Sith Raid Reward Rollback - 4/17/18 [MEGA]

Replies

  • Jeric
    258 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Deadheat wrote: »
    Dude you made 2 post about the same thing its not a big deal

    This time with less salt. And shouldn’t be deleted this time. And it is a big deal cause I’m just as affected by this as my co-members. But because they’re at 85 they get an advantage.

    You would be just as affected if you were deprived the the same level of gear the Heroic guilds were. Let's be honest, the chance of getting fully crafted gear in tier 4-6 wasn't that high prior to the flattening attempt to necessarily require the same level of compensation.

    Secondly, they also focused on active long term players irrespective of what tier they were in. Level 85 is a solid marker for activity and longevity in this game.
  • Fizix
    127 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fizix wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fizix wrote: »
    CG_Carrie wrote:
    This change will take effect after tomorrow’s Content Update, which will be signified as complete by a in-game server restart message. The patch notes will also be posted to the EA Forums shortly before the update goes live. To ensure you get the new rewards, do not close out Phase 4 until that restart has occurred.
    This was misleading. I assumed this meant we would see the update come today...

    @Fizix we did see the update today.

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/166923/content-update-hf-4-18-18#latest

    I must be missing something then. Where are the patch notes Carrie spoke of? I don't see any new content in the game yet. I expected to see the content mentioned here: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/165361/the-road-ahead-april-5-2018 . Did she only mean the rollback? I'm sorta lost here.

    Yes what was pushed out today was just the rollback. The post i linked you was the update for today.

    The Road ahead post is a roadmap of the next few months, not something that will come out all at once.

    Can you try and find out where the patch notes are? When Carrie said the "EA Forums," did she mean elsewhere?
  • Jeric
    258 posts Member
    Fizix wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fizix wrote: »
    CG_Carrie wrote:
    This change will take effect after tomorrow’s Content Update, which will be signified as complete by a in-game server restart message. The patch notes will also be posted to the EA Forums shortly before the update goes live. To ensure you get the new rewards, do not close out Phase 4 until that restart has occurred.
    This was misleading. I assumed this meant we would see the update come today...

    @Fizix we did see the update today.

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/166923/content-update-hf-4-18-18#latest

    I must be missing something then. Where are the patch notes Carrie spoke of? I don't see any new content in the game yet. I expected to see the content mentioned here: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/165361/the-road-ahead-april-5-2018 . Did she only mean the rollback? I'm sorta lost here.

    Yes. Specifically rolling an element of the prior content update back due to a non technical issue.
  • scuba
    12138 posts Member
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Here’s a simple fix for this. Next time through, take out the majority of challenge gear. Keep the mk3 carbs, mk6 syringes and mk4 laptops. That’s literally the biggest thing.
    To scale the rewards? Cut the full piece drop rate to 40% as intended with the update. But on the flip side keep the salvage worthwhile. Drop a salvage of much needed gear between mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs, and mk3 carbs. For heroic let’s say 10-20 depending on the rank tier. The next salvage let it drop 10-20 of a group of much needed gear from HAAT between mk3 Bactin, mk4 holo’s and mk6 thermals. Again the amount depending on the rank tier. The next salvage group being 10-20 of the golden tier salvage of mk8 eyeballs, mk9 datapads, and the gold medpacs. The next you drop a group of g12 gear (purple or gold). 5-15 salvage. Finally for heroic you drop the new G12 gold gear. How they want to tune that is up to the devs. This is a main example for heroic.
    Then scale the rewards based on the tiers. Scale the gear and salvage amount based on tiers as you go back. Make the time and effort worthwhile. How does this sound? Kyno CG_Carrie Nikoms565 scuba (Nikom and scuba, I tagged you guys because you are some of the most prominent posters on the forums.)

    You lost me at keeping with keeping any challenge gear but MK3 carbs.

    You wouldn’t want the syringes and mk4 laptops included in the lower tiers of the raid?
    In the lower tiers maybe. Personally not in the heroic
  • Jeric
    258 posts Member
    LORDKAI wrote: »
    You have got to be kidding me. Why even bother striving to get better at this raid with no incentive for personal gain. That is why players play in the first place. Now there is no reason for advancement. This is only beneficial to the elite whales who can benefit from being the top 1%

    +1 I feel like the update finally did 2 things 1) made lower tiers worth the effort of spending the better part of a week on them 2)started enlightening heroic guilds as to the deep, deep balance flaws of the new raid that the majority of the player base has been complaining about that make it not worth running when you don't get gear worth 5k-10k in crystals each run.

