Asajj Ventress Limitations

Replies

  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    Just seems lame that characters like Jarrus and Ezra can gain synergistic benefits from being paired with jedi, rebel, and Phoenix factions and Ventress who can clearly use the force and dominate jedis in lightsaber duels can't benefit from synergy with sith characters
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    I think it is, or at least create a rebel Rex. Like they should create a rebel Chewbacca
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    I think he should get a rebel tag, or at least create a rebel Rex toon. And again CG does not dispute she's a sith. That argument is dead, pathetically weak at best.
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    Just like there should be a Rebel Chewbacca
  • YaeVizsla
    1905 posts Member
    Kanan and Ezra are part of the Jedi religion and Force tradition, the Rebel organization, and the Phoenix squadron.

    Asajj's religion and Force tradition is Nightsister.

    A Baptist who teaches at a Catholic school is still a Baptist. A Nightsister who works as an assassin for a Sith is still a Nightsister.

    As to putting the Rebel tag on the young Rex we already have in the game, that design philosophy just completely breaks down the game. Factions are designed to work together. Start putting tags on people arbitrarily and it breaks down game design. Blur the lines between factions too much, and it becomes much more difficult to design a game, and there are a lot more unexpected interactions. Especially since every time a novel, movie, or TV show comes out that reveals more about a character's backstory or future, you have to put more tags on them. For the logic you present to be internally consistent, they would have had to put the Empire and Imperial Trooper tags on all five Han Solos once Solo revealed he used to be an Imperial Trooper, regardless of design or interactions.
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Kanan and Ezra are part of the Jedi religion and Force tradition, the Rebel organization, and the Phoenix squadron.

    Asajj's religion and Force tradition is Nightsister.

    A Baptist who teaches at a Catholic school is still a Baptist. A Nightsister who works as an assassin for a Sith is still a Nightsister.

    As to putting the Rebel tag on the young Rex we already have in the game, that design philosophy just completely breaks down the game. Factions are designed to work together. Start putting tags on people arbitrarily and it breaks down game design. Blur the lines between factions too much, and it becomes much more difficult to design a game, and there are a lot more unexpected interactions. Especially since every time a novel, movie, or TV show comes out that reveals more about a character's backstory or future, you have to put more tags on them. For the logic you present to be internally consistent, they would have had to put the Empire and Imperial Trooper tags on all five Han Solos once Solo revealed he used to be an Imperial Trooper, regardless of design or interactions.

    You got me wrong, I was talking about creating a separate Rebel rex character. I'm not saying every character should have a faction tag of every group they've ever been a part of, you're getting way off point bringing that up(you're not the first to bring up this silly point). Its pretty straight forward, I'm arguing for Asajj specifically. According to canon (which I think all characters should be based) Asajj did not grow up a nightsister. She was sold into slavery, trained as padawan (notice I'm not claiming she should have a jedi tag ) then became a sith apprentice. She was a sith apprentice for the majority of the show, and then fought along side the nightsisters in (ONE BATTLE). And I know what your next counter will be that she is part of the nightsister race (I'm fine with the nightsister tag and synergy) I dont think characters should be tagged by race that's just crazy. She is a dark side force wielder, a sith apprentice, and extremely well skilled with a lightsaber (to the point where she could take on multiple jedi masters at the same time) and there for should be labeled a sith and have synergy with sith teams. If I apply the logic you guys are using then darth maul and savage should not be sith, which is ridiculous.
  • YaeVizsla
    1905 posts Member
    Maul identified as a Sith, declared himself a Sith lord, and took on a Sith apprentice.

    Asajj was a skilled employee of a Sith.
  • Poxx
    2288 posts Member
    In simplest terms, all characters are from a snapshot in the timeline. The Asajj we have atm is not a sith. Whether she ever was or not is immaterial.
  • and why no mention of her being aligned with bounty hunters too?!
  • YaeVizsla
    1905 posts Member
    Because that's not when the snapshot is taken.
  • Poxx wrote: »
    In simplest terms, all characters are from a snapshot in the timeline. The Asajj we have atm is not a sith. Whether she ever was or not is immaterial.

    Which snapshot is R2-D2?
  • YaeVizsla
    1905 posts Member
    Which snapshot is R2-D2?
    That is not a valid example. You know it. You know why.

