Asajj Ventress Limitations

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Ninjah9
810 posts Member
edited May 2018
I am seriously disappointed with the faction description of this character. She should definitely be labeled a sith, and be able to benefit from fighting with sith leaders abilities. This really goes against the canon of the storyline created by George Lucas. General Grievous I understand because he cannot use the force. But there is no legitimate reason not label Ventress a sith, she has held her own against and even bested several noteworthy jedi (including Kenobi, Anakin, Asokha, and Luminara), she can use the force, and was officially Count Dooku's apprentice. It's unfair, and possibly sexist that she isnt given sith attributes. How come male characters like Ezra Bridger and Kanan Jarrus can benefit from 3 factions (Jedi, rebel, and Phoenix) while Ventress is limited to only two. Are you saying only Male characters can have this benefit? Or that female characters all together aren't qualified enough to be a legitimate sith? I am offended by this and would like to see this correction made, or I will seriously consider getting the #metoo movement up in here, and file some official complaints. I expect better from Disney, and Lucasfilm!

Replies

  • APX_919
    2210 posts Member
    Have I slipped into a timewarp and it's 2016/2017 again? The discussion has been settled, no Sith tag for Ventress as per CG and Disney.
    "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...mostly"
  • Darthpedro
    1175 posts Member
    This made me laugh so hard
  • TVF
    16229 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    I'm often labeled an SJW and even I'm not sure the OP is serious.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Ninjah9 wrote: »
    I am seriously disappointed with the faction description of this character. She should definitely be labeled a sith, and be able to benefit from fighting with sith leaders abilities. This really goes against the canon of the storyline created by George Lucas. General Grievous I understand because he cannot use the force. But there is no legitimate reason not label Ventress a sith, she has held her own against and even bested several noteworthy jedi (including Kenobi, Anakin, Asokha, and Luminara), she can use the force, and was officially Count Dooku's apprentice. It's unfair, and possibly sexist that she isnt given sith attributes. How come male characters like Ezra Bridger and Kanan Jarrus can benefit from 3 factions (Jedi, rebel, and Phoenix) while Ventress is limited to only two. Are you saying only Male characters can have this benefit? Or that female characters all together aren't qualified enough to be a legitimate sith? I am offended by this and would like to see this correction made, or I will seriously consider getting the #metoo movement up in here, and file some official complaints. I expect better from Disney, and Lucasfilm!

    To quote Cole Oyl, “You owe CG an apology”.

    Good luck in life.
  • Ninjah9 wrote: »
    Or that female characters all together aren't qualified enough to be a legitimate sith? I

    I guess we've forgotten about the most powerful toon in the game at the moment
  • Empiric1
    346 posts Member
    1/10

    The 1 point is for creating a new account and setting Ventress picture as an Avatar.
  • Ninjah9 wrote: »
    I am seriously disappointed with the faction description of this character. She should definitely be labeled a sith, and be able to benefit from fighting with sith leaders abilities. This really goes against the canon of the storyline created by George Lucas. General Grievous I understand because he cannot use the force. But there is no legitimate reason not label Ventress a sith, she has held her own against and even bested several noteworthy jedi (including Kenobi, Anakin, Asokha, and Luminara), she can use the force, and was officially Count Dooku's apprentice. It's unfair, and possibly sexist that she isnt given sith attributes. How come male characters like Ezra Bridger and Kanan Jarrus can benefit from 3 factions (Jedi, rebel, and Phoenix) while Ventress is limited to only two. Are you saying only Male characters can have this benefit? Or that female characters all together aren't qualified enough to be a legitimate sith? I am offended by this and would like to see this correction made, or I will seriously consider getting the #metoo movement up in here, and file some official complaints. I expect better from Disney, and Lucasfilm!

    Is what it is. Deal with it.
  • I agree that while it's obvious it's also obvious that cg does things as they want.
  • Empiric1
    346 posts Member
    Why is everyone not seeing this is a troll post?

    Also she wasn't a sith, she was a dark jedi /sith acolyte, she wasn't even a secret apprentice, she didn't have the darth title and Dooku just used her as an assassin. After Clone Wars she became even more distant from the Jedi/Sith. She also wasn't of the sith race, she literally had 0 claims to calling herself a sith (not that she wanted to any way).

