[Feedback] Last update broke everything about the Sith team in my opinion

Replies

  • Tekka
    26 posts Member
    I have found plenty to get annoyed at with this game (I’m looking at you 100 arena refreshes to get 5 spots up and mod management) but the DS reworks have been just as advertised.

    Not sure how your expectations weren’t met with the new characters specifically (the raid I think could be better, but did I miss the post that said the sith were going to be unbeatable God’s and if you don’t have them day one you will never win again?) Are you modded well? Maybe people are attacking your sith team disproportionately because they are new and people want to see how their team performs.

    My palp L, Vader, Sion, DN, GAT wreck face, the lowest I’ve gone down after payout is 22. What you have described you are experiencing with our new sith overlords is contrary to what I’ve seen. Palp hits for 15-18k on a crit, Sion gets 32k Crits with his hatred buff at 6*. He takes a while to ramp up, but that’s how he was designed. Vader aoe’s, gets 100% tm from palp, throws his saber and gives the rest of the team 50% tm from palps leadership....I’m confused as to what’s not to like here. Sion even gets rid of JTRs 8 million buffs and foresight so GAT can fracture. They are super viable at top levels, before I literally could not use palpatine and Vader in a team and win, it was JTR, Luke, some lame Rex amalgamation or bust. Not to say there isn’t room for improvement, but imo they improved sith and I enjoy using them.
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    Also got to love how he says "WE as a community".
    As if he's an actual part of this community, other than a message relay from the designers & devs to the player base.
    My postman isn't part of my local community.
  • Whut wrote: »
    Wow, just wow.
    Might find that a little difficult, if it's left to you & your colleagues to do when everyone stops posting here. Especially with that sort of attitude!

    Telling people not to farm a specific faction does NOT do what you incorrectly claim, in a rather strange & paranoid fashion.
    It passes on his opinion about a single faction & single named character. He doesn't once tell people to do anything even remotely connected with "undermining the game".
    He tells people to steer clear of a specific faction & one specific character.
    I considered that to be advice for people playing the game & not even in the same ballpark?
    If telling people not to play, then you'd have a valid point.

    Perhaps, if you want to successfully promote their game, maybe try sorting your content out? That's called self-promotion & it spreads well via positive word of mouth, rather than the type that you're creating with this type of snippy response.

    Talking about things that are perhaps wrong with the game doesn't undermine the game.
    Things being wrong with the game is what does.

    I'm sorry if the attitude of advocating for the longterm health of the Community and Game is jarring. We (Capital Games and moderators) have been enforcing this, but I'm putting words to why we do what we do.

    If you think this game will wither because we don't tolerate undermining comments (we DO allow constructive criticism) then 3 years of this policy has resulted in a game that is growing and thriving. We may have to agree to disagree.
    Whut wrote: »
    Telling people not to farm a specific faction does NOT do what you incorrectly claim, in a rather strange & paranoid fashion.

    Farming recommendations are ENCOURAGED (check our New Player section, they need help. Seriously, your input would help them and the game!). However, that is not the topic or the post of concern.

    The OP says:
    Don't invest in any Sith especially Sion.

    Regards

    Now, YOU may read that as, Don't FARM any sith especially don't FARM Sion. I don't.

    We will agree to disagree, and I'm ok with that. I hope you are too.
    It is my prerogative to err on the side of 'health of the community and game' when making these decisions, I hope that is your intention as well.

    Additionally, he chose to use my General Forum as his soapbox to express his opinion, so I will give it a finer judgment and (I think rightfully so) be more sensitive here, than maybe if he had chosen to post this in the Sion character discussion thread here: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/160169/character-strategy-darth-sion/p1

    In the Character and Arena Strategy forum, you are dealing with a more finely tuned audience who are working off of data and experience to formulate and explore theories. Which some times fall into recommendation to or not to invest in a character.

    In THAT forum, I understand.

    The OP chose General Forum, to express their opinion, and so, I act with the intentions of the General Forum. Which is to Promote the Community and the Game.

    I hope that clarifies, but understand if we agree to disagree. I'm hoping clarifications will help our community understands what we do and why we do it.

    IF you present Constructive Criticism, then we can dialog and collaborate.

    IF you intend to use the General Forum as a soapbox to undermine the Community and Game, then action will be taken.

