Appreciation. An under used word

Skye
794 posts Member
Over the last day or so I watched the fallout over the Barriss change in particular. And frankly some of the stuff I have been reading is very shocking..

The devs won't put a figure out there as there will be legal consequences of such action... But I'm gonna ask people a few questions...

1. How much do they think this game costs to make?
2. How much do you think it costs to maintain the servers?
3. How much do you think it costs to keep adding content to this game?
4. HOw much do you think Disney Charges EA for the Star Wars License to produce this game?

I doubt anyone can give an exact figure here who is not associated with or working for EA, but I'm pretty sure the answer to any of the questions above isn't nothing.

So who pays for this game? If no one pays for this game's maintance and development, do you think you have a game to play?

So before any of you start attacking those that have spent a bit of money on this game no matter how little or how much, you should be thankful because they are the ones paying for this game so that you can actually play it.

The issue of a refund over the Barriss pack should not be taken likely by anyone. The moment this game is in the red, trust me it will have the plug pulled. Then maybe you realise it wasn't such a great idea to alienate the guys that probably spent hundreds or several thousands on the game.

End of the day this game is a business to EA and their investors. When it doesn't make money it gets canned. There is no such thing as a free to play game especially when it comes to any computer game, someone ends up paying somehow somewhere.

I do know about anyone else, but if you spent some money, no matter how little or how much on this game no matter what it was for, crystals, packs or character packs...

A sincere thank you.
Former crazy person of the guild "Shard Awakens"... *quit game 13th July 2016*

Game used to be fun when it wasn't a grind... if I wanted a grind I would have went and played old school Everquest or some Korean MMO!

Replies

  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    Wow. What a rare breath of fresh air on a gaming forum. Thanks.
    As someone who does spend some (though not tons of) money, let me return the thanks to free players. Because a game like this also needs lots of people to succeed..
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • I would assume only a small minority of players give a hoot about bariss, and they are flooding the forums with hate
    There's no point in asking for a refund
  • I am having fun figuring out where and how to use her now, she has a place for sure.

    Rolling with the punches is just another dynamic in the game.
  • Skye
    794 posts Member
    I would assume only a small minority of players give a hoot about bariss, and they are flooding the forums with hate
    There's no point in asking for a refund

    You're missing my point. This post wasn't about that, it's about the fact I am seeing people attacking people who have paid money for this game for whatever, not neccessarily Barriss
    Former crazy person of the guild "Shard Awakens"... *quit game 13th July 2016*

    Game used to be fun when it wasn't a grind... if I wanted a grind I would have went and played old school Everquest or some Korean MMO!
  • Skye wrote: »
    I would assume only a small minority of players give a hoot about bariss, and they are flooding the forums with hate
    There's no point in asking for a refund

    You're missing my point. This post wasn't about that, it's about the fact I am seeing people attacking people who have paid money for this game for whatever, not neccessarily Barriss

    Oh I didn't know people were bashing the ones who are buying stuff
    That's silly, as they are most likely jealous they don't have the disposable currency

    I'm sure I missed your point again lol
  • I just brought up the same point on one of the complain/flame threads. No one has a clue what these types of games cost to develop, maintain and continue producing content for. Just the avg salary of an app developer can range from 60k-90k a year and you'll need a full team, project managers, engineers, people to handle server side issues, community forums, support, misc overhead costs, oh and the people that sit at the top... they wanna make a lot of money too-

    Some quick numbers I ran were 52,110 downloads on itunes, i dont know androids figures so i doubled it and rounded up to 110,000 downloads - if every player bought the $5 x 110,000 = 550,000 ... that's roughly 8 developers at 65k/yr

    Games cost hundreds of thousands if not millions to develop and maintain for large companies even if they can reuse resources for multiple games or platforms.
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    Let's also keep some perspective here in another way: EA showed a profit of over $250 million last year. This is not some small struggling startup.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • How much do you think it costs to build a WalMart? How much do you think it costs to pay WalMarts employees? How much do you think it costs to pay the electric bill? So, by **** logic, WalMart should do away with customer service desk where people exchange the items that they bought but didnt match their expectations, or which broke unreasonably quick. They should also do away with security, cause there should be risk to the consumer when they shop. Come on people! I'm broadcasting that I'm an **** on the internet!
    "There is no 'try'." - Master Yoda
  • Pilot wrote: »
    How much do you think it costs to build a WalMart? How much do you think it costs to pay WalMarts employees? How much do you think it costs to pay the electric bill? So, by **** logic, WalMart should do away with customer service desk where people exchange the items that they bought but didnt match their expectations, or which broke unreasonably quick. They should also do away with security, cause there should be risk to the consumer when they shop. Come on people! I'm broadcasting that I'm an **** on the internet!

