This is not nerfing expose for other areas of the game.
Thanks my first FAQ
So, something which was working for a year, won't be anymore.
Young guilds I've been taking care and instructing to farm resistance to succeed in HAAT ... hmm, how to say that, sorry guys, my bad, actually it doesn't work.
1. Expose is not being removed only slightly reduced impact for Rancor and HAAT
2. Both Raids have many options for managing.
Let's not get too sensational or hyperbolic.
RT
That was a quick turn around, "shouldn't" to "slight impact" in half an hour. If I hang round for a bit will it be "massive impact"?
All that time and energy and money they've invested is now for naught..
Expose is not going away. It will be marginally impacted on previous content. You're investments will still work
You will see minimal impact. Let's circle back after the update!
RT
My question is how are you guys surprised that JTR and squad achieve as much damage as they do in the raid?
You guys didn't test your flagship hero to see how she performed in the new raid?
Seems like you had to know that jtr performed better than the other teams. This move really looks like a punitive action against the community because some members complained about jtr being the only useful team.
I wanted to get it early enough for me to spend a few hours with all of you
It is awesome that you go into the lions pit and adress some concerns. I just feel that some answers, how well intended they mayb be add more oil into the fire.
Also if Cg would adress or at least discuss and explain other issues in the game with the same energy like raid balancing is explained here, it wouldnt be necessary to bring up those other issues like unnecessary gear in this thread.
So a couple of points of feedback I want to share and hope for a response from CG team:
1. While I understand some things fall through the cracks considering there is over 180+ toons, I don’t understand how the expose damage mechanic was missed during testing. If it is being claimed that raids are “regularly evaluated” and tweaked, the expose mechanic has been something being utilized in the tank raid for several months if not a full year. So with that in mind, I am unsure how this mechanic can be claimed as “slipping through the cracks” when we have had several months of evidence on how the expose mechanic works in raids.
2. I would like to know what we define as the “spirit of the game”. As stated by @CG_RyDiggs raid content encourages strategic thinking which for the sake of my argument I will define as follows: encouraging players to find different combinations of toons that will work effectively to do the most damage possible” with jay in mind, ST Han was a direct result of strategic, critical thinking on how the toon operated and utilizing the raid mechanics. It seems a bit hypocritical of the devs to change this function now.
3. The OP states that “teams within the first week” of raid release fall into the category of “undermining the design spirit”. Is this saying if we found this raid mechanic later on, that it would have been allowed to stay? With the way we are able to solo the rancor and now the Haat, the perception given seems to be that CG simply didn’t expect us to figure out this raid so quickly.
I don’t want this to be perceived as me bashing CG or taken in a negative light so while I am complaining and requesting for a response I want to offer some solutions hopefully create a more productive/constructive conversation:
1. Rather than implementing an enrage counter after a certain amount of turns, make it so each run is timed similar to how attacks function in arena. While this may not directly solve teams from soloing raids, it can limit damage done in a phase and/or make it more difficult to complete raids without having to add a bunch of exceptions on toons abilities.
2. Make the rewards feel like a reward. Han Solo, GK, and Treya are all great toons, however the amount of work put into a raid is fairly large and the reward for completing one is miniscual in comparison. While it has been said many times in this forum, removing challenge gear would be a good start.
If you made it this far into my post, hope it was worth the read and would welcome any constructive criticism on my points. I enjoy this game and hope we as a community and dev team can help push it in the right direction.
@CG_RyDiggs Hiya, just wanted to chime in. I don’t know if I will be heard but why nerf all these characters for performing the way they are supposed to?
Couldn’t you just make Traya not remove as much TM which creates the endless loop?
I did invest in st han. And now seeing him nerfed is kinda a slap in the face after trying endless teams to finally have one that did something in this raid. I could have used the stun gun elsewhere since I never use st han for anything and finally saw a use for him. Now he is back on the shelf.
Also can the rewards be random please I have way too many scanners from almost every raid. This way I can actually gear characters to play your game.
so the question is. I am in a small guild a little over 30m GP. We are sooo close to doing HAAT. We have been farming Resistance teams for months now for P2....should we continue?
This is not nerfing expose for other areas of the game.
Thanks my first FAQ
So, something which was working for a year, won't be anymore.
