Star Wars: The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

Replies

  • Boo
    3432 posts Member
    Now I am sharing this - just for fun.

  • ElleMadara
    1017 posts Member
    NicWester wrote: »
    Easier way to shut down the argument:
    "Yeah, sure, she's a Mary Sue. But so was Luke, Gilgamesh, Odysseus, and Liu Bei. Who cares? Go away."

    Honest reply. I love how people put Luke on an equal scale and call him a Mary Sue but not Rey. The hypocrisy is strong in this thread.

    Luke is not a Mary Sue, dude get your things together
  • swgohfan29
    1146 posts Member
    A Mary Sue (MS)(TIL that male Mary Sues are called Gary Stus. I will not care for this post.) is a idealized and seemingly perfect character.

    Both Rey R, Anakin A and Luke L demonstrate Mary Sue characteristics which are generally not answered very well. Anakin was a Huge MS up till he became a whiny ****, which is subjectively worse.
    ANH
    L is on a desert planet, where he shot rats and built droids. L comes across a wise old man, who gives him a LIGHTSABER. L asserts he has piloting skills (Good Stuff), before shooting down trained TIE pilots on his first time on space. L then goes to the death star, rescues Leia and joins the rebels. He gets on a X-Wing and knows how to use it (More Good Stuff). In fact, he is so good at using it he beats trained Rebel pilots in surviving and Evades the entire Imperial Fleet in that area. He blows up the DS (a one in a millon shot). (Second Time in space and First time on a X Wing.
    TFA
    R is on a desert planet, where she stick-fighted and scavenged ships. R asserts she has piloting skills, and evades trained FO pilots (tho its clear from her quadjumper confidence that she has at least flowm before). R than meets a wise old lady who gives her a lightsaber. She refuses and wants to go back to desert planet. She is captured by Kylo Ren and learns how to use Mind Tricks. She escapes out of the base and draws with a injured guy with a lightsaber. She then takes off to find L.

    Weaknesses: (ANH plus ESB vs TFA plus TLJ)

    L: Gets Hand cut off by a guy who apparently did not want to kill him, Rushes in to save a friend w/o being careful. He s also a little naiive


    R: She s Lazy enough to wait on her own planet forever. She can be heavily tempted by the Dark Side. She stupidly goes into Snoke s ship alone (WHY), Rushes at snoke randomly without thinking: Hey hey, maybe shoulsnt rush at guy who looks all powerful in chair?


    Strengths

    R (Explaination): Melee Fighting (Supported by early stick fight) Ship Mechanics(Supported by Ship Scavenging) Pilotry (Unknown, but its reasonably clear that she has flown in space before she uses the Falcon) The Force (The Force). Beats Trained Non- Force Users (The Force) Draws Kylo (Getting shot by a bowcaster tends to limit your fighting ability)Evasion Tatics (Unknown)

    L (Explanation): Blasters (The rats) Mechanics(Fixes Droid) Pilotry (Unknown, but his landspeeder apparently was made by the same company that made tge X-Wing) The Force (The Force) Beats Trained Non-Force Users (The force) Gunnery (Unknown)
  • Boo
    3432 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    A Mary Sue (MS)(TIL that male Mary Sues are called Gary Stus. I will not care for this post.) is a idealized and seemingly perfect character.

    Both Rey R, Anakin A and Luke L demonstrate Mary Sue characteristics which are generally not answered very well. Anakin was a Huge MS up till he became a whiny ****, which is subjectively worse.
    ANH
    L is on a desert planet, where he shot rats and built droids. L comes across a wise old man, who gives him a LIGHTSABER. L asserts he has piloting skills (Good Stuff), before shooting down trained TIE pilots on his first time on space. L then goes to the death star, rescues Leia and joins the rebels. He gets on a X-Wing and knows how to use it (More Good Stuff). In fact, he is so good at using it he beats trained Rebel pilots in surviving and Evades the entire Imperial Fleet in that area. He blows up the DS (a one in a millon shot). (Second Time in space and First time on a X Wing.
    TFA
    R is on a desert planet, where she stick-fighted and scavenged ships. R asserts she has piloting skills, and evades trained FO pilots (tho its clear from her quadjumper confidence that she has at least flowm before). R than meets a wise old lady who gives her a lightsaber. She refuses and wants to go back to desert planet. She is captured by Kylo Ren and learns how to use Mind Tricks. She escapes out of the base and draws with a injured guy with a lightsaber. She then takes off to find L.