    R2-D2 is special in that regard.
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Haha!!!
    Post edited by Ninjah9 on
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Yea that's just the issue here. We can debate all we want, the truth is cg is far from perfect and contradicts themselves. They dont have a solid by reason for not making her a sith. It would just be more fun if she had synergy with both because she's a great character. And I'm sure that slight change wouldn't cause a seismic shift in the balance of the game. It would just be cool for fandom. I just know they are never going to take the time to make a sith Asajj so why not just give her the tag, there's no legitimate reason not to. To me based on canon I believe all the sith abilities come from the dark side of the force and she uses the dark side powers therefore she's a sith. I think the bounty hunter tag would be cool but it would be a big stretch.
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Maul identified as a Sith, declared himself a Sith lord, and took on a Sith apprentice.

    Asajj was a skilled employee of a Sith.

    -Asajj was a sith apprentice so its implied that she is declared a sith. An apprentice(sith in training) implies you're a sith. A padawan is not an employee of a jedi. By your logic Asoka is just an employee of Anakin, which is ridiculous
    -Maul never declared himself a sith lord, he declared him and his brother crime lords to Hondo Onaka's syndicate.
    -You didn't answer for Savage, if you're implying that savage is a sith because hes mauls apprentice then your logic says Asajj is a sith.

    Idk at this point I feel you are arguing just to argue, and that's why you're not making any sense. Its disappointing as a fan that she will never be treated as a sith in the game and that sucks. I'll leave it at that, peace

    Post edited by Ninjah9 on
  • YaeVizsla
    1905 posts Member
    Asajj was not Dooku's apprentice. Especially not at every point in the series. She was his assassin. Sidious interpreted her as an apprentice and a threat.

    Darth Maul was apprentice to Darth Sidious, then master to Savage Oppress. Darth Tyranus was apprentice to Darth Sidious. Savage Oppress was apprentice to Darth Tyranus, then Darth Maul.

    Asajj was apprentice to no one.

    Here's her official Star Wars databank entry.

    Dooku actually obeyed the Rule of Two, unlike literally every Sith we meet except Savage. Until Sidious forced him to betray Ventress. Dooku very explicitly did not take Asajj as his Sith apprentice.
  • YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Because that's not when the snapshot is taken.

    I know, but if the OP is asking for sith tag, shouldn't they ask for bh tag too?
  • -Maul did not really declare himself a sith lord, he declared him and his brother crime lords to Hondo Onaka's syndicate.

    so what your really saying is that we need to have Hondo in the game - hero's journey
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    Lol, yea we need Hondo then a Jar Jar meta.
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Asajj was not Dooku's apprentice. Especially not at every point in the series. She was his assassin. Sidious interpreted her as an apprentice and a threat.

    Darth Maul was apprentice to Darth Sidious, then master to Savage Oppress. Darth Tyranus was apprentice to Darth Sidious. Savage Oppress was apprentice to Darth Tyranus, then Darth Maul.

    Asajj was apprentice to no one.

    Here's her official Star Wars databank entry.

    Dooku actually obeyed the Rule of Two, unlike literally every Sith we meet except Savage. Until Sidious forced him to betray Ventress. Dooku very explicitly did not take Asajj as his Sith apprentice.

    Dude you're going in circles, classic sigh you're losing a debate. Dooku called her his apprentice many times, and later tried to take on another apprentice in Savage clearly disobeying the rule of two multiple times.
    Maul said he was Savage's master but never called himself a sith lord. (Keep in mind I'm not arguing hes not a sith, your logic is) You're saying an apprentice is a sith when it suits you and then turning around and saying an apprentice isnt a sith to support your argument its ridiculous
    There's no logical basis for you to say she's not a sith, and if you're going to take this in circles I'm going to start ignoring you.
  • YaeVizsla
    1905 posts Member
    Click. The link.

