[Feedback] Last update broke everything about the Sith team in my opinion

Replies

  • Whut wrote: »
    @CG_RyDiggs My point about being part of the community, is that if you were seen to share some of the player's feelings, then that would go a long way to everyone having a shared pov, rather than the "them & us" scenario which has developed here since the Sith Raid launch & subsequent updates & which, to be fair, your initial post kind of exacerbated.
    Them & us, is not a community. Sometimes the corporate front needs to come down in order to connect. Look at the opinions of the players, from a player's perspective, not from a business model one.

    Hmmm, I'll work to be more consistent:

    I view Capital Games as part of this community. It does too.
    Without the community, there is no game.
    Without the game, there is no community.
    Without either one, there is no Studio and we can't pay our mortgages of feed our children.

    So, we are the game, we are the community. We have to be, even if it doesn't feel like that on your side.

    Parents, although they act very differently, abide by different rules, keep much of the information to themselves are still key parts of the family.

    I hope that gives insight as to why I should be saying We the community and Our collective community including players AND Studio.

    Very interesting, as I make that assumption, but should probably clarify it more often.

    Thank you!

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • SoonerJBD wrote: »
    @CG_RyDiggs As a PR and marketing professional, let me offer a little of the constructive criticism you have encouraged.

    You have made an innocuous and harmless post that would have been quickly ignored into a conversation about you and your behavior, which will now be one of the most read and engaged posts in the forum for several days, with most of the comments being negative.

    One of the most common complaints I see on these forums is about players feeling they are treated dismissively by your company, that the only thing the company cares about is revenue. Your responses in this post only reinforce that view. The OP didn’t suggest people not spend money, time or effort on the game. He clearly intended to communicate that players should spend those resources on other characters than those he was complaining about. Ironically, I and most others would have rolled our eyes and moved on because the argument made was very weak. But your aggressive reaction, which seems to only have been triggered by the tinyest perceived threat to revenue, will make many of us who would be inclined to defend you lose our sympathy and further question your concern for player experience and product quality as opposed to money.

    We don’t see this kind of enthusiastic and emotional response when you are responding to legitimate complaints relating to player experience. If you showed such concern for your customers as you have in this thread for your revenue, you would build a lot of goodwill with the player base. Instead, you have done the opposite.

    @SoonerJBD

    You are correct, we could have just deleted, moved, warned the person and everyone moved on status quo.

    I don't want status quo.

    I want players to know what is inappropriate, I want a culture that understands:


    Promoting Boycotts, Disengagement, Non Participation, etc for the purpose of change is counter productive and actually LIMITS our resources to affect the change.



    As I stated before, I chose this post so that we can all have a conversation of what is and isn't appropriate and more importantly, WHY.

    Yes, I did that intentionally on purpose.

    I see that you read the post as such:
    "The OP didn’t suggest people not spend money, time or effort on the game. He clearly intended to communicate that players should spend those resources on other characters than those he was complaining about."

    We will have to agree to disagree, which is why I want to discuss this with the players here now, and will likely have it again, but as we all culturally understand what and why, it will be less impact and more culturally expected.

    We will get to the 'legitimate' complaints, there is only one of me so far :) I'm working at it, but first:

    OP and players should understand clearly, everything on the post was fine EXCEPT when he stated:
    "Don't invest in any Sith especially Sion."

    I see that we will agree to disagree, which I'm OK with, but I'm glad we got to have a clarifying moment. I look forward to more!

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • kello_511 wrote: »
    There are a few facts that are at play here:

    -Sion’s zeta WAS broken (but has since been fixed)
    -other characters (including sith, like savage) have zetas that aren’t working correctly either.
    -Some characters who didn’t work as intended remained broken for months/years (Teebo for example)

    I believe OP wasn’t aware of the fact that Sion has been fixed. I read his “don’t invest” comment to be a warning that the character isn’t working as intended, which I think is a fair warning (admittedly it was phrased poorly, due to OPs frustration).