Young guilds I've been taking care and instructing to farm resistance to succeed in HAAT ... hmm, how to say that, sorry guys, my bad, actually it doesn't work.
1. Expose is not being removed only slightly reduced impact for Rancor and HAAT
2. Both Raids have many options for managing.
Let's not get too sensational or hyperbolic.
RT
@CG_RyDiggs Maybe you should be less condescending to the customers that pay your salary. In the alternative, find someone that’s capable of responding to those that are angry. It’s called customer service.
My apologies, I understand the changes can be jarring. I'm not trying to dismiss the sentiment.
I do need to separate facts from hyperbole and speculation. I'll work on my tone for sure. Feedback noted and appreciated.
RT
Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
so the question is. I am in a small guild a little over 30m GP. We are sooo close to doing HAAT. We have been farming Resistance teams for months now for P2....should we continue?
They will likely still be effective just not nearly as effective as they were before
On whole, I have no issue with your policy and implementation.
"We regularly evaluate, and update, the current state of any Raid. This regular evaluation can lead to changes such as tuning tweaks, adjustment of rewards, and bug fixes."
Okay, so when was the last time anything was truly done to the Pit and AAT raids for rewards that would equate to 'regularly'? I know you'll say 'can lead' but that's far too easy an answer.
I'm not saying get rid of the challenge gear, who cares if we have thousands.
The issue is that the rewards are not equal to the effort, nor are they equal to the task of moderate development of the many toons (always increasing) in the game.
I'm sure you have data on how many people just do 0 and collect there pittance.
Please just add some more required gear and bump up the currency payouts; which seems to be inline with your policy just not your practice.
Thank you.
That’s exactly where these changes hit...on the (w)hole.
Thanks for the time and feedback (both posters). We're always evaluating past content as new stuff comes out.
If the time comes to implement changes in the area you mention, we'll be announcing it here too.
Feedback absolutely noted and appreciated.
RT
Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
Real life money, real time, real people play this game. The frequency in which this company seems to forget that is absolutely astonishing. Never in my life have I dealt with a company that has a such a flagrant disregard of this until now. Most of us are not children, we don't deserve to be treated as such. You create a product, you test the product, you deliver the product. You don't underhandedly change the product at a whim AFTER its been in your customers hands, because you don't like it, unless it's to improve the customers experience. We're talking about an online, game in which people have decided to dedicate portions of their life to.
And now this philosophy and overly dramatic change comes on the heels of your customers spending time, hard earned money, and resources they've acquired on this product that you delivered in what you've admitted was poorly constructed.
@CG_RyDiggs, no amount of "active listening" tactics that you're attempting to employ here are going to ease the situation. You want to fix the situation? You effect real change, real policy shifts, and you honor the investments that the people that keep this game running have made. Empty promises and rhetoric are not going to make this better.
There's only so much your customers are willing to take before they say, enough.
I want to start out by saying I have no issues with you @CG_RyDiggs, and appreciate the job you do!
That being said, please see below:
If people use the infinite Nightsister stealth loop in arena (defined as a mechanic there), with a 2 or 3 star zombie and poorly starred/geared Nightsisters, to get further than they should be able to, it’s ok. If that same stealth loop (no longer apparently a mechanic, but now an exploit) is used in a raid, with people that have actually invested crystals/money into starring up their Nightsisters, it is considered “undermining the design spirit”? Are people still able to use this Nightsister mechanic/exploit in arena?
I haven’t invested in Nightsisters at all, so I am not effected in either instance of the exploit/mechanic, and am just a concerned and inquisitive customer.
Thank you, everyone, for your time, and hope everyone has a great day!
The saddest part about all of this is that I was FINALLY starting to believe the devs actually cared about the community. It had been several months without them actively trying to make people quit the game. I should have known better. After 2 years, why would they stop now?
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
Sorry, I realize your intents are good but while challenge gear remains in all forms of raids this statement is just a flat out lie.
How many of those millions of players need more of it again?
Bringing content in alignment with design goals is good for the game. Regarding Pit and AAT, try out the changes and see if it is the impact you believe it to be.
Millions of players need the gear, which keeps the game healthy and growing as they all work to make improvements.
I may have missed the point, but I think we agree, millions of players playing to improve their rosters is good for the game?