    Official, word of God, Asajj is not a Sith at any point. https://www.starwars.com/databank/asajj-ventress
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    That's pretty solid evidence to support your point, but I personally believe that explanation is flawed. So were kind of left with two options we could debate the difference between a sith and a "true" sith and say she was a sith but did not attain the highest level or we have to accept by that definition neither Maul or Savage are sith. I think most people would agree all three of them are sith. Maul took the same path as Ventress and later on denounced the sith as an organization but still had sith abilities and could activate sith holocrons (I dont understand how you could do that if you're not a sith). Either way cg is wrong somewhere
  • YaeVizsla
    1905 posts Member
    https://www.starwars.com/databank/savage-opress

    https://www.starwars.com/databank/darth-maul

    Databank disagrees.

    Also, there are no Sith abilities. Sith is an organization. Leaving the organization does not cost you anything you learned with them.
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    -Yea so Savage is only called a sith apprentice (same as Asajj before being betrayed) Savage has the sith tag in game.
    -Maul's description just plain proves that this databank is flawed, he at no point officially became a sith lord. He was an apprentice until assumed dead and then never completed training with his master, so how could that site legitimately say hes a sith lord? He has almost the exact same situation as Asajj, apprentice then taken in by nightsisters he to has the sith tag.
    - And the word sith is a broad term it doest solely mean an organization, it was originally a race of people (darth malgus's master was a native sith) then was used to describe force wielders who used the dark side.
    - So I think the only legitimate claim you could make is that she was a sith but not a "true sith" as it is described on that flawed site (if you still want to use that site as proof). I think my logic makes more sense than that site, unless there is some storyline I've never heard of.
  • YaeVizsla
    1905 posts Member
    Darth Maul calls himself a Sith lord every time he calls himself "Darth." "Darth" is the title of a Sith Lord. You don't have to be the master to be a lord. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Lord

    The Sith race is no longer canon. However, even in Legends, they were so far removed from the present day as to be irrelevant. Sith as a catchall term for dark side Force users is quite explicitly wrong. Snoke and Kylo are dark side Force users, but not Sith. The Nightsisters are dark side Force users, but not Sith. Yes, the Sith organization was named after the Sith race in Legends, but the part that survived was the organization. Not the species.
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    Nightsister use dark side magick. And if you're saying the sith race isnt canon then you're saying nothing in KOTOR is canon. Connections to KOTOR have already been made canon because it is referenced in clone wars and rebels . Maul never called himself a sith lord that is just false. The only time I've ever heard maul called a sith lord is on that site which is questionable at best. And if you want to talk about things not being canon, force awakens and last jedi are little more than fan fiction as far as I'm concerned, those films are garbage and Lucas had nothing to do with them
  • YaeVizsla
    1905 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    KotOR itself is not canon.

    Certain specific aspects have been hinted at or established as canon. KotOR itself has not.

    "Darth" is the title of a Sith lord. Every time you've heard him called "Darth Maul," you've heard him called a Sith Lord. Just like Vader is a Sith lord.

    And the entire sequel trilogy IS the canon, regardless of your thoughts on the subject.

    Also, Lucas had nothing to do with KotOR. Or most of the EU.
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    Dude the sequel trilogy was an abomination. And were talking about the game here, and as far as the game is concerned kotor is canon. If you want to believe he was a sith lord just because he had darth in his name than that's on you. One thing that's for certain is he was palpatines apprentice up until he was presumed dead
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    If you dont want to believe Asajj was a sith then fine, I'm not here to convince you. I was making the argument for the game. I've said just about everything i can say to prove she was one.
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    Btw the comment on the Basilla thread wasn't a response to your comment, I didn't even know you were on that thread. At least we can both agree cg has a way of disappointing fans
  • Ninjah9
    667 posts Member
    And Lucas executive producer clone wars and clone wars referenced kotor=kotor is canon
  • YaeVizsla
    1905 posts Member
    No, Galaxy of Heroes does not make comments on what is or is not canon. Galaxy of Heroes units are Warhammer 40k minis, and can be drawn from whatever, regardless of its canon status.

    The word "Darth" has the literal, canon, in-universe translation of "Dark Lord." That is what that word means. Dark Lord Maul is both a Sith and a Lord. Dark Lord Maul is a Sith Lord.

    And your opinions on the sequel trilogy really don't matter, so drop it before this turns into another bickering about The Last Jedi thread. You don't like the movies. I do like the movies. Whatever.

    That said? The Force Awakens, Rogue One, The Last Jedi, and Solo happened. They are real. They are canon. They were issued by the rightful owners of the IP.
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