    So which is more damaging to the long term health of this game?

    1. Someone comes on the forums to warn players that this character (and others who synergies with him) are not currently working as intended, so anyone considering spending money on them should be aware before they “invest” in them.

    OR

    2. Players spend hundreds (maybe thousands?) of dollars and rare zeta materials only to find out afterwards that the character doesn’t work as intended?

    My suggestion is that #2 is much worse for the long term health of the game, as it could discourage those players from spending anymore (I would personally be livid about that).

    I understand the policy and the importance of policing it, and I have seen plenty of posts on this forum that clearly were in clear violation of that policy. In my opinion, this post did not fall into that category so cleanly. Not everyone reads the bugs section, so it’s a post that warns players “before you decide to spend money on this character, you should know that some parts of it aren’t working properly”.

    What’s gotten lost in the ensuing discussion is:
    -Sion is now fixed
    -other bugs have been reported and are actively being resolved (I assume)

    Those 2 points along with a gentle reminder to the OP about his tone probably would have been the best course of action in this case.
    I understand the desire to “make an example” out of someone, but this post may have been a poor choice for that purpose.

    Every part of what you say could be factual.

    None of it excuses players saying 'Don't invest, Don't engage, Boycott' or any other area.

    IF Op want's to change the statements to,

    "Sion isn't as powerful as I thought he was. I'm not sure if he's working, can we get validations?"

    OR

    Go to the character discussion area and see if his expectations are being seen elswhere

    OR

    Go to the Bugs area and report the bug



    HOWEVER:

    He chose to use the General forum for his soapbox of venting frustration topped with a recommendation that players not engage in the game.

    That's where it went off rails, and that's the point of this thread.

    For better or worse, we're going to talk about it.

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Atrreyu wrote: »
    @CG_RyDiggs the real question is why do you evade the question of garbage rewards in the new broken raid? We want a concrete response as to why are players who beat the new sith raid get the same garbage rewards that many have hundreds and thousands of. What's the point of rolling out a new raid that is difficult, you nerf the viable teams, you basically make it a requirement to get jtr as you've pigeon holed many with what can be used only to then get such lack luster rewards. If you think about it it's pointless to run this raid. One gets the same rewards in other raids. We'd be very interested in hearing your rebuttal and not a politicians response basically speaking and saying nothing. Savvy

    I do NOT mean to be dismissive, but you're attempting to derail the topic, as that is not the real question here.

    Apologies, but please stay on this topic for now. We have time, we'll get to other topics in other threads. I'm not going anywhere (except home) anytime soon :)

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Atrreyu
    130 posts Member
    @CG_RyDiggs I wrote it here because in other postings you evaded the question. It's not hard sir. It's a very simple question. I'm not trying to be combative nor call you out. I just know it's a question many want answered. Here it is again.

    @CG_RyDiggs We want a concrete response as to why are players who beat the new sith raid get the same garbage rewards that many have hundreds and thousands of. What's the point of rolling out a new raid that is difficult, you nerf the viable teams, you basically make it a requirement to get jtr as you've pigeon holed many with what can be used only to then get such lack luster rewards. If you think about it it's pointless to run this raid. One gets the same rewards in other raids. We'd be very interested in hearing your rebuttal and not a politicians response basically speaking and saying nothing. Savvy
  • @CG_RyDiggs It’s like you are reading from a script sometimes with all the “agree to disagree” comments and the lack of actual engagement with any legitimate criticism. I just don’t understand who trains people to do customer service or public relations this way. It’s baffling.

    The OP did not tell anyone to boycott, and your continued insistence to the contrary just makes you and the company look awful. You are doing the exact opposite of promoting the continued health of the game.

    You literally just compared yourself to a parent dealing with children (customers) who don’t need to know everything the adults are doing. Do you not see how problematic that tone is?