    I didnt honestly have a great deal of sympathy for heroic guilds since really all that happened was their rewards being brought in line with what non heroic guilds were already getting relative to their effort. I think it says a lot about how poorly designed the raid is that the consensus among the elite guilds is that when they aren't getting a 100% drop on a full g12 gear each raid the time investment isn't worth it.

    I also gotta hand it to the devs, it's a special talent to release updates that result in 100% of the community to hate the newest content.

    I'm in a non heroic guild and my guild's reward payout was pathetic after the update. I'm glad they rolled it back.
  • scuba
    12138 posts Member
    Little off topic but i keep seeing it stated these changes only hurt/benefited elite guilds. There is currently over 200 guilds completing the Heroic Sith Raid (I am sure it is more but leadboard only goes to 200), I am not sure how many active guilds but 200+ doesn't sound very elite to me.
  • So I take it whales cried that others would get rewards that could help f2p players actually advance at a decent pace. I for one understand ppl that p2p should be doing better than f2p. But some f2p guilds weren't downing heroic AAT for a year launch compared to p2p guilds clearing it weeks after launch. That's messed up.

    Also evening raid rewards throughout an entire guild that's working together isnt wrong. It's the spirit of teamwork and cooperation.

    Things need to get fixed before all that's left are whales and I doubt the whales will stay long when they can no longer feel like God's compared to normal ppl.

    Bc we'll whales are whales in games in general bc they suck at life and need to feel powerful somewhere...

    Over 2 years I like many have paid about the equivalent to a wow supscription but refuse to pay more when it requires the equivalent to a car payment to actually keep up... They almost had me paying again but not when they bow to the whales again. Just my opinion I never read what others said.
  • scuba wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Here’s a simple fix for this. Next time through, take out the majority of challenge gear. Keep the mk3 carbs, mk6 syringes and mk4 laptops. That’s literally the biggest thing.
    To scale the rewards? Cut the full piece drop rate to 40% as intended with the update. But on the flip side keep the salvage worthwhile. Drop a salvage of much needed gear between mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs, and mk3 carbs. For heroic let’s say 10-20 depending on the rank tier. The next salvage let it drop 10-20 of a group of much needed gear from HAAT between mk3 Bactin, mk4 holo’s and mk6 thermals. Again the amount depending on the rank tier. The next salvage group being 10-20 of the golden tier salvage of mk8 eyeballs, mk9 datapads, and the gold medpacs. The next you drop a group of g12 gear (purple or gold). 5-15 salvage. Finally for heroic you drop the new G12 gold gear. How they want to tune that is up to the devs. This is a main example for heroic.
    Then scale the rewards based on the tiers. Scale the gear and salvage amount based on tiers as you go back. Make the time and effort worthwhile. How does this sound? Kyno CG_Carrie Nikoms565 scuba (Nikom and scuba, I tagged you guys because you are some of the most prominent posters on the forums.)

    You lost me at keeping with keeping any challenge gear but MK3 carbs.

    You wouldn’t want the syringes and mk4 laptops included in the lower tiers of the raid?
    In the lower tiers maybe. Personally not in the heroic

    Well of course lol. Heroic should only be seeing rewards of mk3 carbs/guns/cuffs from that group. Then a group between mk6 thermals/mk3 bacta and mk4 holo’s. And of course between the mk8 bio prototype, mk9 datapads and mk7 medpac. Then sprinkle in some G12 salavage and the new g12 gear getting released
  • scuba wrote: »
    Little off topic but i keep seeing it stated these changes only hurt/benefited elite guilds. There is currently over 200 guilds completing the Heroic Sith Raid (I am sure it is more but leadboard only goes to 200), I am not sure how many active guilds but 200+ doesn't sound very elite to me.

    Assuming only 500k active players, those 200 guilds would only represent ~2% of the population. What's your definition of elite? 0.5%? 0.000000001%?

    Isn't the generally accepted 'whale' population around 2%?
  • CCyrilS
    2558 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    Little off topic but i keep seeing it stated these changes only hurt/benefited elite guilds. There is currently over 200 guilds completing the Heroic Sith Raid (I am sure it is more but leadboard only goes to 200), I am not sure how many active guilds but 200+ doesn't sound very elite to me.

    Assuming only 500k active players, those 200 guilds would only represent ~2% of the population. What's your definition of elite? 0.5%? 0.000000001%?