    Lol exactly, money and costs doesn't make them better than others, money doesn't buy respect and apprication. Good work ethics, customer satisfaction, loyalty and good service, do however, and all of that is free.
  • Otar
    252 posts Member
    I find it even more odd, that after all the costs people are showing here (and maybe some more), why they had to hire a freaking intern to do the math and balance of the game? Why they didn't revise the game texts and abilities? Why after months of "soft release" they left so many bugs and inconsistencies around???
  • Otar wrote: »
    I find it even more odd, that after all the costs people are showing here (and maybe some more), why they had to hire a freaking intern to do the math and balance of the game? Why they didn't revise the game texts and abilities? Why after months of "soft release" they left so many bugs and inconsistencies around???

    Because it comes down to priorities in a development queue. If you haven't worked in that field in most cases people are put on certian tasks or assignments and they try to complete those in a priority order set by a project/product manager. Things like text changes as simple as they seem tend to take the back burner for most complex and potentially game breaking problems. A lot of which you don't even see while playing the game but come up inside the testing environment. The game can still be functional but these issues can cause long-term problems.
    It also depends how they have structured the development of the game and how easy it is to access and change certain aspects that will or won't affect other areas. Just throwing that out there coming from that background, a lot of simple things within the system aren't easy to implement - although they should be =/

    Also @queltar then showing their numbers from last year even at the tune of $250million doesn't justify anything. $250 million can be spent very quickly and they might already be in the red on some items that never made it to the black. EA covers a lot of platforms and a multitude of games. Each one has to survive on its own merit and justify the costs.
  • Leapster wrote: »
    Because it comes down to priorities in a development queue. If you haven't worked in that field in most cases people are put on certian tasks or assignments and they try to complete those in a priority order set by a project/product manager. Things like text changes as simple as they seem tend to take the back burner for most complex and potentially game breaking problems. A lot of which you don't even see while playing the game but come up inside the testing environment. The game can still be functional but these issues can cause long-term problems.
    It also depends how they have structured the development of the game and how easy it is to access and change certain aspects that will or won't affect other areas. Just throwing that out there coming from that background, a lot of simple things within the system aren't easy to implement - although they should be =/

    All that means to me is, someone, somewhere did a mistake, totally fine and common, but how can they not see it and release the game anyway? It feels like there is no test and no revision to it, it seems as if the devs dont play their own game, because the players in less then a week, flooded the foruns with issues, that seem so simple, ex: chars that get high inteligence, bonus special damage and special crit, gear that add to those and the char, simply have no means of doing special damage!
  • My breath smells like cat food.
  • Otar wrote: »
    Leapster wrote: »
    Because it comes down to priorities in a development queue. If you haven't worked in that field in most cases people are put on certian tasks or assignments and they try to complete those in a priority order set by a project/product manager. Things like text changes as simple as they seem tend to take the back burner for most complex and potentially game breaking problems. A lot of which you don't even see while playing the game but come up inside the testing environment. The game can still be functional but these issues can cause long-term problems.
    It also depends how they have structured the development of the game and how easy it is to access and change certain aspects that will or won't affect other areas. Just throwing that out there coming from that background, a lot of simple things within the system aren't easy to implement - although they should be =/

    All that means to me is, someone, somewhere did a mistake, totally fine and common, but how can they not see it and release the game anyway? It feels like there is no test and no revision to it, it seems as if the devs dont play their own game, because the players in less then a week, flooded the foruns with issues, that seem so simple, ex: chars that get high inteligence, bonus special damage and special crit, gear that add to those and the char, simply have no means of doing special damage!