    Nobody is reading this conversation and coming away with a better understanding of what is and isn’t allowed on the forums. They are coming away stunned at your tone deaf, patronizing and hostile attitude and your utter lack of professionalism.
  • My problem is that as a result of playing this game, getting frustrated with elements not working as they should, parts of the game being heavily imbalanced and other parts being flat out not fun we as gamers (and your paying customers) get frustrated and sometimes flat out angry at the game.

    In the world of customer service of which you're a part of @CG_RyDiggs and CG as a whole, it's your job to make us feel better as a customer. If you had responded in that way to a customer in real life (whether you think their concerns about your product are justified or not) you would shortly be getting chewed out by your manager after that customer made a formal complaint about you (maybe it's different in the US to the UK or Australia where I've lived and people don't pride themselves on customer service though?). For some reason customer complaints online here just aren't treated the same but they are the same. Maybe you don't feel it is because it's just an anonymous online post that you can gloss over/ignore/delete.

    This is my second account to post on these forums after my first account got one too many warnings from trigger happy mods who seemed to object how I worded things. They weren't favourable towards EA or CG, but they came from me having genuine concerns about this game and what I perceive as a lack of action to resolve the community's concerns and an even bigger lack of communication. Instead of talking to me as a customer I got the equivalent of 'shut up and go away' (that's me being nice about how I feel about that). How do you think that made me as a paying customer? Hint, it did not make me feel like giving you any further custom and so I haven't.

    TL:DR, how we're treated by CG staff on here make people feel like they're being treated like children and even worse, it makes us feel like our concerns are being ignored. Your reply to this post just exemplifies that in public. Every negative post about the game on here comes from a genuine annoyance with the game, but more often than not those posts are hushed over or ignored. Now I'll go and copy what I've written here because that's the lack of trust I now have with this forum about posting how I actually feel here and whether it will be deleted or not.

    You say that we (as paying customers) should remember what guidelines to stick by when posting on here, don't forget that you and the mods should also have guidelines about how you respond to the community and in particular, how you deal with people who aren't happy

    I understand there is a culture shift necessary that we all need to make. One where the players can voice concerns and complaints. Yes, you should be able to express complaints!

    However, players also need to abide forum rules and understand that we can express concerns and feedback without resorting to 'Boycott, Don't buy, Don't participate, Leave the game, the world is ending, etc.'

    On studio side, my communicating WHAT WE CAN, as early as we possibly can is movement towards a more happy medium.

    Finally, I will reinforce to players, we will do our best, all the time, every time as fast as we can as much as we can.

    If it takes us time to fix something, then that's what it takes.

    Set your expectations accordingly.

    Sorry, I'm getting preachy, but I'm hoping the message conveys. :)

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Lrrr
    172 posts Member
    @CG_RyDiggs what I find funny is how you seemingly always talks about the health of the game and community and how you listen to the players...but when presented with a 700+ post response to a change players weren’t happen with, it was CG knows better, shrug.

    I’m not saying your wrong for protecting your salary, but I do think the forums could use a different dev or contact from CG. You seem to consistently rely on how your right, unhappy players are wrong and don’t exaclty do it in the friendliest is tones (at least how I read it)

    Just because you write smiley at the end of a condescending post doesn’t make it ok.

    Anyway, I’m sure you’ve run from this by now, like seems to happen to any thread that grows too big (or you know cancerous because it’s not cheering the supposed well being of the game).
  • Atrreyu wrote: »
    @CG_RyDiggs I wrote it here because in other postings you evaded the question. It's not hard sir. It's a very simple question. I'm not trying to be combative nor call you out. I just know it's a question many want answered. Here it is again.

    @CG_RyDiggs We want a concrete response as to why are players who beat the new sith raid get the same garbage rewards that many have hundreds and thousands of. What's the point of rolling out a new raid that is difficult, you nerf the viable teams, you basically make it a requirement to get jtr as you've pigeon holed many with what can be used only to then get such lack luster rewards. If you think about it it's pointless to run this raid. One gets the same rewards in other raids. We'd be very interested in hearing your rebuttal and not a politicians response basically speaking and saying nothing. Savvy

    Make another thread please. I'll get to it when I can, and appreciate you're trying not to be combative. I'll get to it when I can :)
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • I have participated in a lot of game forums over the years, and I’ve never seen one where the official communication from the developer on the forum was handled this poorly.
  • SoonerJBD wrote: »
    I have participated in a lot of game forums over the years, and I’ve never seen one where the official communication from the developer on the forum was handled this poorly.

