Can we back up the truck a bit? STHan is the log in character of the month. Decided by CG. Are we really supposed to believe that in all this "pre-release testing" you forgot to test the character you chose to be the log in character on the same day the raid dropped?
I'm sorry - I love this game, but that is either incredibly inept or incredibly disingenuous. But either way it is EXTREMELY disturbing and disappointing.
"I move for a vote of no confidence." - Padme Amidala
Well said.....
Post edited by Kyno on
Use the force Luke.... and get rid of that stupid musket.
Maybe the devs should just publish a list of acceptable squad combinations so that players don't innovate incorrectly and make sure strategic thinking does not venture outside the box.
This. Without getting too sensational or dramatic, once you do what you need to do to STHan, please post a list of toons that are in the clear to use for the raid, and ones that are still under review. The last thing I need is to be told that my Phoenix Squad won't be able to share uniques in the sith raid because it's too powerful.
You guys at CG cannot be serious. I’m sure with EA and Disney involved its all about the bottom line, but you’re wizzing on the whales and sticking it to the F2P guys in the process. Great business model. If I ran my AC company in this fashion I would not be able to pacify my customers with snarky remarks and condescending reply’s to the questions and concerns they have. Clearly, this was not properly vetted before it was released. Suck it up, admit your failure in implementation, and do whatever’s necessary to keep the toons from being “reworked” AFTER investments were made.
You have to see the real issue here, right? You blew it guys, don’t make the community pay for it.
Use the force Luke.... and get rid of that stupid musket.
Honestly, from the phrasing Ry has been using, it actually sounds like the most important issue here is that ppl started using STHan so successfully so soon. Had it been 6 months down the line, maybe they wouldn't have minded as much. I think they scheduled 3-4 months of people figuring out the raid before they started beating heroic consistently.
This is like watching a white house press conference. Stunning.
I'm sorry it feels that way. We're working to be as forthcoming as we can, and I'm working to answer questions I can. It is certainly not the most popular news, but I'm dedicated to the near future to attempt to answer and respond.
Still, I take your sentiment, and hope the difference is our commitment to staying and clarifying.
RT
The sentiment that this sounds like a White House press conference is spot on. To quote Judge Judy, you are out here peeing on our legs and telling us it’s raining.
It’s a fair question to ask: did you guys not run RJT at all in your testing? Did anyone ever try STHan? It’s like everything that outperforms will be nerfed.
I want to ask since basically the product we invested in will not work as it was sold to us, are we entitled to refund in terms of zeta and invested time?
Resistance has been praised by all game changers as an excellent HAAT team, so a lot of guilds are farming them and now with no apparent reason, they will not work as intended. I understand main focus is the players that spend tons of money but this does not mean the rest should be ignored.
I am not arguing about changes made to the new raid but changing a mechanic that has worked for the last year and a mechanic that CG through its proxies the game changers promote is just ridiculous.
I understand that many are upset by this change, but it is unfair to direct anger or negativity to @CG_RyDiggs. He is only doing his job and has been very communicative with players. He is not the one who changed the raid mechanics, don't shoot the messenger.
I love how CG keeps claiming they’re trying to “honestly answer” questions while simultaneously playing dumb about challenge gear and Sion’s nerf. People literally might have spent $300 to buy Sion based on what he can do in the raid, and their response is “he’s not useless he’s just nerfed.”
Here’s hoping Disney really does revoke EA’s license. Give it to a publisher that might actually care.
@CG_RyDiggs
Hi Ryan,
Long time player here, (started shortly after launch) and have been enjoying the game, for the most part, thus far. This new raid, however, is changing that.
I'm part of a very good guild. (Nearly 150M GP) I'm not saying we're the best, but we're ranked 37th in the entire game, GP-wise. You would think that we would able to get through this new raid on Heroic? Nope! Which means, it's safe to assume that less than 35 guilds in total can get through this raid. This is ridiculous! I can't imagine how those 100M+ GP guilds feel... They are SO FAR AWAY! And now you're buffing the already ridiculously powerful bosses and nerfing RJT. I mean RJT is pretty the ONLY consistently good toon throughout the raid. Problem is, you can only use her once. You should consider making other toons and other teams viable instead of nerfing the only good one.
