Follow up Update on Sith Raid Rewards - 4/12/18 [MEGA]

Replies

  • Sonido
    81 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Keldo wrote: »
    DonBongo92 wrote: »
    And again you only talk about the Heroic Sith Raid while most of the player base is suffering the much worse rewards in T5 and T6! Please pay attention to that! I know these players dont spend that much on the game individually but in general they probably do! So please talk about the awful rewards in T5 and T6!

    Get the screenshots up and show them? If everyone is suffering cause of the changes they should be showing them how bad they’ve made it.

    here you go t6 rewards (taken from reddit)
    image.png

    and another new and old rewards

    MNnILVw.jpg


    looks similar just full gear pieces removed

  • Keldo
    364 posts Member
    Mk IV Carbanti :s
  • Would you calculate the odds of clones getting helmets!?

    Seriously, thank you for the awesome table. This must have taken considerable time to develop. This gives perspective if accurate.
  • Yeah, so this is no good! T6 just doesnt worth hitting it 5times a day constantly for 4 days and then start again and again for this terrible reward!
  • Azza
    177 posts Member
    @CG_Carrie

    You keep talking about heroic, but you also nerfed T6 and we don't get those wonderful Traya shards. And we won't get the new G12 gear.

    So what's your explanation on that?
  • @CG_Carrie

    Why not just say:
    "Granting the previous amount of full G12 gear to participants of the hSR was a mistake. We greatly overestimated the time until the community finds ways to consistently farm the hSR. The current reward structure is, as it takes away challenge from end game content, hurting the long-term health of the game. This is why we have decided to reduce rewards by a couple nuances, especially the frequency of full G12 drops."

    This would have been truthful.
    This would have been respectful.

    Even though you'd have gotten into a shitstorm, too, I'm sure the shitstorm would have faded by now.
    Especially because many players (me included) feel that giving away too many G12 pieces is indeed potentially dangerous to the game.
  • I'm a bit confused by ppl who say that rancor rewards are better than STR. I'd personally trade my 104 Raid han shards for 80 darth traya shards any day. I would even relinquish all the gear I get too.

    I don't mean that the rewards are nice the way they are, but there's a big difference between those traya shards an raid han shards.
  • JeerCScaas
    186 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    zorglub wrote: »
    I'm a bit confused by ppl who say that rancor rewards are better than STR. I'd personally trade my 104 Raid han shards for 80 darth traya shards any day. I would even relinquish all the gear I get too.

    I don't mean that the rewards are nice the way they are, but there's a big difference between those traya shards an raid han shards.

    What's the point getting 1 character, even if it's the greatest (maybe), if you can't keep pushing on your whole roster ? (130 toons)

  • Sonido
    81 posts Member
    All tiers got nerfed to worst boxes, not only Heroic
  • Nauros
    2927 posts Member
    To be fair, the heroic rewards needed to be cut down a bit, especially with the G12,5 on the way. That is fine, but all the rest is a disaster. Why they had to cut them down so drastically? Why they were so generous in the first place? And what the kitten is going on with the communication, trying to convince us that we as a guild will get more stuff? I get the overall health of the game argument, multiple full G12 pieces is really a bit too much, but nobody will convince me that less is in fact more.
    As for Rancor and Haat, everyone getting the same boxes would be better than deciding the rewards by a dice roll, if done correctly.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Jack92
    176 posts Member
    Heroic Sith rewards, 5th place
    I'm a bit disappointed.

    2jg42nr.jpg
  • TotenTeufel
    94 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Mischen1, I see by your roster that you're a casual player. No G12, really? Many aren't. I will include myself in that. To understand the outcry, you need to look at the everything that has happened since the STR raid was released. It has been nerf after nerf. So, I ask you, since some people playing this game are paying customers, when are they allowed to complain? This would be no different than say you're mobile carrier saying buy this phone it's the fastest on the market, and then coming back and saying it's too fast, we need to slow it down." Would you not be upset? Would you not feel like you've been lied to?
    https://swgoh.gg/u/totenteufel/
    “When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” George R R Martin
  • So your goal was for the guild ,as a whole, when looking at the quality of their rewards to be better than in the past. Meaning increases for lower # and decreases for high #?
  • Anex
    20 posts Member
    @CG_Carrie I truly appreciate you putting yourself out there and trying to inform and appease the community. Being the public face reaps with constant negativity, so for that, we do value and thank you for doing so. Unfortunately, that is the only positive thing I can say about anything you've done.

