Mark Hamill return

Replies

  • Boo
    3426 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!
    Post edited by EA_Cian on
  • DarkHelmet1138
    1638 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian
    Post edited by EA_Cian on
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian

    You really think Star Wars Attack of the Clones, a sci-fantasy CGI blockbuster for little kids(?), is trying to be a realistic commentary on real life relationships? No. It’s a movie and movies are supposed to be entertaining. There is nothing entertaining about completely unlikable creep who manipulates and lusts after women, kills women and children in cold blood, has zero chemistry with his romantic interest, yet is still supposed to be the protagonist we’re rooting for. Anakin isn’t just a poorly acted characer, he’s also poorly written and poorly directed (this applies to every other character in the PT).

    At least Rey is compassionate, energetic, has a strong moral code, and is clearly established. Sure, she lacks any real character flaws in TFA, but she’s a good person who cares about things worth caring about.
    Post edited by EA_Cian on
  • ScrawnyKid88
    72 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian.

    So you're just going to ignore the truck sized plot holes in the prequels while trying to say a different story is bad because you didn't like the characters. K.
    Post edited by EA_Cian on
  • EA_Cian
    971 posts EA Staff (retired)
    Some quick notes here folks,

    Let's cut down on the language. I've seen a post or two with language that isn't okay for our forums and will be editing as needed (I've also clarified a remark about The Millenium Falcon, fwiw).

    Let's also stop with talk of social agendas and all that, these forums are not the channel to be having these discussions. End of story.

    And, as always, while disagreement is okay let's keep it civil and respectful.
  • DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian

    You really think Star Wars Attack of the Clones, a sci-fantasy CGI blockbuster for little kids(?), is trying to be a realistic commentary on real life relationships? No. It’s a movie and movies are supposed to be entertaining. There is nothing entertaining about completely unlikable creep who manipulates and lusts after women, kills women and children in cold blood, has zero chemistry with his romantic interest, yet is still supposed to be the protagonist we’re rooting for. Anakin isn’t just a poorly acted characer, he’s also poorly written and poorly directed (this applies to every other character in the PT).

    At least Rey is compassionate, energetic, has a strong moral code, and is clearly established. Sure, she lacks any real character flaws in TFA, but she’s a good person who cares about things worth caring about.

    Dude, you already know he's going to become Darth Vader. He's not going to be all hero. So the murdering tuskins is foreshadowing of what is to come. And there are plenty of real women who stay with men who are bad for them. While you may not agree with Padme on her choices, they are unfortunately plausible when you look at the human condition.

    I don't have a problem with Rey's personality jist the fact that she is handed everything and doesn't have to earn anything. That's bad writing. But you can't compare her morals to Anakin since Anakin isn't the hero but the eventual villain that becomes Darth Vader. It wouldn't make since if he was all pure in the second film.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian.

    So you're just going to ignore the truck sized plot holes in the prequels while trying to say a different story is bad because you didn't like the characters. K.

    I'm aware of some plot holes in the prequels just like there are plot holes in every movie. Some are more annoying than others. But I wasn't defending plot holes as much as pointing out that bad acting doesn't bother me much. And no plot hole in the prequels is as big as the one in TFA where Rey only learns the force is real one day and hours later seems to use it at the jedi knight level. Just isn't believable. And there are things I don't like about the prequels, aka Jar Jar, but unfortunately the bad story of the sequels has made them fall below even that.
  • Boo
    3426 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian

    You really think Star Wars Attack of the Clones, a sci-fantasy CGI blockbuster for little kids(?), is trying to be a realistic commentary on real life relationships? No. It’s a movie and movies are supposed to be entertaining. There is nothing entertaining about completely unlikable creep who manipulates and lusts after women, kills women and children in cold blood, has zero chemistry with his romantic interest, yet is still supposed to be the protagonist we’re rooting for. Anakin isn’t just a poorly acted characer, he’s also poorly written and poorly directed (this applies to every other character in the PT).

    At least Rey is compassionate, energetic, has a strong moral code, and is clearly established. Sure, she lacks any real character flaws in TFA, but she’s a good person who cares about things worth caring about.

    Dude, you already know he's going to become Darth Vader. He's not going to be all hero. So the murdering tuskins is foreshadowing of what is to come. And there are plenty of real women who stay with men who are bad for them. While you may not agree with Padme on her choices, they are unfortunately plausible when you look at the human condition.