Also, this whole business about nerfing toons because people have figured out creative ways to use them is absolute stuff. Nothing like killing creativity. You're taking all the fun out of this game. Also this game is getting way too much... I understand the desire for new toons and content, but this is truly getting to be too much. This last raid is so much work and takes entirely too much time. All that for poor rewards and some shards... I'm sad to say, that for the first time in over two years I'm seriously considering quitting the game. I don't want to though! But it's become more akin to a chore (work) than a game (fun). I'm sorry but this new raid isn't fun and the changes that you are proposing are projecting to make it even less fun yet... Please reconsider these latest changes and please consider different changes. Changes that would allow more people to have more fun (that's what a game is for, right?) Would it hurt you guys terribly if say, about 100 guilds could complete this new raid on Heroic?
JP
I understand that many are upset by this change, but it is unfair to direct anger or negativity to @CG_RyDiggs. He is only doing his job and has been very communicative with players. He is not the one who changed the raid mechanics, don't shoot the messenger.
I'm not aware of any changes not noted above. You can contact Customer Service at your discretion for clarity.
You are a supposed development manager, and yet you don't realise that changes to expose affects resistance teams which many if not all use finn because of his zeta leadership skill, therefore people making the investment into these resistance teams based on a year or so of play and data collection, is now going to be a waste as they won't be as effective as they currently are in HAAT, even though the change have minimal impact (so you say)?
Why nerf every single useful team basically who all worked just as they had to ?????
Very dissapointed with your philosophy... I mean lets say the infinite loops are not intended cool, but nerfing every team that can make some good dmg by thinking outside the box (which you didnt do) and not average is a very bad philosophy and you are wrong!
My opinion after see how things happen recently, u guys better have tester team. I mean, real tester team. U guys made this game, then after report here and there u start take action.
U guys give us half-finished product, some of us give "full-finished" money in this game hope to be better then another players.
Then BAM.. suddenly u make change here and there. I'm not pointing at u guys, but how would u feel if u are in the players side? What are u thinking?
Enough is enough. This was the most poorly handled response to a problem I have ever seen. You make better mods available in the mod store because obviously better mods will be coming. You release a raid which now appears to have to be beaten by sheer roster depth now because you’re going to do a level cap increase after you just got everyone to spend their credits on mods which wills be devalued with 6 dot mods. You are holding your customer base responsible for your mistakes. I even understand the st Han nerf but to nerf expose across all raid bosses is just not the appropriate response.
Sorry, I realize your intents are good but while challenge gear remains in all forms of raids this statement is just a flat out lie.
How many of those millions of players need more of it again?
Bringing content in alignment with design goals is good for the game. Regarding Pit and AAT, try out the changes and see if it is the impact you believe it to be.
Millions of players need the gear, which keeps the game healthy and growing as they all work to make improvements.
I may have missed the point, but I think we agree, millions of players playing to improve their rosters is good for the game?
RT
1) that would be the job of developers and beta testers
2) at least getting something right
So we should make innovative strategies excluding pretty much any debuff in the game(coz sith lords are made of teflon) and % damage effect against brutal defense. So vanilla style bashing in great numbers?
OP update:
1. This will only affect Raid bosses, not other game areas.
2. This will have some minimal effect on Pit and AAT raids, but will not be nearly significant.
3. We will monitor the update afterwards and make sure design goals are being met.
@CG_RyDiggs can you tell the player base what the design goals are for each raid? Since Territory Battles has been released it seems like all the new content follows these steps.
Step 1. Release content that has not been play tested and is bugged.
Step 2. Require people to farm toons and ships that they normally wouldn't have farmed in order for them to "help the guild".
Step 3. Roll out new toons every couple of weeks then prey upon people psychologically by making them think they need to farm this new toon so that their guild can achieve maximum rewards or so they are not left behind.
Step. 4 when the player base comes up with an idea of how to use a toon or a new team comp. Come out and stay it is not working as intended and make adjustments to raid.
I am sure there are some steps I am missing in your design goals such as profit, but it is easy to see you are more concerned with that step then listening to your community. It took you guys 2 years to fix the raid ticket counter for guilds. Will it be another 2 years before we get mod management?
So we should make innovative strategies excluding pretty much any debuff in the game(coz sith lords are made of teflon) and % damage effect against brutal defense. So vanilla style bashing in great numbers?
@CG_RyDiggs Thanks for having taken the time to explain and for the very considerate way you presented upcoming changes. These changes will help guilds to actively cooperate and try find their best approach to this new challenge (instead of waiting, frustrated, for the guys who have JTR). I have been unhappy with the first version of the raid but I think this second version is going encourage us to play and have fun.
