Forums [Mega] Rollback of Friday’s Bonds of Weakness Change

Replies

  • ToiletMorph
    70 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Why not just change the condition of a character damaging a raid boss with Isolate on them? Instead of it reading: "Can't gain buffs; characters damaging this unit gain Critical Damage Up and Health Steal Up for 1 turn", make it say Critical Chance Up or Offence Up instead of Health Steal Up. Is it such a necessary buff to have in her kit that you'd want to keep it in? It would stop the Critolyte infinite loop squad without severely penalising those Nightsister squads we've all been grinding for months for...
  • Madpup
    279 posts Member
    The amount of back patting in this thread is concerning. If you look in the dev announcements section of the forum you will see countless examples CG apologizing for something that shouldn't have happened in the first place. They always say they will learn from their experience and then they don't and people always forgive them.

    They reverted back from the patch they pushed out on Friday. Great. They did the right thing. After doing the wrong thing... for the umpteenth time this year. I want this company to actually learn and I want them to actually keep their promises. But I'm not going to forgive them for their screw ups until those screw ups become the rare exception instead of the everyday norm. You shouldn't be forgiving them with open arms until they actually earn your trust back.

    Not to mention... drum roll... we are still going to get a NS nerf as he has pointed out. We just don't know where or how its going to happen. My guess is since Asajj was mentioned so much, people who have put zetas on her are about to be really upset in a few weeks.
  • Globuhl
    751 posts Member
    Good news. But you won't get my trust back as easily, that was one step too far and I'm still angry. I'll wait and see what solution you'll propose in the end.

    Still, it takes some courage to admit you're mistaken. I'll give that to you and your team @CG_TopHat
  • Kenbo
    52 posts Member
    Thanks for listening to the community. It's good to know that people's time and money hasn't been wasted on the NS faction when I'd say a good majority of people worked on them for the raid specifically.
  • CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Cstone812 wrote: »
    Thanks. Still really confused on whoever decided to roll this out at the end of the week with no warning or anything.

    I made the call. Per the above, my general rule is to try to swiftly deal with infinite loop teams as fast as possible. Moved too fast this time.

    Thanks for listening to the community then good sir.
  • Well, kudos for owning up to bad decisions and giving probably the best status quo to have before all this stuff is worked out in-house. Thank you CG.
  • Globuhl wrote: »
    Good news. But you won't get my trust back as easily, that was one step too far and I'm still angry. I'll wait and see what solution you'll propose in the end.

    Still, it takes some courage to admit you're mistaken. I'll give that to you and your team @CG_TopHat

    There are many other issues afoot. But as you said about top hat. I respect it. Maybe this can be a step forward in the right direction.
  • @CG_TopHat are you really going to ignore the raid reward structure....this is kind of ridiculous that there’s 1500+ posts about it.
  • 1) I appreciate this. The revision and communication of the change will reverse my decision to stop financially supporting the game. As a business solution developer, I can respect this.
    2) When the initial announcement came that you were going to tweak something, I was initially concerned it would be a knee **** reaction and not make the community happy through the depth of the change. Thank you for proving me wrong in the end.
    3) I tried to think of the various courses of action and see what could be done. I was hoping for no change to Asajj and either a tweak to Traya (as a traya owner) or a tweak to Acolyte. You can’t change Traya since Qi’ra can set it up too. I had hoped for a change to the bonus Acolyte got from her unique and just swap CC to CD or something else. With the looming threat of 6*+ mods I think that we could achieve the crit breakpoint eventually again. As an early adopter of NS who uses them in arena, tw, Tb and HSTR, please look at changing Acolytes basic to being just one big hit and/or swap stuff on her unique. That would break the Qira interaction and make the breakpoints to achieve the infinite loop much harder.
    Additionally the bonds change isn’t bad, just 20 stacks was too low. I can routinely get 10-12m in p4 with NS and I never go past 60 stacks unless I stopped paying attention. You put the cap at 100 stacks of BoW and you can break the infinite loop and let people get their high scores.
    Some of us are game designers, some of us are professionals and some are lifelong gamers. Please use us as a resource for game changes. “Hey suckas, we need to change zombie. We asked the community and came up with some ideas ourselves. Please vote what may work and what will **** you the heck off.”
    Thanks for hopefully reading.
  • Why is it that even when the devs make a sincere post in a manner in which we always want them to, that still 1/3 of the people here still knock them?

