Sith raid - fatigue

Replies

  • Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

  • CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".
  • CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    That is how you seem to be interpreting it.
    But most are complaining about the mechanics of the raid. Many even say it could still be as hard, just make the mechanics more interesting.
    So no, it's not about it being hard, please stop twisting what's being said and missrepresenting it.
    And no, developerst don't create content to be annoying. You really think that?
    It's not unusual for people to complained about a raid being boring in a game because of the mechanics. Many mmo's have gone though the same kind of complaints.
    And someone always twists the arguments like you do. Completely ignoring that the same people didn't compain when other previous hard content was released.
    It was hard, but fun. And people thought is was ok.

    For some people hard=boring yes, but not for all people. MANY people like a challenge.
    Fun and hard are not mutually exclusive.
    Your just lumping every person that is negative to the raid into the same group of people who don't like a challenge, judging them not by what they say but what you think they mean.
    Then you argue against that possition and not the arguments they are making.
    That is a strawmen argument and it's a logical fallacy.

    So no, I don't need to read again. But it would be nice if you stopped missrepresenting the arguments being made by inserting your own interpretation of them.



  • You also seem to think "timeconsuming"=hard.
    I happen to not think this is a hard raid. It's just boring as hell.
  • The mechanics nulify pretty much everything, and there's a clear pattern(in my guild)... we are running a tier 4, I have 30+mil score, the next 2 members are mid 20mil.. after that it's like the scores fell off a cliff. We're sitting at max tickets again so when we do finish it.. immediately start a new one? The lower tiers even though they are lower have crap rewards.. 800 guild currency is about the only positive. Haha
  • CT11190 wrote: »
    You also seem to think "timeconsuming"=hard.
    I happen to not think this is a hard raid. It's just boring as hell.

    Smh, enjoy laddie, enjoy
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

  • No_Try wrote: »
    CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    So are you implying that STR should be the same health as tank? Or are you missing how Haat was a couple magnitudes higher and harder then rancor, and now STR is a couple magnitudes harder then Haat , You do see how that works right? Haat was and is harder then rancor, STR was and is harder then Haat , that is the point.
  • No_Try wrote: »
    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    Tank raid has two difficulties: normal and heroic. At the time of the nerf (weeks after launch) there were guilds who were 5% into p1, having launched on opening night. There was no lesser option for them. For this raid, there are seven tiers of difficulty to choose from, so lower powered guilds can take on a lesser tier.

  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    double

    Post edited by No_Try on
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    No_Try wrote: »
    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    Tank raid has two difficulties: normal and heroic. At the time of the nerf (weeks after launch) there were guilds who were 5% into p1, having launched on opening night. There was no lesser option for them. For this raid, there are seven tiers of difficulty to choose from, so lower powered guilds can take on a lesser tier.
    No_Try wrote: »
    CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    So are you implying that STR should be the same health as tank? Or are you missing how Haat was a couple magnitudes higher and harder then rancor, and now STR is a couple magnitudes harder then Haat , You do see how that works right? Haat was and is harder then rancor, STR was and is harder then Haat , that is the point.

    No, I'm implying T6STR should have comparable health to HSTR which would still make it magnitudes harder than AAT. (i.e. check naat vs. haat)

    Edit: This is the 2nd day of the raid on tier 6. It's like this on every guild I'm talking to.

    XBlgFV2.png

  • No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    Tank raid has two difficulties: normal and heroic. At the time of the nerf (weeks after launch) there were guilds who were 5% into p1, having launched on opening night. There was no lesser option for them. For this raid, there are seven tiers of difficulty to choose from, so lower powered guilds can take on a lesser tier.
    No_Try wrote: »
    CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    So are you implying that STR should be the same health as tank? Or are you missing how Haat was a couple magnitudes higher and harder then rancor, and now STR is a couple magnitudes harder then Haat , You do see how that works right? Haat was and is harder then rancor, STR was and is harder then Haat , that is the point.

    No, I'm implying T6STR should have comparable health to HSTR which would still make it magnitudes harder than AAT.

    Nope, heroic tiers always have less health then t6, that applies to both rancor and tank, making heroic have less health is the nod towards the difficulty increase of heroic
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    Tank raid has two difficulties: normal and heroic. At the time of the nerf (weeks after launch) there were guilds who were 5% into p1, having launched on opening night. There was no lesser option for them. For this raid, there are seven tiers of difficulty to choose from, so lower powered guilds can take on a lesser tier.
    No_Try wrote: »
    CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    So are you implying that STR should be the same health as tank? Or are you missing how Haat was a couple magnitudes higher and harder then rancor, and now STR is a couple magnitudes harder then Haat , You do see how that works right? Haat was and is harder then rancor, STR was and is harder then Haat , that is the point.