RT
I’m sorry and you can ban me in the forums or ban my account in the game if you want, but this is answer is nothing short of insulting and you deserve a big fat slap in the face for even typing it. I understand the Stormtrooper Han nerf even though I don’t like it. But nerfing expose across all raids is ridiculous at least as is nerfing nightsister zombie. To top it all off you pretend to answer questions and “provide feedback” while just repeating vague statements about your “vision” and “health of the game”. Then you say with a straight face that after all the hard work people put in, and all the impossible work you now impose on them that challenge gear as rewards is something they need?
Seriously??? I can understand that you have been put in this position to try and interact with the forums and try to give a positive spin on this by repeating vague statements but flat out lying about challenge gear is unacceptable. Shame on you @CG_RyDiggs
Are we really supposed to act like these people care about anything other than profit. These blatant lies about "the health of the game" are absurd and insulting. Just be honest about these changes. They're designed to increase spending and nothing else
This is not nerfing expose for other areas of the game.
Thanks my first FAQ
So, something which was working for a year, won't be anymore.
Young guilds I've been taking care and instructing to farm resistance to succeed in HAAT ... hmm, how to say that, sorry guys, my bad, actually it doesn't work.
1. Expose is not being removed only slightly reduced impact for Rancor and HAAT
2. Both Raids have many options for managing.
Let's not get too sensational or hyperbolic.
RT
Let's be more condescending to the player base you claim to listen to.
Excellent tactic, make the angry masses angrier.
I agree with the philosophy, however, these new changes will only highlight the poor rewards for the most challenging raid to date.
I'm sorry the raid will miss your expectations. We do know it is the most challenging one to date, and hope the next one is more in line with your expectations. Your feedback is recognized.
RT
Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
This is just plain sloppy game management. There are far too many issues throughout the game that are not being addressed despite regular and well thought out feedback that has been ignored for months to years, yet one damage loop issue arises and gets fixed instantly. Nutini comes to mind. You cannot keep telling the community to figure it out and then take it away when they do. I can accept the STHan loop but everything beyond that is just bad and misinformed in my opinion. It’s far easier to accept actions like this by actively discussing and addressing other issues without being ignored or occasionally distracted by fancy PR speak. You’re making changes here ‘for millions’ based on the actions and sharing of information by a couple thousand.
And can we be real here @CG_RyDiggs? Did y’all guys have to nerf expose and add more enrage buffs to account for upcoming gear and level tier increases? Do y’all just really hate Wampanader?
If you’re going to significantly reduce possible damage output you’ve got to more adequately address the health pools, cut the tenacity stack %s or remove fearsome foe 2 passive since there are no topples, and get rid of trash challenge gear from raid rewards for some actual balance in my opinion.
I get they may not have caught the STH endless loop in testing. But how do they not test their raid with the latest, legendary toon with, I don’t know, say other resistance toons?
While I understand the theory of undermining the spirit of the raid I do not understand the “fix” so when the bonds of weakness damages my character it no longer counts as damage to that character’s abilities. Can I also damage the raid boss without it counting as damage
But I just bought a character based on an advertised kit and now you're telling me that a portion of their kit will be rendered ineligible in a major portion of the game. That's false advertising and horrible, imo. I feel ripped off.
Actually, this is quite illegal in the US & you do have a recourse available to you.
So, do we all get 90k in crystals in "recompense" for this? I mean most of us spent vast amounts to build these teams. Seems only fair since we spent and get it taken away. You did it for the lstb flub. Why not this time. Seems to me this is much much worse. Oh, still waiting for an answer btw.
C'mon people be serious. We all know that we'll get nothing and we'll like it. CG/EA will continue to make money and continue to not care about this community. We go through this same charade every time and the outcome is the same every time
I have one question that I would very much like an answer to. In light of these design philosophy changes and this quote in particular:
"Teams that can perform infinite loops within the first week of release fall within this category of “undermining the design spirit”. We consider each incident of this nature individually to determine whether corrective actions are warranted. While we do have several processes in place to prevent these interactions from making it into the live game, they unfortunately can still happen. In order to protect the integrity of the design and the experience, we will continue to actively curate the Raids (and any other content) going forward."
Will you be adjusting CLS's ability to solo an entire raid?
It seems that him and rancor will fall into this category; with the potential of a few select teams ability to either solo phases or the ENTIRE raid of HAAT.