    I don't have a problem with Rey's personality jist the fact that she is handed everything and doesn't have to earn anything. That's bad writing. But you can't compare her morals to Anakin since Anakin isn't the hero but the eventual villain that becomes Darth Vader. It wouldn't make since if he was all pure in the second film.

    Just an FYI to everyone - Let's also be clear that no one is upset about Rey being OP because she is female - if her character were male it would be equally unlikeable - she's just a poorly created character, end of story. So gender has nothing to do with it.

    You cannot compare Rey to Anakin as he was force jesus. And Luke was his son (so that power trickled down into him) but even still they had years/months (respectively) of training where Rey did not.

    Her backstory to power is that because she is just powerful, which doesn't really fly.

    Anakin and Luke both had struggles in their achievements - Rey does not.

    I do not care some plot hole was "sealed" in the novelization that she "downloaded" Kylo's training when their minds connected in TFA - if you can watch Youtube videos on Karate & Kobudo, does not make you a karate master or weapons expert - so this whole "download" thing is ridiculous at best. She is not Neo from the Matrix, lol.

    Nothing compares to being trained, in person, with a teacher - and for long periods of time, like said years/months. Rey had only a few days of no real actual lessons.

  • Boo
    3426 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian.

    So you're just going to ignore the truck sized plot holes in the prequels while trying to say a different story is bad because you didn't like the characters. K.

    Its not ideal but the Clone Wars helped answer some of the major plot holes in the PT.

    Also the ST had opportunity to add to some of the Skywalker plot hole story re: prophecy - especially if SNoke turned out to be Plagueis.

    I think this was a wasted opportunity that the ST did not take advantage of, which would also have solidified its story arc within the prior saga movies.

    Other than having classic main characters to show up and die, this new ST has very little to do with star wars as we know it.

    That is not necessarily a bad thing, but don't drag the beloved characters through the muck and make a mockery of the saga films that came before in the process - it doesn't do well and the fans react to it.
  • I think I should mention why this seems to trigger myself and possibly others, is the new trilogy feels like get rid of the old farts and get on with the new. I turn 60 in October. I face this mentality daily. I guess seeing it handled as they have in SW, stings a bit.

    I thought the very same thing and I heard that a lot recently
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian

    You really think Star Wars Attack of the Clones, a sci-fantasy CGI blockbuster for little kids(?), is trying to be a realistic commentary on real life relationships? No. It’s a movie and movies are supposed to be entertaining. There is nothing entertaining about completely unlikable creep who manipulates and lusts after women, kills women and children in cold blood, has zero chemistry with his romantic interest, yet is still supposed to be the protagonist we’re rooting for. Anakin isn’t just a poorly acted characer, he’s also poorly written and poorly directed (this applies to every other character in the PT).

    At least Rey is compassionate, energetic, has a strong moral code, and is clearly established. Sure, she lacks any real character flaws in TFA, but she’s a good person who cares about things worth caring about.

    Dude, you already know he's going to become Darth Vader. He's not going to be all hero. So the murdering tuskins is foreshadowing of what is to come. And there are plenty of real women who stay with men who are bad for them. While you may not agree with Padme on her choices, they are unfortunately plausible when you look at the human condition.

    I don't have a problem with Rey's personality jist the fact that she is handed everything and doesn't have to earn anything. That's bad writing. But you can't compare her morals to Anakin since Anakin isn't the hero but the eventual villain that becomes Darth Vader. It wouldn't make since if he was all pure in the second film.

    A list of “bad” characters who are still well written and entertaining to watch:

    Walter White
    Frank Underwood
    Daniel Plainview
    Kylo Ren (don’t @ me, I’ll always defend him)
    Redmond Barry
    Ledger’s Joker
    Terence Fletcher
    Hans Landa
    Anton Chigurh
    Henry Hill
    A whole mess of people from Game of Thrones
    Michael Peterson (Charles Bronson)
    Jordan Belfort
    The Corleones
    Alexander DeLarge
    Reynolds **** (from Phantom Thread)
    and many others

    And nobody, not even the most awkward man-children talk the way Anakin talks.
  • DatBoi wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian

    You really think Star Wars Attack of the Clones, a sci-fantasy CGI blockbuster for little kids(?), is trying to be a realistic commentary on real life relationships? No. It’s a movie and movies are supposed to be entertaining. There is nothing entertaining about completely unlikable creep who manipulates and lusts after women, kills women and children in cold blood, has zero chemistry with his romantic interest, yet is still supposed to be the protagonist we’re rooting for. Anakin isn’t just a poorly acted characer, he’s also poorly written and poorly directed (this applies to every other character in the PT).

