Star Wars: The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

Replies

  • Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.
  • Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
  • CaptainRex wrote: »
    Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    But he still was in it. Personally, if I was Mark, I would have bailed. But maybe money...
  • kalidor
    1678 posts Member
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    But he still was in it. Personally, if I was Mark, I would have bailed. But maybe money...

    Contract obligation, more likely. They probably signed him for the new trilogy. He did TFA, and by the time he saw the script for TLJ, it was probably more trouble to get out of than it was worth.

    But I see his point - the main thing that really bothered me about the movie was that Luke was intending, if even for a second, to kill his nephew - Han and Leia's son. I can forgive spacewalk leia, and even the pretty awful Canto bit (ffwd ftw). But Luke considering murder of a child (?) is just way too out of character. I think it could have been handled in a much better way - such as Luke threatening to expel Ben, Ben leaving, then coming back later with the knights of ren after taking up as Snoke's apprentice. The way it was done in the movie was way too heavy handed.
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • kalidor wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    But he still was in it. Personally, if I was Mark, I would have bailed. But maybe money...

    Contract obligation, more likely. They probably signed him for the new trilogy. He did TFA, and by the time he saw the script for TLJ, it was probably more trouble to get out of than it was worth.

    But I see his point - the main thing that really bothered me about the movie was that Luke was intending, if even for a second, to kill his nephew - Han and Leia's son. I can forgive spacewalk leia, and even the pretty awful Canto bit (ffwd ftw). But Luke considering murder of a child (?) is just way too out of character. I think it could have been handled in a much better way - such as Luke threatening to expel Ben, Ben leaving, then coming back later with the knights of ren after taking up as Snoke's apprentice. The way it was done in the movie was way too heavy handed.

    How do we know we can trust Kylo's story? Perhaps it was a fabrication to justify his actions.
  • DuneSeaFarmer
    2997 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    Just add a new rating to include social issues etc, then you can make a decision to watch the film or not.
    Post edited by DuneSeaFarmer on
    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • CaptainRex wrote: »

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    Hamill has said over and over again that his comments about the not liking the script and direction of the character were overblown. To keep acting like he was vehemently opposed to this film is doing a disservice to the man who is Luke Skywalker. Here is just one example: https://www.avclub.com/mark-hamill-regrets-ever-making-his-debates-with-rian-j-1823713825
  • kalidor
    1678 posts Member
    kalidor wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    But he still was in it. Personally, if I was Mark, I would have bailed. But maybe money...

    Contract obligation, more likely. They probably signed him for the new trilogy. He did TFA, and by the time he saw the script for TLJ, it was probably more trouble to get out of than it was worth.

    But I see his point - the main thing that really bothered me about the movie was that Luke was intending, if even for a second, to kill his nephew - Han and Leia's son. I can forgive spacewalk leia, and even the pretty awful Canto bit (ffwd ftw). But Luke considering murder of a child (?) is just way too out of character. I think it could have been handled in a much better way - such as Luke threatening to expel Ben, Ben leaving, then coming back later with the knights of ren after taking up as Snoke's apprentice. The way it was done in the movie was way too heavy handed.

    How do we know we can trust Kylo's story? Perhaps it was a fabrication to justify his actions.

    Because Luke himself later confirmed it in his second recounting of the events.
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • Something I was not aware of, many have wondered how TLJ would have been with JJ directing. JJ was the executive producer of TLJ. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0009190/
    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • Chucko_marek
    2817 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    kalidor wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    But he still was in it. Personally, if I was Mark, I would have bailed. But maybe money...

    Contract obligation, more likely. They probably signed him for the new trilogy. He did TFA, and by the time he saw the script for TLJ, it was probably more trouble to get out of than it was worth.

    But I see his point - the main thing that really bothered me about the movie was that Luke was intending, if even for a second, to kill his nephew - Han and Leia's son. I can forgive spacewalk leia, and even the pretty awful Canto bit (ffwd ftw). But Luke considering murder of a child (?) is just way too out of character. I think it could have been handled in a much better way - such as Luke threatening to expel Ben, Ben leaving, then coming back later with the knights of ren after taking up as Snoke's apprentice. The way it was done in the movie was way too heavy handed.

