Changes to Asajj/Acolyte Strategy in STR MEGA THREAD

Replies

  • Engels
    90 posts Member
    Its clear that normal players were close to beat heroic Sith Raid.so they nerf nss and make the raid even harder
  • KaosZman wrote: »
    I've been reading the updates recently with some interest. Personally, I'm not opposed to patching loopholes like this (e.g. Critolyte). It's totally understandable and I enjoy the challenge STR offers. I know there are a lot of people up in arms about it - I respectfully disagree. While I know there are current issues/bugs with the current roll out of changes, I'm sure it will eventually get on an even keel.

    A guild mate of mine (all credit goes to him for the below ideas - Heisenberg - you're my boy blue!) and I were discussing this particular issue this morning and he had some really interesting feedback about this topic and I thought I would share here.


    I think I may have found a good compromise option on this NS thing. It would be to keep the mechanics the same in other aspects of the game and just do a "raid bonus" instead. So like, change the wording on Asajj's unique to "Asajj gains blah blah until end of encounter. Raid Bonus: Asajj gains 200% offense, 100% critical chance, and 50% health but no longer gains stacking abilities with ally or enemy death."

    For Daka's unique, you could just do "Raid Bonus: unit gains 100% health during raids but no longer gains stacking health bonus"

    It effectively nerfs "paper zombie" in the raid while still awarding a bonus to the appropriate characters. In addition, it doesn't change the mechanics in other aspects of the game where the team isn't overpowered but they still have some advantage.

    Those bonuses are on the unique's, which each are zetas. Zeta abilities are supposed to be powerful.


    Thoughts?

    No, we want what we paid and worked for and invested time in. People are pulling out of paying for anything else and it’s glorious. The zeta on AV shouldn’t end at 200 percent offense, Daka’s zeta is ruined at 20, should have just messed with the 7 Star Traya isolate for raids instead of killing a whole team. The developers have nerfed everything that use to work in this stupid raid that is awful to protect their precious creation only to hurt themselves in the end and hope this is the end for them.
  • mikk207
    222 posts Member
    Still possible to get good scores using NS. This is from a guild mate.
    plo6NuUmp

    Wait for the zombi nerf, maybe the numbers will not be this high anymore
  • JaggedJ
    1352 posts Member
    Sith Raid is a disease and now it's spreading to other toons. So sad how far this game has dropped in quality off the back of one poorly thought out, designed, and tested raid.
  • BalecGonJinn
    153 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    It’s using a chainsaw to remove a splinter. Then cutting the wrong foot.
  • The problem is with the raid not all the characters that they keep nerfing and as always the players are an industrious lot who come up with an alternative solution which the devs nerf. Somebody has already posted an alternative team in another thread replace zombie with chirrut and they did 11.8 million damage
  • People, it makes all the sense in the world to change the Nightsisters mechanics. They are not nerfing anything, they are remixing them so an infinite loop cannot be made in this fashion.
    I have a squad that can solo the rancor raid, no problems, except some rng every now and then allows the rancor to win at the 94% stage, but I still "win" without having to play. That took a lot of time and CG isn't nerfing those toons.
    This kind of infinite loop is cheesy and stupid, not clever squad comp. It was unforeseen because CG would never release content if they mixed every single squad comp possible.
    This is a game. If you don't like the devs making changes to their own games, quit playing. CG is NOT GOING TO RUIN the NS squads. They will still be powerhouses, even with the zombie, which will be changed to have the same effectiveness at 7st g12 that it does now.
    They're just tweaking things so a random stupid flaw is not exploited for zero risk, zero investment autoplay. I know people invest in the toons, but getting 8 million by PLAYING and 48 million by WATCHING THE COMPUTER PLAY is not the same.
    My rancor squad took a long time to get to auto phase. It will take a long time for us to build solo Sith Raid squads, who all work together using their abilities and maybe need another squad to take over at the 3/4 mark, or three squads that can easily auto all day long.
    This was an aberration because literally one toon attacked with the basic until the phase was clear and they got wiped out. That is not playing the game with a well crafted squad. That is finding a loop with the abilities, and if CG wants to reduce the chances of the LOOP, but not reduce the EFFECTIVENESS OF THE TOONS, they can do so.
  • Also, to go with the above post, I play the Sith Raid on auto.
    No, I don't solo phases. I said I play the Sith Raid on auto, not that I beat every stage or even get very far.
    I don't have time to play any of the raids, never did, so I put every single squad on auto and get as far as I can. Sometimes I play the raid, autoing my teams, sometimes my guild beats the raid as I sleep.
    But I always play every raid, every time from the beginning, on auto until I run out of chances or squads. I get a feeling of accomplishment if a squad does high damage, and I remember them and choose them next time, and results vary. Soon, the raid finishes anyway and I get the rewards.
    But I think about the squads I choose, gear them up, zeta, mix it up, etc., and I realize this Chirolyte or whatever squad was just an aberrant loophole allowing for Night Sister Acolyte to defeat Traya all by herself (okay, supported by the passive and unique abilities of her squad mates) using her basic only.
    That just sounds stupid. I wouldn't want to play every phase like that. No fun at all to use it like that. Might as well have the computer auto everything anyway, right?
    I have used NS on auto in the Sith Raid and posted cool numbers, which will climb as I gear them. CG knows better than to make them useless, they're just getting adjusted. Do you want power creep or not? Make up your minds, people. You play the game, or it does it for you?
  • No one is saying “don’t fix the loop”, we all basically agree it’s cheese and defeats the spirit of the raid.

