be their main concern (or is it just that they don't want competition for their JTR?) while leaving most things intact. Somehow, I don't think the devs will settle for this...
One way to handle this would be another Enrage modification, such as disabling tm gain when the boss is enraged. That would solve the issue of going past Enrage, which many people here claim to be their main concern (or is it just that they don't want competition for their JTR?) while leaving most things intact. Somehow, I don't think the devs will settle for this...
Does the STHan squad even get to enrage in P3?
Not sure, but from reading this thread, I got the impression that going past Enrage is what grinds people's gears the most.
That’s a straw mans argument. Why does it matter when they broke the raid? Anytime we bring up relacing older content like the Rancor Raid it’s brought up how for new players it is fresh content that is important to them.
The model is straightforward. They introduce new content that is extremely difficult based on current characters. They introduce new characters/concepts that make the raid easy and then rake in the money charging for them. This Han strategy undermines their ability to make money so it’s a problem.
Again, let me remind you that CLS can solo the Pit raid on auto by himself. But that’s not considered broken by the devs and doesn’t need fixed.
You do realize you anwsered your own questions right?
The model is indeed straightforward, you did however forget to mention that it's more fun that way and not just about the money. St han undermines both.
It, in no way, undermines the fun for most except the hardcore people. Those people are probably ALREADY in a guild with 50 JTR's so why they care is beyond me. The people in strong but mortal guilds are drowning with no options outside of JTR to do significant damage.
One way to handle this would be another Enrage modification, such as disabling tm gain when the boss is enraged. That would solve the issue of going past Enrage, which many people here claim to be their main concern (or is it just that they don't want competition for their JTR?) while leaving most things intact. Somehow, I don't think the devs will settle for this...
Does the STHan squad even get to enrage in P3?
Not sure, but from reading this thread, I got the impression that going past Enrage is what grinds people's gears the most.
It’s the only thing I think is not WAI. Otherwise I’m perfectly happy with the insane TM gain and damage. But once it is supposed to end, it should end. The entire point of Enrage is to end the battle.
And I doubt most people that support a change to STH (or the raid mechanic) are supporting the idea to remove competition for JTR. I would guess that most people that have JTR are likely to have a pretty good STH and thus can benefit as much, or more from how how STH currently works.
That’s a straw mans argument. Why does it matter when they broke the raid? Anytime we bring up relacing older content like the Rancor Raid it’s brought up how for new players it is fresh content that is important to them.
The model is straightforward. They introduce new content that is extremely difficult based on current characters. They introduce new characters/concepts that make the raid easy and then rake in the money charging for them. This Han strategy undermines their ability to make money so it’s a problem.
Again, let me remind you that CLS can solo the Pit raid on auto by himself. But that’s not considered broken by the devs and doesn’t need fixed.
You do realize you anwsered your own questions right?
The model is indeed straightforward, you did however forget to mention that it's more fun that way and not just about the money. St han undermines both.
So why are you arguing with me. My point al song has been criticizing this model. You can have fun with it, great. I’d much prefer to work on the characters I want, instead of chasing P2P characters to avoid falling behind in the arena meta.
Right. Well, you just left me wondering if you're really that oblivious to one of the aspects that makes this game fun to play for months on end or if you're playing the wrong kinda game.
it probably isn't though. A series of small increases in the amount of dmg you can do is way more fun than being able to solo an entire phase right from the get go.
I'm not saying i want to chip away each phase 0.5% at the time though.
it probably isn't though. A series of small increases in the amount of dmg you can do is way more fun than being able to solo an entire phase right from the get go.
I'm not saying i want to chip away each phase 0.5% at the time though.
Exactly. That is why JTR and some of the other effective teams people have found that do 2-6 million are perfect for this raid right now. You need those kind of teams to help to top end of a guild do more than their 2% to make up for low end members that do less than their 2%. Since most guilds aren’t Shatterpoint or Instinct and loaded with people top to bottom all capable of doing well over their 2%.
But at the same time, early on you don’t really want many (or any) teams doing 25% or more. It causs balancing issues between guilds and within guilds.
