The Road Ahead: July 5, 2018 [MEGA]

Replies

  • Ikky2win
    870 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    I think most people are overlooking how big a change this is to mods. Consider a blue mod right now. If it starts with a speed secondary you can level it to 3 and have a 50% chance it will upgrade speed. You can level it to 6 and then you’ll have another 50% chance to upgrade speed.

    In the new system when you level it to 3, it will unlock the third stat. When you level it to 6 it will unlock the fourth stat. When you level it to 9, you now have a 25% chance to upgrade speed, and when you level it to 12 you have another 25% chance to upgrade speed. Thus, it now costs MORE to see if it’s going to upgrade speed and you have LESS of a chance of upgrading speed.

    Green mods are even worse. A green mod with a speed secondary is guaranteed to upgrade speed at level 3. In this new system you have to level it all the way to 12 just to get a 25% shot to upgrade it.

    Am I missing something here or did they just make mods worse and make it darn near impossible for people with subpar mods to ever catch up to people with good mods? Currently if you farm mods a ton you have a shot at catching up but under this new system if you’re behind it will be even harder to catch up because you will have a far worse chance of upgrading speed.

    So is this correct? Slicing aside if this is correct it’s about the worst possible thing they could do. Like I could sit here for the next 12 hours and try to find a way to make it worse and I don’t think I could.
  • Bulldog1205
    3534 posts Member
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    For those that don’t want to read my whole post I’ll summarize it:

    Current System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 13.5k to upgrade and you have a 100% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    New System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 168.7k to upgrade and you have a 25% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    I mean, yes, that is true. But you have to keep a couple of things in mind here:

    1) Previously on a green tier starring mod with a speed secondary it maxed out at 10. Yes, you were guaranteed 10, but it couldn’t go any higher. Now you could possibly hit 25 with a green tier starting mod. For those of us who don’t care about more +10 speed mods and are searching for +20 speed mods, this could be better.

    2) It sounds like they are balancing mods. Right now only speed matters. But if balanced properly, knowing the other 3 secondary stats could be more important than knowing how often speed hits. Maybe a +5 speed mod with crit chance, offense is more useful on an attacker than a +10 speed mod with defense and heath.

  • Bulldog1205
    3534 posts Member
    Obi1_son wrote: »
    You all want us to fix the Sith raid? Let's go ahead and ruin mods.

    Well, they said mod management would come until they released 6 dot mods. So I assume 6 dot mods are coming (and slicing is the way to make 5 dot mods kind of competitive. Notice they said only 5 dot mods can be sliced). Stronger mods will make all current content easier. So this will help everyone get to heroic.
  • swgohfan29
    1147 posts Member
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    For those that don’t want to read my whole post I’ll summarize it:

    Current System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 13.5k to upgrade and you have a 100% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    New System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 168.7k to upgrade and you have a 25% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    I mean, yes, that is true. But you have to keep a couple of things in mind here:

    1) Previously on a green tier starring mod with a speed secondary it maxed out at 10. Yes, you were guaranteed 10, but it couldn’t go any higher. Now you could possibly hit 25 with a green tier starting mod. For those of us who don’t care about more +10 speed mods and are searching for +20 speed mods, this could be better.

    2) It sounds like they are balancing mods. Right now only speed matters. But if balanced properly, knowing the other 3 secondary stats could be more important than knowing how often speed hits. Maybe a +5 speed mod with crit chance, offense is more useful on an attacker than a +10 speed mod with defense and heath.

    So basically all mods can get god speed but god speed is harder to get?
  • dabr0l1
    31 posts Member
    CG: some people really don't understand Mods.
    EA: Do you have a solution for this?
    CG: Yes release tutorials on mods right before we change them entirely.
    EA: Excellent!!!
  • Bulldog1205
    3534 posts Member
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    For those that don’t want to read my whole post I’ll summarize it:

    Current System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 13.5k to upgrade and you have a 100% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    New System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 168.7k to upgrade and you have a 25% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    I mean, yes, that is true. But you have to keep a couple of things in mind here:

    1) Previously on a green tier starring mod with a speed secondary it maxed out at 10. Yes, you were guaranteed 10, but it couldn’t go any higher. Now you could possibly hit 25 with a green tier starting mod. For those of us who don’t care about more +10 speed mods and are searching for +20 speed mods, this could be better.

