G12 and Heroic Raid Reward Changes [MEGA]

Replies

  • Vinniarth
    1859 posts Member
    Vorgen wrote: »
    Soz58 wrote: »
    I have a GP of 3.1 million and spend $ on this game and I run a guild and really enjoy improving as a team and doing some of the heavy work, the Sith Raid is a huge disappointment to me, in order to get Traya shards and defeat Heroic Sith I would have to leave my guild and join another just for that reason... I think CG is disappointing many of us and not listening to its fans base, just the upper 2%...

    Because they are operating a business and the upper 2% generates 90+% of their revenue. If you were running a for-profit business, which segment of your customer base would you focus on? Those 2% or the rest of the 98%?

    You don’t know how the FtP game works, do you? Without free players whales stop spending. So it is crucial to keep the gap as close as possible. There should be advantage but it shouldn’t be big. Overwise almighty whales would win any FtP player and there is no need to spend money at all. And the game dies
  • @CG_SBCrumb if we start a heroic sith raid before these changes go live will it give the new rewards if we finish the raid after the changes are live or will we still get the old rewards?
  • I've never been as close to quitting as I am now. CG is completely obtuse to their player base. The biggest issue has always been that the tier 1-6 rewards don't match the level of effort. How...is...that...hard...to...understand?

    And they spend their time:
    1) Changing ships in ways no one asked for
    - We wanted variety, we got wholesale mechanics change and nerfed ships
    2) Introducing new characters at a rate the player base can't keep up with
    3) Focusing only on the whales, while its the player base that attracts new players

    Even the whales see how bad this is for the health of the game. When the rest of the player base is gone, the game will die.
  • I suggest to monitor the amount of quit and reduction of income following this brilliant choice...

    totally disgusted
  • Here's a thought - how about we wait and see what this ACTUALLY means for the new raid rewards before we all pitch a fit? Because it seems like a lot of people don't really understand what's being changed, or still just enjoy complaining more than playing.

    Or ... just quit. Lots of other games out there.

  • I don’t get it.

    People in guilds doing Heroic STR may be angry at their rewards but they are clearly engaged in the game and progressing. While people in guilds doing lower tiers are frequently not motivated by the rewards to participate in this raid.

    You want to give back to those who have followed the path you proposed, so they clearly separate from the rest, but you’re risking damaging even more the motivation of those who couldn’t follow that path, and eventually risking they quit the game.

    You’ve said many times that with STR you wanted to challenge guilds to learn to be collaborative, but at this point, the truth is you’re not promoting colaboration all over the game, but disloyalty: people refusing to collaborate and abandoning guilds for vacant spots in the established Heroic STR guilds.
  • Let me predict what happens next.

    Many great guilds are keeping it together just about because they are good social places to be, if your not doing HSTR then the guilds heavy hitters have been carrying most through the raid whilst we all get and gear JTR.

    What will happen now is those heavy hitters will have to decide on the likelyhood of the guild completing HSTR soon, if they are all confident then they will stay and the guild will live another day, if however even one leaves the rest will start a caskade exodus as the heavy hitters that like thier guild feel the need to move to get these new shiny bits that are only available to heroic capable guilds.

    And of course no one can blame the because they need them for the arena or they will really start falling behind, many guilds that are still managing to survive dispite this raid are about to fall apart

    Good Job CG, i didnt think you could make this raid worse, but you managed it
  • This change sucks for everyone really. Not getting full G12 pieces anymore sounds like a nerf so us doing heroic will be annoyed. Anyone doing lower tiers don't get any changes to their rewards AND when they eventually do get to heroic the rewards will be worse than some top guilds that have been doing heroic since day 1 got.

    Also expect traya to be nerfed once regular folk unlock her. I'm on 46/145 at the moment.

    Cheers CG! (sarcastically)
  • jedilord
    337 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    G12+ pieces are some of the most powerful gear we have released and will provide a power boost almost comparable to upgrading from G11 to G12.

    @CG_SBCrumb does that mean if someone of the heroic sithraid guilds equip such an piece of g12+ gear at a pilot, they will get (for example) +10 speed for it (and a big amount of all the other shipstats)?
    are you aware that noone will ever catch up in your ship2.0 desaster until they are heroic siithraid able? first darth traya in normal arena and now shiparena unbeatable for non heroic players.

    do you really want the nonheroic players wipe out of your game???
  • FailingCrab
    1155 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    This change sucks for everyone really. Not getting full G12 pieces anymore sounds like a nerf so us doing heroic will be annoyed. Anyone doing lower tiers don't get any changes to their rewards AND when they eventually do get to heroic the rewards will be worse than some top guilds that have been doing heroic since day 1 got.

