Sith raid - fatigue

Replies

  • TVF
    25693 posts Member
    They're lucky.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • We lost another long term player today. He moved to a casual, younger guild to help them with HAAT. He lost all interest in the Sith raid after 4or 5 back to back runs.
  • Pseudot
    102 posts Member
    Typical of the direction gaming has taken in general. Everyone expects to be able to 'auto' it, or expects everything to be easy. Make something that actually requires a large amount of thought, strategy, and teamwork, and everyone starts complaining.

    Some of us saw the challenge, tested various teams until we found what worked, then recruited players with the requisite teams into our guilds and have refined the process with each successive run of the raid. Once you put in the effort, the t7 is easily completed in a couple hours. The Merc guild that I take part in managed it in about 90 minutes.

    There is no problem with this raid, there is only a problem with players who feel entitled and players who feel they should take part in end-game content on their non-endgame accounts.

    Bascially - Git Gud, stop whining
  • Jeric
    270 posts Member
    The design of the raid is fine. The only thing I wasn't happy about had to do with CG communication, not the design of the STR. I have another reason to work on comps and toons I otherwise would never have. Each phase has a unique mechanic that needs to be mastered to maximize your damage.

    It's plenty fun if you are on the right tier.
  • TVF
    25693 posts Member
    Jeric wrote: »
    I have another reason to work on comps and toons I otherwise would never have.
    Today I got a single Tusken Shaman shard from GW. I was so happy! :smiley:
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Range1974 wrote: »
    We lost another long term player today. He moved to a casual, younger guild to help them with HAAT. He lost all interest in the Sith raid after 4or 5 back to back runs.

    That's on guild leadership for running that many back to back. drop a tier. go casual yourself.
  • Jedi_of_Oz
    547 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Pseudot wrote: »
    Typical of the direction gaming has taken in general. Everyone expects to be able to 'auto' it, or expects everything to be easy. Make something that actually requires a large amount of thought, strategy, and teamwork, and everyone starts complaining.

    Some of us saw the challenge, tested various teams until we found what worked, then recruited players with the requisite teams into our guilds and have refined the process with each successive run of the raid. Once you put in the effort, the t7 is easily completed in a couple hours. The Merc guild that I take part in managed it in about 90 minutes.

    There is no problem with this raid, there is only a problem with players who feel entitled and players who feel they should take part in end-game content on their non-endgame accounts.

    Bascially - Git Gud, stop whining

    Telling players to 'git gud' is oversimplifying the problem. T6 and below is mindnumbingly boring.

    Thankfully my guild only needed to do T6 a few times before transitioning up. But from my experience, each successive T6 took longer than the last because of the increasing disengagement from participation with each raid.

    The problems are:
    - (dismal) reward for relative for relative effort
    - damage required to overcome the raid is too high
    - limit of 5 battles per refresh

    I get that the developers want increasingly better squads developed and players to hone their raid craft prior to attempting higher tiers, but it takes too much time to achieve these requirements while having to battle what is fundamentally a poorly designed raid.

  • Charzypants
    248 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    I dont see why they just dont make the health of t6 the same as heroic and then scale down appropriately. That would solve a lot of the problems people are having with this raid.
  • I think the devs are expressly forbidden from commenting on this, and a handful of other topics. You know they've read it. As long as the cash keeps rolling in, nothing needs fixing.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    I dont see why they just dont make the health of t6 the same as heroic and then scale down appropriately. That would solve a lot of the problems people are having with this raid.

    Same, it has 3.5x the health heroic has.
  • I am at the point of not starting this raid for my guild. Not fun. Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing. Zeta Nihlus does nothing again add the same character.
  • TVF
    25693 posts Member
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • It is false in a literal sense, as obviously some things do work. But if you are able to use common sense and figure out the point he is making, he is actually correct. Almost all debuffs are resisted, protection gets bypassed, buffs get stolen. I feel the same way, most of my characters skills are just useless.
  • I am enjoying Traya’s 35 lightsaber tosses chain attacks. It makes the day go by all the faster knowing her juggling act is a fan favorite to watch as my characters stand by helplessly watching their health drain from chain attacks. They were quick to Nerf STH but when their own NPC is acting up its Yawn, WAI.
  • TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.
  • t0neg0d wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.

    Just cuz, what heroic squad/s don’t work on lower tiers ?
  • t0neg0d wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.

