After re-reading this thread and the many posts, I admit, I agree with many here. I chose the wrong hill.
I chose the wrong example to make my point and the choice has had the opposite effect of my intention. I understand that, and apologize to you for that. I'll be more aware of my hills in the future.
My intent was to begin the dialog around why posting rules are enforced on these forums.
I can see the OP as being an opinion on value, not necessarily a call to action.
I apologize to you Tromedlov13. I see your intent as voicing opinion on the value of Sith and Sion. Not necessarily that players should not invest in the game or units at all, the way I first read the post. I'm wiser for your post and thank you.
I will lift the sink of this thread and let players continue to discuss the perceived or realized value of Darth Sion and Sith in general, as I believe the OP intended.
NOTE: I WILL be making a thread next week on the topic of: "Why posting boycotts, refund requests, discouraging players to engage in the game is not constructive and why this policy is in the best interest of the players." for us to all talk about. I invite you all to join in.
More thank yous to the community for this dialog and working with me to see your points. I have a wider perspective for it and appreciate you taking the time.
*edit to remove tags*
AND all who read through to follow the discussion.
A sincere thank you and I look forward to talking with you next week!
After re-reading this thread and the many posts, I admit, I agree with many here. I chose the wrong hill.
I chose the wrong example to make my point and the choice has had the opposite effect of my intention. I understand that, and apologize to you for that. I'll be more aware of my hills in the future.
My intent was to begin the dialog around why posting rules are enforced on these forums.
I can see the OP as being an opinion on value, not necessarily a call to action.
I apologize to you Tromedlov13. I see your intent as voicing opinion on the value of Sith and Sion. Not necessarily that players should not invest in the game or units at all, the way I first read the post. I'm wiser for your post and thank you.
I will lift the sink of this thread and let players continue to discuss the perceived or realized value of Darth Sion and Sith in general, as I believe the OP intended.
NOTE: I WILL be making a thread next week on the topic of: "Why posting boycotts, refund requests, discouraging players to engage in the game is not constructive and why this policy is in the best interest of the players." for us to all talk about. I invite you all to join in.
More thank yous to the community for this dialog and working with me to see your points. I have a wider perspective for it and appreciate you taking the time.
Specific thank you to: harbingerofrock for being the first to call it out concisely and diplomatically. I was reading it another way, but on reflection, you nailed it on your first post. Well done
In that light, thank yous as well to: *edit to remove tags*
AND all who read through to follow the discussion.
A sincere thank you and I look forward to talking with you next week!
I like the answers from Ryan. Maybe a little bit too much and not as eloquent as usual, but much better than any standard corporate phrases that really mean nothing. Good Job!
Very good start @CG_RyDiggs. Thanks for the second look, and inner retrospective.
LOL. You're thanks is not needed. RyDiggs said nothing wrong. He was apologetic to make a peace he didn't have to because he's actually a big hearted human being. But many here thinks he is the boogy man and are looking for him to 'fail', be 'reprinmanded', or even 'fired' because of a forever ungrateful attitude here on these forums. I applaud his response and find them refreshing.
Yet I wasn't one of those. Maybe I'm critical of his methods, but those are things that can be worked on. No need to call for his head, as some have done.
And I was thankful he made an attempt, forced or not. Time will tell if it was sincere.
So you're going to judge his sincerity... Maybe you weren't the crowd, but comments like that passive aggressiveness doesn't help either. I do disagree with RyDiggs apology. The forums are like internet sharks who smell an apology as blood in the water. I bet he knows that, and still apologized because he really does care.
Considering that the senior producer of the game posted in the Dev Announcements section essentially apologizing for this thread and the overall bad recent communication, I’m guessing he was told to apologize. I’m willing to take it at face value, regardless. You are entitled to your opinion, but consider that 99 percent of the player response on this thread disagrees with you, and it’s clear CG has recognized as much.
Very good start @CG_RyDiggs. Thanks for the second look, and inner retrospective.
