Update to Raid Reward Changes - 4/11/18

Replies

  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    @CG_Carrie
    I'm trying to understand what the May rewards are going to look like. So, are we going to be getting the current rewards plus fully crafted of the new gear types for the right side gearing up to 13? Still getting hard to obtain gear 12 salvage pieces for the left side gearing up to 13?

    I can kinda picture what the improvement is trying to do... I think. Can you provide a screenshot of what the May rewards will look like? I think that would help ease the tension of uncertainty. Clearly the change to the new system of rewards without the new gear included was no ideal, which is why we are up in arms.

    If I'm reading what they've said correctly, they are adding 2 spots to G12..... right now, a character can have 3 pieces of G12... I think after the "May" (I like to think of it as August) update, we will be able to fill 5 pieces of G12....

    I could be completely wrong, but that's how I read it.

    No I think you're right....assuming you're doing hSTR of course. Everyone else has no way to access these new pieces.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • I still can not get over the fact that they are trying to sell this as an improvement!
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
  • JacenRoe wrote: »
    CG_Carrie wrote: »
    When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.

    You are taking absolutely the wrong lesson. If you don't hear anything else then hear this. Increased communication had NOTHING to do with this problem. That had absolutely ZERO to do with player disappointment. Drastically slashing rewards led to disappointment. That would have been true with no communication at all. Telling us it was an improvement right before a huge nerf turned it into a disaster. You did NOT, "share your intent." You said something untrue, and players find that insulting. And now you are trying to play it off as an accident, or an unavoidable consequence of communication.

    I actually agree that rewards before were probably a bit high as far as g12 pieces. (You rolled it back a bit too far though). And there were several positive changes included with the nerf. And I'm sympathetic to being in your situation. If you messed up, and have to disappoint everyone then it's not going to be fun. JUST. DON'T. LIE.

    ^another great way to put it. Though I avoid using the word "lie" because I think the aversion to truth from CG is out of experience and caution, not to deliberately mislead. The result and the perception are the same though, whether the failure to clearly communicate was deliberate or overly cautious.

    Explain this quote from the Sith Raid reward post as not being an outright and deliberate lie.
    "Given the difficulty of the raid, we will be increasing the rewards a bit."
  • The Heroic rewards are still soo much better.than T6 rewards. The truth is heroic rewards were way too high before this update and now it is still very good! The main problem is T5 and T6 rewards, whixh were extremely poor before this update and now its even worse, while its a much more demanding raid for the player base who can only hit that then the heroic for Heroic ready guilds... so they should upgrade the T5 and T6 drops to much better and not waste time on this heroic whining...
  • JacenRoe wrote: »
    CG_Carrie wrote: »
    When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.

    You are taking absolutely the wrong lesson. If you don't hear anything else then hear this. Increased communication had NOTHING to do with this problem. That had absolutely ZERO to do with player disappointment. Drastically slashing rewards led to disappointment. That would have been true with no communication at all. Telling us it was an improvement right before a huge nerf turned it into a disaster. You did NOT, "share your intent." You said something untrue, and players find that insulting. And now you are trying to play it off as an accident, or an unavoidable consequence of communication.

    I actually agree that rewards before were probably a bit high as far as g12 pieces. (You rolled it back a bit too far though). And there were several positive changes included with the nerf. And I'm sympathetic to being in your situation. If you messed up, and have to disappoint everyone then it's not going to be fun. JUST. DON'T. LIE.

    ^another great way to put it. Though I avoid using the word "lie" because I think the aversion to truth from CG is out of experience and caution, not to deliberately mislead. The result and the perception are the same though, whether the failure to clearly communicate was deliberate or overly cautious.

    Explain this quote from the Sith Raid reward post as not being an outright and deliberate lie.
    "Given the difficulty of the raid, we will be increasing the rewards a bit."

