What is canon?

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  • Darthpedro wrote: »
    I care so little for post ROTJ content from Disney that as far as I'm concerned legends is still the real canon

    And yet the legends aren't canon

    Until disney does something amazing with the licence as far as I'm concerned I'm living in a pre purchase world where the legends are canon
  • Episode 1-8 movies are canon, so are the books. The Clone Wars Series and the Rebels Series are canon. Any book after Disney acquired SW are canon. The radio dramas (only created for episodes 4-6) are canon. Nothing else was EVER CANON. None of the books from the Expanded Universe were EVER canon. Disney did not CHANGE the canon, they clarified it. What is canon was always canon, Disney just officially said the books that existed when they bought SW will not be considered canon, but they never were
  • JaggedJ
    1346 posts Member
    SirAlec wrote: »
    It has left quite a few holes that I would like filled in ahaha

    But it would indicate that this game is not canon
    However I do like the game as it includes a range of characters that I like with the chance of more .

    This is a sandbox game. It features characters from a franchise. That's all.

    For canon to even be relevant this game would need something that resembles a storyline.
  • In terms of the books, I think Tarkin was the first book considered 'disney canon' (going off the top of my head). Any book after that is considered disney canon.
  • Mischen1 wrote: »
    Episode 1-8 movies are canon, so are the books. The Clone Wars Series and the Rebels Series are canon. Any book after Disney acquired SW are canon. The radio dramas (only created for episodes 4-6) are canon. Nothing else was EVER CANON. None of the books from the Expanded Universe were EVER canon. Disney did not CHANGE the canon, they clarified it. What is canon was always canon, Disney just officially said the books that existed when they bought SW will not be considered canon, but they never were

    This is not entirely true. Under the old system there were different levels of canon. I won't go fully into it but basically the EU was considered canon in instances except where it contradicted the films/tv. There was even a team at lucasfilm who was dedicated to maintaining the EU continuity. When they decided to kill off a major character at the beginning of the New Jedi order series they had to get authorization from George Lucas and he had final say alot of things that they did.
  • Kronen
    286 posts Member
    All books and comics pre-Disney are now considered legends. All films and TV shows (inculding cartoons) and books\comics post Disney are cannon. Kotor and the mmo based on it are cannon. The old ewoks\droids cartoon I think was excluded from cannon even prior to Disney. This game is not really cannon as there is no backstory, it's more like a official game that uses cannon characters.
  • RekiemD
    133 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    SirAlec wrote: »
    Please don’t just look at the title.

    So last I heard Disney states everything but films were canon...
    Could someone please confirm this.

    And does that make this game legends over canon or is this game a stand alone or even canon.

    This is leading up to something

    Old news. Everything made before Disney acquisition was declared not canon, but the movies and clone wars. Since then, a lot of books, comics, video games and tv shows (rebels) have been released and gained the "Canon" status. A lot of legends stuff is being canonized again. Disney just wanted to make some order and make profit from old and new stuff, related to Star Wars. Very smart move.
  • This link here should clarify. Basically on April 25th, 2014, Disney declared that only the 6 original saga movies, the 2008 cartoon The Clone Wars, and the comic Darth Maul - Son of Dathomir were the official version of event, aka canon. After that, nearly everything published, with the exception of some things listed in the link as well as mobile games like this one that have no story, is canon.
  • Zevox
    172 posts Member
    Kronen wrote: »
    Kotor and the mmo based on it are cannon.
    That is incorrect. Like almost everything else pre-Disney, KotOR and TOR are no longer part of the official canon.
  • JurassicKing
    55 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    This game is non-canon, not even in the sense of legends. In this game you can have Grand Admiral Thrawn fight Darth Sion, who died thousands of years before Thrawn was even born. You can also have Darth Sideos and Mace Windu fight together, which would make no sense.