    At least Rey is compassionate, energetic, has a strong moral code, and is clearly established. Sure, she lacks any real character flaws in TFA, but she’s a good person who cares about things worth caring about.

    Dude, you already know he's going to become Darth Vader. He's not going to be all hero. So the murdering tuskins is foreshadowing of what is to come. And there are plenty of real women who stay with men who are bad for them. While you may not agree with Padme on her choices, they are unfortunately plausible when you look at the human condition.

    I don't have a problem with Rey's personality jist the fact that she is handed everything and doesn't have to earn anything. That's bad writing. But you can't compare her morals to Anakin since Anakin isn't the hero but the eventual villain that becomes Darth Vader. It wouldn't make since if he was all pure in the second film.

    A list of “bad” characters who are still well written and entertaining to watch:

    Walter White
    Frank Underwood
    Daniel Plainview
    Kylo Ren (don’t @ me, I’ll always defend him)
    Redmond Barry
    Ledger’s Joker
    Terence Fletcher
    Hans Landa
    Anton Chigurh
    Henry Hill
    A whole mess of people from Game of Thrones
    Michael Peterson (Charles Bronson)
    Jordan Belfort
    The Corleones
    Alexander DeLarge
    Reynolds **** (from Phantom Thread)
    and many others

    And nobody, not even the most awkward man-children talk the way Anakin talks.

    I just can't see kylo ren as a good villain. The problem isn't even with anything his character does. It is mostly when you set him next to Rey he seems underpowered. The same woukd have happened is Luke would have faced Vader in ep 4 and won. It would have diminished Vader as a villain. It would have been so simple to fix this too. They could have had Rey be losing and have the planet start falling apart and end the fight prematurely and have her escape. Or have Luke show up and save her and then actually train her. There really was no good story reason to have the villain lose in the first movie.
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    DatBoi wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian

    You really think Star Wars Attack of the Clones, a sci-fantasy CGI blockbuster for little kids(?), is trying to be a realistic commentary on real life relationships? No. It’s a movie and movies are supposed to be entertaining. There is nothing entertaining about completely unlikable creep who manipulates and lusts after women, kills women and children in cold blood, has zero chemistry with his romantic interest, yet is still supposed to be the protagonist we’re rooting for. Anakin isn’t just a poorly acted characer, he’s also poorly written and poorly directed (this applies to every other character in the PT).

    At least Rey is compassionate, energetic, has a strong moral code, and is clearly established. Sure, she lacks any real character flaws in TFA, but she’s a good person who cares about things worth caring about.

    Dude, you already know he's going to become Darth Vader. He's not going to be all hero. So the murdering tuskins is foreshadowing of what is to come. And there are plenty of real women who stay with men who are bad for them. While you may not agree with Padme on her choices, they are unfortunately plausible when you look at the human condition.

    I don't have a problem with Rey's personality jist the fact that she is handed everything and doesn't have to earn anything. That's bad writing. But you can't compare her morals to Anakin since Anakin isn't the hero but the eventual villain that becomes Darth Vader. It wouldn't make since if he was all pure in the second film.

    A list of “bad” characters who are still well written and entertaining to watch:

    Walter White
    Frank Underwood
    Daniel Plainview
    Kylo Ren (don’t @ me, I’ll always defend him)
    Redmond Barry
    Ledger’s Joker
    Terence Fletcher
    Hans Landa
    Anton Chigurh
    Henry Hill
    A whole mess of people from Game of Thrones
    Michael Peterson (Charles Bronson)
    Jordan Belfort
    The Corleones
    Alexander DeLarge
    Reynolds **** (from Phantom Thread)
    and many others

    And nobody, not even the most awkward man-children talk the way Anakin talks.

    I just can't see kylo ren as a good villain. The problem isn't even with anything his character does. It is mostly when you set him next to Rey he seems underpowered. The same woukd have happened is Luke would have faced Vader in ep 4 and won. It would have diminished Vader as a villain. It would have been so simple to fix this too. They could have had Rey be losing and have the planet start falling apart and end the fight prematurely and have her escape. Or have Luke show up and save her and then actually train her. There really was no good story reason to have the villain lose in the first movie.