    Isn't the generally accepted 'whale' population around 2%?

    This argument is pointless without knowing the actual number completing heroic. We only know it's at least 200.
  • Vohbo
    332 posts Member
    Jeric wrote: »
    LORDKAI wrote: »
    You have got to be kidding me. Why even bother striving to get better at this raid with no incentive for personal gain. That is why players play in the first place. Now there is no reason for advancement. This is only beneficial to the elite whales who can benefit from being the top 1%

    +1 I feel like the update finally did 2 things 1) made lower tiers worth the effort of spending the better part of a week on them 2)started enlightening heroic guilds as to the deep, deep balance flaws of the new raid that the majority of the player base has been complaining about that make it not worth running when you don't get gear worth 5k-10k in crystals each run.

    I didnt honestly have a great deal of sympathy for heroic guilds since really all that happened was their rewards being brought in line with what non heroic guilds were already getting relative to their effort. I think it says a lot about how poorly designed the raid is that the consensus among the elite guilds is that when they aren't getting a 100% drop on a full g12 gear each raid the time investment isn't worth it.

    I also gotta hand it to the devs, it's a special talent to release updates that result in 100% of the community to hate the newest content.

    I'm in a non heroic guild and my guild's reward payout was pathetic after the update. I'm glad they rolled it back.

    You may think that the reward payout was bad, but that is only true if you do not count the value of Guild and Event currency. Even at tier 4, every kill rewarded approximately 1000 crystals more of value in these currencies that is simply gone now, as well as higher tier rewards (albeit fewer than we will currently get).
    In total, all tiers below Heroic get reduced rewards now, but a few people may not have done the math or be captured in their own perception. Make no mistake, this rollback is terrible for lower tier guilds.
  • Ameepa
    20 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    I liked the tokens.. they made lower tiers actually worth doing.
  • Vohbo wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Hey, they actually listen and admit that they screwed up, that's nice.
    As for the non-heroic rewards, I don't see it as a big deal. The improvement, if any, wasn't really dramatic anyway.
    Also, yay, free stuff!

    Just an example
    Old payout, T4 top spot: 1375 guild currency, 0 event currency, some Rancor level gear, 475K credits
    New payout, T4 top spot: 2500 guild currency, 420 event currency, AAT level gear, 475K credits.

    Tell me again how the difference is not absolutely MASSIVE ? And the new payout is still far too low for the effort put into it. The old payout is just silly.
    Vohbo wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Hey, they actually listen and admit that they screwed up, that's nice.
    As for the non-heroic rewards, I don't see it as a big deal. The improvement, if any, wasn't really dramatic anyway.
    Also, yay, free stuff!

    Just an example
    Old payout, T4 top spot: 1375 guild currency, 0 event currency, some Rancor level gear, 475K credits
    New payout, T4 top spot: 2500 guild currency, 420 event currency, AAT level gear, 475K credits.

    Tell me again how the difference is not absolutely MASSIVE ? And the new payout is still far too low for the effort put into it. The old payout is just silly.

    The new payout felt like a step in the right direction. The guild I am in runs T4 and it seemed like most liked the new payout. Guess we’ll see what the powers decide to do with the rewards down the road.



  • zorglub
    56 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    @CG_Carrie
    I haven't read all the previous comments so perhaps I'm saying something that was already raised, but I have a big problem with the lvl 85 exclusive compensation for the raid changes.

    You see, in my arena shard, there's probably around 10 - 20 lvl 85 players. I'm working hard to stay in the top of arena, doing what it takes to keep up, levelling up as fast as I can. I'm now lvl 84, in a good spot (been consistently making top 10 finishes the past weeks).

    And now this gift comes, and creates a huge shift in balance. Anyone who's lvl 85 gets a HUGE buff to their already terrifying squads, and the day I hit lvl 85 I won't have any chance to make up for this.

    That's pretty unfair
    Post edited by zorglub on
  • After Interest in the SithRaid dropped to 6/50, it was 27/50 again after inflicting guild event tokens. Now you can take the infamous SithRaid out of the game, the Internet is Zone. Why did only we players with level 85 get these 2 compensation? Are the other Players worth nothing because the are passend over???
  • Boba_The_Fetter
    3120 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Jeez thanks for the free gear
  • Thank you Carrie and CG
  • Jack92
    176 posts Member
    Good Choice!
  • Looooki
    211 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    U guys sure are happy for 2 small pieces of gear. I mean for the amount of small rewards u guys settle for something else instead of getting them to fix the issue.