    Got me there. Trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and it's hard to do so. They assume we can read their minds and can interpret their doublespeak successfully. Nobody can.
  • Viserys
    461 posts Member
    Explain this quote from the Sith Raid reward post as not being an outright and deliberate lie.
    "Given the difficulty of the raid, we will be increasing the rewards a bit."

    It's because their designers just don't see this the same way we do.

    We are looking at our individual or small group experiences.

    They are looking at numerical predictions over months and over the whole playerbase. So they adjust the settings over the entire rank spectrum, and then they say with confidence "Over the next six months, the entirety of the playerbase gets more rewards than before."

    The result is that they make judgment calls that project the numbers they'd like to see over that span of time, but the result to the individual player experience is that we get badly disappointed. Even if we do sometimes get positive events (a great, critical full piece) we much more often get disappoint results (Yay 8 salvage?)

    The challenge is that their designers need to come up with a way to adjust the long term numbers to fit their intent over the span of months/years but still make the individual reward events feel gratifying.

    I liken it to this:

    "I know on our buffet before we had some really good cake, but we have decided to replace that really good cake with three stale cakes so that on the whole, each diner gets more cake on average. The result is an improvement in cake."

  • Wrote an email to my senator and congressman today:
    First, explaining how EA/CG uses addiction psychology to drive spending on the game.
    Second, explaining the bait and switch of creating incredible rewards for an event then removing them AFTER people have spent real money to be able to attain them.
    Third, providing screenshots of the language used by the developers versus the actual actions and reactions from the community.

    I want to ensure I’m not violating any TOS here, so I’m NOT calling for any ban, spending freeze, or boycott.
    I WILL say that it is everyone’s right to express their opinion to their elected officials if they believe a company is acting in a predatory manner.

    Not sure if it will accomplish anything, but if enough people provide respectful, accurate feedback, we may see action.

    Find your representative’s information here:
    https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative

    And your senator here:
    https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
  • JacenRoe wrote: »
    CG_Carrie wrote: »
    When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.

    You are taking absolutely the wrong lesson. If you don't hear anything else then hear this. Increased communication had NOTHING to do with this problem. That had absolutely ZERO to do with player disappointment. Drastically slashing rewards led to disappointment. That would have been true with no communication at all. Telling us it was an improvement right before a huge nerf turned it into a disaster. You did NOT, "share your intent." You said something untrue, and players find that insulting. And now you are trying to play it off as an accident, or an unavoidable consequence of communication.

    I actually agree that rewards before were probably a bit high as far as g12 pieces. (You rolled it back a bit too far though). And there were several positive changes included with the nerf. And I'm sympathetic to being in your situation. If you messed up, and have to disappoint everyone then it's not going to be fun. JUST. DON'T. LIE.

    ^another great way to put it. Though I avoid using the word "lie" because I think the aversion to truth from CG is out of experience and caution, not to deliberately mislead. The result and the perception are the same though, whether the failure to clearly communicate was deliberate or overly cautious.

    Explain this quote from the Sith Raid reward post as not being an outright and deliberate lie.
    "Given the difficulty of the raid, we will be increasing the rewards a bit."

    Got me there. Trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and it's hard to do so. They assume we can read their minds and can interpret their doublespeak successfully. Nobody can.

    Stop trying @Goosey_Majumbo . It's all for your honor but it's a lost cause.
    They are nothing less nothing more than greedy liars using a very deceptive management.

  • QJinX
    219 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    CG_Carrie wrote: »
    Hey all, I'm not going to be able to reply to each of you individually, but I will read through all the comments and am listening to what's being said. When we said we wanted to communicate more, we knew there could be times like these where - if we had never shared our intent in the first place, then maybe this would feel like less of a let down.

    I ask that with the changes in effect (and we gave ourselves two weeks to make sure we can do the work, test it, get it in the build and roll it out to you - but it could be less) see how it feels then, if you're so inclined.

    We will continue to monitor both the data and the sentiment and will keep you update on the changes we are making and why we are making them.