    How do we know we can trust Kylo's story? Perhaps it was a fabrication to justify his actions.

    Because Luke himself later confirmed it in his second recounting of the events.

    I will have to double check that. I don't remember Luke telling the story again. That would change my perspective. Luke was supposed to represent the light side in a dark galaxy.
    But maybe they're blending in the original story, where Luke joins the dark side, taking Vader's place at the end of ROTJ.
  • CaptainRex
    2753 posts Member
    Something I was not aware of, many have wondered how TLJ would have been with JJ directing. JJ was the executive producer of TLJ. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0009190/

    And Christoper Nolan was the executive producer on BvS...
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
  • CaptainRex
    2753 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    CaptainRex wrote: »

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    Hamill has said over and over again that his comments about the not liking the script and direction of the character were overblown. To keep acting like he was vehemently opposed to this film is doing a disservice to the man who is Luke Skywalker. Here is just one example: https://www.avclub.com/mark-hamill-regrets-ever-making-his-debates-with-rian-j-1823713825

    (From article) "and near-universal praise for Johnson and his installment of the franchise"
    mj-laughing.gif
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
  • kalidor
    1678 posts Member
    kalidor wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    But he still was in it. Personally, if I was Mark, I would have bailed. But maybe money...

    Contract obligation, more likely. They probably signed him for the new trilogy. He did TFA, and by the time he saw the script for TLJ, it was probably more trouble to get out of than it was worth.

    But I see his point - the main thing that really bothered me about the movie was that Luke was intending, if even for a second, to kill his nephew - Han and Leia's son. I can forgive spacewalk leia, and even the pretty awful Canto bit (ffwd ftw). But Luke considering murder of a child (?) is just way too out of character. I think it could have been handled in a much better way - such as Luke threatening to expel Ben, Ben leaving, then coming back later with the knights of ren after taking up as Snoke's apprentice. The way it was done in the movie was way too heavy handed.

    How do we know we can trust Kylo's story? Perhaps it was a fabrication to justify his actions.

    Because Luke himself later confirmed it in his second recounting of the events.

    I will have to double check that. I don't remember Luke telling the story again. That would change my perspective. Luke was supposed to represent the light side in a dark galaxy.
    But maybe they're blending in the original story, where Luke joins the dark side, taking Vader's place at the end of ROTJ.

    Kylo's telling to Rey definitely shows a more rabid looking Luke, but Luke admitted to Rey after she found out that he did indeed have the thought to kill Kylo for a split second. I still have a hard time believing that Luke would choose that solution, even for a moment, after such a huge leap of faith with Vader in RotJ. (I'm in the the "generally liked the movie" camp, btw). The rest of the movies flaws I can generally write off, but that one sticks with me.
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • CaptainRex wrote: »
    Something I was not aware of, many have wondered how TLJ would have been with JJ directing. JJ was the executive producer of TLJ. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0009190/

    And Christoper Nolan was the executive producer on BvS...

    I have to admit I had to look him up, then had my Doh moment
    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • kalidor wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    But he still was in it. Personally, if I was Mark, I would have bailed. But maybe money...

    Contract obligation, more likely. They probably signed him for the new trilogy. He did TFA, and by the time he saw the script for TLJ, it was probably more trouble to get out of than it was worth.

    But I see his point - the main thing that really bothered me about the movie was that Luke was intending, if even for a second, to kill his nephew - Han and Leia's son. I can forgive spacewalk leia, and even the pretty awful Canto bit (ffwd ftw). But Luke considering murder of a child (?) is just way too out of character. I think it could have been handled in a much better way - such as Luke threatening to expel Ben, Ben leaving, then coming back later with the knights of ren after taking up as Snoke's apprentice. The way it was done in the movie was way too heavy handed.

    How do we know we can trust Kylo's story? Perhaps it was a fabrication to justify his actions.

    Because Luke himself later confirmed it in his second recounting of the events.

    I will have to double check that. I don't remember Luke telling the story again. That would change my perspective. Luke was supposed to represent the light side in a dark galaxy.
    But maybe they're blending in the original story, where Luke joins the dark side, taking Vader's place at the end of ROTJ.