    2) It sounds like they are balancing mods. Right now only speed matters. But if balanced properly, knowing the other 3 secondary stats could be more important than knowing how often speed hits. Maybe a +5 speed mod with crit chance, offense is more useful on an attacker than a +10 speed mod with defense and heath.

    So basically all mods can get god speed but god speed is harder to get?

    No, these “God Speed” mods appear easier to get. Now there are 2 ways to get them. The way we always have and now taking our lower tier mods and slicing them. I have no idea how much slicing will cost, so it’s hard to say how popular it will be, but it definitely won’t make it harder.
  • SoonerJBD
    460 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    I scored a perfect 36 in reading comprehension when I took the ACT 20 years ago. I say this not to brag, but because I want to emphasize that the explanation of the changes to mods is incomprehensible, which seems clear given the comments here. And I’m sorry, @CG_SBCrumb but your reply has only made it more confusing. Not trying to be critical here, just hoping we can get more clarity. This paragraph in particular makes no sense: “Why is this important for determining which mods you want to slice and completely max out? You might not know all the secondaries even if you level the mod to 15 with the current system.”

    Under the current system, you know all the secondaries by the time you level a mod to 12 regardless of what tier it is. Level 15 is max level. By definition, you know everything there is to know about a mod when it reaches max level under the current system.

    More generally, I don’t understand what is gained by leveling a mod as opposed to slicing it. The original post seemed to indicate that leveling a mod would no longer improve secondary stats and would merely reveal all stats on a mod. Slicing would now be required to improve stats. Crumb’s reply seems to indicate one of two possIbilities. Either 1. Leveling now works essentially in reverse of how it used to for lower tier mods such that leveling a blue to 3 and 6 will reveal the two hidden secondaries while levels 9 and 12 will randomly improve one of those four stats each time. This would mean leveling a gold mod would essentially be no different than it is now. You get four sec dart stat upgrades, one each at 3, 6, 9 and 12. Slicing a lower tier mod would allow lower tier mods to potentially reach the same max stats as higher tier mods by giving you additional chances to upgrade a secondary stat if you have the necessary slicing materials. This would mean grey mods could be sliced up to four times, green mods three times, blue mods twice, purple mods once and gold mods could not be sliced. OR 2. Higher tier mods start out with higher stat levels but secondary stats on those mods will now be hidden and only revealed as you level them. Meaning a gold level 1 mod would show no secondary stats but would reveal new secondary stats as grey ones do now, every three levels, but those stats will begin higher than they would on a grey mod. This would allow all mods to be sliced to improve secondary stats an as yet undetermined number of times, with lower tier mods able to reach the stats of a fully-leveled but unsliced gold mod while gold mods would still maintain the best potential secondary stats as they are sliced.

    Are either of these explanations anywhere close to how this is supposed to work?
  • Clash2Far
    170 posts Member
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    I think most people are overlooking how big a change this is to mods. Consider a blue mod right now. If it starts with a speed secondary you can level it to 3 and have a 50% chance it will upgrade speed. You can level it to 6 and then you’ll have another 50% chance to upgrade speed.

    I don’t think they would ever admit this, but I really believe there is a negative exponential on rolls of the same stat. So for a blue, 50/50 for the first roll, then 75/25 in favor of the stat that didn’t win on the next roll. Then the stats get even worse for purple / gold mods. Here is my theory:

    Example on a tier B, purple mod would be 33/33/33 FIRST roll.
    Then 40/40/20 for the SECOND roll (with 20 being the stat that landed the first roll)
    Then for the THIRD roll, it either goes 80/10/10 if it lands on a different stat from the first or 45/45/10 if it lands on the same stat.