    Weaknesses: (ANH plus ESB vs TFA plus TLJ)

    L: Gets Hand cut off by a guy who apparently did not want to kill him, Rushes in to save a friend w/o being careful. He s also a little naiive


    R: She s Lazy enough to wait on her own planet forever. She can be heavily tempted by the Dark Side. She **** goes into Snoke s ship alone (WHY), Rushes at snoke randomly without thinking: Hey hey, maybe shoulsnt rush at guy who looks all powerful in chair?


    Strengths

    R (Explaination): Melee Fighting (Supported by early stick fight) Ship Mechanics(Supported by Ship Scavenging) Pilotry (Unknown, but its reasonably clear that she has flown in space before she uses the Falcon) The Force (The Force). Beats Trained Non- Force Users (The Force) Draws Kylo (Getting shot by a bowcaster tends to limit your fighting ability)Evasion Tatics (Unknown)

    L (Explanation): Blasters (The rats) Mechanics(Fixes Droid) Pilotry (Unknown, but his landspeeder apparently was made by the same company that made tge X-Wing) The Force (The Force) Beats Trained Non-Force Users (The force) Gunnery (Unknown)

    Wow - what a load of rubbish - A & L are not a "Mary Sue", R is.

    A - his proficiency in the force is explained. He is the force personified - Like Jesus. Force users (particularly those powerful in the force) have certain natural traits, as Qui-Gon explains to Shmi. Such tyhings are seeing things before they happen or quick reflexes. This is why Anakin was naturally gifted at podracing and piloting.

    Anakin was good at repairs having worked in Watto's junk shop taking side projects himself such as building his own pod racer or C3P0.

    However Anakin was not instantly good at everything. He had his failures, impatient, jealous, impulsive and he ultimately fell to the dark side. He also, despite his arrogance in his skills of lightsaber combat (having trained at a very young age and his natural affinity to the force) had his arm cut off. His falling to the darkside meant that he could not resist it, especially once it had him. Only his love for his son was able to bring him back.

    L - Being A's son, shares at least 50% of the force potency of his father - still more than any living force user (save and except his father).

    Luke had those natural skills or traits that Qui-Gon mentioned before. He was a familiar pilot who would bull's eye womp rats in his T-16 -controls obviously similar to an X-wing as they are from the same ship manufacturer (if you had done your home work before posting) and Biggs clearly states his opinion of Luke as the "best bush fighter" and he would do just fine behind the controls of the x-wing. (By the way the T-16 is not Luke's landspeeder - these are completely different crafts).

    With the force guiding his movements (like Anakin during his pod race or Naboo Starfighter) he avoided destruction at the battle of Yavin and that combined with feeling the force directly as guided by Obi Wan, with no distractions as Han took out his pursuers, and Luke's experiencing shooting womp rats he made the shot.

    Luke is also not a "Mary Sue" as he too had his failings, being attacked and bested by a Wampa snow beast and losing his hand to Darth Vader. He even struggled to move the lightsaber into his hand in the Wampa's cave, but just managed to do it. He too was also impatient and impulsive like his father and had his temptations to the dark side.

    If you go forward to TLJ he also had his failings as a Jedi Master and how his character changed to a spiteful old man.

    * Luke also trained with Yoda for many days, possibly even weeks (just think Han and Co. were travelling from the Hoth System to Bespin - without a Hyper drive) He found it difficult moving stones or in the end raising his x-wing...which he failed at. (See Re's comparison below).


    R - Now we take Rey. I'd agree her scavenging skills allowed her to have a knowledge in ship components and repair skills. Her fighting with a stick in completely different from a sword - and if you ever trained in weapons yourself you would know that.

    The only thing she could pilot was a speeder - she hoped to pilot the quadjumper - which could possibly have gotten them away from danger, but not off planet - she had never piloted anything before her amazing and victorious first try in the Falcon.

    She was instantly good at everything she did. going beyond basic repair and force guided actions such as with Luke or Anakin - she could flat out pull objects into her hand, as well as mind trick and resist Kylo's mind probe - indeed reversed the mind probe back onto Kylo.