    Kylo's telling to Rey definitely shows a more rabid looking Luke, but Luke admitted to Rey after she found out that he did indeed have the thought to kill Kylo for a split second. I still have a hard time believing that Luke would choose that solution, even for a moment, after such a huge leap of faith with Vader in RotJ. (I'm in the the "generally liked the movie" camp, btw). The rest of the movies flaws I can generally write off, but that one sticks with me.

    It's one of my big ones, and I liked LJ more than FA. It goes back to psychology, we are naturally predispose to believing a good guy and that the bad guy always lies, that's why Yoda had to confirm Vader was Luke's father. Vader was the bad guy and couldn't be trusted.
  • DuneSeaFarmer
    2997 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    kalidor wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    But he still was in it. Personally, if I was Mark, I would have bailed. But maybe money...

    Contract obligation, more likely. They probably signed him for the new trilogy. He did TFA, and by the time he saw the script for TLJ, it was probably more trouble to get out of than it was worth.

    But I see his point - the main thing that really bothered me about the movie was that Luke was intending, if even for a second, to kill his nephew - Han and Leia's son. I can forgive spacewalk leia, and even the pretty awful Canto bit (ffwd ftw). But Luke considering murder of a child (?) is just way too out of character. I think it could have been handled in a much better way - such as Luke threatening to expel Ben, Ben leaving, then coming back later with the knights of ren after taking up as Snoke's apprentice. The way it was done in the movie was way too heavy handed.

    How do we know we can trust Kylo's story? Perhaps it was a fabrication to justify his actions.

    Because Luke himself later confirmed it in his second recounting of the events.

    I will have to double check that. I don't remember Luke telling the story again. That would change my perspective. Luke was supposed to represent the light side in a dark galaxy.
    But maybe they're blending in the original story, where Luke joins the dark side, taking Vader's place at the end of ROTJ.

    Kylo's telling to Rey definitely shows a more rabid looking Luke, but Luke admitted to Rey after she found out that he did indeed have the thought to kill Kylo for a split second. I still have a hard time believing that Luke would choose that solution, even for a moment, after such a huge leap of faith with Vader in RotJ. (I'm in the the "generally liked the movie" camp, btw). The rest of the movies flaws I can generally write off, but that one sticks with me.




    "Owen, you can't keep him on the farm, he has too much of his father in him"

    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • Boo
    3444 posts Member
    kalidor wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    But he still was in it. Personally, if I was Mark, I would have bailed. But maybe money...

    Contract obligation, more likely. They probably signed him for the new trilogy. He did TFA, and by the time he saw the script for TLJ, it was probably more trouble to get out of than it was worth.

    But I see his point - the main thing that really bothered me about the movie was that Luke was intending, if even for a second, to kill his nephew - Han and Leia's son. I can forgive spacewalk leia, and even the pretty awful Canto bit (ffwd ftw). But Luke considering murder of a child (?) is just way too out of character. I think it could have been handled in a much better way - such as Luke threatening to expel Ben, Ben leaving, then coming back later with the knights of ren after taking up as Snoke's apprentice. The way it was done in the movie was way too heavy handed.

    How do we know we can trust Kylo's story? Perhaps it was a fabrication to justify his actions.

    Because Luke himself later confirmed it in his second recounting of the events.

    I will have to double check that. I don't remember Luke telling the story again. That would change my perspective. Luke was supposed to represent the light side in a dark galaxy.
    But maybe they're blending in the original story, where Luke joins the dark side, taking Vader's place at the end of ROTJ.

    Kylo's telling to Rey definitely shows a more rabid looking Luke, but Luke admitted to Rey after she found out that he did indeed have the thought to kill Kylo for a split second. I still have a hard time believing that Luke would choose that solution, even for a moment, after such a huge leap of faith with Vader in RotJ. (I'm in the the "generally liked the movie" camp, btw). The rest of the movies flaws I can generally write off, but that one sticks with me.




    "Owen, you can't keep him on the farm, he has too much of his father in him"

    I don't think that means he would kill a child who has done no wrong, compared to saving a sith lord - It just doesn't add up at all.
  • Boo wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    But he still was in it. Personally, if I was Mark, I would have bailed. But maybe money...