LOL. You're thanks is not needed. RyDiggs said nothing wrong. He was apologetic to make a peace he didn't have to because he's actually a big hearted human being. But many here thinks he is the boogy man and are looking for him to 'fail', be 'reprinmanded', or even 'fired' because of a forever ungrateful attitude here on these forums. I applaud his response and find them refreshing.
Yet I wasn't one of those. Maybe I'm critical of his methods, but those are things that can be worked on. No need to call for his head, as some have done.
And I was thankful he made an attempt, forced or not. Time will tell if it was sincere.
So you're going to judge his sincerity... Maybe you weren't the crowd, but comments like that passive aggressiveness doesn't help either. I do disagree with RyDiggs apology. The forums are like internet sharks who smell an apology as blood in the water. I bet he knows that, and still apologized because he really does care.
Considering that the senior producer of the game posted in the Dev Announcements section essentially apologizing for this thread and the overall bad recent communication, I’m guessing he was told to apologize. I’m willing to take it at face value, regardless. You are entitled to your opinion, but consider that 99 percent of the player response on this thread disagrees with you, and it’s clear CG has recognized as much.
Fine, I'll be the 1% that is right.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
This thread was absolutely insane. I think RyDiggs is going to be sitting by himself in the lunch room for a while. No one's going to be around that.
I understand the frustration though. This new raid and characters had high expectations. They threw parties for it and everything. Im not saying all is lost and its a failure though. I think as a whole the game needs more/better testers. The raid and character issues should have been ironed out long before the release.
Too bad we can't get such a dedicated response from @CG_RyDiggs on issues that affect players negatively. Over abundance of challenge gear and then still getting it as a raid reward. Tenacity buff on the new raid making so much of my roster hit like a wet noodle. And so on...
How about selling characters as X and nerfing them to Z undermines the players?
How about asking for $300 and failing to deliver or maintain the investment undermines the players?
How about when the people responsible for developing a fun and exciting game that people are happy about investing in, undermine the players?
And by undermining the players you inevitably undermine the game. If when your paying customers aren't happy then it's their fault the game suffering? They hurt the game?
So your restaurant would be more successful if people stopped complaining about your underwhelming food?
No one pays money to support the game - they pay to enjoy it, get ahead, and win. SWGOH isn't a charity.
What an echo chamber. What a tantrum. Want to help the health of the game? Listen to your players and deal with the criticism like a business that actually wants to deliver a better product. The only reason anyone (or, your customers) gives this game as much leeway as it's been given is because of the license.
I’ve unfortunately stumbled upon this thread and kudos to @SoonerJBD for calling “RT” out and identifying the INSANITY that’s taken place. Being someone who has invested a good sum in this game I’m mortified at the way you’ve (RT) handled yourself in this thread and I want you to know you’ve insulted me as well. Personally speaking, your condescending and unprofessional tone has done more damage to this game than any bug or perceived quality of in game rewards. I really hope this thread gets out there because I think you’ve single handeldly unified “your” player base to do the one thing you absolutely tried to avoid.
For the vast majority of us who are working professionals - what would happen to us if we treated our customers or key stakeholders this way? I’m seriously mind-blown and I’m going to reach out to CG to let them know how I feel. I question if they are aware of what’s going on in the forums.
Believe it. You're welcome to post your thoughts and feelings, I'm all for it.
I won't abide players undermining the health or promotion of the game.
You don't like a char? Fine, let us know where it is missing expectation. Let us know your experience.
I'm all about it.
You tell players to undermine the success of this game, then this forum is not for you.
You can come correctly with constructive criticism. You cannot undermine our community or game.
I hope the difference is understood.
I'm trying to be clear, not mean. This is VERY serious, but it's for everyone.
My apologies if it is coming off insensitive, but I want to be clear
More smilies!
Well, my feelings is this is an overreaction from you. All of the points you highlighted from his post were made fun of for being hyperbole or poor grammar. Then you misrepresented everything he said even though you highlight the exact statements he made. Where did he say to stop playing the game? Where did he undermine the promotion of the game? I've personally defended the CG studio before from upset players that are waaaay more aggressive against the promotion and well being of this game and its community with absolutely no attention from the moderators. Why is this post being made an example of? This is mild frustration at best and I can't help but get the feeling that @CG_RyDiggs is being unfair.