    Anyways, they're all figures on a table even in the game, so it's not like any events are being shaped.
  • DapperChewie
    84 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    This game is non-canon, not even in the sense of legends. In this game you can have Grand Admiral Thrawn fight Darth Sion, who died thousands of years before Thrawn was even born. You can also have Darth Sideos and Mace Windu fight together, which would make no sense.

    Anyways, they're all figures on a table even in the game, so it's not like any events are being shaped.

    Yep. The game is a holotable simulation, featuring legendary characters from the star wars universe. That is why they are able to bring in characters from Legends stuff - their existence in GoH doesn't confirm their existence in Star Wars cannon. It would be like saying Mario was a real person because we have games with him in them. Just because someone is in this game doesn't mean they really existed in the Star Wars universe.
  • Darthpedro, wanting continuity and being canon are totally different things. George Lucas gave people permission to write stories about older Luke, Han, Leia, etc., but those books were never canon. GL said so quite clearly when the first books came out. He always had reserved the right to make more movies and disregard the books. He didn't do so, but he clearly said so
  • LaksonVell
    421 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Zevox wrote: »
    Kronen wrote: »
    Kotor and the mmo based on it are cannon.
    That is incorrect. Like almost everything else pre-Disney, KotOR and TOR are no longer part of the official canon.

    A legal issue, but to cut it short, for the purposes of this game, TOR is canon.
  • So bottom line would be that Disney have the right to accept anything they want and if later they decide to accept KOTOR as cannon to enrich their story line and fill holes that have been left open in the current Disney universe or fill them as they see fit... or even fill them at all.
  • EdSolo
    150 posts Member
    Darthpedro wrote: »
    Mischen1 wrote: »
    Episode 1-8 movies are canon, so are the books. The Clone Wars Series and the Rebels Series are canon. Any book after Disney acquired SW are canon. The radio dramas (only created for episodes 4-6) are canon. Nothing else was EVER CANON. None of the books from the Expanded Universe were EVER canon. Disney did not CHANGE the canon, they clarified it. What is canon was always canon, Disney just officially said the books that existed when they bought SW will not be considered canon, but they never were

    This is not entirely true. Under the old system there were different levels of canon. I won't go fully into it but basically the EU was considered canon in instances except where it contradicted the films/tv. There was even a team at lucasfilm who was dedicated to maintaining the EU continuity. When they decided to kill off a major character at the beginning of the New Jedi order series they had to get authorization from George Lucas and he had final say alot of things that they did.

    This isn't exactly correct either. Lucas was largely not involved in Star Wars publishing. It was always stated that the authors could do what they wanted, but that Lucas could overwrite it at any time. In the early era, the Clone Wars were a forbidden topic since Lucas stated he may revisit it some day. I don't think there is any definitive proof that Lucas signed off on Chewie's death. Lucas did mandate the killing of Anakin Solo since he believed fans would get too confused with Anakin Solo in the books and Anakin Skywalker in what were the upcoming prequel films.

    As for levels of canon, yes Leland Chee was a Lucasfilm employee who maintained a database to attempt to fit everything together as some sort of overall canon. However, nothing in the books were ever on the same level as the films or the Lucasfilm tv series. As far as Lucas was concerned, the only things that were canon were the six films and the Clone Wars tv series (but not the Tartkovski one). Any novel, comic, video game, etc. could be overwritten at any time. This happened quite a bit with the Clone Wars series.

    Once Disney made the purchase, all old material was moved to Legends. The Darth Maul Son of Dathomir comics holds the distinction of being both a Legends as well as canon story. Disney stated the six films and the six seasons of Clone Wars as well as the unreleased episodes of Clone Wars that were partially finished were canon. All novels, comics, video games, tv series, etc. going forward would also be canon. However, there are exceptions. The Freemaker Adventures isn't canon for obvious reasons in the storylines. Games like this one, aren't canon either since there is no story line and it is contradictory, meaning, a fight between Darth Sion and Darth Vader would never occur in the Star Wars universe. The KOTOR and TOR video games are not canon either. While the Old Republic is still on going, it is really the only new Legends content being produced. Similarly, if a Legends character is brought into canon, that does not mean all his old appearances are now canon. Thrawn is an example. He was made canon in Rebels, but the old Zahn novels like Heir to the Empire are still Legends.
  • So @EdSolo if Disney were to bring for example the sith triuphant into Star Wars episode 9 following on from the last Jedi it would make their cannon appearance in this era and not the EU

    Before anyone goes nuts yes I did re read and the fallout Disney would get unless they backed themselves up with an immense story of this happening would result in a lot of fans going to another franchise.

