Posting again today because I wanted to simplify yesterday's message and try to be more clear, and also because I said I would in the comment's of yesterday's thread.
Let me clarify as clearly as possible the intention of the Sith Raid Reward changes:
At an aggregate level (meaning total for the guild but not necessarily for every individual in it), we wanted to boost the rewards that all members of the guild were acquiring, while addressing some quality of life asks (namely the removal of challenge gear).
The glaring exception that arose from this change was in the Sith Heroic Tier which over the long run is going to be among the most valuable set of rewards in the game. However, in order for this to be true, it will require:
Furthermore our stopgap solution to drop lots of full pieces of Gear XII until such time that the above criteria was met - was a fundamentally unhealthy decision on our part. You worked really hard to get these rewards, and even though we are confident that you will like the long term picture of mastering this raid, we haven't earned that with you yet.
- The value of Darth Traya to be realized
- The exclusive new Gear XII 5/6 pieces and
- Time for players to master the raid.
I am personally responsible for this decision, and for that I sincerely apologize for the missed expectations. We effectively made half of a change in order to address the quality of life asks, without the corresponding change to fill in the missing desired rewards.
However, many of the posted screenshots represent an incomplete picture of what the rewards will look like over the long run. Because there is a degree of chance involved, it is possible to see extreme swings in the before and after, despite that not being indicative of the average result.
It was my intention today to post the before and after reward value for the Sith Raid based on the game data to quell some of the concerns about the value of the rewards dropping.
However, based on feedback we need more time to explain the nuances in a way that is straightforward, succinct, and most importantly accurate. We will make every effort to post it before the weekend and will keep you updated.
Thank you for being a dedicated part of the community.
And as always we'll see you on the holotables,
damaging, but the rewards are garbage.
Sample Sizes of Old Drops:
Rank 1-3: 20
Rank 4-10: 14
Rank 11-20: 13
Rank 21-30: 16
Rank 31-40: 13
Rank 41-50: 11
Sample Size of New Boxes: 31
Assumptions: That in the new system all full pieces in the loot table have an equal chance of dropping, at both the 100% promised drop rate and the current and further down the line future.
Clarifications: G12 GET piece cost = 5,600 GET. When rancor piece is talked about, I am using an mk3 carb as the baseline piece.
Under the promised 100% drop rate in the new system:
Under the current and future planned 40% full piece drop rate:
This certainly does not reflect how I interpret when @CG_Carrie said in an April 2 post that "Given the difficult of the raid, we will be increasing the rewards a bit" nor does it match "To our Heroic raiders: please take some time over the next couple of weeks and take a look at the aggregate GP lift among your guildmates... and the rate of growth in ALL players' ability to complete the raid, over the coming weeks". This represents a total loss for the guild in both scenarios, and the only gain can be seen in the 100% drop rate scenario for members that get rank 31+ (and even then only in guild currency since they are still losing GET equivalence).
Now, we are getting g12.5 gear added and that loot will be added to the loot tables. The only way that gear being added makes up for the current losses in GET under the 40% full drop rate scenario (since they have been said to come at the same time in May) is if we a) get between 35 and 40 pieces of salvage AND b) it has the same GET cost as the current g12 gear. In my opinion, both of those are very unlikely.
@CG_Carrie @CG_SaIera @CG_TopHat and any other CG employee that this is pertinent to, if you have any data that shows my tables above are incorrect please provide. Also, if you don't want to provide hard data, you can provide drop rates under the new loot system and old loot system and I will happily calculate the expected value of gains or losses for guilds and members.
Getting into my personal opinion of the changes, I can understand if CG thinks the original boxes dropped too much loot. I can swallow that from a business perspective. What I can't quite comprehend are statements that this is better for our guilds in the long term, when it obviously isn't.
I welcome any dev comments that challenges the validity of this analysis.
Great analysis, as someone who wasn't doing hsith the incentive is purely for traya shards now the gear drops are so much worse
Well done! You need to work for CG.
This whole fiasco would have been a lot easier to swallow had CG just honestly told us they were going to nerf sith rewards from the start. It’s the lies along the way that make people want to burn your house down.
10 cuff pieces, 10 mk7 generator pieces, 8 mk6 carb pieces, and 8 mk10 circle things. It feels just awful to have stressed over this raid for 2 full days for such absolute bollocks.
Value added thread indeed!
I hope this gets a response from the devs.
I am not knocking the overall point at all. I am not in a heroic sith guild but I can imagine how mad I would be right now if I was. However, there is likely bias in the data collection here. Maybe not enough to change the conclusion, but worth mentioning. Data from the devs, or a more random sampling of new data (i.e. assign 25 people before raid payout to submit screenshots after payout), would alleviate the issue.
Howeve, i believe we are forgetting something important: there is no more challenge gear in this raid! I know quantities have gone down but overall quality has improved!
(My guild only runs t4 and t5 so if i am way off base on heroic rewards I apologize)
I would mind seeing that second approach used, but the best method would be finding a guild who recorded everything before and recorded everything after. Absent that, getting a true simple random sample is unfortunately out of the reach for most here.
What is more important to me is that CG is now in a position to have to respond in kind or it would have the appearance that the OP hit the nail on the head irrespective of the sample collection method. Since Maegor invited them to do just that ... I'm eagerly awaiting their response.
It will not happen but I would like to see from CG a proof that in total economics the rewards are improved like promised. Only then it can be accepted that for example g12 drops less.