    We're here to promote the game and community. We invite you to do so as well :)

    RT

    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Tekka
    26 posts Member
    My postman who lives in my town is definitely part of my community. Where do you think your postman goes after work? Do you think your postman doesn’t also receive mail?
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Tekka wrote: »
    My postman who lives in my town is definitely part of my community. Where do you think your postman goes after work? Do you think your postman doesn’t also receive mail?
    I don't live in a town, I live in a City.
    After they've finished their rounds, the postmen get back in their vans and return to the depot a few miles away.
    When they've finished their shifts, I assume that they go home, wherever that may be.
    None of the ones that deliver to my house live in my area &, therefore, are not a part of my community.

    If he lived in my community, then he would be delivering the mail to his own house when he received any! lol
    Post edited by Whut on
  • @CG_RyDiggs

    Your response here once again is unprofessional and condescending. The community is extremely upset with how this new raid was handled. Continuing to belittle customers is not a good business model, no matter what they said.

    A big issue we have is the picking and choosing of what you decide to actually respond to. You say valid and constructive criticism is welcome, but yet many posts go unanswered. You spent a great deal of time on this post, but refuse to answer questions regarding useless gear as rewards, numerous bugs still in the game, etc.

    You bring up the bug forum and why we are in general chat, it’s because we have numerous bugs still in the game that don’t get addressed. We feel we have no other option than to post in general when valid concerns appear to be ignored.

    Many love the game still, but with continuous bugs, nerfing to fix mistakes not caught in testing, condescending attitudes, etc, make its very hard to want to keep investing.
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    @CG_RyDiggs
    Fair enough, can accept a lot of your explanation & will agree to respectfully disagree on some, too.
    You are quite correct with your view of my intent. I enjoy the game & would love to see it rise, but by its strength, rather than by "promotion".
    I did read "don't invest in Sith" as "don't farm Sith". As a mid time player, my investment is time & I do not consider in-game purchases an investment, simply a purchase.
    Can see why your first thought was to read it as "don't spend money on Sith". That's why I referred to it as paranoid.
    Different perspectives form different views, I guess.
    From mine, your post was far more hostile and damaging to a community vibe, than his.
  • AnnerDoon
    1353 posts Member
    I hope this comes across as constructive criticism ... If the devs would quit pushing bugs out with every content update, maybe players wouldn't feel the need to be so vocal about the fact that there are so many bugs. We shouldn't be beta testing the updates. We should be enjoying playing the new content.
  • Is this a bad time to ask for double drops on vet nodes?
    Still waiting on that edit forum profile setting so I can change my name...
  • SSB
    72 posts Member
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    @Tromedlov13 thank you for voicing your opinion. Consider this your warning regarding directing fellow players to not invest time or energy in the game.

    Telling players they should NOT invest time or energy in the game does not help the game, and thus does not support the game you love so much!

    Examples of corrections below:
    Was sitting easily between 34-40 with Sith team.

    You bring out the latest update and now that team can't beat CUP as a stand alone toon.

    Hyperbolic, but you're welcome to your sensational opinion here :smile:
    The team never gets a crti and hits like a wet noodle.

    More hyperbole, colorful and evocative but not really fact based per se. You could be a great politician! (joking!)
    What did you do.

    I think this is a question but you wrote as a sentence. Assuming it is a question, we were very clear about the changes in our update. I'll link it here for you: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/162743/content-update-3-13-2018#latest

    Also, if you want to talk about character experiences, we have a whole section here to discuss facts and relay data with your fellow players in hopes of moving out of hyperbole and into fact feedback. You don't have to join, but you're always welcome to!
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/categories/characters-and-strategy
    I'm going back to RJT.
    Sounds like a great plan for you. If you want to talk about theorycrafting and data feedback with fellow gamers about the sith raid, come over here: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/categories/territorywars

    We're having a pretty lively discussion.
    Don't invest in any Sith especially Sion.

    OK, this is where your frustration spills over into actively working against the forums and the game, and where I need to step in.

    If YOU don't like it, and YOU have data you want to share why it could be improved or why other characters might be more effective, YOU are free to share your data and thoughts.

    Actively undermining the game based on your feelings, will ... undermine the game and then... you won't have a game. Do you see why we chose to protect the long term benefit of the game?

    I invite you to edit your comments to be more in line with the goal of these forums, which is to promote the game, even with critical feedback ;)
    Regards

    And best regards to YOU! Have a GREAT weekend!

    CG_RyDiggs

    Slow clap... loved the response
  • Tekka
    26 posts Member
    Whut wrote: »
    Tekka wrote: »
    My postman who lives in my town is definitely part of my community. Where do you think your postman goes after work? Do you think your postman doesn’t also receive mail?
    I don't live in a town, I live in a City.
    After they've finished their rounds, the postmen get back in their vans and return to the depot.
    When they've finished their shifts, they go home, wherever that may be.
    None of the ones that deliver to my house live in my area, therefore not in my community.