    Contract obligation, more likely. They probably signed him for the new trilogy. He did TFA, and by the time he saw the script for TLJ, it was probably more trouble to get out of than it was worth.

    But I see his point - the main thing that really bothered me about the movie was that Luke was intending, if even for a second, to kill his nephew - Han and Leia's son. I can forgive spacewalk leia, and even the pretty awful Canto bit (ffwd ftw). But Luke considering murder of a child (?) is just way too out of character. I think it could have been handled in a much better way - such as Luke threatening to expel Ben, Ben leaving, then coming back later with the knights of ren after taking up as Snoke's apprentice. The way it was done in the movie was way too heavy handed.

    How do we know we can trust Kylo's story? Perhaps it was a fabrication to justify his actions.

    Because Luke himself later confirmed it in his second recounting of the events.

    I will have to double check that. I don't remember Luke telling the story again. That would change my perspective. Luke was supposed to represent the light side in a dark galaxy.
    But maybe they're blending in the original story, where Luke joins the dark side, taking Vader's place at the end of ROTJ.

    Kylo's telling to Rey definitely shows a more rabid looking Luke, but Luke admitted to Rey after she found out that he did indeed have the thought to kill Kylo for a split second. I still have a hard time believing that Luke would choose that solution, even for a moment, after such a huge leap of faith with Vader in RotJ. (I'm in the the "generally liked the movie" camp, btw). The rest of the movies flaws I can generally write off, but that one sticks with me.




    "Owen, you can't keep him on the farm, he has too much of his father in him"

    I don't think that means he would kill a child who has done no wrong, compared to saving a sith lord - It just doesn't add up at all.

    That didn't stop him from trying.
  • Boo
    3444 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    kalidor wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Kelarn wrote: »
    I just want to know why (after Carrie passed), Rian didn't have the foresight to change the ending of the movie and keep Luke alive to carry IX in her place. Guess Rey is single handedly taking out the Knights of Ren (if they ever show up).

    Because Rian is a terrible writer/director who should've never been allowed anywhere near something as big as Star Wars that's clearly way over his head.

    There are several writers that have been used for the last 4 movies, Perhaps they should've streamlined the process and gone with the best one? but I guess there was no way to know until after the scripts were written and the movies made.

    Mark Hamill knew. He started complaining about the script the second he got it.

    But he still was in it. Personally, if I was Mark, I would have bailed. But maybe money...

    Contract obligation, more likely. They probably signed him for the new trilogy. He did TFA, and by the time he saw the script for TLJ, it was probably more trouble to get out of than it was worth.

    But I see his point - the main thing that really bothered me about the movie was that Luke was intending, if even for a second, to kill his nephew - Han and Leia's son. I can forgive spacewalk leia, and even the pretty awful Canto bit (ffwd ftw). But Luke considering murder of a child (?) is just way too out of character. I think it could have been handled in a much better way - such as Luke threatening to expel Ben, Ben leaving, then coming back later with the knights of ren after taking up as Snoke's apprentice. The way it was done in the movie was way too heavy handed.

    How do we know we can trust Kylo's story? Perhaps it was a fabrication to justify his actions.

    Because Luke himself later confirmed it in his second recounting of the events.

    I will have to double check that. I don't remember Luke telling the story again. That would change my perspective. Luke was supposed to represent the light side in a dark galaxy.
    But maybe they're blending in the original story, where Luke joins the dark side, taking Vader's place at the end of ROTJ.

    Kylo's telling to Rey definitely shows a more rabid looking Luke, but Luke admitted to Rey after she found out that he did indeed have the thought to kill Kylo for a split second. I still have a hard time believing that Luke would choose that solution, even for a moment, after such a huge leap of faith with Vader in RotJ. (I'm in the the "generally liked the movie" camp, btw). The rest of the movies flaws I can generally write off, but that one sticks with me.




    "Owen, you can't keep him on the farm, he has too much of his father in him"

    I don't think that means he would kill a child who has done no wrong, compared to saving a sith lord - It just doesn't add up at all.

    That didn't stop him from trying.


    I don't understand your point. What do you mean?

    For a positive character that believes in good vs evil and how good should triumph decides to try and break his core beliefs into murdering a child in order to be "good"?