    She also bested Kylo in lightsaber combat the first time ever wielding a lightsaber - despite the fact Kylo was trained in lightsaber combat his entire life - and Kylo is a Skywalker, at least carrying 25% of Anakin's 100% force potency.

    Rey has never failed and dismissed the darkside with ease. In fact she is drawn into it baths in it and walks away the same chipper self she always is. Rey has no failings!

    Rey's power is not explained. Anakin and by extension Luke are products of the force itself. Rey is just good because suddenly the force decides to balance itself - this makes no sense. If her true equal, as claimed in TLJ, is Kylo Ren - who we know struggles with the light side, then she too would struggle with the dark - there is absolutely nothing of interest to Rey's character.

    * Rey spent only a few days on Ach-to (governed by the conversations at the resistance fleet re: how much fuel they had remaining), she also only got 2 lessons of 3 from Luke. By the end of the movie she was lifting multiple rocks and boulders with ease to save the resistance - she never failed there!

    Her only flaw is that she is too perfect a being to even exist.

    Comparing Anakin or Luke to Rey is like Apples to Oranges - Not the same thing, what so ever.

    For the record, I personally love that Star Wars has a female Jedi lead - its great and I think many fans think the same, because of how well Mara Jade was represented in the old EU.

    What people don't like is the lack of character development, where her power comes from that can break all lore in the galaxy and is ultimately a Mary Sue - she just does anything and everything that calls upon her with easer and does not fail...once.

    That is what people are resisting, nothing to do with gender - just BAD bad story telling.
  • CaptainRex
    2753 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    A Mary Sue (MS)(TIL that male Mary Sues are called Gary Stus. I will not care for this post.) is a idealized and seemingly perfect character.

    Both Rey R, Anakin A and Luke L demonstrate Mary Sue characteristics which are generally not answered very well. Anakin was a Huge MS up till he became a whiny ****, which is subjectively worse.
    ANH
    L is on a desert planet, where he shot rats and built droids. L comes across a wise old man, who gives him a LIGHTSABER. L asserts he has piloting skills (Good Stuff), before shooting down trained TIE pilots on his first time on space. L then goes to the death star, rescues Leia and joins the rebels. He gets on a X-Wing and knows how to use it (More Good Stuff). In fact, he is so good at using it he beats trained Rebel pilots in surviving and Evades the entire Imperial Fleet in that area. He blows up the DS (a one in a millon shot). (Second Time in space and First time on a X Wing.
    TFA
    R is on a desert planet, where she stick-fighted and scavenged ships. R asserts she has piloting skills, and evades trained FO pilots (tho its clear from her quadjumper confidence that she has at least flowm before). R than meets a wise old lady who gives her a lightsaber. She refuses and wants to go back to desert planet. She is captured by Kylo Ren and learns how to use Mind Tricks. She escapes out of the base and draws with a injured guy with a lightsaber. She then takes off to find L.

    Weaknesses: (ANH plus ESB vs TFA plus TLJ)

    L: Gets Hand cut off by a guy who apparently did not want to kill him, Rushes in to save a friend w/o being careful. He s also a little naiive


    R: She s Lazy enough to wait on her own planet forever. She can be heavily tempted by the Dark Side. She **** goes into Snoke s ship alone (WHY), Rushes at snoke randomly without thinking: Hey hey, maybe shoulsnt rush at guy who looks all powerful in chair?


    Strengths

    R (Explaination): Melee Fighting (Supported by early stick fight) Ship Mechanics(Supported by Ship Scavenging) Pilotry (Unknown, but its reasonably clear that she has flown in space before she uses the Falcon) The Force (The Force). Beats Trained Non- Force Users (The Force) Draws Kylo (Getting shot by a bowcaster tends to limit your fighting ability)Evasion Tatics (Unknown)

    L (Explanation): Blasters (The rats) Mechanics(Fixes Droid) Pilotry (Unknown, but his landspeeder apparently was made by the same company that made tge X-Wing) The Force (The Force) Beats Trained Non-Force Users (The force) Gunnery (Unknown)

    Wow - what a load of rubbish - A & L are not a "Mary Sue", R is.