    You can't just call yourself a sith just because you have a red lightsaber and some force powers, it's not as simple as that, read the Rule of Two (Darth Bane's novels)
  • Sacull_Kinslayer
    797 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    And the rule of 2 that was violated by just about every Sith. Vader, dooku, even sidious. She was the Sith Tyrannus's apprentice. Trained in the Sith arts. By a Sith. Ahsoka was an apprentice. To a Jedi. Trained in the Jedi arts. By a Jedi. And she has the Jedi tag. Simple.
  • But it is a pointless argument. They do as they do.
  • This is clearly a troll post but I'm going in anyways. She doesn't have a sith tag because she was betrayed by Dooku and resented the sith. Sure she was a sith Apprentice but in the end she cut her ties with the sith.
  • They do as they do.

    Of course. As they can. And as you and I can. We all do what we do.


    And yes, I do think the post was tongue-in-cheek to say the least. All good fun :smiley:

  • TVF
    16229 posts Member
    Empiric1 wrote: »
    Why is everyone not seeing this is a troll post?

    Because, amazing as it seems, there are plenty of equally baffling posts here where people are 100% serious.

    I put odds on parody at 50%.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Stokat
    481 posts Member
    I think that all First Order characters should get empire tags because they are also evil dictators with big star ships. It’s unfair that they don’t.
  • Kyno
    21675 posts Moderator
    Many characters in game have tags based on where they are "at that moment" . As the deva have stated they are a snap shot of that person in time and would be tagged "how they would identify at that moment".

    All characters go through multiple levels of approvals from many representatives of all the associated organizations. It's not like this went out without anyone knowing.
  • Empiric1
    346 posts Member
    And the rule of 2 that was violated by just about every Sith. Vader, dooku, even sidious. She was the Sith Tyrannus's apprentice. Trained in the Sith arts. By a Sith. Ahsoka was an apprentice. To a Jedi. Trained in the Jedi arts. By a Jedi. And she has the Jedi tag. Simple.

    Sorry I don't agree. The SITH always had minions to do their bidding, you're not going to take over the galaxy with just 2 people ( even Palpatine and Plagueis), Ahsoka was an OFFICIAL member of the jedi temple, even a jedi knight officially. Ventress was at best Dooku's little assassin/servant and dirty secret that he thought Palpatine didn't know about, she was never officially recognised by Palpatine who was the only sith lord present at her time.
  • WOOOOOOOOOO
    that’s a good one.
  • And the rule of 2 that was violated by just about every Sith. Vader, dooku, even sidious. She was the Sith Tyrannus's apprentice. Trained in the Sith arts. By a Sith. Ahsoka was an apprentice. To a Jedi. Trained in the Jedi arts. By a Jedi. And she has the Jedi tag. Simple.

    Ahsoka Tano (Fulcrum) doesn't have the Jedi tag. Because she severed ties with the Jedi. The Ventress in-game was at the time that (as others have said) she had already severed ties with the Sith. So no Sith tag. Simple.
    "Don't take yourself so serious; it's a game, have fun!" • https://swgoh.gg/u/yerffcaasi/
  • YaeVizsla
    3057 posts Member
    Whether or not Ventress was ever Sith is... debatable. However, characters are snapshots. At one point, Ventress was a Jedi, but the Ventress we have is not a Jedi.

    It's not undreasonable that the snapshot we have is of Ventress between Dooku's betrayal and the assault on Dathomir.

    Also, tags are mechanical decision, not just lore. Ventress is mechanically made to integrate with the Nightsisters, but not the Sith. Asajj is already the best leader for a potent faction. Turn her into a bridge lead into one of the most powerful factions in the game and it could easily get out of hand.
    Still not a he.
  • CPace
    149 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Ninjah9 wrote: »
    I am seriously disappointed with the faction description of this character. She should definitely be labeled a sith, and be able to benefit from fighting with sith leaders abilities. This really goes against the canon of the storyline created by George Lucas. General Grievous I understand because he cannot use the force. But there is no legitimate reason not label Ventress a sith, she has held her own against and even bested several noteworthy jedi (including Kenobi, Anakin, Asokha, and Luminara), she can use the force, and was officially Count Dooku's apprentice. It's unfair, and possibly sexist that she isnt given sith attributes. How come male characters like Ezra Bridger and Kanan Jarrus can benefit from 3 factions (Jedi, rebel, and Phoenix) while Ventress is limited to only two. Are you saying only Male characters can have this benefit? Or that female characters all together aren't qualified enough to be a legitimate sith? I am offended by this and would like to see this correction made, or I will seriously consider getting the #metoo movement up in here, and file some official complaints. I expect better from Disney, and Lucasfilm!