    Sorry man but these are good gifts ... but fix the bloody issue already !
  • Appreciate the roll back tremendously..as well as the 2 gear pieces. CHOPPA is a happy droid with his new medpak! Thanks for putting the incentive back in the game's new and top PVE content.

    Also, I do find the raid fun in parts. I think one of the greatest puzzles the game has ever had is trying to escape Hermit Yoda at enrage from DN in P1. Using him over and over has become a game within the game for me. P2 and fumbling with the pain / suffering mechanic on your high damage toons is also a nice tactical challenge. P3 the stand alone mechanic is ok, but it's pretty basic to use. P4 is just chaos, but seeing the NS at their full potential on display there is a lot of fun.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    YanM123 wrote: »
    TAureliusC wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    Oh awesome the lower tiers go back to the same less than stellar rewards. Oh well. I liked the change for the lower tiers. Great for those who do heroic, but back to the dumping grounds for the rest of us. The lower tiers are not worth the effort for what we got at the beginning.

    The cries of whales and krakens are greater than those of dolphins, minnows, and FTP.

    Those doing tier 5 & 6 were also posting their displeasure with the reward changes. And there are minnows and f2p in Heroic Sith guilds. So, while cute and pithy, your statement is also completely unrelated to this situation.

    This would be a Pepsi challenge worth doing! Have EA/CG disclose the % of people doing heroic sith raid that's F2P vs "That Gigantic Sea Creature" so we know exactly who and how it's affecting the player base. We can liberally interpret FTP as someone who spent less than say $100 entirely in this game for the last year.

    You'd be surprised by the answer to that. Of course larger whale guilds have been doing it from the start, but a lot of smaller guilds have since defeated heroic. Late end-game difference between a FTP and PTP player is not that big.. a FTP will just be missing the less useful characters. My guild has been completing it for a few weeks now and we're composed of at least half free to play players.

    The important part of completing heroic is strategy and communication. Not wallet size.

    This is precisely my point. While I know I occasionally fall into the same trap, I always find it fascinating when people think there own experience of the game mirrors everyone's.

    That is exactly part of the challenge CG has in creating raids and other content for players of differing start dates (which now has a 2 and 1/2 year range), differing spending habits, etc. Content that would be almost impossible for some players would be boring an easily "auto" by players who have been playing for longer or who spent.

    By way of example, f2p players (or minnows/guppies) who have just started might not be able to participate in/do damage in heroic Sith raids for 2 years. As a guppy myself, who has been playing for 2 and 1/2 years, I can honestly say, I would not have ready to contribute significantly to Heroic Sith 6 months ago either. I didn't have JTRey (yep, missed her the first time), let alone have her at g12 and my BB8 wasn't anywhere near g12 - nor were my Imp Troopers. Heck, I didn't even have Vader or Palp at g12 then. My point is simply that if you've only been playing a year or less, you can't expect to compete at the highest level of every piece of content released. Yes, the game is very "grindy" at times - but that's part of the game and part of the point. P2P players pay to skip some of the grind and speed up some of the process.

    Aside from all of that, I also should mention that, in general, there really is no need to "catch up" to those who have been playing since launch or the whales. You aren't competing against them in any way. The people in your arena shard all started about the same time you did. If they are ahead of you, the either paid money (so they paid for their advantage) or they are simply more active than you. So most of you doing t4 or t5 won't be facing Traya anytime soon in a your arena shards. The people that will be unlocking Traya in the next few months are either people on much older arena shards or whales who have paid for that advantage.

    In TW you are competing with guilds that are about the same strength as you (with some possible exceptions - but that's for another thread). In raids, you should be competing at a level that your guild can accomplish in a reasonable time based on the rate you collect raid tickets (now, whether or not STR falls into that category is a different discussion - this thread is about the rewards).

    CG/EA would like people to feel that they NEED to catch up - but you don't. You simply progress, compete at the level that is fun and challenging for you and your guild, and continue to strengthen your roster over time to tackle the ever-growing amount of challenging content in the game. Heroic level raids (all of them) are goals to be achieved over time. There are two ways to reach those higher levels - more money or more time.

    Eh, didn't you just said don't take your own game experience and mirror that onto everyone else?! Didn't you read that many 100m + GP guilds doing T4/T5?!?!?! You think nobody inthose guilds are near the top of their arena?! Majority of guilds doing T4/T5 are strong guilds with a lot of strong players. Heck, I'm in a guild of 36 with 53m GP and we are doing T4 sith, and I'm near the top 30 of my arena most of the time.