    I'm sorry to disappoint, I'll work to improve. I think we can.

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Chocov24
    14 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Really? Guys for once stop complaining and play the game, the devs are working hard to keep us entertain, the sith raid is hard as hell, so less complain and more theory crafting!! Please! Keep working on strategies and even with that if it still too hard, work other toons, ask the devs if something is wrong, I don't think that the comments of @CG_RyDiggs are out of control/salt or whatever, imagine yourself to have 5/10/20 thousand kids complaining because they can't at the First/2nd/3/4/.. try, just play the game or get out of the forums, I'm **** as some **** are wanting to boycott or complain for everything of a game that is very difficult to build, maintain and develop new challenges, yes new challenges, the tipping point is when a raid is to easy everyone feels entitled to do the same, instead of pushing themselves to do it or you don't do it/did it with HPit or HAAT? Hell, I love challenges, the harder the better!

    Thanks CG for this amazing game, you guys made me quit playing on my Xbox and PC, just to play this game, love every challenge, the only thing that I don't like is the drop rate of stun guns and carbantis!! Lol

    Keep up the great work

    Sorry for my English, is my second language

    Chocov
  • Atrreyu
    130 posts Member
    @CG_RyDiggs ok fair enough. I'm going to hold you to it, as you said you'd give us a response. Thank you for your time.
  • Atrreyu wrote: »
    @CG_RyDiggs ok fair enough. I'm going to hold you to it, as you said you'd give us a response. Thank you for your time.

    I said I'll get to it when I can, which means when I have it as a priority. Please don't mis construe or hold me to a commitment I didn't make.

    TTYL!

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Atrreyu wrote: »
    @CG_RyDiggs the real question is why do you evade the question of garbage rewards in the new broken raid? We want a concrete response as to why are players who beat the new sith raid get the same garbage rewards that many have hundreds and thousands of. What's the point of rolling out a new raid that is difficult, you nerf the viable teams, you basically make it a requirement to get jtr as you've pigeon holed many with what can be used only to then get such lack luster rewards. If you think about it it's pointless to run this raid. One gets the same rewards in other raids. We'd be very interested in hearing your rebuttal and not a politicians response basically speaking and saying nothing. Savvy

    I do NOT mean to be dismissive, but you're attempting to derail the topic, as that is not the real question here.

    Apologies, but please stay on this topic for now. We have time, we'll get to other topics in other threads. I'm not going anywhere (except home) anytime soon :)

    RT

    But that is THE issue brought up the most recently. It’s already been brought up several times in this thread alone. That’s the one area you could address that would curtail the SAME question over and over and go a long way towards repairing the bridge between devs and players. You can’t say you don’t mean to be dismissive and then be dismissive and expect there not be more frustration. Raids are taking a long time for a lot of guilds. You talk about investment. Time is the most precious investment we have to give. Spending hours and days to complete a raid that already feels broken and our best team got nerfed, only to get lackluster rewards with gears pieces we have 1000s, doesn’t go a long way towards protecting the health of the game.

  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    I think @CG_RyDiggs has just had a lot to deal with the last few days guys with all the complaints, justified ones and nonsensical

    That doesn't justify his behavior. You would think a Manager would be well versed in handling complaints, and would be adult enough to know when to stay out and shut up let players/customers vent. If Diggs cannot do his job--and the more posts I see from him in this forum, the more convinced I am that he cannot handle the Public Relations role he has/was voltuneered for; nevermind that, as Development Manager, he seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding aboutt he game itself--he should make way for someone who can. Diggs' response turned this into a Thing, when, without him, it would have either been forgotten or used as a springboard for troubleshooting the issue(s) OP was complaining about (which, in turn, could have very well given Diggs' and the other devs insight into the real issue at hand).