I understand that it is almost impossible to deliver 100% with the first release because costs are increasing almost exponentially if you try make a piece of software 100% „water proof“. Perhaps you could communicate with us more often and explain what you do and why you do it.
-A poor tested RAID gets beaten to quickly so you nerf some toons (StHAN nerf is okay).
-New heroes are not as advertised (Sion, Visas and more or less marauder)
- Where can i get my crystals back?
-Other raids being effected by this
-No fixes to TW issues
-No implementation of the number 1 requested feature: MOD management.
-I have 3 guild membesr quiting over this stuff in a top40 guild...
I see a lot of names I recognize in this thread from TW, ship and arena. The early crowd that has spent and kept the game funded. The sith raid stifles creativity. It's a slog. I hate to say it, but it needs a major rework, not just tuning. I've spent more than I care to admit, time and money. I know I'm not entitled to anything, but I love this game. I honestly believe this raid is not a good feature. I dont know where to go from here, but the graphics are all done and I hope the creative developers at cg can find a way to salvage this thing with some new mechanics. Best of luck cg.
Sigh. Why are game devs not listening to their communities these days? Have you not learnt the lessons of battlefront 2 and destiny 2? EA are probably going to lose the star wars license and nobody plays either of those games anymore. All because arrogant devs making the game they want instead of what the people want. People will vote with their feet. Nobody wants that. We all love this game. Pull the plug on the expose change before it's too late...
Can we back up the truck a bit? STHan is the log in character of the month. Decided by CG. Are we really supposed to believe that in all this "pre-release testing" you forgot to test the character you chose to be the log in character on the same day the raid dropped?
I'm sorry - I love this game, but that is either incredibly inept or incredibly disingenuous. But either way it is EXTREMELY disturbing and disappointing.
"I move for a vote of no confidence." - Padme Amidala
I m actually not sure why people are **** off about STHan being both daily login and being part of the exploit. Are you saying that every month they regulary test the login on different parts of the game? @Nikoms565
Honestly, it would have been better for the devs to just post the changes and not respond at ALL to these threads than to respond the way they did. Every response I've seen from OP has been condescending, vague, "politically correct", possibly scripted and not helpful at all in terms of answering the very legitimate questions posed...
EDIT: obviously a real, open, frank response to the concerns and peripheral concerns raised would have been best, but no chance of that happening in this PR disaster mitigation exercise...
So, @CG_RyDiggs. First time in p4 on a t6 Sith raid. Yes, this is our first raid and we just hit p4. That's from a 110mil GP guild. Expose is doing so much damage that it's taking over a week to complete 1 raid. Yes that's just unacceptable. It should take much longer. How about we nerf expose, and get that to 3 weeks to clear a t6 raid. I don't understand the logic, if there is any, from the stuff you guys pull on us. The game would be alot more fun if you would actually do something for us. You take everything we obtain and learn away from us and throw out some rediculous statement trying to convince us it's for the best. This is one of the biggest bone head moves you guys have ever made. Are you intentionally trying to sabotage the game so we all quit? Must be nice to have so much money that you could care less wether the game survives or not. Just leave us alone and give us a bone every now and then. Good Lord. P4 of the Sith raid is the first 3 tiers all over again. Shouldn't nihilus and so on be a bit weaker since, you know, we've already beat them once? No they are full strength. Insane. I'm about to just quit and get the frustration of your incompetence as far away from me as possible. Thanks for ruining the game.
Replies
Well said.....
This. Without getting too sensational or dramatic, once you do what you need to do to STHan, please post a list of toons that are in the clear to use for the raid, and ones that are still under review. The last thing I need is to be told that my Phoenix Squad won't be able to share uniques in the sith raid because it's too powerful.
You have to see the real issue here, right? You blew it guys, don’t make the community pay for it.
The sentiment that this sounds like a White House press conference is spot on. To quote Judge Judy, you are out here peeing on our legs and telling us it’s raining.
It’s a fair question to ask: did you guys not run RJT at all in your testing? Did anyone ever try STHan? It’s like everything that outperforms will be nerfed.
Resistance has been praised by all game changers as an excellent HAAT team, so a lot of guilds are farming them and now with no apparent reason, they will not work as intended. I understand main focus is the players that spend tons of money but this does not mean the rest should be ignored.
I am not arguing about changes made to the new raid but changing a mechanic that has worked for the last year and a mechanic that CG through its proxies the game changers promote is just ridiculous.
Here’s hoping Disney really does revoke EA’s license. Give it to a publisher that might actually care.