So they'll patch this, but nihilus is taking 3 turns in a row in p1 instead of 2, and sometimes skipping annihilate? That breaks an actual mechanic built into the raid. How can I time the buff right if I have to guess how many times I'll get hit and if he'll annihilate or not?
Replies
First of all, she was not very hard to get without spending. I didn't spend, and I got her no problem.
Secondly, the two phases have different mechanics and difficulties, so it is hard to compare. However, the reason JTR doesn't work against Traya (even with similar TMR mechanics) is because her TMR relies on specials being used by a specific faction and only on exposed enemies. Works great against DN for that reason, but because there isn't enough TM gain to go with the TMR, it doesn't work very well against Traya.
It is supposed to be impossible for any toon to due significant damage after enrage.
It is very hard to reduce nihilus Tm. But its possible.
Also, @Afa, @Nauros, would you look at the OG Kylo scenario? what makes it different from STHan? are you just supporting this specific instance where you actually stand to benefit? Argue fora kylo lash out loop and i ll entertain you.
JTR is 100% WAI. She’s listed in the Raid Details as getting bonuses for the raid. She is intended to be a powerful character in the raid. She does exactly what she is supposed to do. Now if her potential damage was 3 or 4 times what it is then she might not be WAI.
That’s a straw mans argument. Why does it matter when they broke the raid? Anytime we bring up relacing older content like the Rancor Raid it’s brought up how for new players it is fresh content that is important to them.
The model is straightforward. They introduce new content that is extremely difficult based on current characters. They introduce new characters/concepts that make the raid easy and then rake in the money charging for them. This Han strategy undermines their ability to make money so it’s a problem.
Again, let me remind you that CLS can solo the Pit raid on auto by himself. But that’s not considered broken by the devs and doesn’t need fixed.
My guess is they will say this is a bug and that damage is only supposed to proc once when you select an ability. Double attacks or assists are currently triggering multiple procs. Removing that will mean Han gains 20% TM every cycle, so this will only work for a handful of cycles and then you have to find away to keep everyone alive (or revive them) so you can cycle through it again.
You do realize you anwsered your own questions right?
The model is indeed straightforward, you did however forget to mention that it's more fun that way and not just about the money. St han undermines both.
What about full g12 and 7 zetas?
So why are you arguing with me. My point al song has been criticizing this model. You can have fun with it, great. I’d much prefer to work on the characters I want, instead of chasing P2P characters to avoid falling behind in the arena meta.
Your version of fun is different than mine
I would imagine they'd add something like "This damage cannot trigger damage-related secondary effects" to the description of the Traya's unique. So units like stHan and Kylo wouldn't get bonuses from taking that damage.
In the same time could you make triumvira immune to death mark please ? Thanks in advance !!!
That is brilliantly simple and effective. Kudos
Does the STHan squad even get to enrage in P3?
This is a treasure
Not sure, but from reading this thread, I got the impression that going past Enrage is what grinds people's gears the most.
It, in no way, undermines the fun for most except the hardcore people. Those people are probably ALREADY in a guild with 50 JTR's so why they care is beyond me. The people in strong but mortal guilds are drowning with no options outside of JTR to do significant damage.
It’s the only thing I think is not WAI. Otherwise I’m perfectly happy with the insane TM gain and damage. But once it is supposed to end, it should end. The entire point of Enrage is to end the battle.
And I doubt most people that support a change to STH (or the raid mechanic) are supporting the idea to remove competition for JTR. I would guess that most people that have JTR are likely to have a pretty good STH and thus can benefit as much, or more from how how STH currently works.
Right. Well, you just left me wondering if you're really that oblivious to one of the aspects that makes this game fun to play for months on end or if you're playing the wrong kinda game.
I'm not saying i want to chip away each phase 0.5% at the time though.
Exactly. That is why JTR and some of the other effective teams people have found that do 2-6 million are perfect for this raid right now. You need those kind of teams to help to top end of a guild do more than their 2% to make up for low end members that do less than their 2%. Since most guilds aren’t Shatterpoint or Instinct and loaded with people top to bottom all capable of doing well over their 2%.
But at the same time, early on you don’t really want many (or any) teams doing 25% or more. It causs balancing issues between guilds and within guilds.
This + one million.
We'll break Han because it's too easy to win more challenge gear. Good job folks.