Bonds of Weakness Change Followup (MEGA)

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Sunnie1978
2937 posts Moderator
edited July 2018
DEV POST
CG_TopHat wrote: »
As an addendum to our post, we wanted to reach out and provide an update about yesterday’s fix. It appears that the fix we put in yesterday (where at 20 stacks, Bonds of Weakness imposes a Max Health healing penalty) has a bug in it. This affects characters with Max Health increases, such as some healers or Asajj (her unique) which will result in them not being able to heal to 90% of their actual health once their Max Health has been increased. We have a lead on the bug and will tackle it on Monday morning as soon as we get in.

I’ll also personally say this bug is frustrating for me. More importantly, I know it’s frustrating for you and makes it feel like we didn’t give you the level of polish you deserve. When we make structural changes to the raid, or any large system in the game, we want it to roll out as cleanly as possible. We moved quickly on this change because the introduction of Critolyte showed some structural changes in the ways players invested and we needed to address it very quickly. This resulted in a rushed deployment with issues and for that we apologize.

We’ve been monitoring the sentiment and forum threads and there is a standout we’d like to address. We recognize that we have introduced some uncertainty about the value of Old Daka with the announcement of the upcoming changes to Nightsister Zombie. When we release the changes to Nightsister Zombie, we’re going to be making a refund to all players that have Zeta’d Old Daka. What this practically means is that for all Zeta’d Old Dakas in the game, we’re going to un-Zeta the ability and give you back the ability materials in an inbox message. If you want to re-Zeta Daka, you simply need to use the refunded materials to apply it again or on any other character of your choosing.

Finally, we’re also going to continue to monitor the live environment to make sure the 20 stack limit to Bonds of Weakness is the “right” amount. Initial raid completion data is showing that Nightsisters are still one of the dominant strategies in the Sith Triumvirate raid, but we will continue to observe. We will be investigating early next week, what game implications it has to bump the limit a bit further and whether or not we should move the limit up.

Thanks again for your dedication and passion.

DEV POST

Replies

  • What's taking so long for a new credit heist??? Seems like it should have happened by now.
  • crzydroid
    7252 posts Moderator
    It is rando every 6-12 days, and with a few past exceptions, doesn't occurs on weekends. Looks like last one was 10 days ago:

    http://www.crouchingrancor.com/credit-heist-history/

    So Monday or Tuesday might be a safe bet.
  • Hi guys —

    This isn’t another angry post. I understand if you have to nerf the NS. That is completely within your purview if the game isn’t designed the way you’d like it to be. Is there any recourse for someone who has spent 4 zetas and massive amounts of gear on that team though? I had truly thought this was a legitimate team that would not get nerfed (no infinite loop), so it really stinks when I’ve let me built this team up and spent real money on gear for them and then it gets changed after the fact. I was wondering if it was possible to just reset our NS characters to level one with no gear and restore the resources to my inventory. I do believe legally has to be soft fraud (misrepresentation of existing fact that causes one party to act and suffer damages), and I know that wasn’t your intention so I would appreciate it if you could help out with this.

    Thank you!
  • zhtd17
    948 posts Member
    limiting healing to below 20 bonds already made daka's zeta useless, even without changing zombie mechanics.
  • Make it 50 and change isolate mechanics, not that hard to do.
    20 is absurd
  • If they left healing up to ~50 instead 20 bounds, it's not effect any standard strategy's and needn't to make zDaka any reverts. Pity :smile:
  • LynnYoda
    1017 posts Member
    no offence to you @CG_TopHat as you have been good with communication but after all the previous promises + posts being ignored why should any of the player base believe any of this or even accept it.
    have a look at the sith raid post which was started by sbcrumb + totally ignored, when was the last time carrie even spoke on here?
    i know your trying to calm the flames but do you seriously see that working and with this much of a mess up on a friday why arent the devs in the office today to fix it?
  • Seriously guys...why implement this on a FRIDAY NIGHT knowing there could be bugs. Seems super unplanned and unorganized. Y’all act like every one in the game was soloing the raid.
  • Why not simply give everyone with a zeta:d Daka the materials for another zeta WITHOUT removing hers? Or everyone who has completer Tier 5 or better? Now we would have something slightly resembling some kind of compensation instead of yet another insult.
  • So they are willing to work on the weekend to nerf a team that benefits players, but not fix a bug they created that hurts players. This is what makes everyone get so angry.
  • Hope you saved some bazooka ammo for the next time you need to kill a fly. Actually, a more apt comparison would be pointing the bazooka at the ground and firing... you happened to get the bug, but you also blew off your feet and broke a lot of other stuff. Maybe wait next time instead of patching while y’all have one foot out the door for the weekend?

