Upcoming Sith Triumvirate Raid Changes: 3/12 [MEGA]

Replies

  • DangBusta
    147 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    @Guzzernaut
    Expect that post to be removed/edited by mods quite quickly mate.
  • DaScott
    2 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Erm, devs, why not just put a flat damage cap on % damage abilities instead and solve the problem forever?

    Oh, you are having problems deciding on what that cap number should be? Set the cap no lower than the damage it does in HAAT. That way you are using a baseline that has been around for a long while, and only changing the value of % damage abilities on future content.

    Or even simpler, only make the change on a per-raid basis so you aren't mucking up performance on legacy raids.

    Also you forgot deathmark, dots, and detonators.
    Post edited by DaScott on
  • Thoughts of a sucker for stars wars:

    1) nerfing ST Han - OK (PS: why was he the monthly login toon again?)
    2) Reducing damage on expose - OK PROVIDED you improve the 70+ useless toons in the game
    3) Disproportionately useless sith (and other) raid rewards given the time & effort involved - NOT OK (PS: I have stopped participating in Sith raid - too boring and time consuming even at tier 4-5)
    4) JTR - Not following release cadence - NOT OK (plus both 16 energy nodes for Vets - Both!!)
    5) BB8 and JTR events running concurrently - you gotta be kidding me!!
    6) Are carbantis like air and water in this game (how come EVERY toon needs them??)
    7) Multi bronzium pulls - Seriously, how difficult can it be for the developers to add this feature after more than a year of the community demanding it (for ****'s sake!!!!!)
    8) Mod store - are they enticing us to spend credits on 5 dot mods so that they increase level cap and introduce 7 dot mods after a few weeks (you betcha!!!)
  • disneygif_0.gif

    CG is doing the daily routine. (colorized)

    IMG_20180310_080126.jpg
    The original idea of the sith raid (from the early 2017s)
  • First_but_66_Order
    1014 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Kyno wrote: »
    Themy wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    AdlerCl wrote: »
    I'm not really gonna complain to be honest. You're giving us JTR so I'm happy. And people complaining about how it's such short notice, it's always short notice, wise up and farm early like I did. Surely if you've been playing this game you've learnt some level of patience and foresight. CLS returned 4 months after his first appearance so this March isn't beyond possibilities of JTR returning

    I've been farming them since December. Just to reiterate the atrocious drop rates.
    Kyno wrote: »
    How is 50% damage reduction "slightly" ?

    its not a 50% reduction in damage. its a 50% reduction in damage from expose. I know this is a subtle difference but its not as much as you would think.

    According to game changers it's about 16-25% in HAAT and 30% in Hsith raid..
    sL_Spinoza wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    How is 50% damage reduction "slightly" ?

    its not a 50% reduction in damage. its a 50% reduction in damage from expose. I know this is a subtle difference but its not as much as you would think.

    If you make 10% heroic this reduction represents 1 million. How many times can you make 1 million in heroic p1?

    I didn't say I like it, or wanted it. I wass just pointing out it's not a 50% reduction in straight damage.

    It’s a 40% reduction in JTR damage in this raid, they reduced hp by 5% this making the raid even harder. So actually you are wrong in thinking it’s not as much as people would think. Maybe you should do the math before trying to defend a **** decision by the devs?

    Firstly I claimed no numbers, that were not stated by others, but please post your math showing that a reduction of 50% to expose and a 5% reduction in health works out to 40% reduction in overall damage. I would love to see it. @Themy

    As I said I wasn't trying to defend it, but nearly pointing out that a 50% reduction in expose does not directly mean a 50% reduction in damage.

    @Kyno
    Look up page 7. There I have the maths, and it is actually more than 50% dmg reduction.

    it is 0.04% => 0.0198% expose damage
    and 0.015% => 0.0157% normal avarage damage per hit.

