G12 and Heroic Raid Reward Changes [MEGA]

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TyloRen
381 posts Moderator
edited June 2018
DEV POST
CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
Hello Holotable Heroes,

With this week’s update, we will be introducing the next two slots of Gear XII (informally “G12+” for the purposes of this post), as exclusive rewards for completing the Heroic Sith Raid. With this will come some changes to the rewards for the Heroic Sith Raid. These changes ONLY impact the Heroic Tier.

Because of the sensitivity of the Heroic Tier and the nature of the rollout of our initial changes to the raid rewards, we’re going to be especially descriptive around the changes we’re making, and why we’re making them.

These are also not the final changes to the rewards and gameplay. We are looking into other small changes to accomplish other goals of ours, as well as some concerns expressed by players, however these are the only changes we are making in the near future.

CONTEXT:
When we released the Heroic Tier Sith Raid, we included a “bonus” chance to receive a fully crafted G12 piece, as a placeholder for our eventual release of G12+ as an exclusive reward. This chance was implemented incorrectly, and gave out complete G12 pieces to all Ranks the majority of the time. (Top 3 performers are actually likely to receive 2 full pieces.)

This gear inflow was far beyond our original intent, and without changes would have driven a gap between the top 0.1% of players and the rest of the game that would have been impossible to close. It would have caused us to be unable to keep rewards and incentives balanced across gear levels in the long run. However, between the difficulty of the Raid, the changes to on-damage effects in Phases 3 & 4, the changes to the Expose mechanic, we decided to leave the rewards in as implemented until G12+ was ready, out of respect for the massive investment players made into their Sith Raid teams at launch. Our first pass at changing raid rewards was not well-received, further confirming that changes could only be made when we were ready to introduce a new, exclusive reward.

THE CHANGES:
Our primary goals for these changes are as follows:
  1. To reward guilds who have focused and collaborated enough to complete the Heroic Tier - This raid is our most challenging PvE content to date - even as we are making changes to the rewards, we want them to remain commensurate with the effort required.
  2. To trade value for exclusivity - Players will receive one to two less guaranteed complete G12 pieces in exchange for consistently earning brand new top-end G12+ components. We believe this is a very fair trade as when completed, G12+ pieces are some of the most powerful gear we have released and will provide a power boost almost comparable to upgrading from G11 to G12. Specifically:
    EVERY Heroic Tier participant will make progress toward 1 of 6 exclusive pieces of top-end, G12+ gear, every raid
    Only players Rank 10 or better will still have a chance to receive a complete piece of existing G12 gear
    All participants will still receive pieces of G12 salvage and the same non-G12 Mystery Box as before
  3. To reward the effort of top performers, while preserving an incentive for lower-ranking players to advance - We are reducing the number of reward tiers in order to create clear milestones for all players in a guild to work towards.

    First, we are removing reward tiers 31-40 and 41-50. All players below Rank 20 will receive the same tier of rewards.

    Secondly, all players will make progress towards G12+ in every raid. Below are the details on how G12+ works and how the G12+ rewards are distributed in each tier:

    G12+ Recipe:
    There are 6 pieces of exclusive G12+ gear. The recipe is as follows:
    • G12+ Component A (50 salvage)
    • G12+ Component B (40 salvage)
    • Two G12 components (Will be grindable on the Ships PvE table)
    • One non-G12 piece

    In the raid rewards, component A and B will always be given for the same G12+ piece to ensure consistent progress.

    G12+ Heroic Sith Raid Reward Tier Summary:
    After each raid:
    • Ranks 1-3 will earn 50%-100% of the G12+ components required for one piece of exclusive G12+ gear.
    • Ranks 4-10 will earn exactly 50% of the G12+ components required for one piece of exclusive G12+ gear.
    • Ranks 11-20 will earn 20%-50% (40% on average) of the G12+ components required for one piece of exclusive G12+ gear.
    • Ranks 21-50 will earn 20%-50% (30% on average) of the G12+ components required for one piece of exclusive G12+ gear.

    Additionally, Ranks 1-10 have a small bonus chance to earn an extra fully crafted piece of G12+.

To reiterate, only the G12 component of the Heroic Tier is being significantly changed at this time. We are actively monitoring player feedback and progress across other tiers and will continue to make adjustments in the future.

We would love to hear your thoughts on these upcoming changes

DEV POST

Replies

  • TyloRen
    381 posts Moderator
    Reserved
  • Royal guard rework and his tie interceptor please
  • TVF
    36519 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    So no changes to lower tier rewards?

    Is this a joke? How much more feedback do you need? Find me a single post that says the rewards are fair for lower tiers. All you are doing is making it worse for those of us who refuse to abandon our long standing guild for an hstr guild.