    Instead he got offended over simple, if frustrated, feedback--which he could have taken constructively as "there's something wrong with Sith damage now" and promised to look into it--and ripped into someone who probably dropped a couple hundred dollars on Sion to begin with and felt that his money was wasted. Someone who was only trying to communicate that they regretted spending their resources on that particular thing (and if advising people where to (not) spend their resources is suddenly a Very Bad Thing we should probably delete the New Player and Arena Character Strategy forums). A little perspective, empathy, and a whole lot less hatred/contempt for the player(base) was all that was needed to turn this from a negative customer experience to a positie one.

    Imagine if--instead of acting like the blue-haired denizens of Twitter responding to a POTUS tweet--Diggs had handled this more professionally: "I'm sorry about the inconvenience" and "could you tell me a little bit more about Sion and Sith not meeting expectations? Is anyone else having these issues?" and "any details you have could help us solve this issue" and "I appreciate any feedback you have, but please keep in mind Forum guidelines (and then quoted the applicable bit)." It would go a long way towards soothing OP, and make people lurking--and witnessing the interaction--feel a bit more comfortable about spending their money here.

    EA/CG has always had issues with customer service, but I, for one, am still disgusted by this sort of behavior. I'm half expecting this post to be deleted and to be banned/warned for making it, but know that doing so would only prove my point.

    @catharsis478 , much appreciated, but @Boba_The_Fetter is somewhat correct. We are having a big issue over a small thing. I chose this hill :) You are AWESOME to think of me as a person though, I and the studio appreciate that sooo MUCH!

    Cheers!

    @Boba_The_Fetter,

    I should be going home, but you deserve some sort of response for this articulate and thought out post. I see that my points of:

    1. The forum's purpose is to promote the community and the game.
    2. I chose this thread, to make point #1 so that we could have a dialog.

    If I'm to blunt, too cold, to rude, to callous, that is all actionable and review-able feedback. I'll take it.

    I'm not staying out, and I'm not shutting up, I hope we can learn to dialog.

    However, your sentiment of letting players vent, yes, sometimes that is what's needed for the health of the game. You are VERY wise to understand this concept and I'm happy to see it conveyed :)

    I'll reiterate, you are absolutely correct. I chose this post as an example of what my and the studio's expectations are for this General Forum and the thread. Looking back, what I thought was light and casual could be taken as flippant if someone were sensitive to the text and smilies were not taken into account. I'll consider that in the future, and thanks :)

    Rest assured, the context of the post (Sion isn't meeting expectation) has been conveyed to Devs, but this ongoing dialog is about the culture of this forum and how together we will shift it.

    Strangely, I didn't get nor am I frustrated, I chose this post explicitly as an example:

    On this forum, what is OK and what is NOT OK, and;

    WHY it is not OK. I don't think the community is clear on why certain things are not acceptable, AND are self destructive when you think through them logically.

    If you already understand those things, then this might seem like a confusing concept to you, as my audience is others.

    I'm not trying to be 'soft' or 'nice' about this point. I want it to be crystal clear, in plain speak.

    I do not intend to offend, and I see some players have taken offence. If so, please know that wasn't the intent.

    Beyond that, to my point:

    Do you feel players should be able to voice feelings of Boycott, Don't invest, Don't play this game on these forums?

    I'm interested, and we have a dialog :)

    RT

    I think you mixed us up there, but to reply:

    Honestly? Yes.

    I am always going to prefer more freedom regarding speech and what can be said, than less. While that isn't always practical--especially when you're a private company catering to and striving for family-friendly--it allows you to dig your teeth into and understand the issue(s) at hand without the risk of the conversation devolving into a "you can't say that; that isn't allowed" and "lol CG is scared/unprofessional" kittenfest, leaving the (ex-)customer feeling as though their thoughts/feelings/reasoning don't matter and aren't valid (nevermind the people who are watching and aren't piping up, but feel the same way). If someone is calling for a boycott the first instinct shouldn't be to condemn/silence, but to listen and try to understand why; it could very well be the difference between losing that customer for life and winning them back (nevermind what they may or may not do in other areas of the internet/social media).