    No, I'm implying T6STR should have comparable health to HSTR which would still make it magnitudes harder than AAT.

    Nope, heroic tiers always have less health then t6, that applies to both rancor and tank, making heroic have less health is the nod towards the difficulty increase of heroic

    Let's bring sense of magnitude into this equation.

    NORMAL, Post-NERF (Tier 6):
    Phase I - 15,600,000
    Phase II - 22,700,000
    Phase III - 12,250,000
    Phase IV - 13,550,000

    NORMAL, Pre-NERF (Tier 6):
    Phase I - 33,000,000
    Phase II - 76,500,000
    Phase III - 50,710,000
    Phase IV - ~48,000,000

    Heroic (Tier 7):
    Phase I - 4,300,000
    Phase II - 19,200,000
    Phase III - 12,000,000
    Phase IV - 12,000,000

    NAAT: 63.9M
    HAAT: 47.5M

    Ratio: 1.34
    Tier 6:

    Phase 1: 152,163,346
    Phase 2: 158,768,724
    Phase 3: 152,017,155
    Phase 4: <no data>


    Tier 7:

    Phase 1: 46,888,776
    Phase 2: 52,105,858
    Phase 3: 38,371,455
    Phase 4: 33,499,444

    Since there is no data for t6 p4, I'll exclude it, but there's no reason to think it will have a different ratio.

    T6 STR: 462.98M (3 phases only)
    HSTR: 133.364M

    Ratio: 3.47

    The disrepancy is obvious...All tiers of STR excluding HSTR has way too much health on them to justify the rewards. And playerbase is responding to that by....not playing it.
  • TVF
    24284 posts Member
    I hope everyone in my two arena shards doesn't play it.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    I hope everyone in my two arena shards doesn't play it.

    There will be buggers like me in their guilds that just plays the raid regardless, they'll just register 0 to get them rewards.

  • TVF
    24284 posts Member
    You sound like a great guildmate.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • kalidor
    1892 posts Member
    So, those of you that are in guilds that have Rancor and AAT on farm - you don't find those boring as heck too? I certainly do. The big difference is that the rewards are worth the chore of auto'ing it for 10mins. Where the Sith raid fails is that you can't really auto it unless you have JTR, and even that is only 1 of your 5 squads (or 1 of many for Heroic).
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    Tank raid has two difficulties: normal and heroic. At the time of the nerf (weeks after launch) there were guilds who were 5% into p1, having launched on opening night. There was no lesser option for them. For this raid, there are seven tiers of difficulty to choose from, so lower powered guilds can take on a lesser tier.
    No_Try wrote: »
    CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    So are you implying that STR should be the same health as tank? Or are you missing how Haat was a couple magnitudes higher and harder then rancor, and now STR is a couple magnitudes harder then Haat , You do see how that works right? Haat was and is harder then rancor, STR was and is harder then Haat , that is the point.

    No, I'm implying T6STR should have comparable health to HSTR which would still make it magnitudes harder than AAT.

    Nope, heroic tiers always have less health then t6, that applies to both rancor and tank, making heroic have less health is the nod towards the difficulty increase of heroic

    Let's bring sense of magnitude into this equation.

    NORMAL, Post-NERF (Tier 6):
    Phase I - 15,600,000
    Phase II - 22,700,000
    Phase III - 12,250,000
    Phase IV - 13,550,000

    NORMAL, Pre-NERF (Tier 6):
    Phase I - 33,000,000
    Phase II - 76,500,000
    Phase III - 50,710,000
    Phase IV - ~48,000,000

    Heroic (Tier 7):
    Phase I - 4,300,000
    Phase II - 19,200,000
    Phase III - 12,000,000
    Phase IV - 12,000,000

    NAAT: 63.9M
    HAAT: 47.5M

    Ratio: 1.34
    Tier 6:

    Phase 1: 152,163,346
    Phase 2: 158,768,724
    Phase 3: 152,017,155
    Phase 4: <no data>


    Tier 7:

    Phase 1: 46,888,776
    Phase 2: 52,105,858
    Phase 3: 38,371,455
    Phase 4: 33,499,444

    Since there is no data for t6 p4, I'll exclude it, but there's no reason to think it will have a different ratio.