    We just want the fix to focus on the area actually causing the loop. It’s not Asajj/Acolyte causing it. It’s Traya. But she’s the cash cow right now so she’s not getting the fix.
  • Qui_Gondu
    35 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Mischen1 wrote: »
    People, it makes all the sense in the world to change the Nightsisters mechanics. They are not nerfing anything, they are remixing them so an infinite loop cannot be made in this fashion.
    I have a squad that can solo the rancor raid, no problems, except some rng every now and then allows the rancor to win at the 94% stage, but I still "win" without having to play. That took a lot of time and CG isn't nerfing those toons.
    This kind of infinite loop is cheesy and ****, not clever squad comp. It was unforeseen because CG would never release content if they mixed every single squad comp possible.
    This is a game. If you don't like the devs making changes to their own games, quit playing. CG is NOT GOING TO RUIN the NS squads. They will still be powerhouses, even with the zombie, which will be changed to have the same effectiveness at 7st g12 that it does now.
    They're just tweaking things so a random **** flaw is not exploited for zero risk, zero investment autoplay. I know people invest in the toons, but getting 8 million by PLAYING and 48 million by WATCHING THE COMPUTER PLAY is not the same.
    My rancor squad took a long time to get to auto phase. It will take a long time for us to build solo Sith Raid squads, who all work together using their abilities and maybe need another squad to take over at the 3/4 mark, or three squads that can easily auto all day long.
    This was an aberration because literally one toon attacked with the basic until the phase was clear and they got wiped out. That is not playing the game with a well crafted squad. That is finding a loop with the abilities, and if CG wants to reduce the chances of the LOOP, but not reduce the EFFECTIVENESS OF THE TOONS, they can do so.