    First of all, I listed Kylo Ren as one of many well written "bad" characters. That's not an excuse to further criticize Rey in TFA. Second of all, you didn't address the topic at hand. I'm discussing "bad" characters in a general sense to point out that they don't have to be obnoxious or unintentionally cringy to be effective characters.
  • undefined
    DatBoi wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian

    You really think Star Wars Attack of the Clones, a sci-fantasy CGI blockbuster for little kids(?), is trying to be a realistic commentary on real life relationships? No. It’s a movie and movies are supposed to be entertaining. There is nothing entertaining about completely unlikable creep who manipulates and lusts after women, kills women and children in cold blood, has zero chemistry with his romantic interest, yet is still supposed to be the protagonist we’re rooting for. Anakin isn’t just a poorly acted characer, he’s also poorly written and poorly directed (this applies to every other character in the PT).

    At least Rey is compassionate, energetic, has a strong moral code, and is clearly established. Sure, she lacks any real character flaws in TFA, but she’s a good person who cares about things worth caring about.

    Dude, you already know he's going to become Darth Vader. He's not going to be all hero. So the murdering tuskins is foreshadowing of what is to come. And there are plenty of real women who stay with men who are bad for them. While you may not agree with Padme on her choices, they are unfortunately plausible when you look at the human condition.

    I don't have a problem with Rey's personality jist the fact that she is handed everything and doesn't have to earn anything. That's bad writing. But you can't compare her morals to Anakin since Anakin isn't the hero but the eventual villain that becomes Darth Vader. It wouldn't make since if he was all pure in the second film.

    A list of “bad” characters who are still well written and entertaining to watch:

    Walter White
    Frank Underwood
    Daniel Plainview
    Kylo Ren (don’t @ me, I’ll always defend him)
    Redmond Barry
    Ledger’s Joker
    Terence Fletcher
    Hans Landa
    Anton Chigurh
    Henry Hill
    A whole mess of people from Game of Thrones
    Michael Peterson (Charles Bronson)
    Jordan Belfort
    The Corleones
    Alexander DeLarge
    Reynolds **** (from Phantom Thread)
    and many others

    And nobody, not even the most awkward man-children talk the way Anakin talks.

    I just can't see kylo ren as a good villain. The problem isn't even with anything his character does. It is mostly when you set him next to Rey he seems underpowered. The same woukd have happened is Luke would have faced Vader in ep 4 and won. It would have diminished Vader as a villain. It would have been so simple to fix this too. They could have had Rey be losing and have the planet start falling apart and end the fight prematurely and have her escape. Or have Luke show up and save her and then actually train her. There really was no good story reason to have the villain lose in the first movie.

    First of all, I listed Kylo Ren as one of many well written "bad" characters. That's not an excuse to further criticize Rey in TFA. Second of all, you didn't address the topic at hand. I'm discussing "bad" characters in a general sense to point out that they don't have to be obnoxious or unintentionally cringy to be effective characters.

    You seem to miss the point that to have a decent villain you have to have them be at least somewhat menacing. In the first part of the movie, they did ok with this but they lost it about half way through when they had him lose. And that would have actually worked ok since snoke was the big baddy and was mysterious and portrayed to be powerful. But then they killed snoke and that leaves only kylo to be the big baddie which just doesn't work. None of it has to do with writing of individual lines or how Adam Driver acted. The acting seems to be ok. Some people complain about that too but as I said earlier, I'm not really picky on that. But the story at this point doesn't have a villain that seems to a threat to the main protagonist.
  • The anticipation of death is worse than dieing. Our perception of a so called Villain, is for more intense to us then their reality in most cases. Sith are perceived as power hungry, when in fact they are generally opressed and manipulated, their creedo lends us to understand this, "Peace is a lie, there is only power, ...with power my chains are broken and I am truly free". Evil is merely the other side of the same coin. There is no dark side there is no light side, there is only the force, and how you use it. The same analogy is recurring in literature about magic. So given the premise of well written and poorly written villains, how well can you know anyone in under 2 hrs in the average movie?

    Ok, what were we talking about? zzzzzzzz


    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    The anticipation of death is worse than dieing. Our perception of a so called Villain, is for more intense to us then their reality in most cases. Sith are perceived as power hungry, when in fact they are generally opressed and manipulated, their creedo lends us to understand this, "Peace is a lie, there is only power, ...with power my chains are broken and I am truly free". Evil is merely the other side of the same coin. There is no dark side there is no light side, there is only the force, and how you use it. The same analogy is recurring in literature about magic. So given the premise of well written and poorly written villains, how well can you know anyone in under 2 hrs in the average movie?