    T6 STR: 462.98M (3 phases only)
    HSTR: 133.364M

    Ratio: 3.47

    The disrepancy is obvious...All tiers of STR excluding HSTR has way too much health on them to justify the rewards. And playerbase is responding to that by....not playing it.

    Ok, this is reinforcing that STR is several magnitudes harder/higher, thanks lol

    Now look at rancor, t6 is around 33-36 mil , heroic is 10.3 mil, 3.xx times more. Health. But the raid is several times easier.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    You sound like a great guildmate.

    I enjoy the raid itself, actually I like it very much...except the health pool problem I pointed out. Maybe add to that NH protection mechanics being overtuned.
  • CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    The problem with this thinking is... no matter how hard you try and justify that this raid is good or appropriately difficult for each tier, the fact is people aren't playing it or just quitting at almost every level of the game due to the sheer boredom and monotony of it and the crappy rewards.. and as already stated by people, increasing the rewards likely will not solve the problem.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    Tank raid has two difficulties: normal and heroic. At the time of the nerf (weeks after launch) there were guilds who were 5% into p1, having launched on opening night. There was no lesser option for them. For this raid, there are seven tiers of difficulty to choose from, so lower powered guilds can take on a lesser tier.
    No_Try wrote: »
    CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    So are you implying that STR should be the same health as tank? Or are you missing how Haat was a couple magnitudes higher and harder then rancor, and now STR is a couple magnitudes harder then Haat , You do see how that works right? Haat was and is harder then rancor, STR was and is harder then Haat , that is the point.

    No, I'm implying T6STR should have comparable health to HSTR which would still make it magnitudes harder than AAT.

    Nope, heroic tiers always have less health then t6, that applies to both rancor and tank, making heroic have less health is the nod towards the difficulty increase of heroic

    Let's bring sense of magnitude into this equation.

    NORMAL, Post-NERF (Tier 6):
    Phase I - 15,600,000
    Phase II - 22,700,000
    Phase III - 12,250,000
    Phase IV - 13,550,000

    NORMAL, Pre-NERF (Tier 6):
    Phase I - 33,000,000
    Phase II - 76,500,000
    Phase III - 50,710,000
    Phase IV - ~48,000,000

    Heroic (Tier 7):
    Phase I - 4,300,000
    Phase II - 19,200,000
    Phase III - 12,000,000
    Phase IV - 12,000,000

    NAAT: 63.9M
    HAAT: 47.5M

    Ratio: 1.34
    Tier 6:

    Phase 1: 152,163,346
    Phase 2: 158,768,724
    Phase 3: 152,017,155
    Phase 4: <no data>


    Tier 7:

    Phase 1: 46,888,776
    Phase 2: 52,105,858
    Phase 3: 38,371,455
    Phase 4: 33,499,444

    Since there is no data for t6 p4, I'll exclude it, but there's no reason to think it will have a different ratio.

    T6 STR: 462.98M (3 phases only)
    HSTR: 133.364M

    Ratio: 3.47

    The disrepancy is obvious...All tiers of STR excluding HSTR has way too much health on them to justify the rewards. And playerbase is responding to that by....not playing it.

    Ok, this is reinforcing that STR is several magnitudes harder/higher, thanks lol

    Now look at rancor, t6 is around 33-36 mil , heroic is 10.3 mil, 3.xx times more. Health. But the raid is several times easier.

    You're delineating from my point. What justifies the disrepancy of T6 of both raids vs. their heroic?

  • CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    The problem with this thinking is... no matter how hard you try and justify that this raid is good or appropriately difficult for each tier, the fact is people aren't playing it or just quitting at almost every level of the game due to the sheer boredom and monotony of it and the **** rewards.. and as already stated by people, increasing the rewards likely will not solve the problem.

    The problem is sweeping assertations like yours that presume to know what the majority are doing . None of us know exactly what or who is playing and quitting outside of the few players we interact with .

    They are increasing rewards, nice, let's see what they do.