    You can test in a testing environment forever and still not catch stuff until you push it out to the masses. It's just the way things work in development. You can try your damnest to catch it all but you won't ever get it all and until it hits that live environment for hundreds, thousands or more people and high usage you won't know.
    Now that they know I'm sure they have a priority of what to fix and an estimation of how long but you have to work that in with all the other content they are working on. You can't stop working on future content to patch everything because people will get bored and you'll lose time on progressing features of the game quick enough. It's a really tough position to get a victory from - either way it's kind of you're damned if you do or damned if you don't. Sometimes a fix to one thing can break another and snowball errors... there's a lot to it. It isn't easy. If it was as simple as people thought then it'd all be fixed and every game or piece of software that launches would be perfect, but that NEVER happens, not once, not ever will software or hardware be perfect prior to massive use.
  • >Some quick numbers I ran were 52,110

    the developers might be so awed by posts like this. The game is within CLOSE TO TOP IN THE TOP GROSSING category in the USA store. The game is free to play, and the SW movie just launched yesterday. Combine the two and expect many more downloads, in hoardes. And since F2P, most of this spending is likely going to recurr.

    The company that made Candy Crush is worth over $15B dollars not for nothing. And this little simple, limited game with "Coming Soon" levels is grossing EA copious amounts of benefits, way in excess if production costs. Things are very easy: the studios and EA will try to create the most addicting games, and do anything to keep it fun and charge as much as they can get away with, every time. And paid users couldn't care less about the whiners, or funding development. They are not developers, or investing in the game. They are spending money because the developers offer something they deem spend-worthy.

    The games that are MOST at risk are ones that don't charge all that they could or need. This is not at all the case and never will for the foreseable future. EA is an expert in gaming princing, and Disney a marketing genious.
  • Pokebreaker
    736 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    >Some quick numbers I ran were 52,110

    the developers might be so awed by posts like this. The game is within CLOSE TO TOP IN THE TOP GROSSING category in the USA store. The game is free to play, and the SW movie just launched yesterday. Combine the two and expect many more downloads, in hoardes. And since F2P, most of this spending is likely going to recurr.

    The company that made Candy Crush is worth over $15B dollars not for nothing. And this little simple, limited game with "Coming Soon" levels is grossing EA copious amounts of benefits, way in excess if production costs. Things are very easy: the studios and EA will try to create the most addicting games, and do anything to keep it fun and charge as much as they can get away with, every time. And paid users couldn't care less about the whiners, or funding development. They are not developers, or investing in the game. They are spending money because the developers offer something they deem spend-worthy.

    The games that are MOST at risk are ones that don't charge all that they could or need. This is not at all the case and never will for the foreseable future. EA is an expert in gaming princing, and Disney a marketing genious.

    Exactly. Very well said.




    Skye wrote: »
    You're missing my point. This post wasn't about that, it's about the fact I am seeing people attacking people who have paid money for this game for whatever, not neccessarily Barriss

    Folks aren't attacking those that spent money. They are attacking those who spent money SOLELY for the sake of a significant competitive advantage.

    You can make it sound as noble as you'd like, but there is a difference between those who are making donation style contributions, and those that are contributing ONLY to gain the MOST advantage. When it comes to world of gaming (especially F2Ps), and ones that offer PvP play/ranking systems; P2W mentalities will always be shunned and looked down upon. Kind of like the tactic of "corner camping with a shotgun" in shooter games.

    The biggest difference is when folks bring their P2W successes to the forums. I mean what are they expecting, to get some kudos for buying their way to the top? That would be like a presidential candidate buying their way into office, then coming back around acting like they achieved the position with the same amount of effort and obstacles as those who couldn't/wouldn't pay the price (oh wait).

    I agree that the money contributes to the games length of existence. However, something being out of balance can disrupt cash flow as well. Let's say there are 50 players. One drops $50 for extreme early access to an OP item, and the other 49 are F2P, but aren't opposed to giving a few dollars if they like the experience; We'll say $5, equaling $245.

    Well, the OP item starts to cause a disruption, and becomes a hindrance to those who are long far off from ever obtaining it. This alienates the F2P players to the point where they are no longer a potential spender, and they move on to a different game, or continue playing with no intention of ever spending even a single dollar. Now the $50 player has single-handedly driven off a potential $245 profit. However, the $50 player thinks they are justified, because they contributed, and that they should be immune to game changes.