    That still does not make any sense - Luke Skywalker is broken in TLJ, thanks to Johnson.
  • That didn't stop him from trying.[/quote]


    I don't understand your point. What do you mean?

    For a positive character that believes in good vs evil and how good should triumph decides to try and break his core beliefs into murdering a child in order to be "good"?

    That still does not make any sense - Luke Skywalker is broken in TLJ, thanks to Johnson.[/quote]

    What Luke does in the movie and what we expect from his character are two different things now. No amount of complaining can change that. I don't care for the movies, but it is what it is at this point... At least Solo and Rogue One were decent. lol
  • Boo
    3444 posts Member
    That didn't stop him from trying.


    I don't understand your point. What do you mean?

    For a positive character that believes in good vs evil and how good should triumph decides to try and break his core beliefs into murdering a child in order to be "good"?

    That still does not make any sense - Luke Skywalker is broken in TLJ, thanks to Johnson.[/quote]

    What Luke does in the movie and what we expect from his character are two different things now. No amount of complaining can change that. I don't care for the movies, but it is what it is at this point... At least Solo and Rogue One were decent. lol[/quote]

    Can't argue with that Bro. It goes to show these new movies just do anything they like to any character no matter what, and that is exactly what they are doing.

    I agree with Rogue One - best Disney Star Wars movie yet (didn't see Solo yet - due to boycott).
  • Boo wrote: »
    Rebel_yell wrote: »
    No Star Wars movie has been entirely logical. Most people are comparing the new Star Wars films to not just the old trilogies, but also the plethora of additional content that was released to support a lot of the gaps. (books, interviews, etc)

    Here are two other points I want people to consider:

    1) a bolt from chewy's blaster is lethal. Kylo was not only unfocused after killing Han, but the rest of his "force" attention was on keeping himself from dying. His arrogance allowed Finn a lucky strike. His damaged state allowed Rey to win.

    2) Rey can utilize the force better than Luke could earlier in time because she BELIEVES it can be used that way. Example, Luke doesn't believe he can pull the x-wing from the swamp (it's not like he got a lot of force specific training before yoda asked him to do that). Rey does believe the force is used to "move rocks". So when presented by the challenge, she doesn't doubt that she can harness the force to achieve that task.

    Ok, 3 points. All this talk of not knowing Rey's lineage is nonsense. The only other Jedi who's lineage we know are Anakin and Luke. This movie was obviously an attempt to move the franchise from being about this specific family and towards a more overarching theme of good vs. evil. Kylo basically beat us over the head with that theme during TLJ.

    Have to argue your points here - as they are extremely flawed.

    Yes we do not know lineage of other jedi (other than the skywalkers) because other jedi were pretty generic. It is known that (at the time of the PT) Mace and especially Yoda were extremely gifted with their force potential.

    A child Anakin superseded them both - by a lot! This was explained because Anakin was part of an ancient Jedi Prophecy - he was conceived/created by the force itself - he was like force Jesus.

    That power (although slightly diluted) was passed to Luke & Leia (Leia never really used her abilities - shame). But Luke did and was the only hope (without Leia rising to the challenge) to end Vader (still the chosen one) and his Sith Master - Yoda and Obi wan could not do this!

    (Yoda and Obi wan believed Luke's power was enough to do the deed and did not count on Luke's ability to redeem his father - but that's another issue).

    Luke had multiple failures - frm deflecting blaster bolts with training remotes, to moving rocks, R2 and of course his X-Wing. And of course, defeated by Vader having his hand cut off.

    Lets remember that Luke trained (briefly) with Obi wan - he then trained for days possibly weeks with Yoda (Luke's time on Dagobah lasted the time it took the Falcon to travel from Hoth to Bespin - without lightspeed!)

    Rey had 2 lessons with Luke, over the course of the fuel life expectancy in TLJ (stated by tFirst Order as 18 hours!!!!).

    Rey's lineage is important because she never fails. She pulls off amazing force techniques without being taught. She lifts entire sides of mountains - what, because she believes she can????

    Yes Kylo was injured, but Vader was in a cumbersome suite, and still not devoting his full strength to Luke and still managed to cut Luke's hand off. And Luke had lightsaber training from Obi wan and the Dagobah cave! Rey had none!!!!