    I guess our definition of community is different. People who provide goods and services to me are part of my community, regardless of geographic location. If I interact with them and they interact with me that interaction makes a community. You don’t feel a moderator has the right to feel like they are part of the community they serve, I strongly disagree.
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Tekka wrote: »
    I guess our definition of community is different. People who provide goods and services to me are part of my community, regardless of geographic location. If I interact with them and they interact with me that interaction makes a community. You don’t feel a moderator has the right to feel like they are part of the community they serve, I strongly disagree.
    Yes, our definitions of community are different. Mine is the same as the dictionary's & is predicated on a shared location.

    I interact with people in different countries in call centres when I ring to pay a bill.
    I never see my postman, so have more actual interaction with them, than with him.
    I would not consider them a part of my community.
    Same as I do not consider the guys who deliver my packages from Amazon or any other online purchase a part of my community, despite them providing both goods and services to me.
    Basic interaction with someone doesn't even necessarily establish a relationship, never mind a community.

    I do not feel the way you suggest which, by the way, seems more like a statement, than a question?
    He absolutely has "the right" to feel part of a community, as does anyone else who actively participates in it and contributes to it.

    Question for you:
    If someone is not affected by decisions made that do affect the entire rest of the community, then are they a part of it?
  • I think @CG_RyDiggs has just had a lot to deal with the last few days guys with all the complaints, justified ones and nonsensical

    That doesn't justify his behavior. You would think a Manager would be well versed in handling complaints, and would be adult enough to know when to stay out and shut up let players/customers vent. If Diggs cannot do his job--and the more posts I see from him in this forum, the more convinced I am that he cannot handle the Public Relations role he has/was voltuneered for; nevermind that, as Development Manager, he seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding aboutt he game itself--he should make way for someone who can. Diggs' response turned this into a Thing, when, without him, it would have either been forgotten or used as a springboard for troubleshooting the issue(s) OP was complaining about (which, in turn, could have very well given Diggs' and the other devs insight into the real issue at hand).

    Instead he got offended over simple, if frustrated, feedback--which he could have taken constructively as "there's something wrong with Sith damage now" and promised to look into it--and ripped into someone who probably dropped a couple hundred dollars on Sion to begin with and felt that his money was wasted. Someone who was only trying to communicate that they regretted spending their resources on that particular thing (and if advising people where to (not) spend their resources is suddenly a Very Bad Thing we should probably delete the New Player and Arena Character Strategy forums). A little perspective, empathy, and a whole lot less hatred/contempt for the player(base) was all that was needed to turn this from a negative customer experience to a positie one.

    Imagine if--instead of acting like the blue-haired denizens of Twitter responding to a POTUS tweet--Diggs had handled this more professionally: "I'm sorry about the inconvenience" and "could you tell me a little bit more about Sion and Sith not meeting expectations? Is anyone else having these issues?" and "any details you have could help us solve this issue" and "I appreciate any feedback you have, but please keep in mind Forum guidelines (and then quoted the applicable bit)." It would go a long way towards soothing OP, and make people lurking--and witnessing the interaction--feel a bit more comfortable about spending their money here.

    EA/CG has always had issues with customer service, but I, for one, am still disgusted by this sort of behavior. I'm half expecting this post to be deleted and to be banned/warned for making it, but know that doing so would only prove my point.
  • Jeric
    271 posts Member
    @CG_RyDiggs you know, even when a customer is wrong, one should probably refrain from calling the customer hyperbolic, especially in a passive aggressive manner, and certainly in public. You seem to be falling into that unfortunate mindset that software is self perpetuating, a pervasive view in software development, but when it is driven by customers this view can cause an erosion of customer service. You are a public voice and face of Capital Games, and while I appreciate and understand your loyalty to the product, there is a level of self discipline that comes with the territory that seems absent in some of your comments.

    In the players experience, the Sith faction seems to be impacted negatively. His frustration a led to a venting post in which he suggested one not invest in a specific character. The appropriate response is to acknowledge with a blameless apology, ask a few probing questions, and attempt to diffuse the anger. Even if it doesn't work with the OP, you have the nameless readers of this topic who would read this type of reply and that professionalism would inform their opinion. Remember, when you engage a customer publicly, you are indirectly engaging every customer that witnesses the interaction. Better to take the high road than self-indulgence.
  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »

    Woah, thats a ton of salt! I can't believe thats how @CG_RyDiggs responds to someone voicing their concerns. If there is a problem with scion then why can't he warn people to stay away for now? More importantly, why are you being so mean in your responses to him? I get throwing a tiny amount of shade now and then but this seems just malicious to me. Also, he never advocated for not playing the game, just a warning about a bug character.