    I have one main account that I paid money into and the other account that I spent absolutely nothing into. Both started out the same time almost 2 years ago and I spend just about the same amount of time into each. One is at 2.9m and the other is at 1.2m GP. Both in the same guild. I believe if I had started from launch my second account could be near 2m GP by now, but without spending a dime the difference between ftp and p2p is drastic.

    I agree that the only way the catch up is through either time or money. What some mentioned in here wasn't suggesting CG find a way to equalize the power gap by allowing the lower levels guys to catch up to the OG day 1 players or the p2p players. What they want is to make the lower tier raids more rewarding so that players can make advances in the game, rather than just rewarding players who pay, which is a vicious cycle.
  • Nikoms565
    10967 posts Member
    TAureliusC wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    YanM123 wrote: »
    TAureliusC wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    Oh awesome the lower tiers go back to the same less than stellar rewards. Oh well. I liked the change for the lower tiers. Great for those who do heroic, but back to the dumping grounds for the rest of us. The lower tiers are not worth the effort for what we got at the beginning.

    The cries of whales and krakens are greater than those of dolphins, minnows, and FTP.

    Those doing tier 5 & 6 were also posting their displeasure with the reward changes. And there are minnows and f2p in Heroic Sith guilds. So, while cute and pithy, your statement is also completely unrelated to this situation.

    This would be a Pepsi challenge worth doing! Have EA/CG disclose the % of people doing heroic sith raid that's F2P vs "That Gigantic Sea Creature" so we know exactly who and how it's affecting the player base. We can liberally interpret FTP as someone who spent less than say $100 entirely in this game for the last year.

    You'd be surprised by the answer to that. Of course larger whale guilds have been doing it from the start, but a lot of smaller guilds have since defeated heroic. Late end-game difference between a FTP and PTP player is not that big.. a FTP will just be missing the less useful characters. My guild has been completing it for a few weeks now and we're composed of at least half free to play players.

    The important part of completing heroic is strategy and communication. Not wallet size.

    This is precisely my point. While I know I occasionally fall into the same trap, I always find it fascinating when people think there own experience of the game mirrors everyone's.

    That is exactly part of the challenge CG has in creating raids and other content for players of differing start dates (which now has a 2 and 1/2 year range), differing spending habits, etc. Content that would be almost impossible for some players would be boring an easily "auto" by players who have been playing for longer or who spent.

    By way of example, f2p players (or minnows/guppies) who have just started might not be able to participate in/do damage in heroic Sith raids for 2 years. As a guppy myself, who has been playing for 2 and 1/2 years, I can honestly say, I would not have ready to contribute significantly to Heroic Sith 6 months ago either. I didn't have JTRey (yep, missed her the first time), let alone have her at g12 and my BB8 wasn't anywhere near g12 - nor were my Imp Troopers. Heck, I didn't even have Vader or Palp at g12 then. My point is simply that if you've only been playing a year or less, you can't expect to compete at the highest level of every piece of content released. Yes, the game is very "grindy" at times - but that's part of the game and part of the point. P2P players pay to skip some of the grind and speed up some of the process.

    Aside from all of that, I also should mention that, in general, there really is no need to "catch up" to those who have been playing since launch or the whales. You aren't competing against them in any way. The people in your arena shard all started about the same time you did. If they are ahead of you, the either paid money (so they paid for their advantage) or they are simply more active than you. So most of you doing t4 or t5 won't be facing Traya anytime soon in a your arena shards. The people that will be unlocking Traya in the next few months are either people on much older arena shards or whales who have paid for that advantage.

    In TW you are competing with guilds that are about the same strength as you (with some possible exceptions - but that's for another thread). In raids, you should be competing at a level that your guild can accomplish in a reasonable time based on the rate you collect raid tickets (now, whether or not STR falls into that category is a different discussion - this thread is about the rewards).

    CG/EA would like people to feel that they NEED to catch up - but you don't. You simply progress, compete at the level that is fun and challenging for you and your guild, and continue to strengthen your roster over time to tackle the ever-growing amount of challenging content in the game. Heroic level raids (all of them) are goals to be achieved over time. There are two ways to reach those higher levels - more money or more time.

    Eh, didn't you just said don't take your own game experience and mirror that onto everyone else?! Didn't you read that many 100m + GP guilds doing T4/T5?!?!?! You think nobody inthose guilds are near the top of their arena?! Majority of guilds doing T4/T5 are strong guilds with a lot of strong players. Heck, I'm in a guild of 36 with 53m GP and we are doing T4 sith, and I'm near the top 30 of my arena most of the time.