    Rey not only defeated Kylo in lightsaber combat but also resisted his mind probed and in fact reversed his mind probe - WHILE HE WAS AT FULL STRENGTH!

    Luke's lineage and power in the force comes from the force itself (Anakin aka Force Jesus) - Rey is a nobody.

    Your theories and arguments are deeply flawed!

    Anakin had a higher ceiling, but he wasn't more powerful than Yoda or Mace. Hence, why Yoda sent Obi-Wan to battle Anakin and Yoda went to battle EP. To quote Yoda, while Anakin was born of the Force, "A prophecy that misread could have been."

    Why would Luke's force abilities be slightly diluted? Why can't he be just as or stronger in midachlorians than Anakin? if you're trying to apply genetic logic to a fantasy series, I have bad news for you.

    Obi-Wan already beat Anakin. He couldn't bring himself to kill him with his own Saber.

    This is actually one of the parts of the TLJ that really bothers me. She wasn't there for 18 hours. She had been there since after they destroyed Starkiller base. The movie had two stories that were following two different time arcs.

    Rey had been training with a staff her entire life. Picking up a saber isn't that different.

    Rey's lineage is not important. It's just not. Her parent's don't need to be anything. Yoda had no lineage. Mace had no lineage. Obi-wan had no lineage. All were major parts of the SW franchise. To say Kylo should be more powerful than Rey because he's a descendant of Skywalker just has zero basis.

    It bugged me that she was able to use the Jedi Mind Trick. I don't mind that she could resist Kylo because mind tricks only work on the "weak minded", but doing a reverse mind trick, and influencing the stormtrooper were a big stretch that doesn't mesh with the universe. However, these are both in TFA and have nothing to do with TLJ.

    No they're not, but good try conflating two separate movies to attack TLJ and not using common sense.
  • Boo
    3444 posts Member

    Oh dear - please see your flawed arguments responded to in bold below:



    Anakin had a higher ceiling, but he wasn't more powerful than Yoda or Mace. Hence, why Yoda sent Obi-Wan to battle Anakin and Yoda went to battle EP. To quote Yoda, while Anakin was born of the Force, "A prophecy that misread could have been."

    Anakin had the most midachlorians ever seen in a life form - does that mean he had more knowledge and experience to use the force to his max potential?...No. Having said that he was trained in the Jedi way (force lightsaber combat, agility etc.) since he was like 10 years old. He also began dabbling in the dark side in ROTS. Rey had no training whatsoever before she could combat Kylo's mind probe, defeat him lightsaber combat and telekinesis and use mind tricks!

    Why would Luke's force abilities be slightly diluted? Why can't he be just as or stronger in midachlorians than Anakin? if you're trying to apply genetic logic to a fantasy series, I have bad news for you.

    Why is it flawed - Lucas brought midachlorians into lore - which form part of a force sensitive person's cells - its genetic! That is why Qui Gon was keen to ask who Anakin's father was and why Luke says the force runs strong in his family. What point can you make as to say my genetic argument is flawed????

    Obi-Wan already beat Anakin. He couldn't bring himself to kill him with his own Saber.

    Anakin's overconfidence with power was his downfall - He and Obi Wan were actually evenly matched.

    This is actually one of the parts of the TLJ that really bothers me. She wasn't there for 18 hours. She had been there since after they destroyed Starkiller base. The movie had two stories that were following two different time arcs.

    Yes there are two story arcs, but she arrived at Ach-To at the same time the Resistance were starting to evacuate their base, following the events of TFA. At best Rey was only there a few days, and we know she only received 2 lessons from Luke (3 if you include the deleted scene - which wasn't much of an actual lesson). Again, Luke was on Dagobah training with Yoda the entire time it took the Falcon to travel from Hoth to Bespin - from one star system to another...without hyperdrive/lightspeed! Luke was likely training with Yoda daily for weeks or months - more than a few days with 2-3 lessons!

    Rey had been training with a staff her entire life. Picking up a saber isn't that different.

    Wrong - I have trained in weapons. The mechanics of a staff are very different than a sword...very different. I wouldn't be surprised if Rey builds herself a double bladed saber for E9.