    Also expect traya to be nerfed once regular folk unlock her. I'm on 46/145 at the moment.

    Cheers CG! (sarcastically)

    I've seen a lot of people saying that it looks like the heroic rewards are being nerfed but I don't get it - they're adding in g12+ which is massively OP gear ONLY available from the heroic raid. That sounds like a big boost to me. Sure they're reducing the g12 rewards but of course they'd do that, it would be even more unbalanced otherwise.

    I agree with those worried about leaving non-heroic rewards as they stand. Put simply, they're crap. It takes my guild 3-4 days to complete a t4 and I don't even look at the rewards anymore because they're always useless. It doesn't help us get towards a higher tier at all, which is ****.

    I've seen many guilds fracture as players leave for HSith guilds and this change is only going to make that worse. You'd have to have massive loyalty to stick with a guild working towards HSith right now rather than jumping ship.

    Edit: I want to downvote this content filter
    https://swgoh.gg/u/ionastarbound/
    Discord: Iona Starbound#5299
  • YanM123
    40 posts Member
    I was hoping the rewards scale would encourage players to aim for higher scores in the raid... Ranks 1-3 still remain far better than the rest, and now there's no point to actually try to score damage if you know you won't hit higher than 20th...

    This wasn't thought out very well... Before saying this is your final change, you should really try and get some feedback... we all know how the last attempt at this went :/
  • Let’s see what happens first, then decide. Personally, I’m curious about GMY rework. I’m hoping it’s not garbage and actually makes him a valuable asset again.
  • jayjonbeach
    697 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    YanM123 wrote: »
    I was hoping the rewards scale would encourage players to aim for higher scores in the raid...

    Yes, this is another HUGE issue. Even in something like Tier 3 or 4, there is barely any incentive to try to get into the top 4-10 places from somewhere like 21-30, let alone 11-20. The amount that the guild currency etc goes up is a joke for the amount of time you put in. So what happens? Many people DON'T BOTHER and the raid takes a LOT LONGER!. FIX IT FOR PETE"S SAKE!!!!

  • For those complaining about lower tier rewards ducking. Well, git gud. 114mil gp clear here. It's possible for less. Focus, read the strategies, and stop wasting your time on lower tiers
  • That's another NERF !
    Why do you keep removing things you already set up ?
    And I feel very bad for lower tiers. I would be extremely angry to see nothing changes.
    I can't understand how do you achieve such a poor management.
  • This change sucks for everyone really. Not getting full G12 pieces anymore sounds like a nerf so us doing heroic will be annoyed. Anyone doing lower tiers don't get any changes to their rewards AND when they eventually do get to heroic the rewards will be worse than some top guilds that have been doing heroic since day 1 got.

    Also expect traya to be nerfed once regular folk unlock her. I'm on 46/145 at the moment.

    Cheers CG! (sarcastically)

    I've seen a lot of people saying that it looks like the heroic rewards are being nerfed but I don't get it - they're adding in g12+ which is massively OP gear ONLY available from the heroic raid. That sounds like a big boost to me. Sure they're reducing the g12 rewards but of course they'd do that, it would be even more unbalanced otherwise.

    I agree with those worried about leaving non-heroic rewards as they stand. Put simply, they're ****. It takes my guild 3-4 days to complete a t4 and I don't even look at the rewards anymore because they're always useless. It doesn't help us get towards a higher tier at all, which is ****.

    I've seen many guilds fracture as players leave for HSith guilds and this change is only going to make that worse. You'd have to have massive loyalty to stick with a guild working towards HSith right now rather than jumping ship.

    Edit: I want to downvote this content filter

    Yeah maybe it won't be a nerf but it sure looks that way as before ( at the moment) I'm getting a full g12 piece per raid, after is gonna be scattered pieces for different G12+ pieces over the course of many many raids seeing as the chances of getting 3 raids in a row where you get the right salvage for one piece is probably pretty slim
  • Also it'll probably be 9-10 raids before you can craft a new G12+ piece
  • Vinniarth
    1859 posts Member
    I wish I had your problems, guys...
  • And rewards were changed and nerfed already? Got junk in my heroic str last night




  • Lower tear rewards not considered. Higher level tear rewards in summary made worser. Taking aside the top ten elite players of a guild. If all pieces would at least be farmable with guild event tokens. But I could not see that they will be.

