It's sad to see a member after another drop the guild because of the rewards. People are leaving to find a guild where they can place higher in raids because lower spots are literally pathetic.
That goes for all the raids but of course the raid takes it to a whole new level. Whatever you people over there are preparing for raid rewards, it better be good and it better come SOON.
Realy, I've been hearing that you're working on it, how hard can it be? My guild has lost 5 members during this time and more will follow. I myself I'm thinking about leaving, I can't reliably get top 10, usually sitting between 10-20 and it hurts to know that each passing raid rewards some people with full pieces which only accelerates the gearing of new squads which then they can go ahead and use to even further expand their damage relative to mine.
I can't stress this enough but you have to reward people equally in order to maintain competitiveness. The difference in gear should not be so big amongst the different ranks. You can still in incentivize people to place higher with shard and salvage rewards.
But seriously how do you justify top 10 getting full pieces and top 11 getting nothing but some poor salvages! I mean it's mind boggling to me that such disparities exist by jumping 1 rank!
What ever has to be done must be done quickly, like next week quickly. I can't stand this unfairness for much longer, you can't convince me that their's some merrit to such steep decline in rewards...
Well here's the thing, differing amounts can be that top 3 get 50 salvages, top 4-10 get 40 salvages, top 11-30 get 30 salvages and top 31-50 get 25 salvages. But what we see is top 10 getting fully crafter pieces and everyone else getting salvages... It's just too much of difference
Ive hit the top ten twice and not recieved a crafted piece yet, though i agree with you that the better you do in a raid should mean better rewards
Coming in at #11 is gut-wrenching, and the guys who already have a 7* Traya are still putting in 200% effort every raid to hit #1. It's bad for alliance morale and unity.
I have won 5 sith heroic in a row, not recieved a single full g12 piece
Our guild is on the cusp of heroic. We did an attempt last week and got 80% through p3. You could probably make it in the top 10 in our guild. I know that isn't the solution you want but it may be the only realistic one. We have a few slots that can be easily opened up. We are currently at 130 mil gp. And are around 38 or 39 stars for tb. Hit me up if you're interested.
Top 3 has a higher chance of fully crafted gear.
I've gotten top three 19 times, and received I think 4 fully crafted pieces.
Top 3 does offer 50-100% of the g12+ salvage, whereas 4-10 only gets 50%, so you can also craft more g12+ in the top 3 than everyone else.
That is a long shot.
A) they join a lesser GP guild that probably isn’t doing HSTR
b) they join a guild that is but they end up in the same boat or worse.
So the long shot is they find that perfect GP guild that is just starting HSTR and are the top member and can place in top 3.
The gear difference is massive. Steadily fell out of Top 50 arena. Now out of top 100. I have 3 valid arena teams and pretty good mods. But now matter who I put in can't keep up with gear difference. If I was greedy would just leave.
People doing better in better guilds should be getting better rewards. But there has to be another way. Traya shards are a pretty great reward already. But that plus the primo gear? Ouch.
The health reduction in T5 and 6 should be a big help, and I'm glad for it. But the gear disparity seems to be the killer.
Every angle i look at it i see negative or useless.
If your guild is not strong enough to get through the raid (let’s focus on heroic), it doesn’t matter since no one get the reward.
The rancor is easy to solo which mean everytime people get screwed by rng for absolutely no reason since they did the same thing as the « winners ». The fact that you can solo while others in your guild can’t make you feel bad, if you solo you always take the best reward and deprive your allies and friends of ressources. If you don’t solo you slow yourself down. No one needs you to solo anyway so it’s not about putting in effort to help the guild.
A personnal experience of mine. Our guild recently became able to complete haat. I’m the only one with an akbar team which means i can start end of p2 and finish the raid. If i do, i take 1st every single time. If i don’t do anything, my guild can still complete it (i tried). So now i feel bad whatever i do. They don’t need my team to do it, but if i use it i secure 1st, if i don’t i loose rewards.
The hstr is too hard for most guilds to even complete. When they do, it requires everyone, which means no reason to reward more some than others. If it doesn’t require everyone, then it doesn’t matter how much you can do since you are not required anyway.
Not even talking about other tiers than heroic, where you actually loose time because of the reward table. Because everyone knows you can do much more damage in p2 than p1, both on aat and str. The closer to the end of p1 the less people attack because they wait for others to get the guild through, so they can put up better numbers.
That’s just the way i see it. It’s never an incentive to help your guild move forward, it’s always a punishment for either rng (multiple solo) or nothing (your score is deemed less valuable than an other when both are not needed). Or worse, it’s an incentive to actually not contribute.
I’ve always hated that system, it’s horrible. It can do nothing except build competition and resentment inside guilds when they are supposed to be a place of cooperation and friendship.
I wouldn’t mind that kind of reward table if you were actually put with random players from your shard to raid for example or’things like this. Then it’s a cooperation between « rivals » so you need to work for all participants but try and put yourself first at the same time. In my own guild i mind.