    I have one main account that I paid money into and the other account that I spent absolutely nothing into. Both started out the same time almost 2 years ago and I spend just about the same amount of time into each. One is at 2.9m and the other is at 1.2m GP. Both in the same guild. I believe if I had started from launch my second account could be near 2m GP by now, but without spending a dime the difference between ftp and p2p is drastic.

    I agree that the only way the catch up is through either time or money. What some mentioned in here wasn't suggesting CG find a way to equalize the power gap by allowing the lower levels guys to catch up to the OG day 1 players or the p2p players. What they want is to make the lower tier raids more rewarding so that players can make advances in the game, rather than just rewarding players who pay, which is a vicious cycle.

    F2p can advance in the game. They can eventually unlock all the characters and "beat" all the content. They just have to do so at a slower pace than p2p. They also will, at times, struggle to compete with spenders at the top of their arena shards. That's by design, WAI, and meant to encourage spending. This is one of the more f2p-friendly freemium games around. Apparently some people don't see it that way.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Jeric
    258 posts Member
    Vohbo wrote: »
    Jeric wrote: »
    LORDKAI wrote: »
    You have got to be kidding me. Why even bother striving to get better at this raid with no incentive for personal gain. That is why players play in the first place. Now there is no reason for advancement. This is only beneficial to the elite whales who can benefit from being the top 1%

    +1 I feel like the update finally did 2 things 1) made lower tiers worth the effort of spending the better part of a week on them 2)started enlightening heroic guilds as to the deep, deep balance flaws of the new raid that the majority of the player base has been complaining about that make it not worth running when you don't get gear worth 5k-10k in crystals each run.

    I didnt honestly have a great deal of sympathy for heroic guilds since really all that happened was their rewards being brought in line with what non heroic guilds were already getting relative to their effort. I think it says a lot about how poorly designed the raid is that the consensus among the elite guilds is that when they aren't getting a 100% drop on a full g12 gear each raid the time investment isn't worth it.

    I also gotta hand it to the devs, it's a special talent to release updates that result in 100% of the community to hate the newest content.

    I'm in a non heroic guild and my guild's reward payout was pathetic after the update. I'm glad they rolled it back.

    You may think that the reward payout was bad, but that is only true if you do not count the value of Guild and Event currency. Even at tier 4, every kill rewarded approximately 1000 crystals more of value in these currencies that is simply gone now, as well as higher tier rewards (albeit fewer than we will currently get).
    In total, all tiers below Heroic get reduced rewards now, but a few people may not have done the math or be captured in their own perception. Make no mistake, this rollback is terrible for lower tier guilds.

    There are plenty of "pre-nerf" and "post-nerf" screenshots going around that one can get a reasonable sample size to show that the net value was a decrease, even accounting for the slight increase in GET and such. Of course the best sample pools came from full guild shares, and comparing the data. Good 'ol Stat Crunch is a remarkable tool, as is several degrees in computer science and business.

    When they previous content update went through, I was supportive of the change, until I had enough data to run the numbers.
  • Vohbo
    332 posts Member
    Indeed Nikoms, that is the complete opposite of how I see it.
    Our point is not that Free to play cannot advance in the game, but that the content rather than allow us to gradually close the gap, it instead widens it ever further. Until the start of TB, free to play could gradually catch up by playing Tall, while whales went Tall and then Wide, ending up with a very versatile roster, so they always had many options.

    Since TB and now the Sith Raid, only being very wide is rewarded in an extremely unequal way, although those players that are free to play put in just as much (or more) effort, we just cannot help but fall ever further behind because rewards at the lower tiers are dramatically uneven with higher tiers and do not so much effort, but having assets (and to a large degree: switching guilds and ditching your friends for progress).

    Look at for example what you get for winning a TW at lower tiers, and losing a TW at higher tiers. That should ring some bells.
    Then look at the absolutely incredible difference between the loot for a TB that a lower tier guild can get, versus what a higher tier guild can get. This is almost exclusively about your total GP.
    And now, with this raid there was a tiny bit of hope that we could at least get some stuff to help us along, that hope gets crushed.