    This loop was only for those with 7 Star Traya who had nothing to play for at this point. If this was a straight NS team I would understand, but it’s only 1% of 1% that have a 7 Star Traya. It does not equal crippling a faction for something not even involved in NS as the main cause of said loop.
  • Globuhl
    732 posts Member
    Mischen1 wrote: »
    People, it makes all the sense in the world to change the Nightsisters mechanics. They are not nerfing anything, they are remixing them so an infinite loop cannot be made in this fashion.
    Please, read a bit before chiming in. Everybody agrees the loop has to be fixed. What angers people is that CG goes through many contortions to dismiss the most simple and logical answers to the current issue: isolate has to be fixed and should work just like fracture does against raid bosses. There's no need at all to change Night Sisters. It makes 0 sense and CG is just being obtuse and dishonest about it. That is why people are angered, CG just never listens.
  • Mischen1
    158 posts Member
    Globuhl wrote: »
    Mischen1 wrote: »
    People, it makes all the sense in the world to change the Nightsisters mechanics. They are not nerfing anything, they are remixing them so an infinite loop cannot be made in this fashion.
    Please, read a bit before chiming in. Everybody agrees the loop has to be fixed. What angers people is that CG goes through many contortions to dismiss the most simple and logical answers to the current issue: isolate has to be fixed and should work just like fracture does against raid bosses. There's no need at all to change Night Sisters. It makes 0 sense and CG is just being obtuse and dishonest about it. That is why people are angered, CG just never listens.

    Traya doesn't have to be fixed. She is fine. The NS abilities were reacting to her abilities. She is the end-game most powerful toon right now. OF COURSE they won't change her. They're just making the NS work as they should without infinite loops and making zombie a better character at full stars.
    Tray is supposed to interact with a lot of characters to make them very effective. Don't be surprised if this exact same squad comp still pulls in 6 million or more, but the 48 million was not caused by Traya, it was caused by NS and Traya.
  • Mischen1 wrote: »

    Traya doesn't have to be fixed. She is fine. The NS abilities were reacting to her abilities. She is the end-game most powerful toon right now. OF COURSE they won't change her. They're just making the NS work as they should without infinite loops and making zombie a better character at full stars.
    Tray is supposed to interact with a lot of characters to make them very effective. Don't be surprised if this exact same squad comp still pulls in 6 million or more, but the 48 million was not caused by Traya, it was caused by NS and Traya.

    Traya’s isolate needs to change for the raids like JTR was changed. Just in raids, not arena. It was because of her this was meant to happen. It’s better to change one character for a raid than destroy a whole faction because they destroyed your awful raid.
  • Sewpot
    1633 posts Member
    And this was meant for......?
    I think we got enough fires burning.
  • NicWester
    7916 posts Member
    If a mod has the EA tag, their job is literally just to moderate. They're not going to have answers on the game or rewards or anything of that sort. They're not developers. This isn't even the only board they're moderating.

    Just keep that in mind when you're engaging them. It's not that they won't give you information, it's that they don't have information to give in the first place.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • This is a Traya issue, not a NS team issue. To me this destroys the game and the 18 months I’ve been working on my NS team. As if we all have 7* Traya too.
  • DoOrDoNot
    99 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    I agree. I was a P2P before. Not a whale but paying customer nonetheless.

    That's mostly what I did on the games these days - spend a few minutes to autosim. I went into arena and immediately retreat and then may be did it again at later time to get 2 arena battles for daily.

    Sometimes, I even question myself why I am doing that.

    Back to the topic, I am now not sure I should geared up my Asaji. I saw posts about Daka officially but I'm more concerned with Asaji
  • EA_Lanna
    623 posts EA Community Manager
    edited July 2018
    Guys, please do try to keep this space for discussing the changes announced. I've had to remove a few mores posts that have gone away from the discussion such as posts responding to EA_Cians on the rules. This is not the space for that but saying this, if you do have questions surrounding moderation - ever - even if it's just to pass comment on it, I'd advise popping a message our way and we'll aim to get back when we can rather than derailing discussions to do so. Let's keep this space for discussing the changes to Asajj/Acolyte Strategy as it's intended for people looking to have that talk.
  • I get removing the infinite loop, but you have also destroyed the NS viability in Sith P4 AND you are now threatening to remove the Asaaj/Zombie powering strategy that has existed since the NS were created. Our guild was around 2 months from completing hsith. Now our major p4 team (not the infinite loop team) has had their damage potential reduced by more than half.

    I have a diverse team that i believe will be able to one day solo heroic P2, but I am terrified to share it as i believe cg will nerf it simply because it does more damage than other teams.