    A - his proficiency in the force is explained. He is the force personified - Like Jesus. Force users (particularly those powerful in the force) have certain natural traits, as Qui-Gon explains to Shmi. Such tyhings are seeing things before they happen or quick reflexes. This is why Anakin was naturally gifted at podracing and piloting.

    Anakin was good at repairs having worked in Watto's junk shop taking side projects himself such as building his own pod racer or C3P0.

    However Anakin was not instantly good at everything. He had his failures, impatient, jealous, impulsive and he ultimately fell to the dark side. He also, despite his arrogance in his skills of lightsaber combat (having trained at a very young age and his natural affinity to the force) had his arm cut off. His falling to the darkside meant that he could not resist it, especially once it had him. Only his love for his son was able to bring him back.

    L - Being A's son, shares at least 50% of the force potency of his father - still more than any living force user (save and except his father).

    Luke had those natural skills or traits that Qui-Gon mentioned before. He was a familiar pilot who would bull's eye womp rats in his T-16 -controls obviously similar to an X-wing as they are from the same ship manufacturer (if you had done your home work before posting) and Biggs clearly states his opinion of Luke as the "best bush fighter" and he would do just fine behind the controls of the x-wing. (By the way the T-16 is not Luke's landspeeder - these are completely different crafts).

    With the force guiding his movements (like Anakin during his pod race or Naboo Starfighter) he avoided destruction at the battle of Yavin and that combined with feeling the force directly as guided by Obi Wan, with no distractions as Han took out his pursuers, and Luke's experiencing shooting womp rats he made the shot.

    Luke is also not a "Mary Sue" as he too had his failings, being attacked and bested by a Wampa snow beast and losing his hand to Darth Vader. He even struggled to move the lightsaber into his hand in the Wampa's cave, but just managed to do it. He too was also impatient and impulsive like his father and had his temptations to the dark side.

    If you go forward to TLJ he also had his failings as a Jedi Master and how his character changed to a spiteful old man.


    R - Now we take Rey. I'd agree her scavenging skills allowed her to have a knowledge in ship components and repair skills. Her fighting with a stick in completely different from a sword - and if you ever trained in weapons yourself you would know that.

    The only thing she could pilot was a speeder - she hoped to pilot the quadjumper - which could possibly have gotten them away from danger, but not off planet - she had never piloted anything before her amazing and victorious first try in the Falcon.

    She was instantly good at everything she did. going beyond basic repair and force guided actions such as with Luke or Anakin - she could flat out pull objects into her hand, as well as mind trick and resist Kylo's mind probe - indeed reversed the mind probe back onto Kylo.

    She also bested Kylo in lightsaber combat the first time ever wielding a lightsaber - despite the fact Kylo was trained in lightsaber combat his entire life - and Kylo is a Skywalker, at least carrying 25% of Anakin's 100% force potency.

    Rey has never failed and dismissed the darkside with ease. In fact she is drawn into it baths in it and walks away the same chipper self she always is. Rey has no failings!

    Rey's power is not explained. Anakin and by extension Luke are products of the force itself. Rey is just good because suddenly the force decides to balance itself - this makes no sense. If her true equal, as claimed in TLJ, is Kylo Ren - who we know struggles with the light side, then she too would struggle with the dark - there is absolutely nothing of interest to Rey's character.

    Her only flaw is that she is too perfect a being to even exist.

    Comparing Anakin or Luke to Rey is like Apples to Oranges - Not the same thing, what so ever.

    giphy.webp
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
  • CaptainRex
    2753 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Boo wrote: »
    Now I am sharing this - just for fun.


    There are so many good Last Jedi rants on Youtube. Not finding nearly as many for Infinity War though...hmm

    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
  • leef
    12639 posts Member
    i feel like this entire thread could be like 2 maybe 3 pages of tl;dr 's
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Boo
    3432 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    i feel like this entire thread could be like 2 maybe 3 pages of tl;dr 's

    tl;dr 's? What's that @leef ?
  • leef
    12639 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    i feel like this entire thread could be like 2 maybe 3 pages of tl;dr 's

    tl;dr 's? What's that @leef ?

    too long, didn't read, multiple of those. Often people use a tl;dr at the end of a rather lengthy post to give a quick summary for lazy readers like myself.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Boo
    3432 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    i feel like this entire thread could be like 2 maybe 3 pages of tl;dr 's

    tl;dr 's? What's that @leef ?

    too long, didn't read, multiple of those. Often people use a tl;dr at the end of a rather lengthy post to give a quick summary for lazy readers like myself.

    aha, gotcha.