Wow, sounds like the forum regulars are awfully sensitive. I thought his response was fine. I think you may be adding emotion to the mods posts where there isnt any....or the wrong emotion. Ive been on a million forums and this post is not at all offensive considering the actual offensive ones I have seen.
You folks needs to chill. Usually in large games such as this there are alternate private forums. Those forums are where you can post and warn folks about investing. Doing it on an official forum is asking to be banned.
NOTE: I WILL be making a thread next week on the topic of: "Why posting boycotts, refund requests, discouraging players to engage in the game is not constructive and why this policy is in the best interest of the players." for us to all talk about. I invite you all to join in.
RT
If you want to have a sincere and frank discussion about the pros and cons of monetization in a mobile game, I want to let you know I for one am all for it. I will even stipulate up front EA/Cg's need to monetize their IP for everyone to be able to enjoy this game (if there is no money, there are no servers, therefore no game at all, etc). But expect aggressive pushback vis a vis EA's idea of "necessary" monetization, and things like EA's copyrighted paper on unfair matchmaking leading to more robust monetization. I for one at least hope this game makes buckets of money for EA/CG (because that's how the game keeps going and growing) but there is a line past which you are abusing your playerbase, and EA has crowed to their investors about how happy they are to cross that line. So Caveat Emptor, because I will come prepared for such a discussion, don't start something you can't finish.
Thousands of players saying the same thing can't be wrong.
I mean please do not take it the wrong way, not attacking you or anything.
But that’s the most ridiculous statement i’ve seen in this thread.
Not only they can but they are much more often than not. Which is exactly the problem in like every single online game. If you are a gamer you’ve probably played multiple games. There is not a single popular game forum i’ve been on where you don’t see the usual « they don’t listen to us! » or « we know what is good for the game better than them!» and blablabla.
But you can’t tell the players that they are wrong or you just get the kind of threads we are on, with people calling you condescending, self-righteous or whatever. Designing and maintaining a game like this is hard, it’s a full time job for experienced and smart people. A crushing majority of the players simply have no idea how things work or why they are the way they are and only see the things in front of them, not the countless implications behind those. They think they understand but they don’t.
That leads to situations like this where it becomes hard for the team to communicate with the player base. They are basically forced to choose between pretty much dodging every subjects that would go a bit to deep, creating frustration, or give the real explanations that most people wouldn’t understand and thus most likely take the wrong way, creating frustration. Not even talking about marketing strategies and such, where their interests are obviously opposed to ours.
I believe Riggs is trying a 3rd way, and even though it appears to not be working as of right now, it should be interesting to see where it goes in the future. Even if in my opinion, trying to educate/elevate a players community is an utterly pointless and impossible thing to do.
Sion is really good in my team, basically took me from top 10 to top 3 in arena. I bought him a 4th star for 10$ and i have fun in the game. Sion is funny and well devolved character who gets stronger after a few turns combat, just like DN. Makes it hard for AI who to focus down. I can recommend other players to invest or farm in Sion.
This thread is amazing. The moderator seems like an incredibly intelligent 9 year-old, who has all the answers but literally no idea about how to engage with someone on a conversational level.
Thousands of players saying the same thing can't be wrong.
I mean please do not take it the wrong way, not attacking you or anything.
But that’s the most ridiculous statement i’ve seen in this thread.
Not only they can but they are much more often than not. Which is exactly the problem in like every single online game. If you are a gamer you’ve probably played multiple games. There is not a single popular game forum i’ve been on where you don’t see the usual « they don’t listen to us! » or « we know what is good for the game better than them!» and blablabla.
But you can’t tell the players that they are wrong or you just get the kind of threads we are on, with people calling you condescending, self-righteous or whatever. Designing and maintaining a game like this is hard, it’s a full time job for experienced and smart people. A crushing majority of the players simply have no idea how things work or why they are the way they are and only see the things in front of them, not the countless implications behind those. They think they understand but they don’t.