    Given how few 7* Trayas there are out there, would letting this go over the weekend (with a clear message that you’re going to fix this exploit) have been so bad?

    I guess not, but you couldn’t have forseen that. /s
  • Cuzzins
    345 posts Member
    Honestly, if we introduced a bug that broke a production system on a Friday, you can be sure I'd be getting phone calls on Saturday to work on fixing it. We are a production system, vast amounts of money are flowing here, ok, lives aren't at danger, but you've still broken things for your clients.

    The other issue is that you guys seem to be able to rush out things that serve the top 1 to 2% of guilds and puts their members on a level playing field. But when we ask for challenge gear removal from raid rewards and better gear to help us improve towards Heroic, they fall on death ears. Why do you not care about leveling the playing field for those of us in the other 98%.

    This isn't the damage control response we deserved. You have ways to avoid the Critolyte without killing the viability of toons that people have invested money in (many folks invested in Daka more than just the zeta, and possibly in NS overall) - it seems like you just don't want to.
  • MeshmeZ
    24 posts Member
    its "personally frustrating to you" but not enough to care to fix something you guys screwed up if it interferes with your weekend.

    HERES AN IDEA, FIX ISOLATE, DONT NERF SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN WORKING THE SAME WAY FOR ALMOST A YEAR, WITH NO ISSUE.

    Cant wait for them to send a middle finger emoji to our inbox and call it a zeta.
  • auto303615_8326
    1 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Devs,

    I literally spent thousands of dollars in the month of July building my NS squad. I built it purely to solo P4 Nihilis.
    I did not build the cheese squad, I have Assaj,OD,MT,Talia,Zombie. I have a single Zeta invested in the squad at this point (thank god)

    Your recent decisions have impacted the value that I see in this squad.

    Post edited by Sunnie1978 on
  • @Sunnie1978 thank you for posting this in the other megathread.

    @CG_TopHat this is a good step, but- there is also gear to consider. Also- Asajj’s leadership.
    While I’m sure - Daka zeta is the obvious one- there has to be some data on other ns zetas too solely for this raid.

    Furthermore- this is me being a stickler but - this also kind of helps the argument of nerfing NS as a goal. I really don’t want to sound like the whining kid that gets one lollipop and then asks for another- but there are a lot of reasons why people are upset with this move , not just one.

    Just as the raid bug- is troublesome and bothersome to you. The deep rooted emotions of the people on the forums are to troublesome to me. Let’s try to do better together: not just throw a band aid on a chasm and walk away.
    Let’s close the divide, together.
  • @CG_TopHat

    1. I appreciate the Saturday work you're putting in, something that other Devs seem to think is not warranted.
    2. 20 stacks is too low. You know it. We know it. Save everyone the time and agony and just make it 50 if you have to thru with this ridiculous nerf- when Traya is the problem.
    3. Refunding OD zeta is a very good start, but alas, only a start.
    4. Don't apologize. Just DO. We just can't take another apology that seems halfhearted and somewhat backhanded.
    5. You have zero goodwill lately. Seems like right about now is a good time to do this correctly, and TEST it BEFORE you make it live.
  • Boser
    18 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Regardless of what your data may say 20 stack limit makes the team unfun to play. And it takes so much strategy out of the team. Please please please at a minimum increase the attacks to 30. This change invalidates so much of my investment I made in NS just for the raid. Beyond just the zeta to daka.
  • Cuzzins
    345 posts Member
    Smygelfh wrote: »
    Why not simply give everyone with a zeta:d Daka the materials for another zeta WITHOUT removing hers? Or everyone who has completer Tier 5 or better? Now we would have something slightly resembling some kind of compensation instead of yet another insult.