    Those numbers are purely for example, as the spending player base is more around .22%, on top of the fact that there are many more reasons for players to quit the game or choose to never spend.

    Post edited by Pokebreaker on
  • A business model that nerfs the premium P2W charachters (Barriss) and buffs the F2P Characters (Sid) after people have spent hundreds or thousands to build a team is not too bright if you want people to continue to support your product.

    The strategy it seems most employ is to complain about every powerful charachters they don't have so that EA nerfs the premium charachters and the free ones become the most powerful. However, it's important to remember that people paid for Qui Gon... Ben Kenobi... Barriss. Next on the nerf list is Leah and probably Maul since they buffed him through the roof.

    I understand minor tweaks... But Barriss is not even a threat now when I face her. I used to have to shut her down and deal with her everytime she was faced. Now I simply ignore her because her heal feels more like AoE damage to the opposing team rather than a heal.
  • To be honest, it's stupid to Nerf a character that people paid 50 bucks for. It's basically bad business practice and discouraging loyalty
  • Chewdoka wrote: »
    A business model that nerfs the premium P2W charachters (Barriss) and buffs the F2P Characters (Sid) after people have spent hundreds or thousands to build a team is not too bright if you want people to continue to support your product.

    The strategy it seems most employ is to complain about every powerful charachters they don't have so that EA nerfs the premium charachters and the free ones become the most powerful. However, it's important to remember that people paid for Qui Gon... Ben Kenobi... Barriss. Next on the nerf list is Leah and probably Maul since they buffed him through the roof.

    I understand minor tweaks... But Barriss is not even a threat now when I face her. I used to have to shut her down and deal with her everytime she was faced. Now I simply ignore her because her heal feels more like AoE damage to the opposing team rather than a heal.

    You seem to forget this same process occurs in games outside of F2P as well. Nerfs and buffs are a natural part of game balance. Console and PC games go through this all of the time. Folks don't get a pass to throw off the balance of a game just because they contributed, and if they do, the game will be labeled as a P2W game, and that is the last title a developer wants on their game; as it instantly drives away most players before even trying the game, even those who might be willing to spend some money if they like it.
  • We've discussed nerfs and buffs a LOT over the last day here at Capital Games, for obvious reasons.

    One thing is for certain: We will not make decisions about how to balance the game based on who is buying characters or not buying characters. We want a fun, interesting, strategic game.

    -Aaron
  • Rolf
    1032 posts Member
    And that's a win for all! P2P and F2P alike. If the game isn't fun because of imbalances, then why would any of us want to play?
    My ally code: 296-673-769. Wish we could have more than 35.
  • We've discussed nerfs and buffs a LOT over the last day here at Capital Games, for obvious reasons.

    One thing is for certain: We will not make decisions about how to balance the game based on who is buying characters or not buying characters. We want a fun, interesting, strategic game.

    -Aaron

    +1
  • Skye
    794 posts Member
    edited December 2015


    Skye wrote: »
    You're missing my point. This post wasn't about that, it's about the fact I am seeing people attacking people who have paid money for this game for whatever, not neccessarily Barriss

    Folks aren't attacking those that spent money. They are attacking those who spent money SOLELY for the sake of a significant competitive advantage.

    Not from my perspective. I'm not denying the last part of what you are saying... The fact of the matter is the moment you (not you personally, generally speaking) attack anyone who spent money on the game, that includes those that you say bought it for an advantage, even those that don't will feel victimised...

    I knew from the start posting this topic was going to be hard to avoid sarcastic responses (not saying yours was) and also avoid the topic of Barriss's nerf as this was the catalysis for a lot of what I saw.

    My point still stands.. Those that spend money on the game for whatever purpose within game still have my thanks cause without them, we don't have a game cause EA and Disney wouldn't be making it if they didn't think they couldn't make money from it. They too deserve recognition cause this game is pretty fun, regardless of recent changes.