I totally get unintended interactions (Looking at you STH) and trying to make content difficult and challenging. However, it appears that you are cherry picking what you want to address and what you do not. Instead of actually adhering to your stated philosophy. Not to mention design and mechanical oversight (strait up calling you out on the expose nerf). Expose has been in the game and functioned they way it has for quite some time. It has created situations where teams can solo phases in raids, it has been the go to for clearing tough GW nodes (zFinn anyone?). It is not a single solitary ability on a character that is old. No, it is fresh and currently relevant. Your content design failed and the player base is now being punished. While I am on this topic, can't a zFinn team create this "infinite loop" you speak of in player matches? Are we going to see Resistance changed due to your design philosophy? What about Magma trooper? Jeeze, any top end gamer worth their salt knows that % increase trump raw numbers every time.
With these changes and the stacking tenacity on the raid bosses, we are resigned to just throwing damage numbers at the raid boss and praying it goes down. I don't see any fun or engaging game play there.
Players complain about everything, it is our nature. Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong about all of this. In any event, will you be adjusting CLS's ability to solo an entire raid?
Your question is great. The unfortunately short truth is, we're constantly evaluating content and whether or not it is meeting current design goals. If our goals for the health of the game aren't being met, we'll make changes to bring them in line.
Characters, raids, marquee events, everything.
The goals shift and so our actions may shift. We'll keep you posted as BEST we can when the changes are coming.
Older content, like the Rancor Raid has different and changing goals everytime we release new characters, Territory Battles, or any other new content.
I really do wish I could have a better answer, but this has been our history and will be our future.
I hope my honesty is appreciated, as we absolutely appreciate your support of this awesome game, past, present and future.
RT
So basically l... pay for the meta teams , stay up to date with meta teams to be relevant and if your not wait about a year until new levels are implemented to be strong enough to be relevant in old content...thanks EA
OP update:
1. This will only affect Raid bosses, not other game areas.
2. This will have some minimal effect on Pit and AAT raids, but will not be nearly significant.
3. We will monitor the update afterwards and make sure design goals are being met.
The design goals clearly aren't to make the game player friendly
Replies
This isn’t a laughing matter. Your condescending posts and making light of the whole situation is creating further divide.
My question is how are you guys surprised that JTR and squad achieve as much damage as they do in the raid?
You guys didn't test your flagship hero to see how she performed in the new raid?
Seems like you had to know that jtr performed better than the other teams. This move really looks like a punitive action against the community because some members complained about jtr being the only useful team.
It comes off looking very very petty.
It is awesome that you go into the lions pit and adress some concerns. I just feel that some answers, how well intended they mayb be add more oil into the fire.
Also if Cg would adress or at least discuss and explain other issues in the game with the same energy like raid balancing is explained here, it wouldnt be necessary to bring up those other issues like unnecessary gear in this thread.
1. While I understand some things fall through the cracks considering there is over 180+ toons, I don’t understand how the expose damage mechanic was missed during testing. If it is being claimed that raids are “regularly evaluated” and tweaked, the expose mechanic has been something being utilized in the tank raid for several months if not a full year. So with that in mind, I am unsure how this mechanic can be claimed as “slipping through the cracks” when we have had several months of evidence on how the expose mechanic works in raids.
2. I would like to know what we define as the “spirit of the game”. As stated by @CG_RyDiggs raid content encourages strategic thinking which for the sake of my argument I will define as follows: encouraging players to find different combinations of toons that will work effectively to do the most damage possible” with jay in mind, ST Han was a direct result of strategic, critical thinking on how the toon operated and utilizing the raid mechanics. It seems a bit hypocritical of the devs to change this function now.
3. The OP states that “teams within the first week” of raid release fall into the category of “undermining the design spirit”. Is this saying if we found this raid mechanic later on, that it would have been allowed to stay? With the way we are able to solo the rancor and now the Haat, the perception given seems to be that CG simply didn’t expect us to figure out this raid so quickly.
I don’t want this to be perceived as me bashing CG or taken in a negative light so while I am complaining and requesting for a response I want to offer some solutions hopefully create a more productive/constructive conversation:
1. Rather than implementing an enrage counter after a certain amount of turns, make it so each run is timed similar to how attacks function in arena. While this may not directly solve teams from soloing raids, it can limit damage done in a phase and/or make it more difficult to complete raids without having to add a bunch of exceptions on toons abilities.