    Because of the manufacturing cost of Zetas, think of the factory workers churning them out so they can be digitized and sent to us. Think of all the Crystal farmers in the mines!! Think of the Sweat Shops on Tatooine busily making Stun Guns.

    How could they possibly cover the costs of that!
  • Cal00054
    158 posts Member
    Well it’s a start. We didn’t think that they would actually refund the Daka zeta but they are going to. Yeah, we geared her too and it stinks that we wasted rare pieces on her but it’s still something.

    Now onto the other issue; there was no reason for them to rush the update on a Friday. They could have given the 1% of people with 7* traya the weekend to exploit it, instead of messing it up for everyone that is running it this weekend.

    Other than that, yeah the NS nerf stinks but it’s part of the game. At least there is some attempt to make things right.
  • You guys suck. You’re not even giving anything back, you’re taking what we worked on and giving it back. WTH? Fix the issue with the new team not the non-issue with NS. Don’t give us your fake apologies with our own materials
  • So why would I wanna out that Zeta back on Daka now????? Give me a break.
  • Kenbo
    52 posts Member
    Any chance of AV Zetas and all the gear and crystals pumped into g12ing and 7*ing a NS team also ending up in our inboxes? only worked on them for STR.
  • Iy4oy4s
    2923 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    I could be alone on this, but I believe that since you took over this game, its gone downhill. With the communication being promised and not delivered, 10000000000 marquee events, a broken reward system for the raids that is "under review" NUMEROUS bugs affecting gameplay and rewards earned with totally inadequate "make good", this game is skirting the line of fun/not fun. I want to know what you plan on doing to turn this game around.

    I'm a DEC 2015 player with a 3.1 mil GP who has spent money to contribute to the game because I really enjoy it. I want this game to be a roaring success that it has been, but I don't see that if things keep going the way they have been going. Who cares that someone found a team that can solo a phase of the sith raid? Its been out long enough. We can solo the ENTIRE Pit and the HAAT now, its the normal lifecycle of a raid. It should be encouraged by you guys because of CHORE that is the STR.

    Please do something the put of these forum fires. The time for strategic ignoring is over. You guys need to nerf your nerfs...

    My last post must have got deleted by accident. I have not broken the TOS. I am asking for answers to my questions.
  • CaptainRex
    2840 posts Member
    Could you please define "right" amount?
    I want to know how much damage you think I should be doing, so if I discover an awesome new strategy, I'll know whether or not I should keep it to myself.
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
  • Bazooka or not. This nerf is really hitting young players as myself. My single reason for farming NS these last month, were to contribute in p3 & 4 in sithraid. Now I do about a third of the dmg I used to in P4 with zzAsajj lead. It really is infuriating to work towards something just for it to become nerfed the second you get a decent team for sith raid. Yes, it is still a viable team for other raids and events, but guilds need sithraid teams. This is not just a nerf. This is disregard of a large dedicated player group, for a problem which involves less then 1% of us. This is simply not an acceptable way of treating paying customers. I used to be a whale, but I will not imvest a single dime more into this game in fear of 3 months farm being as disapointing as this.
  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
    Sunnie1978 wrote: »
    DEV POST
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    As an addendum to our post, we wanted to reach out and provide an update about yesterday’s fix. It appears that the fix we put in yesterday (where at 20 stacks, Bonds of Weakness imposes a Max Health healing penalty) has a bug in it. This affects characters with Max Health increases, such as some healers or Asajj (her unique) which will result in them not being able to heal to 90% of their actual health once their Max Health has been increased. We have a lead on the bug and will tackle it on Monday morning as soon as we get in.