    Ok, what were we talking about? zzzzzzzz


    Uhh... idk what any of that was about, but I simply can’t go without addressing: “how well can you know anyone in under 2 hrs in the average movie?“

    Have you ever seen a movie? Cause normally they have stories and characters. These characters are usually given a personality, a goal, a reason to obtain that goal, and obstacles that prevent them from obtaining a goal. To overcome these challenges, the character must change in some way. By the end of the story, the character has undergone what is known as an “arc”, and the audience has been taken alongside them in the story. It’s one of the most fundamental aspects of storytelling and has been for tens of thousands of years. It only works if the audience knows who the character is at the beginning of the story so that they comprehend the significance of the character’s arc.
  • I'm a huge Star Wars fan - see every movie on opening night. Until Solo. Not because of Solo but because I still had vomit in my mouth from TLJ. I eventually saw Solo and it was fine, but I really don't know if I even care to see IX at this point.
  • I'm a huge Star Wars fan - see every movie on opening night. Until Solo. Not because of Solo but because I still had vomit in my mouth from TLJ. I eventually saw Solo and it was fine, but I really don't know if I even care to see IX at this point.

    I share the feeling of watching all the SW movies, from the beginning. And I have not seen Solo, and sadly have no interest in watching it or SW 9 at this point. I just have lost the desire to.
    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • Boo
    3426 posts Member
    undefined
    DatBoi wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian

    You really think Star Wars Attack of the Clones, a sci-fantasy CGI blockbuster for little kids(?), is trying to be a realistic commentary on real life relationships? No. It’s a movie and movies are supposed to be entertaining. There is nothing entertaining about completely unlikable creep who manipulates and lusts after women, kills women and children in cold blood, has zero chemistry with his romantic interest, yet is still supposed to be the protagonist we’re rooting for. Anakin isn’t just a poorly acted characer, he’s also poorly written and poorly directed (this applies to every other character in the PT).

    At least Rey is compassionate, energetic, has a strong moral code, and is clearly established. Sure, she lacks any real character flaws in TFA, but she’s a good person who cares about things worth caring about.

    Dude, you already know he's going to become Darth Vader. He's not going to be all hero. So the murdering tuskins is foreshadowing of what is to come. And there are plenty of real women who stay with men who are bad for them. While you may not agree with Padme on her choices, they are unfortunately plausible when you look at the human condition.

    I don't have a problem with Rey's personality jist the fact that she is handed everything and doesn't have to earn anything. That's bad writing. But you can't compare her morals to Anakin since Anakin isn't the hero but the eventual villain that becomes Darth Vader. It wouldn't make since if he was all pure in the second film.

    A list of “bad” characters who are still well written and entertaining to watch:

    Walter White
    Frank Underwood
    Daniel Plainview
    Kylo Ren (don’t @ me, I’ll always defend him)
    Redmond Barry
    Ledger’s Joker
    Terence Fletcher
    Hans Landa
    Anton Chigurh
    Henry Hill
    A whole mess of people from Game of Thrones
    Michael Peterson (Charles Bronson)
    Jordan Belfort
    The Corleones
    Alexander DeLarge
    Reynolds **** (from Phantom Thread)
    and many others

    And nobody, not even the most awkward man-children talk the way Anakin talks.

    I just can't see kylo ren as a good villain. The problem isn't even with anything his character does. It is mostly when you set him next to Rey he seems underpowered. The same woukd have happened is Luke would have faced Vader in ep 4 and won. It would have diminished Vader as a villain. It would have been so simple to fix this too. They could have had Rey be losing and have the planet start falling apart and end the fight prematurely and have her escape. Or have Luke show up and save her and then actually train her. There really was no good story reason to have the villain lose in the first movie.

    First of all, I listed Kylo Ren as one of many well written "bad" characters. That's not an excuse to further criticize Rey in TFA. Second of all, you didn't address the topic at hand. I'm discussing "bad" characters in a general sense to point out that they don't have to be obnoxious or unintentionally cringy to be effective characters.

    You seem to miss the point that to have a decent villain you have to have them be at least somewhat menacing. In the first part of the movie, they did ok with this but they lost it about half way through when they had him lose. And that would have actually worked ok since snoke was the big baddy and was mysterious and portrayed to be powerful. But then they killed snoke and that leaves only kylo to be the big baddie which just doesn't work. None of it has to do with writing of individual lines or how Adam Driver acted. The acting seems to be ok. Some people complain about that too but as I said earlier, I'm not really picky on that. But the story at this point doesn't have a villain that seems to a threat to the main protagonist.