    Rey's lineage is not important. It's just not. Her parent's don't need to be anything. Yoda had no lineage. Mace had no lineage. Obi-wan had no lineage. All were major parts of the SW franchise. To say Kylo should be more powerful than Rey because he's a descendant of Skywalker just has zero basis.

    If she was an average Jedi, then I agree that her lineage is not important. However, when comparing her to the Skywalker lineage and she outclasses Kylo, Luke and even Anakin, with little training there's a problem. So, in that regard her lineage is important.

    It bugged me that she was able to use the Jedi Mind Trick. I don't mind that she could resist Kylo because mind tricks only work on the "weak minded", but doing a reverse mind trick, and influencing the stormtrooper were a big stretch that doesn't mesh with the universe. However, these are both in TFA and have nothing to do with TLJ.

    Kylo was using a mind probe not a mind trick. He was pulling information out of her brain - that has nothing to do with being weak minded. She was able to not only shield her thoughts from Kylo but reversed the process onto him, which was crazy, I agree with you there, same with using mind trick on 007, I mean the FOST.

    No they're not, but good try conflating two separate movies to attack TLJ and not using common sense.

    I think you are the one who has flawed logic and lack of common sense...sorry.
  • Kylo trying to probe her mind reminded me of Snape trying to teach Harry to guard his mind against intrusions. Kylo even looks like Snape lol
    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • Kylo trying to probe her mind reminded me of Snape trying to teach Harry to guard his mind against intrusions. Kylo even looks like Snape lol

    That's why I call Unmasked Kylo Handsome Snape.
  • Why does she have to be related to anyone to be strong in the force , thats just an assinine argument. Jedi didnt have emotional attachments remember, so no family or kids , so how did any of them get their power? The force is in everything in some more than others. Was Maces or yodas families the most powerful before, since they were during the prequels, then everyone should of known of the emporer before hand as someone so powerful in the force wouldve had to have a powerful force family to start with , lets see the movie before we start complaining huh?

    And as for movies with plotholes , yall forget the biggest one , the one R1 was created to explain , why the most powerful battlestation in existence ever, had basically a self destruct mechanism built in, hey one torpedo and we can destroy a planet sized ship. So stop overanalyzing and enjoy the movies
  • CaptainRex
    2753 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Why does she have to be related to anyone to be strong in the force

    Because Rey's parents were specifically highlighted in Force Awakens, therefore, "nobody's" is an insufficient answer. One of the MANY results of Kathleen Kennedy not planning a narrative for the sequels.
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
  • CaptainRex wrote: »
    Why does she have to be related to anyone to be strong in the force

    Because Rey's parents were specifically highlighted in Force Awakens, therefore, "nobody's" is an insufficient answer. One of the MANY results of Kathleen Kennedy not planning a narrative for the sequels.

    Highlighted by who ?
  • CaptainRex
    2753 posts Member
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Why does she have to be related to anyone to be strong in the force

    Because Rey's parents were specifically highlighted in Force Awakens, therefore, "nobody's" is an insufficient answer. One of the MANY results of Kathleen Kennedy not planning a narrative for the sequels.

    Highlighted by who ?

    The movie. Remember when they made multiple mentions to her parents, and made sure when you excited the theater, your 2 biggest questions were "Who are Rey's parents?", and "Who is Snoke?".
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
  • CaptainRex wrote: »
    CaptainRex wrote: »
    Why does she have to be related to anyone to be strong in the force

    Because Rey's parents were specifically highlighted in Force Awakens, therefore, "nobody's" is an insufficient answer. One of the MANY results of Kathleen Kennedy not planning a narrative for the sequels.

    Highlighted by who ?

    The movie. Remember when they made multiple mentions to her parents, and made sure when you excited the theater, your 2 biggest questions were "Who are Rey's parents?", and "Who is Snoke?".

    You mean they mentioned that an orphan ,the main character mind you , wondered who her parents were, omg , thats just so outrageous. Why would an orphan wonder who their parents were smh, has there ever been a movie with an orphan as a main character that didnt care about where they came from.
    And if the first movie of a trilogy left you with questions , then it did its job. Thats what they are supposed to do smh. If they answer everything in the first 2 why watch anymore lmao
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