    TL;DR: Anakin and Luke are not a Mary Sue like Rey. Trying to compare them is like comparing apples to oranges, due to source of power and differences in character development, yet nothing to do with gender - which a lot of people (feminists) seem to be arguing about.
  • leef
    12639 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    i feel like this entire thread could be like 2 maybe 3 pages of tl;dr 's

    tl;dr 's? What's that leef ?

    too long, didn't read, multiple of those. Often people use a tl;dr at the end of a rather lengthy post to give a quick summary for lazy readers like myself.

    aha, gotcha.

    TL;DR: Anakin and Luke are not a Mary Sue like Rey. Trying to compare them is like comparing apples to oranges, due to source of power and differences in character development, yet nothing to do with gender - which a lot of people (feminists) seem to be arguing about.

    For the record, it was aimed at you specifically, people in general tend to get lenghty when discussing stuff they feel strongly about.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Boo
    3432 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    i feel like this entire thread could be like 2 maybe 3 pages of tl;dr 's

    tl;dr 's? What's that leef ?

    too long, didn't read, multiple of those. Often people use a tl;dr at the end of a rather lengthy post to give a quick summary for lazy readers like myself.

    aha, gotcha.

    TL;DR: Anakin and Luke are not a Mary Sue like Rey. Trying to compare them is like comparing apples to oranges, due to source of power and differences in character development, yet nothing to do with gender - which a lot of people (feminists) seem to be arguing about.

    For the record, it was aimed at you specifically, people in general tend to get lenghty when discussing stuff they feel strongly about.

    I hear you and got the reference to my post, which is why I summarized my post, lol

    I do feel passionately, because this is a franchise I love, and hate to see it, in my view, go down the toilet.
  • JuliusSkywalker
    480 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Can you post the url of the new script for SW Ep. IX here please?
  • Hellsteeth30
    832 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    From the agenda to the MaRey Sue this film had nothing of value to offer. Disney are the worst thing to happen to nearly everything they go near.

    It even made Mark rage quit the entire franchise.

    Oh and Snoke? That was a whole load of nothing, I was anticipating a little bit of lore dump not a literal one. "I am super duper powerf.....oh, the manchild cut me in half. Still that nearly entirely untrained Rey broad holds up well." "Oh well, smell you never."

    Oh and whoever happens to be the continuity person, you need a new job. There are countless instances of continuity not being a thing that would require a full page of rambling.

    This was a total abortion of a film and should be forgotten, like that other film I can't get all the way through (Force Coma).

    Worst. Trilogy. Ever. I've seen better put together fanfic by 5 year olds.

    Oh and why the jeff can Marvel keep churning out at least decent films (at worst)? Yet the god franchise can't......
    Hey, it's still better than MSF
  • JuliusSkywalker
    480 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    From the agenda to the MaRey Sue this film had nothing of value to offer. Disney are the worst thing to happen to nearly everything they go near.

    It even made Mark rage quit the entire franchise.

    Oh and Snoke? That was a whole load of nothing, I was anticipating a little bit of lore dump not a literal one. "I am super duper powerf.....oh, the manchild cut me in half. Still that nearly entirely untrained Rey broad holds up well." "Oh well, smell you never."

    Oh and whoever happens to be the continuity person, you need a new job. There are countless instances of continuity not being a thing that would require a full page of rambling.

    This was a total abortion of a film and should be forgotten, like that other film I can't get all the way through (Force Coma).

    Worst. Trilogy. Ever. I've seen better put together fanfic by 5 year olds.

    Oh and why the jeff can Marvel keep churning out at least decent films (at worst)? Yet the god franchise can't......

    I hope the director for IX will reveal the secret in this SW saga.

    Since Disney bought Lucasfilm they're making the story a mixture of the classic trilogy and their new creative one.