    Believe it. You're welcome to post your thoughts and feelings, I'm all for it.

    I won't abide players undermining the health or promotion of the game.

    You don't like a char? Fine, let us know where it is missing expectation. Let us know your experience.
    I'm all about it.

    You tell players to undermine the success of this game, then this forum is not for you.

    You can come correctly with constructive criticism. You cannot undermine our community or game.

    I hope the difference is understood. :smile:

    I'm trying to be clear, not mean. This is VERY serious, but it's for everyone.

    My apologies if it is coming off insensitive, but I want to be clear :)

    More smilies!

    @CG_RyDiggs talking about improvements, I have experienced that Sion's last ability rarely triggers before an arena fight ends or triggers only when it is too late. Please consider reducing the ability cooldown. He is a decent toon but we are rarely able to use one of his main abilities.
  • I like the salt. Keep it coming.

    Same. So many of these posts are just fanatical tirades that are much ado about nadda. To the point, if the OP thinks we shouldn’t invest in a toon tell us why.

    Another point not being considered, someone could post on a forum that a toon is not worth investing in (when they actually are) and deter other players from doing so. Thus, giving said poster an advantage. That’s why it’s totally appropriate for the team to object to these types of blanket statements in the forums.
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    Rebel_yell wrote: »
    Another point not being considered, someone could post on a forum that a toon is not worth investing in (when they actually are) and deter other players from doing so. Thus, giving said poster an advantage. That’s why it’s totally appropriate for the team to object to these types of blanket statements in the forums.
    The reason that point is probably not being considered, is because anyone who blindly follows said false "advice" only have themselves to blame for any negative impact which they experience through not verifying the information before acting upon it.
  • Jeric wrote: »
    @CG_RyDiggs you know, even when a customer is wrong, one should probably refrain from calling the customer hyperbolic, especially in a passive aggressive manner, and certainly in public. You seem to be falling into that unfortunate mindset that software is self perpetuating, a pervasive view in software development, but when it is driven by customers this view can cause an erosion of customer service. You are a public voice and face of Capital Games, and while I appreciate and understand your loyalty to the product, there is a level of self discipline that comes with the territory that seems absent in some of your comments.

    In the players experience, the Sith faction seems to be impacted negatively. His frustration a led to a venting post in which he suggested one not invest in a specific character. The appropriate response is to acknowledge with a blameless apology, ask a few probing questions, and attempt to diffuse the anger. Even if it doesn't work with the OP, you have the nameless readers of this topic who would read this type of reply and that professionalism would inform their opinion. Remember, when you engage a customer publicly, you are indirectly engaging every customer that witnesses the interaction. Better to take the high road than self-indulgence.

    Posts like this come across as pompous and condescending to me. Why wouldn't you share this with him in a DM? You accuse him of what I interprete as public shaming and then go on to shame him in public.

    Folks on this forum have been clamoring for more communication and the instant it shows up the response is that it's not the type of communication we like.

    I understand what you're saying. There are ways to diffuse tense situations and ways to appease folks without committing to anything. The challenge in Internet forums seems to be that the bar is set impossibly high and falling short of the unachievable expectations is tantamount to not caring about your customers.

    @CG_RyDiggs is making an effort. Let's not scare him off.
  • Ely
    161 posts Member
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    More smilies!

    Best ever! (Not joking). It's just missing chewie shards or something o:)<3<3
  • The Sith raid and the problems with Sion are problems that need to be addressed. Some players seem to think that money is more important to cg than a happy player base. I don't know where they get these ideas, but I can tell you that many guilds are being ripped apart because of the raid. I suppose we should say thank you instead of pointing out problems or voicing our opinions.
  • Hello all!

    First, thank you ALL for your contributions to this GREAT conversation. I've been wanting to have it for YEARS, since we released this game. I'm EXCITED to continue it.

    1. I will SINK this thread over the weekend. Meaning it will not float to the top with new posts.
    BECAUSE, this thread for 2 days in the top of General will NOT promote the game and community overall.
    2. I will bring the thread BACK on Monday, when I'm back in the office, and we will all continue.
    3. REMEMBER: There are 10's of thousands of you. There is 1 of me.
    I pick and chose my responses. Read through the entire thread, THEN decide if I haven't already answered your question. I'm not going to be able to answer everyone.