    I 100% agree - I don't think anyone can dispute that Anakin's lines and acting are poor, hence the name "Mannequin" Skywalker. I think the idea of his fall to Darth Vader is most excellent, but I do not think the PT executed it well enough at all, which is a shame.

    I agree that a good classic theatrical villain must be menacing, like vader was - and you are right, Kylo started out that way. But being beaten by the protagonist (again regardless of gender etc.) is one of the worst bad writing things you can do if you want to carry that villain forward over another 2 movies.

    Adam hands down beats Hayden in the lines and acting department - no disputes there. But ultimately in regard to character arc and overall villain Anakin/Vader trump Ben/Kylo - no doubt.
  • Boo
    3426 posts Member
    The anticipation of death is worse than dieing. Our perception of a so called Villain, is for more intense to us then their reality in most cases. Sith are perceived as power hungry, when in fact they are generally opressed and manipulated, their creedo lends us to understand this, "Peace is a lie, there is only power, ...with power my chains are broken and I am truly free". Evil is merely the other side of the same coin. There is no dark side there is no light side, there is only the force, and how you use it. The same analogy is recurring in literature about magic. So given the premise of well written and poorly written villains, how well can you know anyone in under 2 hrs in the average movie?

    Ok, what were we talking about? zzzzzzzz


    And this is exactly why I was hoping Luke would be more in the belief of the grey/balanced force rather than what we got out of him in TLJ - it would have grown his character to a better understanding of the force without the arrogance and trapping of the jedi belief system nor give into the corrupting power of the darkside.

    This would have given us a more interesting look into the force itself, Luke's character's growth rather than regression as a "Master" and also added more depth to the movie - it could have gone in so many directions from there - but Johnson had the unfortunate pleasure at making TLJ... look what we got and marvel over the division of the fanbase!
  • Boo
    3426 posts Member
    I'm a huge Star Wars fan - see every movie on opening night. Until Solo. Not because of Solo but because I still had vomit in my mouth from TLJ. I eventually saw Solo and it was fine, but I really don't know if I even care to see IX at this point.

    I think that was the same for a lot of people. Then add all the attacks on the fanbase from Disney/Lucasfilm and the mainstream media and other published works like Forbes - if you treat your customers bad, your business will fail. It is a lesson in all businesses - Disney/Lucasfilm included.
  • Boo wrote: »
    And this is exactly why I was hoping Luke would be more in the belief of the grey/balanced force rather than what we got out of him in TLJ - it would have grown his character to a better understanding of the force without the arrogance and trapping of the jedi belief system nor give into the corrupting power of the darkside.

    Maybe I saw a different movie, but isn't this exactly what happened in TLJ? It seems to me this is the path TLJ went down, it just came away with a different conclusion than many people hoped for. And if you examine it from the character's perspective, it makes sense that he wanted to be done with all of it. He chose to be a recluse, just like his master.

    Which raises the question, why doesn't the great George get any of this flak for essentially using the same plot device with Yoda? Why couldn't Yoda have secretly started to develop a new generation of Jedi after escaping Palpatine? Instead, he went into hiding and started losing his marbles while talking to the fauna of a swamp planet.

    And before anyone goes down the Order 66 path, I seriously doubt "Order 66" had been conceived of when ESB was written. It's actually amazing how short people's memories were in the Galaxy Far Far Away. In ANH they're talking about an "ancient religion" that only 20 years prior was running a galactic military operation. It would be like us calling Michael Jordan the "ancient basketball great" or some such thing.

  • Boo wrote: »
    undefined
    DatBoi wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    It seems they are incapable of capturing the Star Wars spirit. A SW story only needs to be a simple adventure with a few neat characters. The OT certainly was not a very complicated story, but it was received much differently.

    It's not the stories that have changed, but the viewers. More specifically, the viewers of the OT that were "raised" on Star Wars. Nothing ever truly compares to your first love. It can't. Your brain isn't made that way. Memories are elusive and ever changing things. In fact, the more we access them, the more we change them and the less authentic and representative they become. We romanticize and idealize these things from the perspective of our youthful selves, without truly realizing the heights they reached are now unobtainable from our current experienced perspective.