    When you first came out and started to reset communications, went on the pr campaign, etc., I think the community - certainly the one I live in (supporting > 10,000 ppl on multiple discord servers) - felt there was finally a swing in the right direction with those at CG and more importantly, with the game. It appeared as though you were all finally listening to and valuing community players, being open about changes and why you were making them, and laying out meaningful steps to address concerns. However, all that good will, all that positivism, all your credibility has been completely - and I dare say irreparably - lost.

    Changes aside, intent aside, you have utterly destroyed yourself in this game. Surely you must understand everything post on the internet is forever and thus, anything you say would be recorded and fact checked against anything you say in the future? You clearly indicated rewards were going to be better, were going to be improved, but on your very first approved change, you decimated the reward system. Sure, there were a few outliers that had one or two decent pieces, but the vast majority - you have to know we share everything so we all know what each other are getting - has been complete garbage. Top ranks getting PIT quality gear (not even full pieces in most cases, just shards of it)? Guys in 40 - 50 posting 0's (i.e. doing absolutely nothing) getting a full piece (in a few cases, even a full g12 piece)? Words could never truly express our anger and disappointment with you and these changes...try though as we may.

    1) Top ranks should always be better rewarded than ANYONE in the guild. This has always been a major problem in the reward system. These players put the most effort into building their profiles and putting up the best possible scores. They MUST be rewarded for that effort.

    2) A Flat reward base is a good idea but it has to be paired with a tiered bonus reward system. Everyone should have the same base rewards, while the tiered bonus would then reward those folks who earn those top spots, This will maintain an incentive to continue their efforts while still providing something to elevate those scoring lower.

    We can debate what those rewards should be, what constitutes a bonus reward, etc., but we must first establish points 1 and 2 above as the base starting point. As it stands, these current changes and even those you hint to for May still do not hit that mark.

    @CG_Carrie Again, I appreciate you having the fortitude to put yourself out there and I truly hope you can regain trust of the community. I cannot and do not speak for everyone, but for me, I can say you will have a very long and difficult road ahead before you earn mine.
  • Jack92 wrote: »
    Heroic Sith rewards, 5th place
    I'm a bit disappointed.

    2jg42nr.jpg

    haha and i believe cuz those guns and cuffs, this is better RNG drop than usuall. as someone already said, best comparsion is to TW rewards. 2nd when u dont do anything but set 1 def team has much much better gear + pretty much same currency rewards (and zetas and omegas, ok well no traya) than this sith raid which is taking hours of play from almost every member in guild.
  • Jeric
    267 posts Member
    zorglub wrote: »
    I'm a bit confused by ppl who say that rancor rewards are better than STR. I'd personally trade my 104 Raid han shards for 80 darth traya shards any day. I would even relinquish all the gear I get too.

    I don't mean that the rewards are nice the way they are, but there's a big difference between those traya shards an raid han shards.

    Once Traya is unlocked and fully starred, there is no further incentive to continue putting in the effort. The hPIT can be done in 10 minutes on auto. Another issue is guild attrition after the majority of the guild has Traya. New individuals added to a guild might now find Traya out of reach because some guild members just won't bother due the complexity and time investment of the raid. The old rewards helped mitigate this.

  • Nikoms565
    11806 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Jack92 wrote: »
    Heroic Sith rewards, 5th place
    I'm a bit disappointed.

    2jg42nr.jpg

    Funny thing is, that's actually one of the better drops I've seen. :D....and it pretty much looks like a good HAAT drop
    Post edited by Nikoms565 on
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • this is the biggest troll here since game release.