    @CG_Carrie I guess this is what I dont understand. People hate this raid. They were beyond excited before its release and now it is the single biggest pain point in the game by far. You are hard pressed to find any positive feedback what so ever. It is only being completed because of Treya, now that is true more than ever.

    Why oh why are you subjecting your customers to this, and why are you sticking by it? Tone it down to mid range guilds, balance the rewards and 99% of the player base is happy. Maybe some in the game asked for this type of content. I submit that people eat Tide pods and post it online. They do not always know what is best for them. Its horrendous. Not just the rewards, but the entire experience. What CG is doing makes no sense. There were rides at Disneyland that werent fun. They leveled them and put up cool star wars stuff there. Lets follow their example, dismantle the terrible, terrible, terrible ride.
  • DonBongo92 wrote: »
    The Heroic rewards are still soo much better.than T6 rewards. The truth is heroic rewards were way too high before this update and now it is still very good! The main problem is T5 and T6 rewards, whixh were extremely poor before this update and now its even worse, while its a much more demanding raid for the player base who can only hit that then the heroic for Heroic ready guilds... so they should upgrade the T5 and T6 drops to much better and not waste time on this heroic whining...

    Fully agree here that the t6 rewards are poor. Idk about t5 since I never did it. My guild was very disappointed with t6 rewards for the effort and time it takes, so we pushed all our focus into heroic. The updated heroic rewards feel like they should be the minimum floor for t5 or 6. We all spend time and effort in the game and expect reasonable returns for that effort regardless of the tier. It should be rewarding at all levels. Removing challenge gear was a positive step but they went too far in the opposite direction.
  • @obikenobi1 I get your point of view and counter with a little example.

    I show up for work everyday and my boss says “I’ll pay you $5 for your work today, but tomorrow I’m gonna change your pay and I(key word) feel you will be HAPPY(another key word) with your new pay for the same work. Now I come to work the next day and get paid $4.

    If that makes you happy PLEASE come work for me!
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    TBH, these rewards Should be nerfed. By as much as they are doing? Idk, I’m not going to go and analyze it for them. But definitely not this much now that they’ve already given such great rewards.

    @CG_Carrie Please get these things done right the first time, or at least not so drastically wrong. Carry on with the nerf,or some lesser version than you originally wanted (IMO, based on the upset) it makes sense not to create such a gap between players..
  • DonBongo92 wrote: »
    The Heroic rewards are still soo much better.than T6 rewards. The truth is heroic rewards were way too high before this update and now it is still very good! The main problem is T5 and T6 rewards, whixh were extremely poor before this update and now its even worse, while its a much more demanding raid for the player base who can only hit that then the heroic for Heroic ready guilds... so they should upgrade the T5 and T6 drops to much better and not waste time on this heroic whining...

    You are just preaching to your own church, lacking forward vision. It will impact you at some point when you will be doing heroic.
  • We wanted better rewards for the time put in to STR.
    You said Raid Reward Improvements were coming.
    We got worse rewards.
    confused-gif-6.gif
    Like, are these 10 pages of text confusing somehow?
    We wanted a simple tie break for TW - we got a jumpled mess of something.
    We want some mod management, but [redacted] at this point maybe just leave it along if you can just [redacted] it up.
    Same for for HAAT and Rancor, seeing as everything that gets touched is always made worse.
    vn6WBPB.gif
    Feels like something at a more base level is wrong @ CG. Customer facing people keep rotating, doing their best, so something else is really off. So, please, finanly....
    3mMjBcm.gif
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • I like the changes.
  • Some really good replies and I agree g12 gear is a major issue that requires main focus
    But the rest of guilds have 2M+ and 1.5m+ members and none of them are going to move up a tier by gearing up Bistan to g9! Woohoo! We all know don’t matter your gp when you all need the same. Gear
    To get your units up to g11. All sith raid gear rewards should have half shards or full piece of that rare gear. To quote sort of “changes being made so guilds can level up to next tier
  • Improvement is the new alternative fact word for nerf
  • DonBongo92 wrote: »
    The Heroic rewards are still soo much better.than T6 rewards. The truth is heroic rewards were way too high before this update and now it is still very good! The main problem is T5 and T6 rewards, whixh were extremely poor before this update and now its even worse, while its a much more demanding raid for the player base who can only hit that then the heroic for Heroic ready guilds... so they should upgrade the T5 and T6 drops to much better and not waste time on this heroic whining...