    EDIT
    The avarage of the two is
    0.0275% => 0.01775%
    so overall it is less than 50% decrease. But it is still too much.
    They should have decreased the health with at least 10% total instead of this <1% total.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Themy wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    AdlerCl wrote: »
    I'm not really gonna complain to be honest. You're giving us JTR so I'm happy. And people complaining about how it's such short notice, it's always short notice, wise up and farm early like I did. Surely if you've been playing this game you've learnt some level of patience and foresight. CLS returned 4 months after his first appearance so this March isn't beyond possibilities of JTR returning

    I've been farming them since December. Just to reiterate the atrocious drop rates.
    Kyno wrote: »
    How is 50% damage reduction "slightly" ?

    its not a 50% reduction in damage. its a 50% reduction in damage from expose. I know this is a subtle difference but its not as much as you would think.

    According to game changers it's about 16-25% in HAAT and 30% in Hsith raid..
    sL_Spinoza wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    How is 50% damage reduction "slightly" ?

    its not a 50% reduction in damage. its a 50% reduction in damage from expose. I know this is a subtle difference but its not as much as you would think.

    If you make 10% heroic this reduction represents 1 million. How many times can you make 1 million in heroic p1?

    I didn't say I like it, or wanted it. I wass just pointing out it's not a 50% reduction in straight damage.

    It’s a 40% reduction in JTR damage in this raid, they reduced hp by 5% this making the raid even harder. So actually you are wrong in thinking it’s not as much as people would think. Maybe you should do the math before trying to defend a **** decision by the devs?

    Firstly I claimed no numbers, that were not stated by others, but please post your math showing that a reduction of 50% to expose and a 5% reduction in health works out to 40% reduction in overall damage. I would love to see it. Themy

    As I said I wasn't trying to defend it, but nearly pointing out that a 50% reduction in expose does not directly mean a 50% reduction in damage.

    Kyno
    Look up page 7. There I have the maths, and it is actually more than 50% dmg reduction.

    it is 0.04% => 0.0198% expose damage
    and 0.015% => 0.0157% normal avarage damage per hit.

    @First_but_66_Order for a 50% reduction in damage over all, that would mean that expose was accounting for more than 50% of the damage total, i am just a little confused how that can be, but I will go look at your math.
  • @Kyno
    Sorry I misunderstood.
    I thought you were referring to the expose damage.
    it is actually about 36% dmg decrease.
    But I was generous with the avarage damage (15k)
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Kyno
    Sorry I misunderstood.
    I thought you were referring to the expose damage.
    it is actually about 36% dmg decrease.
    But I was generous with the avarage damage (15k)

    Yes that seems to be the overall consensus of numbers is about a 1/3 reduction in overall effectiveness of the team. Which sucks, and will take a whole new level to get through the raid. Good thing we all have gold murder bears right??..... :neutral:
  • TVF
    36526 posts Member
    I'm convinced they only brought back JTR early in order to try to offset this damage reduction. They thought that guilds could still do the raid in the same amount of time if they gave guilds more JTRs.

    Naturally everyone who was expecting 4.5 months and got 3 months are left out in the cold. It will be interesting to see if they bring her back again in early May, as I believe they originally intended.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • As a player who been playing for 15 months and doesn't have a single GK shard, how am I supposed to get our guild to run HAAT when the team we been farming to run that event has been nerfed? Isn't illogical to punish newer players or players not in super guilds? I know GK isn't the greatest in the game, but still one of the top 10 toons in the game. Senseless move.
  • Everyone!! Please just take a pill chill already!

    Rey (Jedi Training) is coming back in a couple days! So just make sure you get her. And if you don't, make sure you start/finish farming the characters needed for her!

    It's that simple. She is the only character that matters in this game. Everyone else is a waste of time and money. Rey is Star Wars. All other characters are fan fiction at best. Especially that one guy in the black helmet and cape. I mean, who wears a cape?? Honestly.
  • Artery
    20 posts Member
    Perfxion wrote: »
    As a player who been playing for 15 months and doesn't have a single GK shard, how am I supposed to get our guild to run HAAT when the team we been farming to run that event has been nerfed? Isn't illogical to punish newer players or players not in super guilds? I know GK isn't the greatest in the game, but still one of the top 10 toons in the game. Senseless move.