    And once again, please don't represent the people that have grievances by telling us that we can eventually get heroic rewards, as that is NOT what we are asking for. We are asking the lower tiers of raids grant gear that is in line with the amount of effort this thoroughly unpleasant raid demands.
  • ChickenFett139
    1484 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Deadheat wrote: »
    “Last week I promised 2-4 pieces of full gear by means of a makegood within the two week window to anyone who completed the Heroic Tier. However, given that we have expedited the fix and are doing it in one week instead, and that there were people in other Tiers affected by the change, we are going to give an even 2 pieces of full gear to everyone who is level 85. Note: Some sub-85 people who completed the Heroic Tier will be granted these rewards through a server fix in a week, it’s just a technical limitation that we can’t provide it at the same time.”

    I believe this should apply to all guilds and their members who have done tier 4 and up. There is no difference between a sub-85 in a guild who can and cannot do heroic. The line drawn between those who gets the gear is arbitrary at best and outright insulting at worst. As a lvl 84 in a guild who do tier 4s as often as possible, I should be eligible for those gear pieces. I do as much, if not more damage than my lvl 85 co-members. Lvl 85 is not a good line to draw in this instance.

    How many accounts do you own to post the exact same message with different names and on separate occasions within threads and including starting their own thread?
    Post edited by ChickenFett139 on
  • Nikoms565
    10967 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Vohbo wrote: »
    Indeed Nikoms, that is the complete opposite of how I see it.
    Our point is not that Free to play cannot advance in the game, but that the content rather than allow us to gradually close the gap, it instead widens it ever further. Until the start of TB, free to play could gradually catch up by playing Tall, while whales went Tall and then Wide, ending up with a very versatile roster, so they always had many options.

    Since TB and now the Sith Raid, only being very wide is rewarded in an extremely unequal way, although those players that are free to play put in just as much (or more) effort, we just cannot help but fall ever further behind because rewards at the lower tiers are dramatically uneven with higher tiers and do not so much effort, but having assets (and to a large degree: switching guilds and ditching your friends for progress).

    Look at for example what you get for winning a TW at lower tiers, and losing a TW at higher tiers. That should ring some bells.
    Then look at the absolutely incredible difference between the loot for a TB that a lower tier guild can get, versus what a higher tier guild can get. This is almost exclusively about your total GP.
    And now, with this raid there was a tiny bit of hope that we could at least get some stuff to help us along, that hope gets crushed.

    And once again, please don't represent the people that have grievances by telling us that we can eventually get heroic rewards, as that is NOT what we are asking for. We are asking the lower tiers of raids grant gear that is in line with the amount of effort this thoroughly unpleasant raid demands.

    I am not "representing" anyone - and what you are asking for is the same thing everyone (even those doing heroic) is asking for, which is rewards that are commensurate with the effort and roster required.

    As far as the whales vs. f2p issues and the higher GP guilds compared to lower GP guilds and the rewards, we're talking in circles. Why do you feel the need to "catch up"? Or be on the same level as someone who has either played the game a year or two longer than you or has paid more money than you? Just because you know they exist? You don't compete against them in any meaningful way. You play to progress against the game itself - even if the progression is slower than you'd prefer. The only possible exception is that you have people in you arena shard and fleet arena that have paid - and that advantage is exactly what they paid for.

    And the fact that you don't see this as a very friendly freemium game suggests that you don't play many freemium games.

    I think we are clearly done with this line of thinking, as we simply disagree.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Dk_rek
    3124 posts Member
    Dk_rek wrote: »
    Congrats to the .01 % of players who benefit from this.

    By losing GET the people maxxing t4/t5 who over time could have earned enough currency to unlock the GET characters that "will probably be needed for Jedi Luke" have to go back to "do I get shards or Jedi Luke" so again Gratz .01% you get free G12 so you will obviously have the unlock characters for Jedi Luke and you get Traya... This may sound like a Jealous Rant but I'm concerned over the Power Gap that just keeps getting bigger and bigger

    I wonder if you whales will keep spending once the gap is so wide between you and everyone else there really won't be any reason to spend anymore...other than 'lookie what I got" cause people who can beat you will be in your shard chat and everyone else could not possibly beat you.. Are you really going to keep whaling when there is no reason too ???? If your not spending there's no game and I won't have any CG nonsense to read about in the forum...

    If you fully plan to keep whaling even where there is no one left in the universe who can possibly challenge you...then please do so and enjoy

    .01%.... that's funny. There's a LARGE number of people that got the freebie today.

    .