    OK, so because you cant clear heroic everyone who can should have their gear drops severely decreased? Suuure.

    This entire "rework" (read: joke) is just plain ridiculous. After clearing a T6 I got a full stun gun (yay) and some armatek gear.

    That's considerably worse than the average T6 drop before the nerf (even with the stun gun which meant it was a much BETTER drop than most).

    CG/EA should do one of the following:


    1. lower guild store/guild event store prices
    2. buff the guild store/GET payout by about 1.5 to 2x for Heroic, T6 and T5 (which have been affected)
    3. Give all players 1000 crystals, then reroll back to original rewards
  • Banth wrote: »
    Please excuse my bluntness. So, the next two weeks we all have to suffer from a mistake of "jumping the gun" on the decision to half rollout a change to rewards in the HARDEST piece of the game that people, myself included, spent a good chunk of money on to have the toons necessary to beat this "not very fun" campaign that we should feel "a sense of accomplishment" in beating?

    I'm sorry, I'm normally in support of devs and the business but NOT when mistakes are made and acknowledged, but not acted on immediately to reverse, a.k.a hotfix. This give us two weeks of **** rewards and we'll give you a few days of good rewards before we take them back again and give you something you've never seen the value of approach is absurd.

    Rant over...still not a happy PAYING customer.

    You should get a refund. You paid for something just like anything else you’d normally pay for and are entitled to a refund when something like this happens. You wouldn’t keep a broken Xbox controller would you? No, you’d return it. Do the same here.

    You're an over-privileged, entitled child. People bought content and received what they paid for. If you don't like what you bought, that's tough ****. You're not entitled to a refund because something wasn't as useful as you thought it would be. You didn't buy a broken XBox controller; you bought a pack of magic cards and didn't get any greens. Good luck begging EA for a refund after they delivered the content you paid for.
  • TigCarn
    34 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    @CG_Carrie the best way to fix this is to make heroic no longer drop salvage. Everyone gets 6 full pieces of gear.
    You want 40% chance on G12 no problem. There should also be a 50-60% chance at a full piece G11 finisher. 1-3 full G10-11 pieces depending on G12 and G11 finisher drops. And finally 3 random full pieces of the following Mk3 Carbanti, Mk3 Stuncuff, Mk5 Stungun prototype, Mk4 Comlink prototype.
    If a guild has perfect tickets for a year that's 91 heroic raids. 40% drops would be 36 G12 for the year, 60% on G11 finishers is 54 drops. Sure this is considerably more than the disappointment you plan on giving us and there is no way of spinning that we will be excited about that even after change goes live.
    Edit: top 3 finishers get bonus event and guild currency, top 10 bonus guild currency.
    Post edited by TigCarn on
  • G_Man
    18 posts Member
    There is a way to confirm the spreadsheet above and it's validity. CG can provide GP gain data of a normalised distribution of GP for 2 weeks prior nerf in comparison to post nerf. I bet the latter is reduced
  • Maegor
    1217 posts Member
    Acrofales wrote: »
    This is a great analysis, however there are some things worth mentioning:
    1) ppl don't usually screenshot their reward if it's "just average"; only when it's really bad or really good. So you have a bias here that you can't really correct for without more data.
    2) You don't have enough data points to be statistically significant even disregarding the bias (not saying the difference isn't significant in your sample, but that your sample isn't a significant representation of the population).

    That said, it is great to see a stab at quantifying the change, and I fully support the effort.

    1) Yeah, I agree with this, and I said that in one of the replies that there is an inherent bias in the data because what makes one person post and another not? The answer is what you say - either they got something really good or something really bad.

    The only counter I would have to that (which doesn't make it more statistically sound, I know) - each old box in each tier always dropped the same amount of salvage unless that particular salvage roll rolled full. So for the old boxes, what you really need to know is the drop rate of "bonus" full pieces, and the chance of a salvage group rolling to full. Did I get there with my data? Not really, and will admit that.