    I get loyalty I do, but if after 15 months you haven't beaten HAAT it'd be better off to go to a guild that matches your ambitions.

    As for players in super guilds, we beat HAAT with no expose based teams when we were at 24mill GP at the end of January. You don't need to be In a super guild to beat HAAT.
  • I'm sure we'll get something...

    On the way out the door.
  • dumpster-fire-gif.gif
    The thing about a dumpster fire is.... why even put it out?
    "They" are just gonna let it burn down.
    And I 'guess' imma just keep filling dat dumpster right back up. Give and take... amiright?
    9MQgx_s-200x150.gif
    Really, just fix the raid rewards - the rest will fall into place. You can beat that stick all you want but without the carrot, people are never going to be okay with the garbage that's being spewed. TBH, I'm not sure which part of the TB rewards backlash you didn't get last time? Did you think calling the newest TB iteration a "raid" was going to change it?
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • TVF wrote: »
    Can someone dig that quote up?

    It's on Page 23 here:

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/161684/game-content-philosophy-mega/p23

    March 8, 2018 @ 7:42 PM:
    Heya Neo,
    Thanks for taking the time to give feedback. A few things to unpack here, I'll try to answer what I can.
    1. HAAT and Rancor are very old content and don't carry as much concern in March 2018 as they did when they launched in 2016 and before. There are multiple viable defeat options outside of Expose.
    2. JTR's expose is working exactly as it did before. We're adjusting Raid Bosses to be in line with design goals and Expose not be the sole best tactic going forward. JTR will STILL be viable, but one single ability tactic isn't in the design goals. By updating current Bosses, we also future proof all future Raid Bosses.
    It was going to happen, and we decided to do this change now while correcting ST Han's infinite loop.
    3. Your teams should be able to do damage in the Raid, unless you're not bypassing Nihilus' protection?
    If you aren't able to damage Sith Raid bosses, you may want to read the power descriptions, as they have protection gain mechanics that need to be addressed, and can by with many different unit options without Expose.
    Again, thank you for the time. I know this doesn't make you happy, but I wanted you to know we are reading, listening and look forward to hearing feedback after next week's update.
    RT

    That's the full quote for transparency.

    Which shows that they planned on nerfing RJT and diminish her overall value in the game, which diminishes all of our investments in her.
  • dumpster-fire-gif.gif
    The thing about a dumpster fire is.... why even put it out?
    "They" are just gonna let it burn down.
    And I 'guess' imma just keep filling dat dumpster right back up. Give and take... amiright?
    9MQgx_s-200x150.gif
    Really, just fix the raid rewards - the rest will fall into place. You can beat that stick all you want but without the carrot, people are never going to be okay with the garbage that's being spewed. TBH, I'm not sure which part of the TB rewards backlash you didn't get last time? Did you think calling the newest TB iteration a "raid" was going to change it?

    Spam T1 for the tokens.
    The other tiers arent worth the effort
  • TVF
    36526 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    T1? Lol. That's garbage.

    I'd much rather do T4 and get some carb/furnace/stun gear plus better currency. T5 also gives GEC but our guild isn't ready for it yet.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Artery wrote: »
    Perfxion wrote: »
    As a player who been playing for 15 months and doesn't have a single GK shard, how am I supposed to get our guild to run HAAT when the team we been farming to run that event has been nerfed? Isn't illogical to punish newer players or players not in super guilds? I know GK isn't the greatest in the game, but still one of the top 10 toons in the game. Senseless move.

    I get loyalty I do, but if after 15 months you haven't beaten HAAT it'd be better off to go to a guild that matches your ambitions.