    Sure, that could get a little hairy and/or uncomfortable, but think of the potential rewards. Figure out how to talk to your customers--text may not always convey it well, but you will figure it out; we'll tell you when you're doing it wrong, survive a few stings and you'll soon be old hat--manage our expectations, and let us know what's going on, and... well, suddenly 90% of your PR nightmare is gone.

    To address the rest of your post: my primary gripe isn't that you want to talk to us, it was how you chose to do so. The way you choose to conduct yourself matters. Take a moment to reread what you wrote to the OP--and try to do so from an outside perspective. Forget what your intentions were, what you were trying to do and your initial goal, and ask yourself how you would react if you were the frustrated paying customer and a company representative treated you that way; would you ever patronize them again?--and maybe you'll get that many of us saw it as an attack, as grossly unprofessional, and as derisive (no, I am not being hyperbolic). There is a way to meet your goals--express what the General Forum is intended to be--without coming across that way.

    Also, maybe it's a little nit-picky, but the smilies always come across as just shy of mocking; almost as if you're trying to appease the crazy forum people. Ah well, as I said; you'll figure out how to talk to us (hopefully before we drive you to smacking your face against a wall because no matter what you do we never seem to read you right).
  • Atrreyu
    130 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    @CG_RyDiggs I think you misread what I said. It wasn't to get a rise out of you. Relax man. It's cool. ✌don't sound like a politician, it's bad for business. Cheers
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    He chose to use the General forum for his soapbox of venting frustration topped with a recommendation that players not engage in the game.

    That's where it went off rails, and that's the point of this thread.

    For better or worse, we're going to talk about it.

    RT
    Oh mate, again? No, he did not. You chose to perceive it in that way, most other readers did not.
    Either way, there was absolutely no recommendation that players "do not engage in the game".
    We already had the discussion about the investment part, where it could just as easily be referring to time invested in the faction.
    It could be saying "invest in something else", it might not, but "Do not invest in Sith" is indisputably not saying do not play or engage in the game.
  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    SoonerJBD wrote: »
    I have participated in a lot of game forums over the years, and I’ve never seen one where the official communication from the developer on the forum was handled this poorly.

    I'm sorry to disappoint, I'll work to improve. I think we can.

    RT

    The biggest disappointment is that people who pay A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY (see: ME) on stuff in this game don't even warrant a response on why developer design doesn't, in any way, INCLUDE the characters they JUST INTRODUCED via marquee.

    And you are of the opinion that we should curtail our rhetoric? That certain things like "boycott" or "don't invest in X" will not be tolerated? I mean...I don't have to tolerate myopic implementation of mechanics that conveniently displace characters released weeks prior. I don't have to tolerate such indignant responses on the forums by people being paid to be the liaison to the developers. I don't have to tolerate cash grabs and panic farms. I don't have to tolerate "limited time offers" and matchmaking algorithms that cannot be definitively articulated despite immediate consequence to ME. The person PAYING for things.

    This whale is beached.
  • Atrreyu
    130 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    @CG_RyDiggs anytime someone talks about messing with CG's pockets you guys are quick to respond and when valid questions regarding the game arise y'all are quick to be dismissive. It seems y'all don't learn from the fallout with battlefront 2. We the people keep this game afloat because of our passion for Star Wars, that said it doesn't look well when questions are dodged and you seemingly belittle players and dismiss legitimate questions. Integrity and morale fiber... Savvy
  • CG_RyDiggs
    536 posts SWGOH Dev Team
    edited March 2018
    Whut wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    He chose to use the General forum for his soapbox of venting frustration topped with a recommendation that players not engage in the game.

    That's where it went off rails, and that's the point of this thread.