    I've watched A New Hope two nights in a row, thanks in large part to a fully indoctrinated child. It holds up for 40 years old, but it really does show its age. It's a great movie to me now because of everything that has come after it. But taking a detached, unemotional look at it - the soundtrack was great - the story is of course timeless, the dialog is weak, the acting average and the direction, atrocious.

    I agreed with almost everything you said there, except the direction of ANH is "atrocious" - please explain this, the movie set up the characters, gave us interesting characters in a dynamic new galaxy that was so creative with cinematography and special effects that it changed cinema history. It also set up the movies that followed brilliantly, unlike TLJ - I mean, what direction does Abrams have left to go in E9 after what occurred in TLJ

    Lets not forget that TFA is basically a carbon copy of ANH, so the first movie did a lot that was right, direction included.

    All of those things you said are true. He's a fantastic world builder and ILM was groundbreaking at the time. I don't think he's good at getting the best (or maybe even good) performances out of actors.
    Just watch the scene in the Millenium Falcon where Luke is training as Han is espousing the benefits of a blaster and Alderaan blows up. Oscar winning Alec Guinness looked like he had just had a bad Taco Bell experience. Any director that can let that end up on the big screen gets an "Atrocious" rating in my book. There are many other examples (e.g., why can't stormtroopers keep their feet?) and maybe I'm jaded by having my hopes dashed by the PT (is that an actor, or a mannequin???)

    Edited post for content. - EA_Cian

    Hahaha - ya true, but the OT in terms of acting was far better than the PT for sure.

    The romance scenes between Anakin and Padme are some of the worst scenes ever in cinema ahistory, they seem so forced and awkward, let alone the famous line:

    "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" lol

    That was right up there with Austin Powers: "Allow myself to introduce...myself" lol - but at least that was actually meant to be funny!

    I personally think people are overly critical of "bad acting". Take the prequels for example. Yeah the love scenes are cheesy but real life is cheesy too. Yes Anakin is awkward as hell but so are most men the first time they try to get a girl to like them. Same with the ot. I am pretty forgiving of "bad acting". Bad story is different. Tbe sequel trilogy just has bad writing. The main character is a mary sue. The main baddy is a little brat that can't beat the mary sue in tbe first movie but we're supposed to be worried about whether he can be stopped in the end? The introduced snoke as a big badass but he was beaten like a brat by emo ren who can't beat mary sue. This is just the tip of the iceburg of bad writing. So a few cheesy lines is nothing compared to the crapfest the new movies are.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian

    You really think Star Wars Attack of the Clones, a sci-fantasy CGI blockbuster for little kids(?), is trying to be a realistic commentary on real life relationships? No. It’s a movie and movies are supposed to be entertaining. There is nothing entertaining about completely unlikable creep who manipulates and lusts after women, kills women and children in cold blood, has zero chemistry with his romantic interest, yet is still supposed to be the protagonist we’re rooting for. Anakin isn’t just a poorly acted characer, he’s also poorly written and poorly directed (this applies to every other character in the PT).

    At least Rey is compassionate, energetic, has a strong moral code, and is clearly established. Sure, she lacks any real character flaws in TFA, but she’s a good person who cares about things worth caring about.

    Dude, you already know he's going to become Darth Vader. He's not going to be all hero. So the murdering tuskins is foreshadowing of what is to come. And there are plenty of real women who stay with men who are bad for them. While you may not agree with Padme on her choices, they are unfortunately plausible when you look at the human condition.

    I don't have a problem with Rey's personality jist the fact that she is handed everything and doesn't have to earn anything. That's bad writing. But you can't compare her morals to Anakin since Anakin isn't the hero but the eventual villain that becomes Darth Vader. It wouldn't make since if he was all pure in the second film.

    A list of “bad” characters who are still well written and entertaining to watch:

    Walter White
    Frank Underwood
    Daniel Plainview
    Kylo Ren (don’t @ me, I’ll always defend him)
    Redmond Barry
    Ledger’s Joker
    Terence Fletcher
    Hans Landa
    Anton Chigurh
    Henry Hill
    A whole mess of people from Game of Thrones
    Michael Peterson (Charles Bronson)
    Jordan Belfort
    The Corleones
    Alexander DeLarge
    Reynolds **** (from Phantom Thread)
    and many others

    And nobody, not even the most awkward man-children talk the way Anakin talks.