    Fully agree here that the t6 rewards are poor. Idk about t5 since I never did it. My guild was very disappointed with t6 rewards for the effort and time it takes, so we pushed all our focus into heroic. The updated heroic rewards feel like they should be the minimum floor for t5 or 6. We all spend time and effort in the game and expect reasonable returns for that effort regardless of the tier. It should be rewarding at all levels. Removing challenge gear was a positive step but they went too far in the opposite direction.

    Goosey is a guildmate and I can feel his pain.
    We are an enthusiastic guild, not ready for Heroic when launched.
    We chewed up T6 training relentlessly to improve.
    We have earn both T6 and T7 rewards.
    T6 rewards were insulting faced to the amount of time, work, ressources used to finish the raids.
    Seeing the brilliant rewards in Heroic, it was clear we had to push the fastest as we could to clear the Hero one.
    So we put more ressources ($$$$) to gear and level our rosters to make it.
    I personally geared to g12 the following toons : Veers, Starck, DT, Shore, Snow, Sabine, Daka, Asaji, Acolyte, Talia. (Some starting from g8). And Lumi, Pao to g11.
    Not to mention the zetas and omégas used on those toons.
    Do you have any idea how much I spent to get this done over a month ?
    I did it because I wanted to help my guild to get those luxurious rewards for end game content.
    I also did it to secure top spots in further Heroic raids so I could have best chances of crafted gear and more salvage.
    I wouldn't mind getting a bit less in podiums knowing it would be added to my guildmates rewards accros the 50 of us.

    So NOW and AFTER upgrading all of this, you @CG make it irrelevant by nerfing the rewards ?
    How many more stand like me ?
    Feeling betrayed, robbed by our cynical explanations and actions ... (once AGAIN)

    We did ask for ONE thing and even low tiers would have been happier. Remove the challenge gear.
    Instead of this, you NERF the whole thing accros the board.
    I can get it that gear has to be balanced accros the game for the long run.
    But you DONT TAKE AWAY what you already gave. You DONT CHANGE rules and rewards in the middle of the path.

    Now, the early Heroic guilds had the chance to collect more gear we will never catch back. (AGAIN). Neither the smaller guilds who will farm Heroic onde day or soon.

    I don't even know why I'm using some minutes of my life to come here and rant about something you clearly don't give a f**k judging by your misleading announcements and raw lies.
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Here's a guildy who came in 2nd today:

    EsOrM1r.jpg

    18 pieces of gear that are farmable in light and darkside nodes in hard and normal nodes. 10 that are farmable in a LS normal node (and typically show up in both stores) and 8 that are purchasable in shipments.

    I only posted the screenshot, because the rest of the language in reaction to the dreadfully bad rewards on Discord is against TOS.

    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Kozispoon
    3245 posts EA Staff (retired)
    Hiya,
    As always, we appreciate the feedback from our community. We hear you, and our team is reviewing now. Regardless of the outcome, reviewing requires time, so if you don't hear anything today, we appreciate your patience!
    Thank you for your patience 8D Forum Guidelines
  • Rezalder wrote: »
    Wrote an email to my senator and congressman today:
    First, explaining how EA/CG uses addiction psychology to drive spending on the game.
    Second, explaining the bait and switch of creating incredible rewards for an event then removing them AFTER people have spent real money to be able to attain them.
    Third, providing screenshots of the language used by the developers versus the actual actions and reactions from the community.