    I am with the other 2/3 in commending you on a genuine post and fix. This doesnt happen much and its very refrefreshing. Thank you tophat
  • Vengence
    1102 posts Member
    I would like to thank you guys for hearing the community on this! This is gonna go further than any apology or “make good” will.

    Hopefully you will look into some of suggestions made.

    Now let’s get back to SWGOH
  • Magilla262
    70 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    “If we have to make a change to a character we’ll have an open conversation about how we preserve the investment made by people that are significantly, negatively affected by that change.”

    @CG_TopHat does that include the full investment, i.e. all the gear/zetas we invested for a faction/team, gear g12.5, etc. or are we still talking half-measures. It is incredibly unfair to change a character that forms the basis of an extremely viable squad that takes significant investment and then only refund one tiny thing. For a different example, just look at Ewoks. Investing a single zeta in chirpa lead forms the basis of that team but it takes a TON of golden balls (mk8’s) to make them really viable. If you changed chirpa lead and didn’t refund all of those gears I would be beyond angry. Same thing here.

    And the larger issue is why should I feel my investment of time, gear, zetas, etc on any character or faction is safe going forward? These types of changes are a terrible betrayal to all of us who play the game
  • DoomeyEyes wrote: »
    I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the Critolyte team should not be a problem... I'm sure it is, but it shouldn't be. There are currently no guilds who have 50 members with 7* Traya. So, if people are using that team to go wild and take a top spot, they are just being awful to their guild mates who need her shards.

    Not many would for a while. Alot of guilds are enforcing a no top 3 once you have 7* Traya rule. So many with 7* traya are going to weaker guilds to a) help them out and b) ensure they can go as hard as they want
  • "However, whatever that change is we will test in house more rigorously"

    It's kind of sad that *this* is what made you guys think "Huh, we should probably test these updates before we push them out on a Friday afternoon and call it a week."
  • I swear to RNGesus, @Nikoms565 is like my thought twin. I'm just going to let him post for me from now on. :lol:
  • HK22
    644 posts Member
    Thank you for owning up to a mistake and taking responsibility. While I personally was not affected by the change, I was considering withdrawing what few purchases I make in this game going forward since it did not seem that the community was being listened to. So thanks for owning up and taking responsibility.

    For kicks and giggles can we get 3 Clone Wars Chewbacca Shards?
  • Great news. Thank you. Now, are you still planning to change Zombie’s mechanics independent of the upcoming raid fix?
    Go Pens!
  • Monel
    2776 posts Member
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Monel wrote: »
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    MeshmeZ wrote: »
    thank you for admitting you were wrong. hopefully you figure out a way to fix the Traya auto problem without hurting other teams.

    That's the hope. We're already investigating some other leads, but we're just trying to get the rollback taken care of today. I'll let the community know when we've got something more solid in place.

    Now, where is Revan? :)

    Who?

    Well played, well played.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Well done. I appreciate the openness, honesty and the good decision.

    Many agree that infinite "cheese" loops are bad for the game and need to be addressed quickly. Thank you for doing the right thing in rolling back a change that was not adequate.

    I look forward to a fair, equitable and well-working fix in the future.

    I too agree that infinite loops are bad. When I looked at the video the first words out of my mouth were “Nerf”. I said the same thing about ST Han and Fives. So 3 for 3 in my book. My biggest issue is the speed and the delivery. How can a decision of that magnitude come out on a Friday at the close of business? Kudos to you @CG_TopHat for saying it was the wrong decision but my point is that it’s a decision that should have NEVER been made that way.

    It is actions like this that just continue to destroy any good faith that is planted before it. You want to instill good will? Then address the issue at its core. The Sith raid isnt fun and the rewards for anything less than Heroic suck kitten. Show us some good faith in that department and just maybe you can start earning some of our trust back.

    SWGOH Guild: Peace Is A Lie SWGOH Profile: Boofpoof Discord: Buffpuff#3065
  • Thank you for taking the time to communicate effectively, its generally all thats required to remove the majority of the hate from the forums (plus some lisening to the community occasionally), but whilst closing this infinate loop please ensure that you also close the other infinate loop that hinders us in TW, after all, there all bad right?