    For better or worse, we're going to talk about it.

    RT
    Oh mate, again? No, he did not. You chose to perceive it in that way, most other readers did not.
    Either way, there was absolutely no recommendation that players "do not engage in the game".
    We already had the discussion about the investment part, where it could just as easily be referring to time invested in the faction.
    It could be saying "invest in something else", it might not, but "Do not invest in Sith" is indisputably not saying do not play or engage in the game.

    If OP changes the line to say:


    "invest in something else" then my work here is done. Agreed!

    It doesn't and we're going to talk about the differences :smile:

    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • Snake2
    1455 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Since we've been given the opportunity in this thread to discuss this issue, i will take advantage of it.

    There can be no true community on these forums with the rules as they are. I used to be an avid member of these forums, but whenever it became so tightly controlled (a year, year and a half ago?), it became stifled.

    In a true community, if someone said don't invest in sion, and he was wrong, he'd be corrected by other community members. "Actually he's pretty good in certain teams." Etc etc.

    Just as in life, in this game it's not all sunshine and roses. If you can't freely discuss both sides of the coin, you can't have a real community.

    The simple truth is you can't be real on these forums. Anyone that's been around this game long enough knows that. The true community exists on reddit and discord. What's here is just a strange mouthpiece for ea. A ton of effort is expended by paid representatives and unpaid moderators to turn newish players into game promoters by controlling what's allowed to be seen.
  • catharsis478
    676 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    ...

    I will respectfully disagree and I think that will be our sticking point, but I'm Ok to disagree.
    These forums are for the SOLE purpose of promoting the SWGOH

    ...

    RT

    Will you take a moment to define what you mean by "promoting?" It might be more conductive to the conversation if we all understand what you mean by that.

    edit: tfw typos
  • Snake2 wrote: »
    Since we've been given the opportunity in this thread to discuss this issue, i will take advantage of it.

    There can be no true community on these forums with the rules as they are. I used to be an avid member of these forums, but whenever it became so tightly controlled (a year, year and a half ago?), it became stifled.

    In a true community, if someone said don't invest in sion, and he was wrong, he'd be corrected by other community members. "Actually he's pretty good in certain teams." Etc etc.

    Just as in life, in this game it's not all sunshine and roses. If you can't freely discuss both sides of the coin, you can't have a real community.

    The simple truth is you can't be real on these forums. Anyone that's been around this game long enough knows that. The true community exists on reddit and discord. What's here is just a strange mouthpiece for ea. A ton of effort is expended by paid representatives and unpaid moderators to turn newish players into game promoters by controlling what's allowed to be seen.

    Strangely, I agree with you. I think it's important for us all to collectively understand the expectations of these forums.

    It's not going to happen today, this weekend or this month. However, over time, we will re-develop a culture of dialog.

    It will start with dialog, and I VERY much thank you for your criticism and observations.

    These forums have come a long way, and with time, together we can build a culture even better.


    RT
    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • It seems like it should also be pointed out that we could be having the discussion @CG_RyDiggs wants to have about what is and is not allowed on the forums if the initial response was polite and not openly hostile.

    If you want to highlight an issue of forum behavior so people will have a clearer understanding of what is expected of them, it helps when you behave professionally and avoid patronizing and insulting comments. You are alienating the player base every time you respond this way.
  • Whut
    40 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    If OP changes the line to say:
    "invest in something else" then my work here is done. Agreed!

    It doesn't and we're going to talk about the differences :smile:

    RT
    I appreciate your point & I was initially in agreement with this, but then stopped and came to the realisation that, to be fair, I don't quite see why he should have to specify that people should invest in something else?
    I mean, if he's saying don't invest in a certain faction, then the people that were planning to will be thankful and most probably already be planning which other faction to invest in anyway.
    Regardless of whether their investment is time or money.
    Him telling them to do so, is a little redundant.

    The only harm I can see that it would do to the game, is if a prospective new player came to the forums to gather info first, before downloading and playing. In that case, your concern would seem to be considerably more appropriate.