    Former crazy person of the guild "Shard Awakens"... *quit game 13th July 2016*

    Game used to be fun when it wasn't a grind... if I wanted a grind I would have went and played old school Everquest or some Korean MMO!
  • CronozNL
    2863 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    Also when I bought the 50 bariss pack I did expect an advantage which I did get. People seem to forget how we used those chars (and still use) to clear campaign content, events & challenges & GW table.
    All the discussions here are "PVP" based which is basicly another AI fight, but with the difference to show off in rank list. A list where nobody knows anybody and isnt even global. Just enjoy the content and help make it better.
    Like aaron mentioned, if balance and strategy comes before paying customers then I can only be happy.
    Without changes in a game it gets less interesting (imo).
    Buffing something else instead of solely nerfing chars or a combination of the two works better for the majority of players that want to shift setup every now and then.

    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
  • Skye wrote: »


    Skye wrote: »
    You're missing my point. This post wasn't about that, it's about the fact I am seeing people attacking people who have paid money for this game for whatever, not neccessarily Barriss

    Folks aren't attacking those that spent money. They are attacking those who spent money SOLELY for the sake of a significant competitive advantage.

    Not from my perspective. I'm not denying the last part of what you are saying... The fact of the matter is the moment you (not you personally, generally speaking) attack anyone who spent money on the game, that includes those that you say bought it for an advantage, even those that don't will feel victimised...

    I knew from the start posting this topic was going to be hard to avoid sarcastic responses (not saying yours was) and also avoid the topic of Barriss's nerf as this was the catalysis for a lot of what I saw.

    My point still stands.. Those that spend money on the game for whatever purpose within game still have my thanks cause without them, we don't have a game cause EA and Disney wouldn't be making it if they didn't think they couldn't make money from it. They too deserve recognition cause this game is pretty fun, regardless of recent changes.


    I agree for the most part. There's not much else to say, seeing how you make a very reasonable argument.
  • I still see lots of Barris in the top brackets of arena...and she still heals perfectly okay in arena.
  • Chewdoka wrote: »
    A business model that nerfs the premium P2W charachters (Barriss) and buffs the F2P Characters (Sid) after people have spent hundreds or thousands to build a team is not too bright if you want people to continue to support your product.

    The strategy it seems most employ is to complain about every powerful charachters they don't have so that EA nerfs the premium charachters and the free ones become the most powerful. However, it's important to remember that people paid for Qui Gon... Ben Kenobi... Barriss. Next on the nerf list is Leah and probably Maul since they buffed him through the roof.

    I understand minor tweaks... But Barriss is not even a threat now when I face her. I used to have to shut her down and deal with her everytime she was faced. Now I simply ignore her because her heal feels more like AoE damage to the opposing team rather than a heal.

    I'm a free player who spoke out for paying players on exactly what Chewdoka stated here. I never bashed anyone for paying to move ahead quicker, that's freedom for you and it doesn't bother me in principle. I'm sure EA didn't have the intention of screwing paying customers purposely but in the end, they own the failure in regards to balancing things properly. I like the paying player. Many have been friendly like WhipiT, who has a post to help others who are behind him in rank and his post provided me great insight into the future. In close, when I criticize something, it's in my view a valid issue that effects all players. I also try to provide a solution or theory to solve it...
    The New Rebellion
    Guild Founder
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    We've discussed nerfs and buffs a LOT over the last day here at Capital Games, for obvious reasons.

    One thing is for certain: We will not make decisions about how to balance the game based on who is buying characters or not buying characters. We want a fun, interesting, strategic game.

    -Aaron

    With all due respect, I find it very hard to believe that you would have nerfed Barriss into a niche role if she hadn't been all over the place, and that happened because she was bought.
    I don't assign any ill motive to you guys.. I don't think you said "hey let's put Barriss in a pack and then nerf her later". But I think this was poorly handled. And it only happened because the pack was popular.
    Strictly from a game design standpoint (as a gamer who literally goes back to "Pong") I still maintain that what you guys did to Barriss was excessive and unfair. If you were going to reduce her main heal by 50% or more, you should have given her something else to compensate.
    You've made a character that only heals unviable as a healer in PvP. She has her equalize, which is useful in some fights and useless in others. Her main heal is a joke.
    Also, isn't her cleanse still bugged? If you were going to take the time to adjust her, it would have been nice if you fixed one of her few abilities.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
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