    2) Kind of explained in my response to 1.

    And thanks! I know my data isn't "perfect", but it would take a severe bias in the old boxes that I had to begin to show the new system coming close to even or better.
  • Maegor
    1217 posts Member
    G_Man wrote: »
    There is a way to confirm the spreadsheet above and it's validity. CG can provide GP gain data of a normalised distribution of GP for 2 weeks prior nerf in comparison to post nerf. I bet the latter is reduced

    Or they could just give us drop rates for each tier of the old boxes and drop rates for the new boxes. THEN we could do some really fun (and accurate) analysis.
  • this is the biggest troll here since game release.


    OK, so because you cant clear heroic everyone who can should have their gear drops severely decreased? Suuure.

    This entire "rework" (read: joke) is just plain ridiculous. After clearing a T6 I got a full stun gun (yay) and some armatek gear.

    That's considerably worse than the average T6 drop before the nerf (even with the stun gun which meant it was a much BETTER drop than most).

    CG/EA should do one of the following:


    1. lower guild store/guild event store prices
    2. buff the guild store/GET payout by about 1.5 to 2x for Heroic, T6 and T5 (which have been affected)
    3. Give all players 1000 crystals, then reroll back to original rewards

    Ironically i would have taken the stun gun.
  • G_Man
    18 posts Member
    Yes that's true but they would never give that away I expect. Since April 4th the game has dropped into to the 50 rankings of top grossing but still EA biggest seller. $60000 per day so they can ill afford to mess that up.

    Good news is you can't dispute the statistics generally with a large enough sample. Love the work.
  • @CG_Carrie

    I'm hesitant to believe before/after data information, simply for the fact any data will be ex post facto (after the fact). Without us knowing what the gear quality weighting was before this disaster, we can't trust you not to post some random numbers that suppprt your arguement. I've seen many many screenshots, and have great trouble believing that many people being on a low line of randomness. You cannot be trusted. It's sad to say that, but that is the situation you've created.


  • TigCarn wrote: »
    @CG_Carrie the best way to fix this is to make heroic no longer drop salvage. Everyone gets 6 full pieces of gear.
    You want 40% chance on G12 no problem. There should also be a 50-60% chance at a full piece G11 finisher. 1-3 full G10-11 pieces depending on G12 and G11 finisher drops. And finally 3 random full pieces of the following Mk3 Carbanti, Mk3 Stuncuff, Mk5 Stungun prototype, Mk4 Comlink prototype.
    If a guild has perfect tickets for a year that's 91 heroic raids. 40% drops would be 36 G12 for the year, 60% on G11 finishers is 54 drops. Sure this is considerably more than the disappointment you plan on giving us and there is no way of spinning that we will be excited about that even after change goes live.

    Lets say a guild can complete 2 HSTR a week. Thats a grand total of over 600 Full gear pieces a year.
  • I merged the two "Sith Raid Reward" threads.

    Cheers.
  • Nauros
    2927 posts Member
    TigCarn wrote: »
    @CG_Carrie the best way to fix this is to make heroic no longer drop salvage. Everyone gets 6 full pieces of gear.
    You want 40% chance on G12 no problem. There should also be a 50-60% chance at a full piece G11 finisher. 1-3 full G10-11 pieces depending on G12 and G11 finisher drops. And finally 3 random full pieces of the following Mk3 Carbanti, Mk3 Stuncuff, Mk5 Stungun prototype, Mk4 Comlink prototype.
    If a guild has perfect tickets for a year that's 91 heroic raids. 40% drops would be 36 G12 for the year, 60% on G11 finishers is 54 drops. Sure this is considerably more than the disappointment you plan on giving us and there is no way of spinning that we will be excited about that even after change goes live.

    Or the other way around, make it drop only currency but in much larger amounts (several thousands of GET) to allow everyone buy what they want, possibly along with a shop update to make stuff reliably available.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
This discussion has been closed.