    You are discouraging experimentation and innovation on these raids. Dont get me wrong, the traya/acolyte loop needed to be fixed; just not at the cost of an entire faction.
  • Madpup
    279 posts Member
    So infinate loops in the game play is bad and CG is committed to ending them. But infinate loops in their poor decision making must be good because I keep seeing the same loop of, 1: Create update that is not play tested or based on any player feedback. 2: Leave the bug in place while also ignoring the community asking for them to go back on their aweful decision. 3: Dev posts on the forums apologizing for what has happened, saying we deserve better, and offers some sort of make good that is worth about 10% or less of what people lost out on. 4: Go back to step 1 and repeat.
  • Mischen1
    158 posts Member
    Nuked_ogre wrote: »
    I get removing the infinite loop, but you have also destroyed the NS viability in Sith P4 AND you are now threatening to remove the Asaaj/Zombie powering strategy that has existed since the NS were created. Our guild was around 2 months from completing hsith. Now our major p4 team (not the infinite loop team) has had their damage potential reduced by more than half.

    I have a diverse team that i believe will be able to one day solo heroic P2, but I am terrified to share it as i believe cg will nerf it simply because it does more damage than other teams.

    You are discouraging experimentation and innovation on these raids. Dont get me wrong, the traya/acolyte loop needed to be fixed; just not at the cost of an entire faction.

    No one has destroyed the effectiveness of the NS faction. They're just removing the infinite loop ability. NS Acolyte being able to endlessly use her basic (AND NO ONE ELSE IS ATTACKING) is not something I want in any toon. I want it to work together as a team, with a mix of abilities that produce good scores, not some unintended bug. They are fixing a glitch. Where is the problem here? People are terrified, and angry, and upset, over a **** game. With a minor fix. To a ridiculous glitch that should be changed. Grow up people
  • Mischen1 wrote: »
    Nuked_ogre wrote: »
    I get removing the infinite loop, but you have also destroyed the NS viability in Sith P4 AND you are now threatening to remove the Asaaj/Zombie powering strategy that has existed since the NS were created. Our guild was around 2 months from completing hsith. Now our major p4 team (not the infinite loop team) has had their damage potential reduced by more than half.

    I have a diverse team that i believe will be able to one day solo heroic P2, but I am terrified to share it as i believe cg will nerf it simply because it does more damage than other teams.

    You are discouraging experimentation and innovation on these raids. Dont get me wrong, the traya/acolyte loop needed to be fixed; just not at the cost of an entire faction.

    No one has destroyed the effectiveness of the NS faction. They're just removing the infinite loop ability. NS Acolyte being able to endlessly use her basic (AND NO ONE ELSE IS ATTACKING) is not something I want in any toon. I want it to work together as a team, with a mix of abilities that produce good scores, not some unintended bug. They are fixing a glitch. Where is the problem here? People are terrified, and angry, and upset, over a **** game. With a minor fix. To a ridiculous glitch that should be changed. Grow up people

    Spoken by someone who obviously has never run NS either in the Sith Raid or anywhere else. This nerf affects ALL NS squads, including those that don’t utilize Acolyte which is pretty much every NS squad used in Sith Raid. Further, the promised nerf to “paper zombie” is a massive nerf to the mechanics of the entire NS squad, particularly Asajj and Daka. There is a reason people are pretty much unanimously appalled by this change. Anyone who has run NS in anything knows what a hideous change this is.
  • Madpup
    279 posts Member
    Mischen1 wrote: »
    Nuked_ogre wrote: »
    I get removing the infinite loop, but you have also destroyed the NS viability in Sith P4 AND you are now threatening to remove the Asaaj/Zombie powering strategy that has existed since the NS were created. Our guild was around 2 months from completing hsith. Now our major p4 team (not the infinite loop team) has had their damage potential reduced by more than half.

    I have a diverse team that i believe will be able to one day solo heroic P2, but I am terrified to share it as i believe cg will nerf it simply because it does more damage than other teams.