    This is a rip off and after a short time of CG gaving me the feeling they will more a bit more towards their players this new move feels as a -> give us all your money as fast as possible. Pay to win is our business concept.

    And this bears a high risk of risking the game itself.
  • QJinX
    219 posts Member
    No changes for lower tiers. You guys cant really be this out of touch, can you?

    I think this is my final straw. Time to set the game aside and move on. You folks at CG are ridiculous.
  • QJinX
    219 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    So no changes to lower tier rewards?

    Is this a joke? How much more feedback do you need? Find me a single post that says the rewards are fair for lower tiers. All you are doing is making it worse for those of us who refuse to abandon our long standing guild for an hstr guild.

    Thanks for nothing. I usually defend you guys but this is garbage.

    Exactly. CG Carrie is running this game into the ground with an Acme rocket strapped to her back.
  • One change, albeit a small one is desperately needed. We're not players, we're not "Holo-Table heroes", we're CUSTOMERS. Without us, and our goodwill, all you have is code and pretty pictures. If gaming history has taught us anything, it is that things can change in a blink. The enviable bottom line can go south in a heartbeat. The company response to the TST raid reward feedback, is clear now. And going forward, the resulting lack of trust is going to increase. I'm bracing for the inevitable guild shake up, and again wonder if this is all worth it.
  • Emmant
    93 posts Member
    @CG_SBCrumb

    Hi crumb

    In my understanding the main reason given for these changes is that beforehand there was too great influx of high end gear for the top 1%...

    I have a really hard time understanding how this is going to change with these changes?

    It appears this is still aimed at the very top end, right? So your end goal is to expand the growing gap from top 1% to what? Top 5%?

    The way I see this change it will continue to increase the gap between hstr and rest significantly, which is directly the opposite of what was stated as the intention

    Where am I wrong?

    That being said, I am really dissapointed that people in lower tiers get nothing whatsoever to make this content more interesting for them
  • This change sucks for everyone really. Not getting full G12 pieces anymore sounds like a nerf so us doing heroic will be annoyed. Anyone doing lower tiers don't get any changes to their rewards AND when they eventually do get to heroic the rewards will be worse than some top guilds that have been doing heroic since day 1 got.

    Also expect traya to be nerfed once regular folk unlock her. I'm on 46/145 at the moment.

    Cheers CG! (sarcastically)

    I've seen a lot of people saying that it looks like the heroic rewards are being nerfed but I don't get it - they're adding in g12+ which is massively OP gear ONLY available from the heroic raid. That sounds like a big boost to me. Sure they're reducing the g12 rewards but of course they'd do that, it would be even more unbalanced otherwise.

    You might not have opened your inbox yet with a couple of full g12 pieces ready to kick. And I wish you'd some day.
    Now we are not getting that anymore, and neither will the future guilds to be ready. Which will widen the gap.
    We will be getting exclusive salvage which can take weeks or months to complete for a piece depending of RNG and your ranking.

    Not to mention tier 1-6 not being updated.

    It's a loss for everyone.
  • This is utter junk. I created an account entirely to respond to this post. First off, lets talk about stuff that wasn't addressed at all. How about the lower tiers? The heroic doesn't need that many changes compared to... oh wait, EVERY OTHER TIER. Or how about the fix to raid rewards from before, where you removed the challenge gear and upped the tokens? Those were preferable. But now, nope, let's ignore all those other issues to bring you stuff no one wants! Literally, the absolute worst thing that could possibly happen to this game would be 6* and 7* mods, and the second worst thing is increasing gear tiers. Adding two new slots, which are by your own admittance ridiculously overpowered, and calling it content is flat out stupid.

    Next, let's address your hypocrisy. "...and without changes would have driven a gap between the top 0.1% of players and the rest of the game that would have been impossible to close".

    How is adding ridiculously overpowered gear available to the top 0.1% of the players not driving a gap? I'm completely missing whatever you think qualifies for logic here. 'We should stop giving out g12 gear because it will make the people who can do Heroic Sith too strong, and instead, lets give out g12+ gear, which is even better!!!'