    If Snoke is really dead, then he's a character to push up the Solo-Skywalker boy to push this last Skywalker-Saga again for their audience. Believe for Mara Jade :open_mouth:
    Can you post the url of the new script for SW Ep. IX here please?
    I am waiting and can't find this script anymore.
  • Ivanofff
    1 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Star Wars: The Last Jedi is one of the best films i have ever seen :o . The preasure was very high and I got a lot of adrenaline when I was sitting on sofa and whatching this movie.
    Can someone recommend some few similar films like this. I've found one list here:
    https://bestsimilar.com/movies/38934-star-wars-episode-viii
  • Ivanofff wrote: »
    Star Wars: The Last Jedi is one of the best films i have ever seen :o . The preasure was very high and I got a lot of adrenaline when I was sitting on sofa and whatching this movie.
    Can someone recommend some few similar films like this. I've found one list here:
    https://bestsimilar.com/movies/38934-star-wars-episode-viii

    Sarcasm?
  • I do feel passionately, because this is a franchise I love, and hate to see it, in my view, go down the toilet.[/quote]

    Couldn't agree more. The new trilogy is for the young people. Fan boys not allowed. lol


  • She also bested Kylo in lightsaber combat the first time ever wielding a lightsaber - despite the fact Kylo was trained in lightsaber combat his entire life - and Kylo is a Skywalker, at least carrying 25% of Anakin's 100% force potency.

    [/quote]

    I will say this in defense of the movie, kylo took a shot from chewie to the side. Could explain his short comings in combat with 2 noobs.
  • Boo
    3432 posts Member

    She also bested Kylo in lightsaber combat the first time ever wielding a lightsaber - despite the fact Kylo was trained in lightsaber combat his entire life - and Kylo is a Skywalker, at least carrying 25% of Anakin's 100% force potency.

    I will say this in defense of the movie, kylo took a shot from chewie to the side. Could explain his short comings in combat with 2 noobs. [/quote]

    And Snoke did say that killing Solo also split Kylo's focus.

    However - Finn was a mere trooper - not even force sensitive and should have been easily beaten. It still doesn't disregard the fact Rey was never trained with a lightsaber.

    I could see Kylo losing to a regularish Jedi (who is not of Skywalker lineage) but this part of the film really didn't make much sense overall.
  • TLJ could have been so great with even a half decent story and director - unfortunately we got Rian and a trash fire of a movie ☹
  • Boo wrote: »

    She also bested Kylo in lightsaber combat the first time ever wielding a lightsaber - despite the fact Kylo was trained in lightsaber combat his entire life - and Kylo is a Skywalker, at least carrying 25% of Anakin's 100% force potency.

    I will say this in defense of the movie, kylo took a shot from chewie to the side. Could explain his short comings in combat with 2 noobs.

    And Snoke did say that killing Solo also split Kylo's focus.

    However - Finn was a mere trooper - not even force sensitive and should have been easily beaten. It still doesn't disregard the fact Rey was never trained with a lightsaber.

    I could see Kylo losing to a regularish Jedi (who is not of Skywalker lineage) but this part of the film really didn't make much sense overall.
    [/quote]

    I am in no way a fan of TFA or TLJ. Was just pointing out that Kylo took a bolt to the knee... ok, it was in the side, but I have to get my self entertaining references in somehow.
  • Not really on topic, buuuut...

  • Boo
    3432 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    Boo
    Post edited by Boo on
  • Kelarn
    79 posts Member
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).
  • Boo
    3432 posts Member
    Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    I heard they are looking at recasting Leia - which will be horrible.

    I think it was much more important to Kennedy and Johnson, after killing off Solo, to disgrace Luke (green milk from alien tit drinking, and nothing what we remember Luke being) and killing him off, while making Leia Mary Poppins her way through space and replacing Carrie with another actress for E9. It was the biggest FU they could do to Lucas - through Kennedy's promise of protecting and respecting the characters he had created.

    I get them wanting to let their new characters grow and shine - writing better new characters would have helped, but they didn't need to let the old die, killing them if they had to - why not just make this new trilogy in a new era, without the shadow of the OT toons? It is all simply very tragic.
  • No Star Wars movie has been entirely logical. Most people are comparing the new Star Wars films to not just the old trilogies, but also the plethora of additional content that was released to support a lot of the gaps. (books, interviews, etc)

    Here are two other points I want people to consider:

    1) a bolt from chewy's blaster is lethal. Kylo was not only unfocused after killing Han, but the rest of his "force" attention was on keeping himself from dying. His arrogance allowed Finn a lucky strike. His damaged state allowed Rey to win.