    She is more nightsister than sith bruv. Look at ATF. She can use the force and they don't have her labeled as sith. Or even JTR and it's even in her title as well but they dont have her role as a Jedi
  • Ninjah9
    810 posts Member
    The whole snapshot explanation is weak, I guarantee you there will never be another Ventress toon. Ventress absolutely is a sith, the comparison to Ashoka is spot on. And Ashoka fulcrum should be listed as a jedi too. My thought is the sith/jedi specials are shared because of light/dark powers of the force. So if they use the light/dark side of force they should benefit from those abilities. My main point is it makes characters more versatile and is justified by canon.And increases strong squad variation, making the game more fun. Another contradiction with Jarrus and Ezra is they have the jedi tag, not because they are officially part of the jedi order but because they utilize the force. Darth Maul and Savage disconnected from their sith masters, and they are still with. I think it would be cool if they benefited from being teamed up with the nightsisters.
  • Ninjah9
    810 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    @stokat: nice try, but you're out of your depth here. Save that level of sarcasm for pre-school

    @empiric1: She was recognized by palpatine/sidious. She was recognized as being to powerful a sith, and needed to be eliminated so her and Dooku did not contest his role as the most powerful sith in the galaxy. Aka she was recognized as a Sith.
  • Ninjah9 wrote: »
    @stokat: nice try, but you're out of your depth here. Save that level of sarcasm for pre-school

    @empiric1: She was recognized by palpatine/sidious. She was recognized as being to powerful a sith, and needed to be eliminated so her and Dooku did not contest his role as the most powerful sith in the galaxy. Aka she was recognized as a Sith.

    Lol
  • Oeren
    8 posts Member
    looks like we need a SJW pleasing meta with pwnage abilities..... OR ELSE...
    roflmao
  • YaeVizsla
    3057 posts Member
    In design, you need rules. Even if you deviate from them sometimes. The snapshot rule provides some measure of consistency. Without it, things get really weird, and tags have to be reconsidered every time a new anything comes out that adds to the lore of individual characters.

    If characters were not snapshots...

    Wedge, K2-SO, Sabine, Cody, and every Han would be Empire. And all of the Hans plus Cody would be Imperial Troopers.

    Asajj, Dooku, and Vader would be Jedi.

    Most of the Empire leaders would be Galactic Republic.

    Now, as to the notion that all dark side users should be Sith and all light side users should be Jedi? No. No, that's not it at all, and we just had an entire movie on why that notion is wrong. Also, it would mean the Nightsisters would be tagged both Jedi and Sith, because they draw on both sides of the Force, favoring neither.

    "Jedi" and "Sith" are religions. When Ahsoka leaves the Jedi Order, she abandons that faith, though she takes the training and some of the philosophy. The Nightsisters and Kylo have little to do with either of those religious orders. Visas as she appears in KOTOR has turned her back on both of them.

    Faction segregation is important to making a diverse game. Break down those walls too much, and you go from multiple viable factions to a few titan-scale toons that are viable.
    Still not a he.
  • Was she ever a sith in the show?

    No

    Done
  • Ninjah9
    810 posts Member
    She was a sith in the show, otherwise Palpatine never would have feared her abilities as a "sith apprentice". That's covered, arguing whether or not she's a sith is just silly. Even the creators of the game dont argue she's a sith, they just say she wasn't a sith during her "snapshot" which the toon is based around.

    Snapshots of characters is fine, like the multiple Han Solo's. I personally would like to see more Kenobi's (padawan, jedi knight, etc). The problem I have with the snapshot excuse for why Ventress isn't given a sith tag, is that I guarantee this will be the only Ventress toon they make. And since it's the only one, I think she should have the sith tag.
  • YaeVizsla
    3057 posts Member
    How Sidious chose to interpret Dooku and Ventress' relationship does not affect what that relationship was and was not.

    Also, you cannot guarantee anything.

    Rex eventually joins the Rebellion, and odds of a Rebel rex are not great. That's not a reason to put the Rebel tag on Rex.
    Still not a he.
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