    I want to ensure I’m not violating any TOS here, so I’m NOT calling for any ban, spending freeze, or boycott.
    I WILL say that it is everyone’s right to express their opinion to their elected officials if they believe a company is acting in a predatory manner.

    Not sure if it will accomplish anything, but if enough people provide respectful, accurate feedback, we may see action.

    Find your representative’s information here:
    https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative

    And your senator here:
    https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

    Most of us just want our voice heard by CG. This is so far overboard I don't even know what to say. Delicate snowflakes who can't handle some bad decisions which happen in most every game are the ones who are going to get games like GTA banned. This is the same as the guy saying let's petition Disney to take away the EA license. Yeah? Then the game would disappear, is that what you want? Leave the game if you want it to end, without trying to destroy it on your way out. I love this game and want CG to correct this dangerous course they are on. I most certainly don't want it to end.

    While there are many things wrong, and continuing to get worse and worse with the game. I appreciate CG_Carrie with the communication she's trying to improve on.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Here's a guildy who came in 2nd today:

    EsOrM1r.jpg

    It's getting worst and worst
  • I think it’s obvious they wanted to take away some rewards for those clearing heroic. So they over nerf it so drastically that when they slightly bump the rewards back up, still less than half of before, that hopefully people won’t be as upset.
  • Hiya,
    As always, we appreciate the feedback from our community. We hear you, and our team is reviewing now. Regardless of the outcome, reviewing requires time, so if you don't hear anything today, we appreciate your patience!

    Don't review, just REVERT whatever you did yesterday.
    There's nothing that needs a review or debates or management meetings, or PR meetings.
  • Hiya,
    As always, we appreciate the feedback from our community. We hear you, and our team is reviewing now. Regardless of the outcome, reviewing requires time, so if you don't hear anything today, we appreciate your patience!

    Hrmmm. No meme.

    Someone hacked Kozi's account apparently.
  • RJ__Brando
    1500 posts Moderator
    Hiya,
    As always, we appreciate the feedback from our community. We hear you, and our team is reviewing now. Regardless of the outcome, reviewing requires time, so if you don't hear anything today, we appreciate your patience!

    Sight for sore eyes!!

    And continuing with tradition:
    9dveotlzz5uq.gif
  • RJ__Brando
    1500 posts Moderator
    Hiya,
    As always, we appreciate the feedback from our community. We hear you, and our team is reviewing now. Regardless of the outcome, reviewing requires time, so if you don't hear anything today, we appreciate your patience!

    Hrmmm. No meme.

    Someone hacked Kozi's account apparently.

    Haha my thought too ^^^
  • We are a 90K GP guild and just finished a t4 raid. I finished 1st and here are some of the results
    https://ibb.co/fOYXp7

    https://ibb.co/fBzu2S

    I guess they justify the nerf because I received 1,250 more guild store currency. That equates to about 10-20 more salvage I guess. To me the bigger problem is that I spend A LOT less time on heroic rancor and heroic HAAT and I'd rather have those rewards. Plus it's much less of a time commitment.

    I've watched and listened to all the recent interviews by CG_Carrie and they've talked about how it's better to not give something; then to give it and take it away. So I'm also not sure why they are making this change. No one asked for it so it's all risk and no reward in a time where they can't afford to be taking risks. I work really hard to carry the guild and do 30 mil damage and they want to "balance" the loot to reward people who do less work.

    I know now not to trust any of this "more communication" talk. CG_Carrie and the team can communicate all they want now. I've learned to trust what people do more than what they say. So they've lost my trust and I won't be spending any more money on this game.

  • Viserys
    461 posts Member
    Well...

    Every change they've made to the STR and it's surroundings has made it a worse experience...

    It's disheartening. It certainly sounded cool.
  • Hiya,
    As always, we appreciate the feedback from our community. We hear you, and our team is reviewing now. Regardless of the outcome, reviewing requires time, so if you don't hear anything today, we appreciate your patience!

    I missed you
This discussion has been closed.