Hi Ryan,
Long time player here, (started shortly after launch) and have been enjoying the game, for the most part, thus far. This new raid, however, is changing that.
I'm part of a very good guild. (Nearly 150M GP) I'm not saying we're the best, but we're ranked 37th in the entire game, GP-wise. You would think that we would able to get through this new raid on Heroic? Nope! Which means, it's safe to assume that less than 35 guilds in total can get through this raid. This is ridiculous! I can't imagine how those 100M+ GP guilds feel... They are SO FAR AWAY! And now you're buffing the already ridiculously powerful bosses and nerfing RJT. I mean RJT is pretty the ONLY consistently good toon throughout the raid. Problem is, you can only use her once. You should consider making other toons and other teams viable instead of nerfing the only good one.
Also, this whole business about nerfing toons because people have figured out creative ways to use them is absolute stuff. Nothing like killing creativity. You're taking all the fun out of this game. Also this game is getting way too much... I understand the desire for new toons and content, but this is truly getting to be too much. This last raid is so much work and takes entirely too much time. All that for poor rewards and some shards... I'm sad to say, that for the first time in over two years I'm seriously considering quitting the game. I don't want to though! But it's become more akin to a chore (work) than a game (fun). I'm sorry but this new raid isn't fun and the changes that you are proposing are projecting to make it even less fun yet... Please reconsider these latest changes and please consider different changes. Changes that would allow more people to have more fun (that's what a game is for, right?) Would it hurt you guys terribly if say, about 100 guilds could complete this new raid on Heroic?
JP
Read his signature and try again.
You are a supposed development manager, and yet you don't realise that changes to expose affects resistance teams which many if not all use finn because of his zeta leadership skill, therefore people making the investment into these resistance teams based on a year or so of play and data collection, is now going to be a waste as they won't be as effective as they currently are in HAAT, even though the change have minimal impact (so you say)?
BTW aren't you supposed to provide clarity?
Also, could you have given more of a FW response?
Do you even work for CG/EA? Do you need a consultant to come in a tell you how to do your job?
Very dissapointed with your philosophy... I mean lets say the infinite loops are not intended cool, but nerfing every team that can make some good dmg by thinking outside the box (which you didnt do) and not average is a very bad philosophy and you are wrong!
U guys give us half-finished product, some of us give "full-finished" money in this game hope to be better then another players.
Then BAM.. suddenly u make change here and there. I'm not pointing at u guys, but how would u feel if u are in the players side? What are u thinking?
1) that would be the job of developers and beta testers
2) at least getting something right
@CG_RyDiggs can you tell the player base what the design goals are for each raid? Since Territory Battles has been released it seems like all the new content follows these steps.
Step 1. Release content that has not been play tested and is bugged.
Step 2. Require people to farm toons and ships that they normally wouldn't have farmed in order for them to "help the guild".
Step 3. Roll out new toons every couple of weeks then prey upon people psychologically by making them think they need to farm this new toon so that their guild can achieve maximum rewards or so they are not left behind.
Step. 4 when the player base comes up with an idea of how to use a toon or a new team comp. Come out and stay it is not working as intended and make adjustments to raid.
I am sure there are some steps I am missing in your design goals such as profit, but it is easy to see you are more concerned with that step then listening to your community. It took you guys 2 years to fix the raid ticket counter for guilds. Will it be another 2 years before we get mod management?
I disagree with the changes they're making. But why would you zeta finn for the sith raid? He's not good there since they keep gaining tenacity.
Bingo. Long, tedious bashing for the sake of it.
I understand that it is almost impossible to deliver 100% with the first release because costs are increasing almost exponentially if you try make a piece of software 100% „water proof“. Perhaps you could communicate with us more often and explain what you do and why you do it.
-A poor tested RAID gets beaten to quickly so you nerf some toons (StHAN nerf is okay).
-New heroes are not as advertised (Sion, Visas and more or less marauder)
- Where can i get my crystals back?
-Other raids being effected by this
-No fixes to TW issues
-No implementation of the number 1 requested feature: MOD management.
-I have 3 guild membesr quiting over this stuff in a top40 guild...
Good luck, may your bankaccount be with you...
I m actually not sure why people are **** off about STHan being both daily login and being part of the exploit. Are you saying that every month they regulary test the login on different parts of the game?
@Nikoms565
EDIT: obviously a real, open, frank response to the concerns and peripheral concerns raised would have been best, but no chance of that happening in this PR disaster mitigation exercise...