    Just cuz, what heroic squad/s don’t work on lower tiers ?

    Baze/clones -this one simply does not perform on lower tier STR
    Thrawn L troopers w/ magma - doesn't have same impact on phase 1 as other teams using DT.

    There are a number of others that don't perform as well as unconventional setups when running lower tiers.
  • t0neg0d wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.

    Just cuz, what heroic squad/s don’t work on lower tiers ?

    Baze/clones -this one simply does not perform on lower tier STR
    Thrawn L troopers w/ magma - doesn't have same impact on phase 1 as other teams using DT.

    There are a number of others that don't perform as well as unconventional setups when running lower tiers.

    That baze clone one has me stumped, doesn’t do jack lol, However , thrawn lead magma death shore and krennic works quite well in p1 . Unless there is a different comp you are referring to?
  • CCyrilS
    4902 posts Member
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.

    Just cuz, what heroic squad/s don’t work on lower tiers ?

    Baze/clones -this one simply does not perform on lower tier STR
    Thrawn L troopers w/ magma - doesn't have same impact on phase 1 as other teams using DT.

    There are a number of others that don't perform as well as unconventional setups when running lower tiers.

    I've gotten 5m p1/2 using Thrawn and troopers with visas on T4. Seems pretty good to me. But I'm also one of those lower tiered **** who probably doesn't know what he's talking about.
  • TVF
    25693 posts Member
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.

    Ah I see you didn't read the OP. That explains it.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • MKim
    2 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Since there are 100 - 150M GP Guilds that clear the Heroic sisth event in real life, sisth failed guilds with similar size will not receive new members over 2M GP. If you are a 2M GP user, where would you go? Sisth Success Guild? Or a failed guild?

    The fatigue of the sisth raid that many people appeal is because all 50 people have to work with enthusiasm to clear it. We feel frustrated when there is something that can not be achieved even if I am only working hard. In the case of old Guilds, there are various people gathered even if GP is similar. Some people are lightweight but steady, while others have worked hard for a short period of time. All of these people have different attitudes towards sisth raid. You can relax as you always do, or feel frustrated after trying hard.

    A realistic way would be to collect people with similar tastes. The easiest way is to join in such a guild. However, most sisth success guilds do not want free riding, so they will strictly require more than average guild members (+ 200M GP, JTR, zNS, DT + laid Han, ready etc ..). An alternate method is to form a federation with a group of similar sized GPs (80-120M?) Guilds. The guild members are reorganized into the level 1 (ready to sisth), level 2 (preparing sisth), and level 3 (hating sisth) leagues. In fact, in the case of united guilds operating in such a way, the sisth is now clear up to the level 2 division at this point.

    Everyone wants to go to the Level 1 division league? Based on the thorough laid clear contributions (this game kindly tells you the scores from 1st to 50th). It is less than people who have a big complaint when the league between the league is settled. (Those who like disgruntled free rides go to other guilds for free ride). Hero laid reward seems to be worth it because it is really sweet.
  • t0neg0d wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.

    Just cuz, what heroic squad/s don’t work on lower tiers ?

    Baze/clones -this one simply does not perform on lower tier STR
    Thrawn L troopers w/ magma - doesn't have same impact on phase 1 as other teams using DT.

    There are a number of others that don't perform as well as unconventional setups when running lower tiers.

    Chex mix is also pointless below heroic.

    This is why they need to lower the health of the lower tier raids.
  • t0neg0d
    616 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.

    Just cuz, what heroic squad/s don’t work on lower tiers ?

    Baze/clones -this one simply does not perform on lower tier STR
    Thrawn L troopers w/ magma - doesn't have same impact on phase 1 as other teams using DT.

    There are a number of others that don't perform as well as unconventional setups when running lower tiers.

    I've gotten 5m p1/2 using Thrawn and troopers with visas on T4. Seems pretty good to me. But I'm also one of those lower tiered **** who probably doesn't know what he's talking about.

    I've gotten great scores w/ them too... not specifically w/ magma... Which is the trooper of choice for heroic phase 1 supposedly. I score higher w/ snow trooper. Buuuut... hey, there it is
  • t0neg0d
    616 posts Member
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.

    Just cuz, what heroic squad/s don’t work on lower tiers ?

    Baze/clones -this one simply does not perform on lower tier STR
    Thrawn L troopers w/ magma - doesn't have same impact on phase 1 as other teams using DT.