    Example on a tier A, gold mod only representing the same stat increasing:
    FIRST roll = 25/25/25/25
    SECOND roll = 29/29/29/13
    THIRD roll = 32/32/32/4
    Fourth roll = 33/33/33/1



    Ally Code 285-115-111
  • Zevox
    172 posts Member
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    I think most people are overlooking how big a change this is to mods. Consider a blue mod right now. If it starts with a speed secondary you can level it to 3 and have a 50% chance it will upgrade speed. You can level it to 6 and then you’ll have another 50% chance to upgrade speed.

    In the new system when you level it to 3, it will unlock the third stat. When you level it to 6 it will unlock the fourth stat. When you level it to 9, you now have a 25% chance to upgrade speed, and when you level it to 12 you have another 25% chance to upgrade speed. Thus, it now costs MORE to see if it’s going to upgrade speed and you have LESS of a chance of upgrading speed.

    Green mods are even worse. A green mod with a speed secondary is guaranteed to upgrade speed at level 3. In this new system you have to level it all the way to 12 just to get a 25% shot to upgrade it.

    Am I missing something here or did they just make mods worse and make it darn near impossible for people with subpar mods to ever catch up to people with good mods? Currently if you farm mods a ton you have a shot at catching up but under this new system if you’re behind it will be even harder to catch up because you will have a far worse chance of upgrading speed.
    I missed that implication on a first read, but you're right. It does specifically say that secondary stats will be revealed before they're powered up in the new system - which is awful for precisely that reason. While this will slightly increase the odds of finding very high speed mods, since with slicing even lower-tier mods might turn out to get those higher speeds when it was impossible for them to before, the odds of getting middling-quality mods will go way down, because you can no longer have the guarantee of a speed increase on a green mod or the 50/50 on a blue, only a 1-in-4 at all times. And those middling-quality mods are kind of important for all of the not-arena characters in your roster (and until you get the really good mods, the arena characters too).

    Kitten it, and here I thought these mod changes might actually be good for a minute there...
  • SoonerJBD
    460 posts Member
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    For those that don’t want to read my whole post I’ll summarize it:

    Current System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 13.5k to upgrade and you have a 100% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    New System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 168.7k to upgrade and you have a 25% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    This would be option 1 that I mentioned above. It would make mod farming laughably inefficient as the green and blue mods that you most commonly get and rely on for the decent 9-12 speed secondaries they offer for non-arena squads would be worthless unless you spend nearly 178k to level them for a much smaller chance of a modest speed upgrade. Then if you hit speed, you could roll the dice again and hope to hit speed twice more via slicing. Basically it would take away the “better odds/lower stakes” aspect of lower tier mods and make every tier a roulette wheel spin with all your money on one number. And of course, since you can hit the jackpot on any spin, you’ll want to max upgrade even the crappy mods for that lottery level chance of getting a winner. Because people don’t understand how odds work.
  • SoonerJBD
    460 posts Member
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    For those that don’t want to read my whole post I’ll summarize it:

    Current System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 13.5k to upgrade and you have a 100% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    New System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 168.7k to upgrade and you have a 25% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    I mean, yes, that is true. But you have to keep a couple of things in mind here:

    1) Previously on a green tier starring mod with a speed secondary it maxed out at 10. Yes, you were guaranteed 10, but it couldn’t go any higher. Now you could possibly hit 25 with a green tier starting mod. For those of us who don’t care about more +10 speed mods and are searching for +20 speed mods, this could be better.

    2) It sounds like they are balancing mods. Right now only speed matters. But if balanced properly, knowing the other 3 secondary stats could be more important than knowing how often speed hits. Maybe a +5 speed mod with crit chance, offense is more useful on an attacker than a +10 speed mod with defense and heath.