    As for players in super guilds, we beat HAAT with no expose based teams when we were at 24mill GP at the end of January. You don't need to be In a super guild to beat HAAT.

    I highly doubt a 24mill GP guild that isn't a max of 26 people can beat the HAAT. Unless 10 people dragged 40 others to rewards.

    Most guilds don't accept people who don't have CLS, RJT, GK, CHS, CS, and 1.5mill plus power. And if you try and build your guild up, the game punishes you by making content that even at t3 needs RJT since they got rid of the STHan being helpful.
  • Fiddler
    3 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    For a guild that has been working hard to complete HAAT this nerf is a slap in the face!
    TheBasshar wrote: »
    You have absolutely no business making HAAT harder for established characters. You're giving a giant middle finger to smaller guilds.

  • TVF
    36526 posts Member
    You guys do realize how little damage expose does in HAAT versus your toon damage, right?

    In other news, I checked a couple of my P1 JTR runs and in T4 I did around 5.5m in total damage, with around 2.9m from exposes. That means the new damage will be 4m...so less for sure, but it hardly makes JTR worthless. Right now I have one of only two JTRs in my guild, but I figure with the additional JTRs we gain from the upcoming event, we'll be in roughly the same place as pre-nerf.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Artery wrote: »
    Perfxion wrote: »
    As a player who been playing for 15 months and doesn't have a single GK shard, how am I supposed to get our guild to run HAAT when the team we been farming to run that event has been nerfed? Isn't illogical to punish newer players or players not in super guilds? I know GK isn't the greatest in the game, but still one of the top 10 toons in the game. Senseless move.

    I get loyalty I do, but if after 15 months you haven't beaten HAAT it'd be better off to go to a guild that matches your ambitions.

    As for players in super guilds, we beat HAAT with no expose based teams when we were at 24mill GP at the end of January. You don't need to be In a super guild to beat HAAT.

    I'd love to see a link to your guild on swgoh.gg if you have one.
  • @CG_RyDiggs

    I apologize if this has been asked already, but 10 pages of responses was a lot to go through. How will the update affect Raids that have already been launched? Will the changes take affect in the raid my guild is currently in, or will they not take affect until the next raid is launched?
  • @CG_RyDiggs

    I apologize if this has been asked already, but 10 pages of responses was a lot to go through. How will the update affect Raids that have already been launched? Will the changes take affect in the raid my guild is currently in, or will they not take affect until the next raid is launched?

    The fix has not been patched in yet. Wait for the next content/HF update first. And then I would assume it would only affect future raids and not ongoing ones.
  • I've said this before - this isn't all that big a deal - the change just isn't all that profound.

    It sounds a lot more like people suddenly decided that rather than this being related to balance it's just a bait and switch to get more money out of the user base. Which really just sounds like people need to consider what they decide to invest in, because this has happened before and will again. Games like this are always being tweaked to make room for new content.

    And this raid was never intended to be easy - at all - even for well established guilds. It was meant to be incredibly challenging, and to encourage guilds to work together, and yes, for us to keep working on our back rosters. There's more to this game than just the current meta, and probably more than a few hidden meta waiting to be discovered.

    Sooner or later, Ugnaught's hidden potential will be unveiled!


  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    TVF wrote: »
    I'm convinced they only brought back JTR early in order to try to offset this damage reduction. They thought that guilds could still do the raid in the same amount of time if they gave guilds more JTRs.

    Naturally everyone who was expecting 4.5 months and got 3 months are left out in the cold. It will be interesting to see if they bring her back again in early May, as I believe they originally intended.