    There are a number of others that don't perform as well as unconventional setups when running lower tiers.

    Chex mix is also pointless below heroic.

    This is why they need to lower the health of the lower tier raids.

    Yep.. had the same issue with this one
  • t0neg0d
    616 posts Member
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.

    Just cuz, what heroic squad/s don’t work on lower tiers ?

    Baze/clones -this one simply does not perform on lower tier STR
    Thrawn L troopers w/ magma - doesn't have same impact on phase 1 as other teams using DT.

    There are a number of others that don't perform as well as unconventional setups when running lower tiers.

    That baze clone one has me stumped, doesn’t do jack lol, However , thrawn lead magma death shore and krennic works quite well in p1 . Unless there is a different comp you are referring to?

    It does work well... but not as well as dropping magma on lower tiers. Even w/ deathmark, he ends up taking 3 turn before feeding enough TM to nihilus to go again... sometimes you get lucky enough to have 2 other team members go to get all 5 shots in, that you would get w/o him.

    At the end of the attempt, you end up scoring higher using snow.

    Don't believe me? Try it next time.
  • t0neg0d wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.

    Just cuz, what heroic squad/s don’t work on lower tiers ?

    Baze/clones -this one simply does not perform on lower tier STR
    Thrawn L troopers w/ magma - doesn't have same impact on phase 1 as other teams using DT.

    There are a number of others that don't perform as well as unconventional setups when running lower tiers.

    That baze clone one has me stumped, doesn’t do jack lol, However , thrawn lead magma death shore and krennic works quite well in p1 . Unless there is a different comp you are referring to?

    It does work well... but not as well as dropping magma on lower tiers. Even w/ deathmark, he ends up taking 3 turn before feeding enough TM to nihilus to go again... sometimes you get lucky enough to have 2 other team members go to get all 5 shots in, that you would get w/o him.

    At the end of the attempt, you end up scoring higher using snow.

    Don't believe me? Try it next time.

    Oh def worth a try, seems odd that magmas constant double tap would be better replaced by snow tho. I mean magma goes nearly instantly , haven’t counted however it seems that his turns are enough to counteract a much slower hitting snow, even tho snow hits much harder.
  • CCyrilS
    4902 posts Member
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.

    Just cuz, what heroic squad/s don’t work on lower tiers ?

    Baze/clones -this one simply does not perform on lower tier STR
    Thrawn L troopers w/ magma - doesn't have same impact on phase 1 as other teams using DT.

    There are a number of others that don't perform as well as unconventional setups when running lower tiers.

    That baze clone one has me stumped, doesn’t do jack lol, However , thrawn lead magma death shore and krennic works quite well in p1 . Unless there is a different comp you are referring to?

    It does work well... but not as well as dropping magma on lower tiers. Even w/ deathmark, he ends up taking 3 turn before feeding enough TM to nihilus to go again... sometimes you get lucky enough to have 2 other team members go to get all 5 shots in, that you would get w/o him.

    At the end of the attempt, you end up scoring higher using snow.

    Don't believe me? Try it next time.

    3? I get like 6 magma turns. Add visas for assists and snow for crit dmg and it works great.
  • t0neg0d wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    zachsmack wrote: »
    Worst part is nothing works. Zeta anything does nothing.

    This is demonstrably false. Do some research, learn what works.

    Nothing really works that well... the raid was designed to enforce this. and... last i heard, you said your guild was running t4. Maybe this topic is a bit over your current experience to be shelling out advice like you know what your talking about?

    Some of the teams used on heroic do NOT work on lower tiers... at least not as effectively as teams that do NOT work well in heroic.

    For once... for the love of god... quit posting for the sake of posting.

    Just cuz, what heroic squad/s don’t work on lower tiers ?

    Baze/clones -this one simply does not perform on lower tier STR
    Thrawn L troopers w/ magma - doesn't have same impact on phase 1 as other teams using DT.

    There are a number of others that don't perform as well as unconventional setups when running lower tiers.

    Chex mix is also pointless below heroic.

    This is why they need to lower the health of the lower tier raids.

    Ha! Happened to me too. In raw numbers, I scored marginally above half on T6 what I can score in Heroic.

    Coupled with the fact that T6 requires significantly more health to overcome than Heroic, this made my effort even more mediocre.

    A well-performed squad tuned for Heroic does not translate into an optimally tuned squad in lower tiers.