    Gathering from your earlier posts in the discussion that, to you, investment equates to money, not time, I think what you've suggested here, seems a little mercenary, though. As if trying to only allow criticism if it can be used as an advertisement?
    Appreciate that it is a business but, as before, it's a matter of perspective & building a rapport. Put yourself in your customer's place & describe how you would feel towards the product or the staff if suffering from their complaints?

    Anyway, off for some shut-eye, so will wish you well & good night. :smile:
  • Whut wrote: »
    CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    If OP changes the line to say:
    "invest in something else" then my work here is done. Agreed!

    It doesn't and we're going to talk about the differences :smile:

    RT
    I appreciate your point & I was initially in agreement with this, but then stopped and came to the realisation that, to be fair, I don't quite see why he should have to specify that people should invest in something else?
    I mean, if he's saying don't invest in a certain faction, then the people that were planning to will be thankful and most probably already be planning which other faction to invest in anyway.
    Regardless of whether their investment is time or money.
    Him telling them to do so, is a little redundant.

    The only harm I can see that it would do to the game, is if a prospective new player came to the forums to gather info first, before downloading and playing. In that case, your concern would seem to be considerably more appropriate.

    Gathering from your earlier posts in the discussion that, to you, investment equates to money, not time, I think what you've suggested here, seems a little mercenary, though.

    Anyway, off for some shut-eye, so will wish you well & good night. :smile:

    Thanks for the feedback and alternate view, I'll definitely consider it.

    Me too!

    Gnite!

    Development Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
  • It’s also frustrating for players to be constantly told that you will get to their legitimate complaints (like raid rewards), then you don’t answer those complaints even though they have been repeated dozens of times over multiple threads. But you have the time to spend hours replying because you perceived an innocuous comment as a threat to your revenue.

    You aren’t always going to have answers people want to hear. But a little bit of candor and just an acknowledgement would go a long way. Something like, “I can’t make any promises about raid rewards unless we have an official announcement, but I will bring this up internally given the community response,” would at least let people know someone at the company is giving a voice to their concerns.
  • CG_RyDiggs wrote: »
    Atrreyu wrote: »
    @CG_RyDiggs I wrote it here because in other postings you evaded the question. It's not hard sir. It's a very simple question. I'm not trying to be combative nor call you out. I just know it's a question many want answered. Here it is again.

    @CG_RyDiggs We want a concrete response as to why are players who beat the new sith raid get the same garbage rewards that many have hundreds and thousands of. What's the point of rolling out a new raid that is difficult, you nerf the viable teams, you basically make it a requirement to get jtr as you've pigeon holed many with what can be used only to then get such lack luster rewards. If you think about it it's pointless to run this raid. One gets the same rewards in other raids. We'd be very interested in hearing your rebuttal and not a politicians response basically speaking and saying nothing. Savvy

    Make another thread please. I'll get to it when I can, and appreciate you're trying not to be combative. I'll get to it when I can :)

    Numerous threads have already been made regarding this topic that have quickly been moved to Raids section of feedback. These post go backs for months and months with no response. Once the nerf was enforced to expose, again, the biggest issue in the megthread was useless gear we have 1000s of dropping from raids. Please make it a priority. By doing so, it eliminates THE most brought up question/subject.

  • This has been interesting reading.

    I think it may have been a bit much to immediately jump to the conclusion that the OP was referring to only money when he used the word “invest.” You can upgrade Sion with in-game resources only, i.e. credits, ability mats, Zetas, crystals earned from arena/daily activities, etc. Perhaps that’s what the OP meant? Or maybe he was just referring to people’s time?

    I find it particularly interesting, however, that you chose what many people would consider a P2W character as your example of what people should/shouldn’t post on the forum.

    I do hope there will be more latitude allowed in criticism on these forums as you have said is coming. Constructive criticism of course, but as many have said in this thread already, it seemed like any criticism, constructive or otherwise, was immediately shut down by what I consider to be overzealous mods.
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