    1. Green and blue mods obtained through farming have been the only cheap and efficient way to get decent secondary speed for the many squads you need to compete in Territory Wars and other areas of the game unless you switch mods constantly. That is being taken away. You will now have to spend 168k for a much lower chance at getting the same number of upgrades, but since you now have that much lower chance even with mods that don’t start with secondary speed, you should go ahead and spend 168k on every single mod you farm, just to be sure. And if you hit, you will of course want to spend these new mats (which will of course be available for purchase via crystals) for a further tiny chance at hitting the jackpot. Lottery scratchers for everyone!!!

    2. No, they are balancing mod sets, not stats. Changing the value of secondary stats would be a complete rework of the core mechanics of the game. What they are changing are set bonuses for the sets no one uses: tenacity, defense and maybe health. Those set bonuses will probably get enough of a buff that it might make sense to use them on a toon with the right synergy (defense set on a tank, for example).
  • Bulldog1205
    3534 posts Member
    SoonerJBD wrote: »
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    For those that don’t want to read my whole post I’ll summarize it:

    Current System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 13.5k to upgrade and you have a 100% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    New System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 168.7k to upgrade and you have a 25% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    I mean, yes, that is true. But you have to keep a couple of things in mind here:

    1) Previously on a green tier starring mod with a speed secondary it maxed out at 10. Yes, you were guaranteed 10, but it couldn’t go any higher. Now you could possibly hit 25 with a green tier starting mod. For those of us who don’t care about more +10 speed mods and are searching for +20 speed mods, this could be better.

    2) It sounds like they are balancing mods. Right now only speed matters. But if balanced properly, knowing the other 3 secondary stats could be more important than knowing how often speed hits. Maybe a +5 speed mod with crit chance, offense is more useful on an attacker than a +10 speed mod with defense and heath.

    1. Green and blue mods obtained through farming have been the only cheap and efficient way to get decent secondary speed for the many squads you need to compete in Territory Wars and other areas of the game unless you switch mods constantly. That is being taken away. You will now have to spend 168k for a much lower chance at getting the same number of upgrades, but since you now have that much lower chance even with mods that don’t start with secondary speed, you should go ahead and spend 168k on every single mod you farm, just to be sure. And if you hit, you will of course want to spend these new mats (which will of course be available for purchase via crystals) for a further tiny chance at hitting the jackpot. Lottery scratchers for everyone!!!

    2. No, they are balancing mod sets, not stats. Changing the value of secondary stats would be a complete rework of the core mechanics of the game. What they are changing are set bonuses for the sets no one uses: tenacity, defense and maybe health. Those set bonuses will probably get enough of a buff that it might make sense to use them on a toon with the right synergy (defense set on a tank, for example).

    I get it that you guys are upset about losing your green speed mods. I haven’t bought a green mod in I’m not sure how long. I don’t farm mods period. All I care about is purple or gold mods. If I get a +10 speed mod I’m disappointed because I don’t have much use for it, unless it’s crit damage primary.

    They’ve made it pretty clear 6 dot mods are coming. They said months ago that mod management would come with 6 dot mods. They said in this post that more mod updates will be released. I’d bet you 50k crystals 6 dot mods are coming with updated secondary stats.
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    Soooooo, we now need to:
    RNG for right mod shape
    RNG for right mod set
    RNG for right primary
    RNG for right secondary
    RNG grind for materials
    THEN
    RNG for the 25% chance it slices the right stat

    And this is better??

    Should have just stopped with mod sets, and not tried to overcomplicate it.
    Yes. Yes, this is better, because without this feature, lower-grade mods would remain lower-grade mods forever. While you can slice a mod and not get what you want, you at least have the option of slicing the mod which can only make your mod better. Nothing is being taken away.
    Still not a he.
  • Gorem
    1185 posts Member
    So:

    Everything you do firstly gives you more secondaries until its capped in this new system.