That leads to situations like this where it becomes hard for the team to communicate with the player base. They are basically forced to choose between pretty much dodging every subjects that would go a bit to deep, creating frustration, or give the real explanations that most people wouldn’t understand and thus most likely take the wrong way, creating frustration. Not even talking about marketing strategies and such, where their interests are obviously opposed to ours.
I believe Riggs is trying a 3rd way, and even though it appears to not be working as of right now, it should be interesting to see where it goes in the future. Even if in my opinion, trying to educate/elevate a players community is an utterly pointless and impossible thing to do.
Excellent post. It may appear to be impossible, but human kind has done the impossible before and we can do it again. I like the challenge.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
I agree with you most of the things you said in this thread.
I just want to point out that the recent changes made to the game (mainly sith raid) are not really good promotion of the game.
I dont like hyperboles either, but honestly, the developer team added little to the fun side of the game in March.
That is where the salt comes from...
From my part,
smilies for everyone,
This is a game after all
(it even rhymes)
Thousands of players saying the same thing can't be wrong.
I mean please do not take it the wrong way, not attacking you or anything.
But that’s the most ridiculous statement i’ve seen in this thread.
Not only they can but they are much more often than not. Which is exactly the problem in like every single online game. If you are a gamer you’ve probably played multiple games. There is not a single popular game forum i’ve been on where you don’t see the usual « they don’t listen to us! » or « we know what is good for the game better than them!» and blablabla.
But you can’t tell the players that they are wrong or you just get the kind of threads we are on, with people calling you condescending, self-righteous or whatever. Designing and maintaining a game like this is hard, it’s a full time job for experienced and smart people. A crushing majority of the players simply have no idea how things work or why they are the way they are and only see the things in front of them, not the countless implications behind those. They think they understand but they don’t.
That leads to situations like this where it becomes hard for the team to communicate with the player base. They are basically forced to choose between pretty much dodging every subjects that would go a bit to deep, creating frustration, or give the real explanations that most people wouldn’t understand and thus most likely take the wrong way, creating frustration. Not even talking about marketing strategies and such, where their interests are obviously opposed to ours.
I believe Riggs is trying a 3rd way, and even though it appears to not be working as of right now, it should be interesting to see where it goes in the future. Even if in my opinion, trying to educate/elevate a players community is an utterly pointless and impossible thing to do.
If over 1500+ posts in just 3 threads on this forum alone is any indication, then my statement is essentially correct. Counting the discussions on Reddit, Line, Discord or other 3rd party apps I'd say thousands would not be out of the realm of possibility.
Also, kudos for implying the vast majority of players have no idea how things work. That my friend, is the ridiculous statement.
Replies
Thank you. Edited to fix this.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/163163/forum-communication-q-a-8-30pm-pdt-3-17-18
participate.
Considering that the senior producer of the game posted in the Dev Announcements section essentially apologizing for this thread and the overall bad recent communication, I’m guessing he was told to apologize. I’m willing to take it at face value, regardless. You are entitled to your opinion, but consider that 99 percent of the player response on this thread disagrees with you, and it’s clear CG has recognized as much.
I still want my zeta.
Fine, I'll be the 1% that is right.
You'll get a zeta... and 3 Chewie shards.
Perfect! I am 97/100.
I understand the frustration though. This new raid and characters had high expectations. They threw parties for it and everything. Im not saying all is lost and its a failure though. I think as a whole the game needs more/better testers. The raid and character issues should have been ironed out long before the release.
that will be Clone Wars Chewie shards.
How about selling characters as X and nerfing them to Z undermines the players?
How about asking for $300 and failing to deliver or maintain the investment undermines the players?
How about when the people responsible for developing a fun and exciting game that people are happy about investing in, undermine the players?
And by undermining the players you inevitably undermine the game. If when your paying customers aren't happy then it's their fault the game suffering? They hurt the game?
So your restaurant would be more successful if people stopped complaining about your underwhelming food?