    Thanks for nothing. I usually defend you guys but this is garbage.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • These changes don’t make me any happier then your last attempt at changing loot.
    I hate these new timesinks called Tb/tw. Annoying features.
  • Why no changes to lower tier rewards? Specifically, take OUT the challenge gear!!!!
  • Just admit it. This is g13 gear. Just because there's no g13 yet in the game doesn't mean this isn't g13 gear. Just as the first level of gear gets you to g1 and is g1 gear, this gets you to g13 once it arrives and is therefore g13 gear. People should stop calling it g12+ gear (and especially g12 gear).
  • Syrup_Chugger3
    2170 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    Really. Get rid of challenge gear, i cant remember the last time i got anything of value from sith raid (aside from guild curremcy), add guild event currency back in and bump the probability of getting pieces we're hurting on. Carbantis, stun guns, stun cuffs, droid callers etc.
  • TVF
    36519 posts Member
    I'd really appreciate some legitimate explanation of why the lower tiers are not being changed. If you're not going to fix our rewards, just come out and say so, and tell us why.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • As for the issue of lower tiers, this is about as dumb as possible. Those of us doing lower tiers got robbed of better rewards because the top 1% of players didn't like the changes to the tier they were doing. So all of us got worse rewards. The rewards for the Sith raid, which takes days, are so inferior to TW and TB rewards for the amount of time put in, that many in my guild don't even want to bother to do it, which makes it that much harder to get to a higher tier. The gear is sometimes worse than the gear for heroic tank and rancor. The currency is the only reason to do it, because most of us have hundreds of what it gives us. So now when you go ahead and fix the thing that kept all of us from having those better rewards that weren't the problem (the heroic was the problem), you decide not to give them back to us even though you're fixing the thing that led you to deny them to us to begin with.
  • Ultra
    11449 posts Moderator
    I feel like this new raid gear changes are going to be a disaster when it comes to drop rates for the new gear. And scoring less than 10 sounds like horrible. The top 10 that do score well will continue to score higher and higher with G12+ gear so its going to widen the gap within the guild

    While we are on the subject of raid rewards, can we get the tank exclusive rewards that cannot be requested available to be requested? A lot of that gear is locked and cannot be requested but available from every other source
  • Good luck competing in arenas if you don't get jtr this time around unless you can find a guild to take you without her or no one on your shard is running heroic yet.
  • Parableman wrote: »
    As for the issue of lower tiers, this is about as dumb as possible. Those of us doing lower tiers got robbed of better rewards because the top 1% of players didn't like the changes to the tier they were doing. So all of us got worse rewards. The rewards for the Sith raid, which takes days, are so inferior to TW and TB rewards for the amount of time put in, that many in my guild don't even want to bother to do it, which makes it that much harder to get to a higher tier. The gear is sometimes worse than the gear for heroic tank and rancor. The currency is the only reason to do it, because most of us have hundreds of what it gives us. So now when you go ahead and fix the thing that kept all of us from having those better rewards that weren't the problem (the heroic was the problem), you decide not to give them back to us even though you're fixing the thing that led you to deny them to us to begin with.

    whine less, whale harder.
  • Aliea
    63 posts Member
    How depressing for those of us doing lower tiers. Makes me think that only "whales" get rewarded. Don't get me wrong, I spend a lot of money on this game but with stunts like this, I will scale back the amount I spend. Great job CG.
  • LORDKAI
    96 posts Member
    So tl;dr - rich get richer and the poor get poorer
  • Dont want to create a gap that would be impossible to close? That is exactly what you are doing leaving lower tiers "rewards" alone. Theyre trash. They do not help us progress at all.