  • swgohfan29 wrote: »
    @First_but_66_Order
    you do realise your definition of hard makes STR hard?

    P1: JTR, Thermal detonators, apparently magmatrooper? Farmboy also got some stuff going down but i m not sure how hard it is.
    P2: zzzzPhoniez, SRP Grandmaster Training, NS, FO
    P3: Chex mix
    P4: Nihilus: NS
    Sion: FO
    Traya: Kitchen Sink. No specific strategy. (i guess)


    50% of the annoying stuff you mentioned is completely up to you. The devs dont make you shift mods, or retry the raid. I can tell you that my guild hasnt booted me for not doing so. That stuff is completely up to you whther you want to make it annoying or not.

    I understand what you're saying there SWGOHfan29, but bear in mind the following because outside of the long-time top already L85 players:
    P1: Most players do NOT have JTR
    P2: Most players do NOT have zeta'd squads, or high-rarity Nightsisters/FO
    P3: Most players do NOT have Baze and Chirrut, or even one of them (although more have Chirrut now)
    P4: As per P2 most players don't have high-rarity geared/levelled Night-sisters that can survive, and again most don't have high-rarity FO

    In addition people have spent so much time/effort/gear/energy in gearing up certain squads and players for useful synergies and tactics across the game, and then this raid makes pretty much all of it useless. Take "Phoenix" for instance, a lot of people worked the hard farm to get them and gear them (remember all those hundreds of Mk.V Stun and Mk.III Carbanti you needed, ugh!) and now you get Phase-1 where not only are you penalised for getting any buffs, but also for using basic abilities, and then just to kick you in the nuts you're also penalised for counter-attacking, so, you go onto guild chat and online and wherever to find some strategy tips and all the posts/videos etc are telling you you should use a JTR squad, or CLS titans, or Chex Mex...which of course you can't get because CLS is 7* access only, and you don't have Baze, and you don't have JTR and who knows when you'll be able to get any of them because....to get CLS you'd need 7* R2 (plus the others) and getting R2 requires a full 7* Empire squad first - and you can't get Palpatine at 7* without 7* rebels or Thrawn at 7* without 7* Phoenis, or Vader at 7* at a guaranteed point as he's mainly a reward rather than farmable, so you have to get 5 7* Empire chars excluding 3 of the ones you'd really want later on - then for a Titans squad for CLS you need 7* Raid Han and 7* General Kenobi, but because you do not have JTR or CLS or Chex Mex etc in your roster getting into a top guild that does both Rancor and HAAT is virtually impossible (I'm in a fun and full guild but we can't even get through P2 of HAAT, not strong enough to even get halfway!) and so CLS is out of the window. So you think JTR instead, ok, so that means I need 5 7* FO (to get BB8), then I have to complete the entire Cantina levels 1-8 to get on the final 2 nodes Veteran Han+Chewie which if you're lucky and get 1 shard drop every 4 attempts would take a total of 8-months to get to 7* even before you look at gearing and levelling them, along with the necessary 7* Finn & Rey(Scav). So you think Chex Mex instead, ok, so you could try for Chirrut from fleet tokens averaging 5 a day if lucky to get him in 2-months, but if you want Baze you have to finish Light-side Hard 9-C which means level-83 at a minimum plus at least 2-months constant farming (and then gearing and levelling both)...but you also need CLS for that and oh look, can't get that because your guild can't do HAAT...
    ...and that's why lower level players are getting fatigue from this raid: There don't seem to be decent squads to get enough damage to allow a guild to progress (to at least Tier-IV of Sith Raid where the rewards start to become worthwhile) without having loads of guild players with squads/toons that they don't have and either can't get or can't get for at least 1-year etc.

    I'm not against the raid itself, or having a hard new Sith Raid etc., but the mechanics of the Raid exclude most newer or lower level players from having any genuinely useful squads that they can realistically aim to go out and get/farm/etc. - that's the issue! Wanting to make a raid that people can't just win with Phoenix or other long-time established squads is fine, change is good, but if the only squads that can perform well are out of the reach of a majority of players for at least a year then they're gonna get bored/disillusioned/fatigued whatever you want to call it, at least, in my opinion anyway :)
  • TVF
    25693 posts Member
    Well yeah, the raid, especially at the higher tiers, is clearly meant for elder players.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
This discussion has been closed.