    I’ll also personally say this bug is frustrating for me. More importantly, I know it’s frustrating for you and makes it feel like we didn’t give you the level of polish you deserve. When we make structural changes to the raid, or any large system in the game, we want it to roll out as cleanly as possible. We moved quickly on this change because the introduction of Critolyte showed some structural changes in the ways players invested and we needed to address it very quickly. This resulted in a rushed deployment with issues and for that we apologize.

    We’ve been monitoring the sentiment and forum threads and there is a standout we’d like to address. We recognize that we have introduced some uncertainty about the value of Old Daka with the announcement of the upcoming changes to Nightsister Zombie. When we release the changes to Nightsister Zombie, we’re going to be making a refund to all players that have Zeta’d Old Daka. What this practically means is that for all Zeta’d Old Dakas in the game, we’re going to un-Zeta the ability and give you back the ability materials in an inbox message. If you want to re-Zeta Daka, you simply need to use the refunded materials to apply it again or on any other character of your choosing.

    Finally, we’re also going to continue to monitor the live environment to make sure the 20 stack limit to Bonds of Weakness is the “right” amount. Initial raid completion data is showing that Nightsisters are still one of the dominant strategies in the Sith Triumvirate raid, but we will continue to observe. We will be investigating early next week, what game implications it has to bump the limit a bit further and whether or not we should move the limit up.

    Thanks again for your dedication and passion.

    DEV POST

    @CG_TopHat thanks for responding to us on the weekend. I know responding from home probably offers no monetary gain as your probably aren’t paid for it. That being said i have some issues with what you said:

    First and foremost this isn’t the first, second or even third time in just recent memory that your team has pushed a broken “fix” on a Friday and then expected us to deal with it until Monday. That’s not acceptable. The bug is severely hindering HSTR progress in certain phases and is killing team compositions. This needs a fix NOW. Not later.

    Secondly, the refund of Daka is the right move. However you shouldn’t reverse the zeta. You know the materials needed for the ability. Take that info, and send the materials without reversal. This shouldn’t even be in question. Not only that, you should allow players who want their zeta mats refunded on all their NS abilities (Assaj unique and leadership) as well as Daka given back. Mama T is still viable with her leadership and her unique is also still viable in certain instances. But the other 3? No we need all that material back.

    Thirdly you’ve been making structural changes to the game nobody wants nor hinders the games health. We ask for mod management, you give slicing and a mod overhaul. We ask for better rewards in the HSR across all tiers and the removal of challenge gear; you give a top heavy reward structure in heroic, causing guilds to break up, and completely ignore the problems with T1-T6. You’ve promised fixes after a “data gathering” but have not made good on that promise. We have for less RNG in ships and you make ships far more RNG dependent battles and nerf long time meta ships that took months to farm and level.

    Lastly, you keep saying you guys listen to us and are striving for excellence and polished products. If that’s so then stop rushing fixes and making mountains out of mole hills. There was no reason to rush this. It’s not like thousands of guilds have access to mass amounts of 7* Traya. You could have waited a week to discuss options, test, retest and then push out a bug free hot fix. Stop rushing things. Stop thinking about what will be the best Bandaid solution and make structurally sound ideas. If you truly want to listen to your community assign specific forum users who have a loud voice in this community like @NicWester @Nikoms565 @scuba and @Vinny_Vader_Vedi who are prominent voices on this site. They arbitrarily act on theses forums and should be allowed direct access to the devs to speak for us. I’m sure if they’re compensated even a few hundred crystals a week they’d be nore than happy to help. Even being able to voice concerns for positive change would even be enough.
    I sincerely hope this doesn’t fall on deaf ears and hope you’ll reply to this.

This discussion has been closed.