    2) Rey can utilize the force better than Luke could earlier in time because she BELIEVES it can be used that way. Example, Luke doesn't believe he can pull the x-wing from the swamp (it's not like he got a lot of force specific training before yoda asked him to do that). Rey does believe the force is used to "move rocks". So when presented by the challenge, she doesn't doubt that she can harness the force to achieve that task.

    Ok, 3 points. All this talk of not knowing Rey's lineage is nonsense. The only other Jedi who's lineage we know are Anakin and Luke. This movie was obviously an attempt to move the franchise from being about this specific family and towards a more overarching theme of good vs. evil. Kylo basically beat us over the head with that theme during TLJ.
  • Boo
    3432 posts Member
    Rebel_yell wrote: »
    No Star Wars movie has been entirely logical. Most people are comparing the new Star Wars films to not just the old trilogies, but also the plethora of additional content that was released to support a lot of the gaps. (books, interviews, etc)

    Here are two other points I want people to consider:

    1) a bolt from chewy's blaster is lethal. Kylo was not only unfocused after killing Han, but the rest of his "force" attention was on keeping himself from dying. His arrogance allowed Finn a lucky strike. His damaged state allowed Rey to win.

    2) Rey can utilize the force better than Luke could earlier in time because she BELIEVES it can be used that way. Example, Luke doesn't believe he can pull the x-wing from the swamp (it's not like he got a lot of force specific training before yoda asked him to do that). Rey does believe the force is used to "move rocks". So when presented by the challenge, she doesn't doubt that she can harness the force to achieve that task.

    Ok, 3 points. All this talk of not knowing Rey's lineage is nonsense. The only other Jedi who's lineage we know are Anakin and Luke. This movie was obviously an attempt to move the franchise from being about this specific family and towards a more overarching theme of good vs. evil. Kylo basically beat us over the head with that theme during TLJ.

    Have to argue your points here - as they are extremely flawed.

    Yes we do not know lineage of other jedi (other than the skywalkers) because other jedi were pretty generic. It is known that (at the time of the PT) Mace and especially Yoda were extremely gifted with their force potential.

    A child Anakin superseded them both - by a lot! This was explained because Anakin was part of an ancient Jedi Prophecy - he was conceived/created by the force itself - he was like force Jesus.

    That power (although slightly diluted) was passed to Luke & Leia (Leia never really used her abilities - shame). But Luke did and was the only hope (without Leia rising to the challenge) to end Vader (still the chosen one) and his Sith Master - Yoda and Obi wan could not do this!

    (Yoda and Obi wan believed Luke's power was enough to do the deed and did not count on Luke's ability to redeem his father - but that's another issue).

    Luke had multiple failures - frm deflecting blaster bolts with training remotes, to moving rocks, R2 and of course his X-Wing. And of course, defeated by Vader having his hand cut off.

    Lets remember that Luke trained (briefly) with Obi wan - he then trained for days possibly weeks with Yoda (Luke's time on Dagobah lasted the time it took the Falcon to travel from Hoth to Bespin - without lightspeed!)

    Rey had 2 lessons with Luke, over the course of the fuel life expectancy in TLJ (stated by tFirst Order as 18 hours!!!!).

    Rey's lineage is important because she never fails. She pulls off amazing force techniques without being taught. She lifts entire sides of mountains - what, because she believes she can????

    Yes Kylo was injured, but Vader was in a cumbersome suite, and still not devoting his full strength to Luke and still managed to cut Luke's hand off. And Luke had lightsaber training from Obi wan and the Dagobah cave! Rey had none!!!!

    Rey not only defeated Kylo in lightsaber combat but also resisted his mind probed and in fact reversed his mind probe - WHILE HE WAS AT FULL STRENGTH!

    Luke's lineage and power in the force comes from the force itself (Anakin aka Force Jesus) - Rey is a nobody.

    Your theories and arguments are deeply flawed!
  • Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.
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