    But again I would like to contradict some of what you said with holocrons, there were some training holicrons that true are only seen in legend but role with me here allowed people to train with Old masters and where people had to fight shadows of the past...

    However it is a sandbox kinda game allowing us to make teams of our favourite Star Wars characters
  • This game is non-canon, not even in the sense of legends. In this game you can have Grand Admiral Thrawn fight Darth Sion, who died thousands of years before Thrawn was even born. You can also have Darth Sideos and Mace Windu fight together, which would make no sense.

    Anyways, they're all figures on a table even in the game, so it's not like any events are being shaped.

    Yep. The game is a holotable simulation, featuring legendary characters from the star wars universe. That is why they are able to bring in characters from Legends stuff - their existence in GoH doesn't confirm their existence in Star Wars cannon. It would be like saying Mario was a real person because we have games with him in them. Just because someone is in this game doesn't mean they really existed in the Star Wars universe.

    Wait what? Mario isn't a real person? So who was that bloke wearing plumbers overalls running at me on the street throwing fireballs at me shouting yahoooo?
  • I've seen many fake claims on these forums but this topic is really taking 1st place.
    To put it simply: Canon is truth. It represents past/present/future events that are considered true. Just for reference, not starting a holy war here, bible is the best explanation of canon in real life.
    So, who decides what is real in a fictional universe? In theory, the rightsholder, Didney worl, does. In reality, those rights have changed hands, and that is where it gets a bit messy. Lucasarts sold the rights to Bioware, so TOR was created. After Disney bought the franchise from Lucasarts, they are legally not allowed to cut TOR off. Because the law states the production rights cannot be revoked as long as the project is in active development. And that creates 2 points of view. In legal terms, everything that comes out of TOR is canon, because they tied themselves in the storyline during Lucasarts era. That is how KOTOR was also confirmed to be canon. In reality, Disney can just say "no this is not canon, it is my story and I decide who is player one" with a malicious 15 year old grin and it would be true on all accounts.
    Diving further into the discussion, anything can be canon provided it follows one simple rule: no events claimed to be canon can negate other events that already are canon. So you cannot have Vader and Anakin dance-off. You could make Vader fight an Anakin holocron, so there are loopholes that make pretty much anything possible, but you get the idea.
    So, is this game canon? No, but not because of the reasons stated above. Once again, Canon is truth. This game brings nothing new to the storyline, so there is nothing canonical to add. It is a sandbox game that simply uses canon-related material for the games. The only reason the word canon is used for this game is that CG are obligated to use canon material for the game unless Disney says otherwise. And back to legal terms, I already explained above why CG can use Nihilus, Traya, HK and so forth even with Disney making them non-canon.
    Hope this clears any confusion.
  • @LaksonVell You have answered what I was trying to ask I know it wasn’t worded correctly but my main aim was to understand the cross over or TOR and tv and film based lore .

    I am glad that the game is set up like it is because although some are hard to get it allows me to create my favourite lore based teams that were in the same era and see how they work against what is another era.


    I hope everyone is well and is enjoying the game
  • @SirAlec glad to be of assistance. Enjoy yourself!
  • SirAlec wrote: »
    Darth bane is Canon.

    His rule of 2 was broken constantly in the films and tv series, what are the chances of more sith showing up I New films and as toons for the game that would be quite nice addition

    They're Sith... Of course they break the rules. They are like pirates... They are not rules... More like guidelines...
  • Basically all the actual interesting stories and good characters are not canon.
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