    This is amazing you literally cannot understand what people are saying... Where exactly do you see me complaining about a free gear handout ??? How can you write out a 3 paragraph reply and not know what your replying too.
    scuba wrote: »
    Little off topic but i keep seeing it stated these changes only hurt/benefited elite guilds. There is currently over 200 guilds completing the Heroic Sith Raid (I am sure it is more but leadboard only goes to 200), I am not sure how many active guilds but 200+ doesn't sound very elite to me.

    200 out of x,xxx,xxx.. concept not hard well ... obviously it is
  • Dk_rek
    3124 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Jeric wrote: »
    MisterZer0 wrote: »
    So I take it whales cried that others would get rewards that could help f2p players actually advance at a decent pace. I for one understand ppl that p2p should be doing better than f2p. But some f2p guilds weren't downing heroic AAT for a year launch compared to p2p guilds clearing it weeks after launch. That's messed up.

    Also evening raid rewards throughout an entire guild that's working together isnt wrong. It's the spirit of teamwork and cooperation.

    Things need to get fixed before all that's left are whales and I doubt the whales will stay long when they can no longer feel like God's compared to normal ppl.

    Bc we'll whales are whales in games in general bc they suck at life and need to feel powerful somewhere...

    Over 2 years I like many have paid about the equivalent to a wow supscription but refuse to pay more when it requires the equivalent to a car payment to actually keep up... They almost had me paying again but not when they bow to the whales again. Just my opinion I never read what others said.

    I love that last line because it says so much about your personality.

    same
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Little off topic but i keep seeing it stated these changes only hurt/benefited elite guilds. There is currently over 200 guilds completing the Heroic Sith Raid (I am sure it is more but leadboard only goes to 200), I am not sure how many active guilds but 200+ doesn't sound very elite to me.

    Assuming only 500k active players, those 200 guilds would only represent ~2% of the population. What's your definition of elite? 0.5%? 0.000000001%?

    Isn't the generally accepted 'whale' population around 2%?

    This argument is pointless without knowing the actual number completing heroic. We only know it's at least 200.

    completing heroic <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< guilds players not completing heroic
    dear lord
  • Nikoms565
    10967 posts Member
    Dk_rek wrote: »
    Dk_rek wrote: »
    Congrats to the .01 % of players who benefit from this.

    By losing GET the people maxxing t4/t5 who over time could have earned enough currency to unlock the GET characters that "will probably be needed for Jedi Luke" have to go back to "do I get shards or Jedi Luke" so again Gratz .01% you get free G12 so you will obviously have the unlock characters for Jedi Luke and you get Traya... This may sound like a Jealous Rant but I'm concerned over the Power Gap that just keeps getting bigger and bigger

    I wonder if you whales will keep spending once the gap is so wide between you and everyone else there really won't be any reason to spend anymore...other than 'lookie what I got" cause people who can beat you will be in your shard chat and everyone else could not possibly beat you.. Are you really going to keep whaling when there is no reason too ???? If your not spending there's no game and I won't have any CG nonsense to read about in the forum...

    If you fully plan to keep whaling even where there is no one left in the universe who can possibly challenge you...then please do so and enjoy

    .01%.... that's funny. There's a LARGE number of people that got the freebie today.

    .

    This is amazing you literally cannot understand what people are saying... Where exactly do you see me complaining about a free gear handout ??? How can you write out a 3 paragraph reply and not know what your replying too.
    scuba wrote: »
    Little off topic but i keep seeing it stated these changes only hurt/benefited elite guilds. There is currently over 200 guilds completing the Heroic Sith Raid (I am sure it is more but leadboard only goes to 200), I am not sure how many active guilds but 200+ doesn't sound very elite to me.

    200 out of x,xxx,xxx.. concept not hard well ... obviously it is

    First off, it's not 200 - it's 200 at the very least...we have no idea how many guilds are completing heroic raids. But we do know the number is 200 or greater. It could be significantly greater.

    We also have no idea what the total number of guilds in the game is. swgoh.gg lists about 2000 - but again, we have no idea. I just had someone post in our guild chat that a guild with a GP of 115million just completed their first heroic. The top 400 guilds on swgoh.gg all have GPs higher than that - that's the top 25%. Are they all completing heroic sith raids? Maybe not. But 25% is a lot higher than .01%.

    Any you know what? We still have absolutely no idea. Do I honestly think 25% of guilds are completing Heroic Sith Raids? Of course not. But I also don't think it's anywhere near the .01% you seem to claim....with absolutely no actual data to back it up. It's a guess - that's all. And not one that is educated with any actual facts.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
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