2. Make the rewards feel like a reward. Han Solo, GK, and Treya are all great toons, however the amount of work put into a raid is fairly large and the reward for completing one is miniscual in comparison. While it has been said many times in this forum, removing challenge gear would be a good start.
If you made it this far into my post, hope it was worth the read and would welcome any constructive criticism on my points. I enjoy this game and hope we as a community and dev team can help push it in the right direction.
Couldn’t you just make Traya not remove as much TM which creates the endless loop?
I did invest in st han. And now seeing him nerfed is kinda a slap in the face after trying endless teams to finally have one that did something in this raid. I could have used the stun gun elsewhere since I never use st han for anything and finally saw a use for him. Now he is back on the shelf.
Also can the rewards be random please I have way too many scanners from almost every raid. This way I can actually gear characters to play your game.
I would like to keep playing the game too.
My apologies, I understand the changes can be jarring. I'm not trying to dismiss the sentiment.
I do need to separate facts from hyperbole and speculation. I'll work on my tone for sure. Feedback noted and appreciated.
RT
Thanks for the time and feedback (both posters). We're always evaluating past content as new stuff comes out.
If the time comes to implement changes in the area you mention, we'll be announcing it here too.
Feedback absolutely noted and appreciated.
RT
And now this philosophy and overly dramatic change comes on the heels of your customers spending time, hard earned money, and resources they've acquired on this product that you delivered in what you've admitted was poorly constructed.
@CG_RyDiggs, no amount of "active listening" tactics that you're attempting to employ here are going to ease the situation. You want to fix the situation? You effect real change, real policy shifts, and you honor the investments that the people that keep this game running have made. Empty promises and rhetoric are not going to make this better.
There's only so much your customers are willing to take before they say, enough.
That being said, please see below:
If people use the infinite Nightsister stealth loop in arena (defined as a mechanic there), with a 2 or 3 star zombie and poorly starred/geared Nightsisters, to get further than they should be able to, it’s ok. If that same stealth loop (no longer apparently a mechanic, but now an exploit) is used in a raid, with people that have actually invested crystals/money into starring up their Nightsisters, it is considered “undermining the design spirit”? Are people still able to use this Nightsister mechanic/exploit in arena?
I haven’t invested in Nightsisters at all, so I am not effected in either instance of the exploit/mechanic, and am just a concerned and inquisitive customer.
Thank you, everyone, for your time, and hope everyone has a great day!
I’m sorry and you can ban me in the forums or ban my account in the game if you want, but this is answer is nothing short of insulting and you deserve a big fat slap in the face for even typing it. I understand the Stormtrooper Han nerf even though I don’t like it. But nerfing expose across all raids is ridiculous at least as is nerfing nightsister zombie. To top it all off you pretend to answer questions and “provide feedback” while just repeating vague statements about your “vision” and “health of the game”. Then you say with a straight face that after all the hard work people put in, and all the impossible work you now impose on them that challenge gear as rewards is something they need?
Seriously??? I can understand that you have been put in this position to try and interact with the forums and try to give a positive spin on this by repeating vague statements but flat out lying about challenge gear is unacceptable. Shame on you @CG_RyDiggs
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/161671/sith-triumvirate-raid-changes-mega/p1
Sad but true.
Let's be more condescending to the player base you claim to listen to.
Excellent tactic, make the angry masses angrier.
I'm sorry the raid will miss your expectations. We do know it is the most challenging one to date, and hope the next one is more in line with your expectations. Your feedback is recognized.
RT
And can we be real here @CG_RyDiggs? Did y’all guys have to nerf expose and add more enrage buffs to account for upcoming gear and level tier increases? Do y’all just really hate Wampanader?
If you’re going to significantly reduce possible damage output you’ve got to more adequately address the health pools, cut the tenacity stack %s or remove fearsome foe 2 passive since there are no topples, and get rid of trash challenge gear from raid rewards for some actual balance in my opinion.
Actually, Against Nihilus, YES!
Actually, this is quite illegal in the US & you do have a recourse available to you.
I have no words...
So basically l... pay for the meta teams , stay up to date with meta teams to be relevant and if your not wait about a year until new levels are implemented to be strong enough to be relevant in old content...thanks EA
The design goals clearly aren't to make the game player friendly