No one pays money to support the game - they pay to enjoy it, get ahead, and win. SWGOH isn't a charity.
What an echo chamber. What a tantrum. Want to help the health of the game? Listen to your players and deal with the criticism like a business that actually wants to deliver a better product. The only reason anyone (or, your customers) gives this game as much leeway as it's been given is because of the license.
For the vast majority of us who are working professionals - what would happen to us if we treated our customers or key stakeholders this way? I’m seriously mind-blown and I’m going to reach out to CG to let them know how I feel. I question if they are aware of what’s going on in the forums.
Wow, sounds like the forum regulars are awfully sensitive. I thought his response was fine. I think you may be adding emotion to the mods posts where there isnt any....or the wrong emotion. Ive been on a million forums and this post is not at all offensive considering the actual offensive ones I have seen.
You folks needs to chill. Usually in large games such as this there are alternate private forums. Those forums are where you can post and warn folks about investing. Doing it on an official forum is asking to be banned.
If you want to have a sincere and frank discussion about the pros and cons of monetization in a mobile game, I want to let you know I for one am all for it. I will even stipulate up front EA/Cg's need to monetize their IP for everyone to be able to enjoy this game (if there is no money, there are no servers, therefore no game at all, etc). But expect aggressive pushback vis a vis EA's idea of "necessary" monetization, and things like EA's copyrighted paper on unfair matchmaking leading to more robust monetization. I for one at least hope this game makes buckets of money for EA/CG (because that's how the game keeps going and growing) but there is a line past which you are abusing your playerbase, and EA has crowed to their investors about how happy they are to cross that line. So Caveat Emptor, because I will come prepared for such a discussion, don't start something you can't finish.
I mean please do not take it the wrong way, not attacking you or anything.
But that’s the most ridiculous statement i’ve seen in this thread.
Not only they can but they are much more often than not. Which is exactly the problem in like every single online game. If you are a gamer you’ve probably played multiple games. There is not a single popular game forum i’ve been on where you don’t see the usual « they don’t listen to us! » or « we know what is good for the game better than them!» and blablabla.
But you can’t tell the players that they are wrong or you just get the kind of threads we are on, with people calling you condescending, self-righteous or whatever. Designing and maintaining a game like this is hard, it’s a full time job for experienced and smart people. A crushing majority of the players simply have no idea how things work or why they are the way they are and only see the things in front of them, not the countless implications behind those. They think they understand but they don’t.
That leads to situations like this where it becomes hard for the team to communicate with the player base. They are basically forced to choose between pretty much dodging every subjects that would go a bit to deep, creating frustration, or give the real explanations that most people wouldn’t understand and thus most likely take the wrong way, creating frustration. Not even talking about marketing strategies and such, where their interests are obviously opposed to ours.
I believe Riggs is trying a 3rd way, and even though it appears to not be working as of right now, it should be interesting to see where it goes in the future. Even if in my opinion, trying to educate/elevate a players community is an utterly pointless and impossible thing to do.
Sion is really good in my team, basically took me from top 10 to top 3 in arena. I bought him a 4th star for 10$ and i have fun in the game. Sion is funny and well devolved character who gets stronger after a few turns combat, just like DN. Makes it hard for AI who to focus down. I can recommend other players to invest or farm in Sion.
Please, continue - I'll get some popcorn.
Excellent post. It may appear to be impossible, but human kind has done the impossible before and we can do it again. I like the challenge.
I agree with you most of the things you said in this thread.
I just want to point out that the recent changes made to the game (mainly sith raid) are not really good promotion of the game.
I dont like hyperboles either, but honestly, the developer team added little to the fun side of the game in March.
That is where the salt comes from...
From my part,
smilies for everyone,
This is a game after all
(it even rhymes)
If over 1500+ posts in just 3 threads on this forum alone is any indication, then my statement is essentially correct. Counting the discussions on Reddit, Line, Discord or other 3rd party apps I'd say thousands would not be out of the realm of possibility.
Also, kudos for implying the vast majority of players have no idea how things work. That my friend, is the ridiculous statement.