    I just can't see kylo ren as a good villain. The problem isn't even with anything his character does. It is mostly when you set him next to Rey he seems underpowered. The same woukd have happened is Luke would have faced Vader in ep 4 and won. It would have diminished Vader as a villain. It would have been so simple to fix this too. They could have had Rey be losing and have the planet start falling apart and end the fight prematurely and have her escape. Or have Luke show up and save her and then actually train her. There really was no good story reason to have the villain lose in the first movie.

    First of all, I listed Kylo Ren as one of many well written "bad" characters. That's not an excuse to further criticize Rey in TFA. Second of all, you didn't address the topic at hand. I'm discussing "bad" characters in a general sense to point out that they don't have to be obnoxious or unintentionally cringy to be effective characters.

    You seem to miss the point that to have a decent villain you have to have them be at least somewhat menacing. In the first part of the movie, they did ok with this but they lost it about half way through when they had him lose. And that would have actually worked ok since snoke was the big baddy and was mysterious and portrayed to be powerful. But then they killed snoke and that leaves only kylo to be the big baddie which just doesn't work. None of it has to do with writing of individual lines or how Adam Driver acted. The acting seems to be ok. Some people complain about that too but as I said earlier, I'm not really picky on that. But the story at this point doesn't have a villain that seems to a threat to the main protagonist.

    I 100% agree - I don't think anyone can dispute that Anakin's lines and acting are poor, hence the name "Mannequin" Skywalker. I think the idea of his fall to Darth Vader is most excellent, but I do not think the PT executed it well enough at all, which is a shame.

    I agree that a good classic theatrical villain must be menacing, like vader was - and you are right, Kylo started out that way. But being beaten by the protagonist (again regardless of gender etc.) is one of the worst bad writing things you can do if you want to carry that villain forward over another 2 movies.

    Adam hands down beats Hayden in the lines and acting department - no disputes there. But ultimately in regard to character arc and overall villain Anakin/Vader trump Ben/Kylo - no doubt.

    You said it better than I did. But I agree completely
  • DuneSeaFarmer
    2930 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    If I had to pick a line/exchange that always makes me cringe, it is on the landing platform on muchtoofar (SWG MMO reference lol) when Obi and Anakin face off.. "I will do what I must" "You will try" … I feel bad for Hayden C. He has some really cheesy lines.
    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • The sad thing is that most of the problems with ep7 could have been fixed with a simple time skip. Even Rey already beating kylo coukd have been explained as him already being wounded and still needing more training from snoke. If they had a time skip, they could have had Rey train for a few years while the fo is slowly taking over the galaxy and kylo is getting more powerful. Even if yoy kept most of the plot of ep8 this would have fixed so much. Many complaints are about how the republic would fall so quickly after star killer base was destroyed. That issue is fixed with a time skip. You could still have Luke be reluctant to train Rey at the beginning and have his arc relatively the same (though I suggest differently). It would allow Rey to have training which would have helped her character arc. But instead they explicitly state that it is almost immediately after and that Rey couldn't have been on the planet with Luke for more than a day or two, during which he teaches her nothing. They gained nothing from this and lost so much. The reason I have no faith in ep 9 is that the same people who thought something like this would work and aporoved it are still in charge.
  • Why is the marvel universe so good and star wars so bad. Disney pull your finger out.
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    Why is the marvel universe so good and star wars so bad. Disney pull your finger out.

    Because there’s enough diversity in the MCU characters to where you can make three movies a year and (most) people won’t feel fatigued.

  • DatBoi wrote: »
    Why is the marvel universe so good and star wars so bad. Disney pull your finger out.

    Because there’s enough diversity in the MCU characters to where you can make three movies a year and (most) people won’t feel fatigued.

    I could watch a new star wars film every week if they were written and directed properly.

  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Why is the marvel universe so good and star wars so bad. Disney pull your finger out.

    Because there’s enough diversity in the MCU characters to where you can make three movies a year and (most) people won’t feel fatigued.

    I could watch a new star wars film every week if they were written and directed properly.

    I’ve always held Star Wars to a higher standard than typical blockbusters like Marvel films. Because of that, I want to savor them and look forward to them. If there’s a new SW film, I want it to feel special and like an event. This applies especially to the “saga” films that I feel should have several years in between. After every trilogy, there should be at least a decade.

    I don’t completely hate the idea of standalone films, but they need to have new (likable) characters, new locations, and be completely seperate from the familiar stories. That means no more movies set during the OT. I’m sick of stormtroopers, x-wings, tie fighters, and all the references to better films made 40 years ago. Give us something new. Take some risks.
Sign In or Register to comment.