    As TVF said, I could leave my guild and make into a guild which would be completing HRST probably months before mine, but I like my guild and now we're going to be even further behind. Especially some of us longer term players who have multiple traya teams already in arena.
  • There's really no incentive to increase to a more challenging tier of the raid for us lower guilds. Going from t3 to t4 was an alright jump because of the better gear rewards but the increase in guild currency is a complete joke. On average 100-150 more per reward tier for jumping in difficulty? The time difference in completion alone nips that reward increase in the butt. Going from T4 to T5 is even worse. Sure you add in a little bit of guild event currency, but you also add in a reward table that while adding some needed pieces, also adds in some useless pieces. Honestly the lower tiers need to be adjusted. Guild event currency should at minimum be added to t3 and t4 at some extent. Additionally, the regular guild currency should be adjusted to reflect a major increase from tier to tier. 150 per person isn't even enough to buy a piece of useful salvage from the guild shop, come on CG who made this decision? And the rewarded loot really needs to be looked at. Its a slog through the raid, we shouldn't have a chance to receive useless rewards as our reward. You admit its some of the most challenging content yet I get better rewards on the regular from my heroic pit prize boxes for posting my zero and peacing out for the day. i'm not arguing against the changes for the top tier guilds being rewarded for HSTR completions. They deserve it, its some hard content to down, kudos to them. But show some deserved love for the 80-90% of guilds slogging through tier 3-5 day in and day out for pitiful rewards.
  • Heard the feedback. Ignored it like has been done throughout history. Why is anybody surprised or disappointed? These are obviously the only solutions that actually makes any sense and once we see it in action most people will learn to love them. Just give them a chance, for crying out loud.
  • I did 3 or 4 million to t7 rancor last night, took about 10 minutes with one team and woke up this morning with a fully crafted mkV droid caller plus some other salvage I needed.
    I do 12-15 million to t3 str, takes 30 minutes or more with a few teams, two or three days to complete it, and get some challenge gear I have plenty of and don’t need at all.
    I’d really appreciate better rewards for the extra effort and difficulty.
  • I think devs were clear enough with this post: we just care of whales and very late stage players, all the rest we don't.
    I still hope for an explanation of this completely disregarding treatment, but my guess is no.
    That said, I simply dropped from paying attention to the sith raid, I do my battles in auto without even setting up the teams just to keep helping the guild a little bit. Rewards for lower tiers are so garbage that I don't even notice them.
  • What a bunch of bantha fodder. You donkey hats didn’t listen to a Hoover dam word that anybody said for the last month in the thread the @CG_SBCrumb started and ignored. This only addressing heroic rewards is strait up garbage. Your still beating the we do t want to increase the power gap for top 1% of our players. I can tell you the rewards for doing 1 heroic would be the equivalent of doing like 8 tier 5. Give yourselves a pat on the back, you’ve done nothing but cater to the top 1% as usual. I guess they keep the lights on for ya so whatever. To the rest of you poor saps doing tier4s for a handful of mk vii Nubians and 400 guild tokens, I feel for ya. Don’t worry, if you place in the top ten in t5 now you get 10 bonus chewy shards! Anyway, thanks for the sweeping changes and I will continue to frown as guilds are destroyed and gaps are widened as players chase gear and trayas.
  • Ploosh
    565 posts Member
    1) Agree with @TVF, this is absolute bull that lower tiers are getting no update. They're getting shafted so hard every single raid.

    2) On a personally level, I'm a bit bummed, because my guild just merged to start completing HSTR and now I feel like this is still gonna be a nerf overall, as I'm sure we'll end up getting significantly less g12 gear out of this, even with the added value of g12+ gear.
  • Why would you make the elite even more elite by having g12+ only available to start with from the raid that most of the player base cant and wont be finishing for a long time.
    Why couldnt you give us mere mortals a fair chance like putting a piece in the hpit,another in the haat etc...spread the availability around throughout the game to put enthusiasm back into older parts and giving the little guys a chance to progress better towards the sith raid.
    All yourve done is put a bigger void in between the rich spenders who have it all and well .......me thankyou so much for increasing the hill im tryn to climb
  • Wycross
    53 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    It’s unclear in he post if the components from the shop table are only available there and are required for these new pieces. If so, then releasing the new ships table at the same time as these changes is what should happen.

    Edit: looks like it is coming at the same time after all.
  • I've got a bad feeling about this...
  • There are 6 pieces of exclusive G12+ gear. The recipe is as follows:
    G12+ Component A (50 salvage)
    G12+ Component B (40 salvage)
    Two G12 components (Will be grindable on the Ships PvE table)
    One non-G12 piece

    @CG_SBCrumb -- can you clarify this a little bit? The G12 components are what exactly? Is it one of the G11 -> G12 pieces (such as an MK6 Stun Gun) or is it just the MK4 gel/equivalent? Or by G12 component do you mean the component part of one of the existing g12 pieces?
  • Monel
    2776 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    I'd really appreciate some legitimate explanation of why the lower tiers are not being changed. If you're not going to fix our rewards, just come out and say so, and tell us why.

    This please, lower tiers need better gear to grow into higher tiers. My guild can compete heroic already, we dont need better gear. The hardest part of the game is already handled. Make it easier for lower guilds to grow into heroic.
  • My main concern is how large of a nerf this will be to the hSTR current G12 rewards. I usually score #18 or #19 in my guild, which means I will be in the 10-20 tier.

    I like how the new G12+ is gated at hSTR, but based on how this looks it basically says “we’re nerfing your G12 income for G12+”.
  • Greedy much?
  • Wow, really? The rewards for the lower tiers are what needed addressed first. Not heroic. Seems incredibly tone deaf to just make hstr even better and keep ignoring those trying to build up to heroic.
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