    If you splice a green lvl 1 mod, it will add the new secondaries up to gold.

    if you level a green lvl 1 mod to 12, it will now gain three new stats and then one of those new stats will be upgraded.

    With the upgrades to the stats happening after either phase, so splicing a green lvl 12 mod up to gold will upgrade three stats, or levelling a lvl 1 gold mod to 12 will upgrade them all (Like before)

    So their method of "showing us" what the stats will be, is simply changing mods to first give us those stats before any upgrades happen.

    What we need to know is, will the upgrade still firstly effect the original stat. Otherwise, getting green and blue mods now will be terrible, as we will have to splice them to gold first/level them up first (whichever ends up cheaper)?

    Its basically like we treating every single mod as a gold mod, it can become the best mod, essentially meaning It can now potentially be like every mod with speed gained after this update, can have very high speed, but every mod will require max investment to see it.

    Its an interesting change, on one hand, you could end up with epic mods, but on another, you could not. I will miss the guaranteed speed ups, but at the same time, we still will always have four chances to up the speed.
  • Yup, definitely less complicated. Mods are much clearer now.
  • Gorem
    1185 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Really, from what I can tell so far with this change, any mod that was not a gold mod before the update, will be worse then every mod gained after, unless they retroactively change those speed primary grey arrows to be grey again for those extra stats.
  • SoonerJBD
    460 posts Member
    SoonerJBD wrote: »
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    For those that don’t want to read my whole post I’ll summarize it:

    Current System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 13.5k to upgrade and you have a 100% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    New System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 168.7k to upgrade and you have a 25% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    I mean, yes, that is true. But you have to keep a couple of things in mind here:

    1) Previously on a green tier starring mod with a speed secondary it maxed out at 10. Yes, you were guaranteed 10, but it couldn’t go any higher. Now you could possibly hit 25 with a green tier starting mod. For those of us who don’t care about more +10 speed mods and are searching for +20 speed mods, this could be better.

    2) It sounds like they are balancing mods. Right now only speed matters. But if balanced properly, knowing the other 3 secondary stats could be more important than knowing how often speed hits. Maybe a +5 speed mod with crit chance, offense is more useful on an attacker than a +10 speed mod with defense and heath.

    1. Green and blue mods obtained through farming have been the only cheap and efficient way to get decent secondary speed for the many squads you need to compete in Territory Wars and other areas of the game unless you switch mods constantly. That is being taken away. You will now have to spend 168k for a much lower chance at getting the same number of upgrades, but since you now have that much lower chance even with mods that don’t start with secondary speed, you should go ahead and spend 168k on every single mod you farm, just to be sure. And if you hit, you will of course want to spend these new mats (which will of course be available for purchase via crystals) for a further tiny chance at hitting the jackpot. Lottery scratchers for everyone!!!

    2. No, they are balancing mod sets, not stats. Changing the value of secondary stats would be a complete rework of the core mechanics of the game. What they are changing are set bonuses for the sets no one uses: tenacity, defense and maybe health. Those set bonuses will probably get enough of a buff that it might make sense to use them on a toon with the right synergy (defense set on a tank, for example).

    I get it that you guys are upset about losing your green speed mods. I haven’t bought a green mod in I’m not sure how long. I don’t farm mods period. All I care about is purple or gold mods. If I get a +10 speed mod I’m disappointed because I don’t have much use for it, unless it’s crit damage primary.

    They’ve made it pretty clear 6 dot mods are coming. They said months ago that mod management would come with 6 dot mods. They said in this post that more mod updates will be released. I’d bet you 50k crystals 6 dot mods are coming with updated secondary stats.

    I have 3.3 million GP and 200 mods with at least 10 secondary speed. I still farm mods daily (and buy from the store when good purple and gold ones are available) because you can never have enough fast mods. If you never farm mods then you either 1. Have spent enough real money on this game to buy a house, or 2. You have terrible mods on a bunch of the toons you throw in for TW. Those of us who like competing understand that there is always a use for a +10 secondary speed mod.
  • thedrjojo
    725 posts Member
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Soooooo, we now need to:
    RNG for right mod shape
    RNG for right mod set
    RNG for right primary
    RNG for right secondary
    RNG grind for materials
    THEN
    RNG for the 25% chance it slices the right stat

    And this is better??