    In fact, not only do you blatantly ignore one of your reasons, you proceed to make it even worse. The removal of the chance for fully crafted gear from ranks 11-50 means that ... oh wait, the top 20% of that .1% get even strong faster than everyone else! Good job, geniuses. You fail at basic math (and economics, I suppose. Rich get richer - faster - and the poor get poorer)

    Yet another bit of poor planning is the equalization of all ranks 21-50 in terms of gear... but not in terms of shards or currency. That is just awful planning based upon your stated goals for what the HSith raid really is. So far, you have done a really **** good job of making this the absolute hardest content in the game. You've made it so there's absolutely no way to solo it, no way to cheese it, and no way for a strong top 10 carry the guild through it. That's all good (well, if you're willing to put in time and effort to progress, which HSith guilds clearly are).

    The problem this creates with your new reward scheme is it is blatantly against your stated ideals. Goal #3 is to "To reward the effort of top performers, while preserving an incentive for lower-ranking players to advance". I don't think you understand the concept of advancing. You are LIMITING the top ranked spots. Let me paint you an example. You have 20 people in your high-end HSith guild, and they all have some really really good teams. They all have a full JTR team for p1, all have a Wampa/hermit team for p2, all have the 'chex mix' team for p3, and all have a fully kitted out Nightsister team for p4. All of them take the time and good RNG on their runs, and put out the same damage. Hey guess what, you just shafted 10 of them. The top 10, which literally (in this example) did zero more damage than the 10 below them, all have significantly increased gear. MASSIVELY so, if what you're saying about g12+ gear is true.

    This isn't HAAT, where you can have one or 2 people do the work and get guaranteed top scores. This is HSITH, which is quite literally the most massive undertaking that any guild has had to do. 20 people with absolute best Chex Mix teams potentially won't even be able to fully kill phase 3. This is a massive guild-wide undertaking which requires tons and tons of people building good teams and gearing them, with zetas and absolute end-game gear. And yet 10 people can have crafted pieces, the rest can go screw off? How are you even justifying this to yourself, it's nonsensical.

    And again, the concept of progress. So lets say we have someone who's hovering around rank 40 of 50 in the guild in terms of GP, and has a really good chex mix team THAT THE GUILD NEEDS TO KILL p3 (because it's an 'all hands on deck' phase. How can they 'improve' compared to the guy who takes 3rd who has the same team, JTR, and a NS team. Even if he got the exact same teams, and did just as much damage.... well guess what, if he goes up, then someone else has to go down. And then, taken to it's logical conclusion, when everyone has the same teams geared.... you're going to shaft 80% of the guild. This is not advancement, this is punishment. OH, and lets not forget that for ranking 40th in the raid, they can't get full gear, and get gear slower than everyone in the top 20, much less top 10 or top 3, meaning they can't catch up. HSith, for the majority of it's phases, actually really NEEDS g12 gear. Having the multi-tool g12 piece on R2, Resistance Trooper, and BB8 is almost necessary to get the full potential damage. Nerfing the guild's access to those pieces drastically weakens the entire guild.

    Is this a blatant supply cut so that people will be forced to buy via crystals? Is that what this is? A thinly veiled attempt to punish those not will to pay real money? Because at this point it really seems so.

    There are other issues of course, but the main one that comes to mind is the fact you're erasing the gear reward tiers from 21-50, but keeping the shards and the tokens scaled. Why is this different from HAAT. Can't we all get Traya shards? I really can't think of any logical reason to do so. If you're equalizing gear for those tiers, why not the rest. We've already established that HSith itself is something that requires the participation of near everyone. After all, Traya doesn't seem to have many uses for the raid according to the game testers, so why tier it. It doesn't follow in line with your stated goals.

    Oh and for the love of god, remove the challenge gear. It's utterly ridiculous that you were apologetic when you reverted to the old reward system and had to put in the challenge gear, but now won't fix it here. Stop messing around and fix the things that are broken instead of breaking things by adding stuff.
  • BubbaFett
    3311 posts Member
    So.... You start a thread asking for feedback, we give it to you, and the first thing you do is fix something that was not broken in the first place?.... Makes sense

  • If the fully crafted gear from heroic was driving a wedge into the player base, won't G12+ being exclusive to heroic drive an even bigger wedge? Arena is going to be a mess for those not doing heroic. I like the idea behind these changes but we need to hear about changes to tier 4, 5 & 6 coming soon otherwise it's very depressing for players that don't have heroic on farm.
  • I think this is very good. Many players overreacting based on exactly how their own gameplay is affected. Thinking of this change as a whole i think its good. Of couse shall the best players or the ones invested most have acces to the best stuff. Thats their reward for being loyal and strategic with their roosters. I see no benefit at all give g12+ stuff to mediocre players who sit and whine all day at forums.
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