    You are discouraging experimentation and innovation on these raids. Dont get me wrong, the traya/acolyte loop needed to be fixed; just not at the cost of an entire faction.

    No one has destroyed the effectiveness of the NS faction. They're just removing the infinite loop ability. NS Acolyte being able to endlessly use her basic (AND NO ONE ELSE IS ATTACKING) is not something I want in any toon. I want it to work together as a team, with a mix of abilities that produce good scores, not some unintended bug. They are fixing a glitch. Where is the problem here? People are terrified, and angry, and upset, over a **** game. With a minor fix. To a ridiculous glitch that should be changed. Grow up people

    You understand that the change doesn't affect the infinite loop issue in other areas of the game, it only fixes it for the Sith raid. And the change in the sith raid lowers the effectiveness of the NS teams 99% of people are using to stop the infinite loop that was possible with the team less than 1% of the players were using. Essentially they could have created a change that didn't lower the effectiveness of the NS faction in the raid while ending the infinite loop, but they instead came up with a solution that nerfed the entire faction.

  • Vendi1983 wrote: »
    How hard is it to have Isolate behave like Fracture where it produces a different effect on a raid boss versus "normal" enemies. Much easier and alot less grief than angering 100% of NS users for the 1% of the 1% who have a 7* Traya.
    This
  • Vendi1983 wrote: »
    How hard is it to have Isolate behave like Fracture where it produces a different effect on a raid boss versus "normal" enemies. Much easier and alot less grief than angering 100% of NS users for the 1% of the 1% who have a 7* Traya.
    This

    Yep I totally agree change isolate on raid bosses not entire NS strategy especially when you are already planning to do it by changing zombie thereby destroying asajj unique and daka zetas and with 20 bow cap mts unique as well
  • ObVusJoke wrote: »
    This makes no sense as it doesn't work till you already have Traya. I hate this raid, and am all for something making it easier to farm once Traya is done. No doiubt this is an excuse to nerf nightsisters. Good bye P4 teams.
    My guild just finished HSTR in 3.5 hours POST NERF. It’s our best time yet. NS squads were still putting up the same damage they had been. The nerf changes nothing, except for removing an exploitable flaw in their raid’s mechanics. Ok, NS got three less actions to attack because they had to clear the stack that much more. That’s probably less than 100k damage they’re missing. Pretty negligible when you’re doing well over 5 million. They’re still the highest damage team in the entire raid.
  • Mischen1 wrote: »
    Globuhl wrote: »
    Mischen1 wrote: »
    People, it makes all the sense in the world to change the Nightsisters mechanics. They are not nerfing anything, they are remixing them so an infinite loop cannot be made in this fashion.
    Please, read a bit before chiming in. Everybody agrees the loop has to be fixed. What angers people is that CG goes through many contortions to dismiss the most simple and logical answers to the current issue: isolate has to be fixed and should work just like fracture does against raid bosses. There's no need at all to change Night Sisters. It makes 0 sense and CG is just being obtuse and dishonest about it. That is why people are angered, CG just never listens.

    Traya doesn't have to be fixed. She is fine. The NS abilities were reacting to her abilities. She is the end-game most powerful toon right now. OF COURSE they won't change her. They're just making the NS work as they should without infinite loops and making zombie a better character at full stars.
    Tray is supposed to interact with a lot of characters to make them very effective. Don't be surprised if this exact same squad comp still pulls in 6 million or more, but the 48 million was not caused by Traya, it was caused by NS and Traya.

    People have invested in NS and those zetas and that team specifically because they functioned in a certain faashion for a very long time...to force them to change rather than Traya is nonsensical. bottom line, before Traya this was not possible...it's her mechanic that is causing this. We're not even talking changing Traya in TW or arena...it's changing Traya's interaction with raid bosses only...which is just once she's 7* which a super tiny fraction of players have. No one was excited to try hard at the raid to get traya so they could...use Traya in the raid??? You sound like either a troll or one of the "I hate weak zombie" guys that detested that so much.
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