    I agree with all of this. They probably might even have guild member data and % of JTrey owners per guild on which they based it. Maybe. lol

    @CG_RyDiggs - not to be a bother, but is there at least an "estimate" on when these changes will go live? Are we talking by the end of the week? End of the month? Or just "soon"? ;)
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Let me start off by saying, I'm one of the very few people who don't have an issue with the expose nerf, in a vacuum.
    Furthermore, as developers, you had every right (and I support it) to make the new raid utterly impossible to beat with current rosters, character level, and gear levels. The issue is that it's not damage, abilities, or even health pool that makes it truly a difficult raid; it's quite literally boxing-out all but a handful of compositions. Therefore, with the raid came a few issues with the cadence of your arguments justifying it, and the upcoming nerfs. Number one on that list is the faulty assertion that JTR teams are stifling player composition development.
    Putting aside the fact that essentially telling us how we should be playing is ludicrous (if we don't like your builds we shall smite thee!), the problem is that you gave us too few usable choices. Rather than nerf JTR, a better solution would be to have made the raid truly accessible to various types of teams.

    Debuff teams? Totally out.

    Turnmeter-leverage? Out (assaj and zader lead are exceptions).

    Pure-damage teams? Barely make a dent.

    Assist/retaliate driven teams? Out (especially vs nihilus).

    Buff-based teams? Out.

    Really, what you left us with was:
    Jedi rey, nightsisters, imperial troopers, krennic/DT combo, mines, St.Han.

    If you truly want creativity, allow it.
    These nerfs, combined with the lack of serviceable teams, are tantamount to locking your child in the broom-closet and then accosting them for not playing outside.
    Speaking of St.Han, I'm completely on board with that nerf, but DT/krennic and the others that got lumped in with it?
    I'll stick with the DT example to illustrate my next point.

    Stormtrooper han:
    1 character
    No zeta required
    Gear levels pretty much didnt matter
    Mods pretty much dont matter
    Easily farmed F2P character
    Could literally become nearly permanently invulnerable
    Could solo entire phase in several compositions.

    DT/krennic:
    Requires 2 characters
    Needs a zeta
    Still need quality gear levels
    Still need quality mods
    1 above-average-to-difficult to farm character
    1 character thats a top-5 difficult farm
    Can't become invulnerable (DT takes too many turns)
    Could do very good damage, but nowhere close to St.Han level.

    See the difference?
    Many of the nerfs that were listed as 'for the sake of being fair' are merely attempts to hide nerfs to the very few viable team comps, under the guise of a St.Han nerf.
    Now, back to the JTR nerf; JTR was specifically marketed as being an ultimate raid team, turning around and using that as justification to nerf her is not only morally questionable, but qualifies as deceptive advertising. This would be fine if she were 'perhaps the best defensive team ever', but she is not, she is a complete liability on defense. Many people spent money on her specifically for raid viability, which is ok, except when she's nerfed not because she's too powerful, but because of aforementioned reasons.
    The purpose of this post is not to berate your developers as creative personnel, you have constructed what is undoubtedly my favorite phone game ever, but rather convey that pretty much everyone wanted more teams to be usable in the sith raid, not less. You have said you want the same goal, but if what you are telling us is acrually true, allowing other teams proper viability in the new raid is the correct answer to this problem, not playing whack-a-mole with every viable composition we come up with
  • TVF
    36526 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    I'd like to know too, I'm hoping to get one more raid in before JTR gets urfed (it's not a full nerf) and we get more JTRs in my guild. ;)
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • ABNRAS
    564 posts Member
    This raid is just awful
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    I'm convinced they only brought back JTR early in order to try to offset this damage reduction. They thought that guilds could still do the raid in the same amount of time if they gave guilds more JTRs.

    Naturally everyone who was expecting 4.5 months and got 3 months are left out in the cold. It will be interesting to see if they bring her back again in early May, as I believe they originally intended.

    I agree with all of this. They probably might even have guild member data and % of JTrey owners per guild on which they based it. Maybe. lol

    @CG_RyDiggs - not to be a bother, but is there at least an "estimate" on when these changes will go live? Are we talking by the end of the week? End of the month? Or just "soon"? ;)

    "Slightly" "soon"er than "August"
  • NicWester
    8928 posts Member
    I think you need to reduce tge health pool by more than 5%, but otherwise I’m okay with all this.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
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