    You will have to be OK with that, because I won't apologize for or change that fact.
    HOWEVER, I often see the same questions restated many times. I'm sure we can have a dialog, or learn to. Either way, it will PROMOTE the community and the game :)


    Have a GREAT weekend! TTYL (Monday afternoon~ish?)!


    CG_RyDiggs
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Hello all!

    First, thank you ALL for your contributions to this GREAT conversation. I've been wanting to have it for YEARS, since we released this game. I'm EXCITED to continue it.

    1. I will SINK this thread over the weekend. Meaning it will not float to the top with new posts.
    BECAUSE, this thread for 2 days in the top of General will NOT promote the game and community overall.
    2. I will bring the thread BACK on Monday, when I'm back in the office, and we will all continue.
    3. REMEMBER: There are 10's of thousands of you. There is 1 of me.
    I pick and chose my responses. Read through the entire thread, THEN decide if I haven't already answered your question. I'm not going to be able to answer everyone.

    You will have to be OK with that, because I won't apologize for or change that fact.
    HOWEVER, I often see the same questions restated many times. I'm sure we can have a dialog, or learn to. Either way, it will PROMOTE the community and the game :)


    Have a GREAT weekend! TTYL (Monday afternoon~ish?)!


    CG_RyDiggs

    Same questions get asked over and over because they don’t get answered. Actually answering them will do wonders for the health of the game, attitude of this forum, and relationship between us and you.

  • Tekka
    26 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    1.Community: a feeling of fellowship with others, as a result of sharing common attitudes, interests, and goals.
    "the sense of community that organized religion can provide"

    Not predicated on location.

    2. I do not feel the way you suggest which, by the way, seems more like a statement, than a question?
    He absolutely has "the right" to feel part of a community, as does anyone else who actively participates in it and contributes to it.

    If you do not feel the way I suggested (I said ‘you don’t feel a moderator has the right to feel like a part of the community which he serves, which was a statement) what do you mean by: “Also got to love how he says "WE as a community". As if he's an actual part of this community” (the original post I was responding to)

    3. Answer: sometimes. If you think of America as a community (I do) or any nation or organization that has tiered membership, there are a litany of examples available. The leadership of an organization makes regulations that affect the community in general, but not the leadership in particular. I am bound by laws that do not affect me personally, yet I consider myself to be a part of the community to which those laws apply. For example, a home owners association says you have to clean up after your pet, I don’t own a pet. That rule does not affect me directly, but it does not mean I’m not part of the homeowners association.

    Edited for clarity
  • Brownie
    298 posts Member
    Where are the mods at? I feel like RyDiggs should be put in forum jail for his comments here today...
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    That's the thing, if you see the same question posted 50 times, answering it is the best way to stop that from rising to 200 & people becoming more & more frustrated by being ignored.
    It's not about having a dialogue or learning to, it's about giving a straight answer to the 50 versions of the same question, rather than side-stepping.
    People will gain some respect for the former, but lose any for the latter. Lost respect or broken trust is harder to regain than starting with none & earning some.
  • catharsis478
    676 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Feeling a little overwhelmed, eh? Or simply not looking forward to going through another thousand post thread? (Which I don't entirely blame you for; this thread in particular would be like getting the performance review from hell.)

    Either way: have a good weekend Diggs.
  • Brownie wrote: »
    Where are the mods at? I feel like RyDiggs should be put in forum jail for his comments here today...

    I will ponder this existential question over the weekend. It's a doozy, thank you.
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • clarkdiesel
    306 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Where are the mods at? I feel like RyDiggs should be put in forum jail for his comments here today...

    I will ponder this existential question over the weekend. It's a doozy, thank you.

    Just can’t help yourself....have to be passive aggressive. You guys created this mess. Please have some thicker skin. Your continued responses like this don’t “PROMOTE the community and the game.”


  • Brownie
    298 posts Member
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Where are the mods at? I feel like RyDiggs should be put in forum jail for his comments here today...

    I will ponder this existential question over the weekend. It's a doozy, thank you.

    Hope you still have a job to come back to after the weekend. I dont know what world you live in, but if I talked to a client/customer the way you did, I’d be looking for work.

    Do you guys just get to say whatever you want with zero consequences?
  • kello_511
    1648 posts Member
    Brownie wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Brownie wrote: »
    Where are the mods at? I feel like RyDiggs should be put in forum jail for his comments here today...

    I will ponder this existential question over the weekend. It's a doozy, thank you.

    Hope you still have a job to come back to after the weekend. I dont know what world you live in, but if I talked to a client/customer the way you did, I’d be looking for work.

    Do you guys just get to say whatever you want with zero consequences?

    There are always consequences.
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