    Shame your steaming ahead to kill what has been acknowleged as a perfectly acceptable tactic with the Zombie though, lets face it that wasnt actually part of he problem, and its been perfectly acceptable since zombies release
  • My_goren
    19 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Does this mean "Critolyte" will work since a solution isn't presented with the rollback?
  • Great news. Thank you. Now, are you still planning to change Zombie’s mechanics independent of the upcoming raid fix?

    Yes. That change is not in the immediate future (this week), but should be coming soon. I can't give a definitive date because, as I'm sure you can guess, Zombie is an interesting design nut to crack and we are still doing iteration on it.
  • Maybe you can pop on over to @cg_sbcrumb and show him how well this worked, so he can hop on over to the feedback thread he started some 2.5 months ago...
  • JeerCScaas
    186 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    It is the better call you could do today.
    Thank you for reviewing your position, and admitimg it was a rushed and poor fix.

    It's sad I just had a p3 and could have solo it.

    Whatever you do in future, please don't take actions so rushed that can cause more problems than solutions.
    And include more testing, and if you want so, also the players base. It may aggregate even more value.

    Cheers.
  • CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Great news. Thank you. Now, are you still planning to change Zombie’s mechanics independent of the upcoming raid fix?

    Yes. That change is not in the immediate future (this week), but should be coming soon. I can't give a definitive date because, as I'm sure you can guess, Zombie is an interesting design nut to crack and we are still doing iteration on it.

    Again, I think you shouldn't do any change at all. The raid is what it is, you designed it the way it is, you made some mistakes, you will do better with the next one.

    The raid is not even fun at all, so just let us play it with all our current possibilities and move on.
  • Thank you, this is a good decision.

    With August upon us, hopefully we will get the promised updates to raid rewards (non HSTR, all the others).
  • Roopehun
    344 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Hey, at least we got:
    -Another useless fix attempt (just like str rewards and fleetminus2)
    -Another useless apology (yea Im not buying that youre fans of the game - youd do completely different things if you cared anything but short term income, dont fool yourselves)
    -A great advertisement of an exploit that trivialises end game content, ruins complete arena shards, destroyong tens of thousands of players' fun.
    -Another synonime for Soon, as to when to expect a fix

    Classic CG quality. It must feel great to be part of such a dynamic team.
  • CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Great news. Thank you. Now, are you still planning to change Zombie’s mechanics independent of the upcoming raid fix?

    Yes. That change is not in the immediate future (this week), but should be coming soon. I can't give a definitive date because, as I'm sure you can guess, Zombie is an interesting design nut to crack and we are still doing iteration on it.


    Not really. If all you’re looking at is making her to where people will want to gear her like everyone else just start her, g1, with high health/prot and lower the numbers the higher the gear. G12+ would act as paper zombie does now. Everyone prioritizes her then.
    Ooba hutar.
  • CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Cstone812 wrote: »
    Thanks. Still really confused on whoever decided to roll this out at the end of the week with no warning or anything.

    I made the call. Per the above, my general rule is to try to swiftly deal with infinite loop teams as fast as possible. Moved too fast this time.

    Publicly admitting a mistake and taking responsibility is a rare thing anymore. For that I salute you. I look forward to a well thought out solution to the looping problem
  • CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Mercury90 wrote: »
    I really want to believe this is something you're doing for us because you actually realized you messed up. I actually believe you did this because you saw the amount of refunds being requested and panicked. Either way I suppose I'm happy. Especially since this is something almost nobody can currently achieve so you should actually have the time to test it first.

    This comes up often, and I wanted to let you know that we don't have access to that information in real time. In fact, I don't recall ever seeing refund data - so it's not something we consider. That's not to say we don't care about community sentiment, we certainly do, it's just not based on this particular metric.

    I would imagine whoever you answer to does have a pulse on that. Considering the mass refunds that occurred over the weekend I dont find it surprising that a tourniquet needed to be placed to stop the gashing received. If I seem cynical TopHat it is because I am. There has just been way too much empty promises, bad decisions, miscommunication for me to let you off the hook this easy. An apology becomes meaningless when you continue the same actions over and over. And the saddest part of this is I was one of the people not severly affected by this issue since Nightsisters has been on my to-do list since March.
    SWGOH Guild: Peace Is A Lie SWGOH Profile: Boofpoof Discord: Buffpuff#3065
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