    Should have just stopped with mod sets, and not tried to overcomplicate it.
    Yes. Yes, this is better, because without this feature, lower-grade mods would remain lower-grade mods forever. While you can slice a mod and not get what you want, you at least have the option of slicing the mod which can only make your mod better. Nothing is being taken away.

    Yeah, instead of randomly getting 100 mods for a single good one (maybe), you can try to get 10 mods and splice them and get a few good ones? I'm optimistic about splicing... Until we find out how hard it will be to get splicing material...

    Also depends on the splicing material cost (and it will probably cost more for each level... More from Grey to green, green to blue, etc)

  • thedrjojo
    725 posts Member
    SoonerJBD wrote: »
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    For those that don’t want to read my whole post I’ll summarize it:

    Current System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 13.5k to upgrade and you have a 100% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    New System
    Green mod with speed secondary. It costs 168.7k to upgrade and you have a 25% chance to upgrade the speed secondary.

    I mean, yes, that is true. But you have to keep a couple of things in mind here:

    1) Previously on a green tier starring mod with a speed secondary it maxed out at 10. Yes, you were guaranteed 10, but it couldn’t go any higher. Now you could possibly hit 25 with a green tier starting mod. For those of us who don’t care about more +10 speed mods and are searching for +20 speed mods, this could be better.

    2) It sounds like they are balancing mods. Right now only speed matters. But if balanced properly, knowing the other 3 secondary stats could be more important than knowing how often speed hits. Maybe a +5 speed mod with crit chance, offense is more useful on an attacker than a +10 speed mod with defense and heath.

    1. Green and blue mods obtained through farming have been the only cheap and efficient way to get decent secondary speed for the many squads you need to compete in Territory Wars and other areas of the game unless you switch mods constantly. That is being taken away. You will now have to spend 168k for a much lower chance at getting the same number of upgrades, but since you now have that much lower chance even with mods that don’t start with secondary speed, you should go ahead and spend 168k on every single mod you farm, just to be sure. And if you hit, you will of course want to spend these new mats (which will of course be available for purchase via crystals) for a further tiny chance at hitting the jackpot. Lottery scratchers for everyone!!!

    2. No, they are balancing mod sets, not stats. Changing the value of secondary stats would be a complete rework of the core mechanics of the game. What they are changing are set bonuses for the sets no one uses: tenacity, defense and maybe health. Those set bonuses will probably get enough of a buff that it might make sense to use them on a toon with the right synergy (defense set on a tank, for example).

    I get it that you guys are upset about losing your green speed mods. I haven’t bought a green mod in I’m not sure how long. I don’t farm mods period. All I care about is purple or gold mods. If I get a +10 speed mod I’m disappointed because I don’t have much use for it, unless it’s crit damage primary.

    They’ve made it pretty clear 6 dot mods are coming. They said months ago that mod management would come with 6 dot mods. They said in this post that more mod updates will be released. I’d bet you 50k crystals 6 dot mods are coming with updated secondary stats.

    They talk about splicing 5 dot mods and to not sell them any more... All this to then make 5 dot mods obsolete with 6 dot mods? I don't think they are coming with these upgrades/at all...
  • SoonerJBD
    460 posts Member
    Slicing. Not splicing.
  • NicWester
    7804 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    current system you upgrade stat 1 and 2 at 3 and 6, then unlock the other stats at 9 and 12.

    Most of the time, but not always. I've had enough green mods with 5 speed that develop into gold mods still with 5 speed but now with 400 Protection to know, first hand, that just often enough to be annoying the game will give you a new secondary stat at level 3 instead of upgrading the one that's already there.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
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