    They are looking at data regarding the raid, that they have access to, none of us do. The Devs so far have stated they are happy with what they are seeing. And frankly, a few people unhappy cuz it's boring, or monotonous , lol same arguments and crying from when Tank launched, the issue there was only two tiers, and yes they over corrected naat about three months after it debuted. However, what they did here was go rancor style with seven tiers, which allows you to play at a level you are comfortable with, and easily able to beat the raid. Nowhere does it say you must run t6, or 5 or whatever , if it is annoying, frustrating, boring. Monotonous , etc etc etc blah blah, . . Then run a lower tier , build up, and advance. Learn new squads. Whatever, see how the BH rework plays out. .. There are options here that did not exist with Tank. There is literally reason to bash on a tier that is to advanced for your guild at this time, I mean, I'm sure we could speculate various reasons why, but there is literally no real reason at all to take on more then you can handle, and then cry about it when there are other options.
  • TVF
    24284 posts Member
    Nah, everyone is quitting and the game will die. Come on man.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Nah, everyone is quitting and the game will die. Come on man.

    Sorry, I forgot
  • Gifafi
    4716 posts Member
    I remember my first raid
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Personally I just think that Nihilus and Traya are bad bosses.

    Nihilus is bad because his constant buff stealing makes you feel bad for getting any sort of buffs on your team. His constant health damage forces you to use a healer or something that does that job. His constant protection stealing makes it feel actively detrimental for some of your characters to attack him, which is especially bad when you've got no choice. His cooldown increases slow down teams, making them less fun to play and reducing synergy. And his Annihilate is inconsistent and, at times, impossible to predict.

    Traya is bad because of Isolate. Only that. Everything else she does really doesn't matter. It's occasionally annoying, but altogether fine. Isolate ruins everything by making every team feel awful to play. There's not even any counter to it in P3. You just have to live with one of your characters practically not existing for a while.

    Sion, on the other hand, is a fantastic boss. The constantly increasing offence on each side makes it a really tense game of trying to figure out how much damage you can squeeze out without getting someone obliterated because you didn't cleanse in time.
  • CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    The problem with this thinking is... no matter how hard you try and justify that this raid is good or appropriately difficult for each tier, the fact is people aren't playing it or just quitting at almost every level of the game due to the sheer boredom and monotony of it and the **** rewards.. and as already stated by people, increasing the rewards likely will not solve the problem.

    The problem is sweeping assertations like yours that presume to know what the majority are doing . None of us know exactly what or who is playing and quitting outside of the few players we interact with .

    They are increasing rewards, nice, let's see what they do.

    They are looking at data regarding the raid, that they have access to, none of us do. The Devs so far have stated they are happy with what they are seeing. And frankly, a few people unhappy cuz it's boring, or monotonous , lol same arguments and crying from when Tank launched, the issue there was only two tiers, and yes they over corrected naat about three months after it debuted. However, what they did here was go rancor style with seven tiers, which allows you to play at a level you are comfortable with, and easily able to beat the raid. Nowhere does it say you must run t6, or 5 or whatever , if it is annoying, frustrating, boring. Monotonous , etc etc etc blah blah, . . Then run a lower tier , build up, and advance. Learn new squads. Whatever, see how the BH rework plays out. .. There are options here that did not exist with Tank. There is literally reason to bash on a tier that is to advanced for your guild at this time, I mean, I'm sure we could speculate various reasons why, but there is literally no real reason at all to take on more then you can handle, and then cry about it when there are other options.

    Lile I said in my initial post our guild can finish t6 before we refill tickets. I personally finish top 15. It has nothing to do with the difficulty there. It's simply doing the same fights day in and day out that are not enjoyable.
    The majority of people posting here agree. Maybe you're doing t7, and its much better , and maybe when we get to t7 we will also be much happier with it.. however I am watching players leave and the reason is this raid. If you take the sample of people agreeing here vs disagreeing (and typically a post like this will have way more people chiming in to bash it) then it appears the community does not enjoy this raid.
  • Jedi_of_Oz
    547 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    TVF wrote: »
    I hope everyone in my two arena shards doesn't play it.

    Stop bragging.

    I'd hazard a guess that maybe only 1-2% of guilds are completing Heroic. For those that aren't, the experience is like pulling nails.

    While my guild can knock over Heroic in 12-18 hours, T6 was taking a solid 2-3 refreshes - mainly because of the ridiculous limit of only being limited to 5 squads per day. Before we started Heroics, there was increasing disengagment with each T6 attempted. It was such a slog that more and more CBF - and we're a 150m+ GP guild. It must be excruciating for lesser equiped guilds.

    At the very least, they should remove the limit of 5 squads per day for T6 and below. P1 and P3 have one specialist team that can make significant progress through the phase. Others squads are midling at best in those phases. P2 perhaps 4-5 squads, with P4 being situational depending on which boss is being targeted. A limit of 5 squads per day just prolongs the agony for most guilds.




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