Edit : i didn’t even say everything i could but at some point you gotta stop^^. I could keep going to be honest. There really isn’t anything positive i can think of.
So to answer the op, i agree. I would like to see it changed.
I've ranked below 10 few times and it was dreadful. If half the guild was able to reach top 10 and fall back to below 10 they would switch guilds in a heartbeat. The difference in rewards is night and day, and they don't know what they are missing out on because they haven't reached the top 10 yet
Sums it up nicely..
Now if we could get a Dev to read it...
So a guild should have to work and coordinate to set up a rotation because the reward structure for a "guild event" designed as a cooperative effort is set up with a competitive rather than cooperative reward structure?
Sorry, but I disagree. Strongly. Guild officers and leader have to do a ton of "work" for this game already (coordinate TW assignments, TB platoons assignments, and deployment guidelines, etc.) They shouldn't have to also coordinate raid rotations to make up for poor reward structures.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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They're talking about heroic... Not tier 6
Now at the moment this only affects Pit (and who cares about Pit anymore), but if 15 people solo it, how come one guy gets 1st place and another gets 15th (and could end up with the same rewards as a zero tapper if the only people hitting solo).
If 15 people solo, they should ALL get 1st. It's not like these raids are giving out crystals.
still better than when it is decided by player id. At least now you sometimes get 1st. And if the same 15 people solo everytime, the rewards are roughly even over a long period and much higher than those that post zeroes over that same long period of time. So that isn't all that big of an issue.
Heroic Sith raid comes out, fledgling guilds lose their top players to guilds who do heroic. Now a lot of those same players are frustrated by rewards, leave the heroic guild to join a small guild who is very close to beating heroic so they can easily finish top 10. A big fish in a small pond so to speak.
A very generalized statement but it looks like some of the guilds are playing out that way.
I haven't seen too many coming down to guilds that are non heroic. I'm in a guild that is almost to heroic and we aren't getting a flood on new high level players.
I think the reason for this is that going from a 180 mil gp guild to a 100 mil gp guild loses more in tb and tw rewards than they gain in hstr rewards.
But if any mid level performers want a better chance at top 10, feel free to come to our guild.
Now, we do a free for all in the raid. We all have at least 1 team that can do damage for each phase.
Yes, the raid can ruins guilds, but not because of the raid itself. Because of the power difference between players.
If a player isnt strong enough to reach top10, he'll go for a guild that can barely do it to hopefully get high scores. If a strong player can do hstr but his guild cant, he'll leave for a stronger one. It all makes sence on a gameplay level.
I left my old guild to beat the haat because they couldnt do much to it, while i clearly could do good damage. Did i feel bad? A bit. But hey, if they cant do it, why slow myself down right? Im willing to share with my guild, but sometimes theres just no helping it. Leaving is often the best choice if your guild has low potential.
Like you said, who cares about Pit, and it literally takes 10 seconds worth of effort within the appropriate five minutes.
That said, fairness along "prize boundaries" is a very real issue. One player misses out on top 10 rewards by 15,000 damage (prize boxes H1-01 and H1-03 vs H1-04 for 11th), but the player in 3rd place is 9 Million damage away from first and ends up with better gear (Same prize boxes).
This is a rich get richer game. It always has been, it always will be and frankly, that's the way it should be. If you put in the effort (either by blood or by gold) you deserve to reap the rewards for that effort. That said, prize boxes should be variable based on damage done, not some arbitrary line drawn around a certain number.
It's not like only one person can get an A on a test, why should the teacher only be able to give out one A?
I think that's a great idea. It woukd still encourage participation. Tge main issue with equalization of rewards is the leech that posts a 0 in the raid doesn't deserve the same rewards as the one that posts 15 mil so the guild could finish. Having it based on damage done eliminates not being able to get decent rewards because others do good as well without unequally rewarding the leeches.
There are no « leeches » in a guild (an horrible word to describe the group of people you chose to share your game experience with). If there are it takes 3 sec and 2 clicks to get rid of them. No need to punish thousands upon thousands of nice people in nice guilds that can’t do as much damage as their fellow guildmates, whatever the reason.
What if they arrive 30 minutes after you ? Wow such leeches to not be there at the second the raid start. What if they went for jtr to help with p1 while you feast on p3 with your nightsisters ? What if they built other teams for another raid, or tb, or tw ? You can’t do that. You can’t decide to share efficiently the workload in the guild. Everyone needs to build all the same teams to do exactly the same task because it’s all about the competition, like your arena shard. You are actually fighting your guildmates, building meta teams, maxing out characters and mods so that you can beat them to get better rewards.
It really is simple. You have a guild event that is supposed to promote team play, with a solo mode reward table. It just doesn’t fit, at all. That’s my opinion.
There are two components to Heroic raid rewards - Fixed (credits, guild currency, GET, shards) and Variable (gear rewards). This thread is ENTIRELY about the variable part of the reward. I agree that fixed rewards should not be modified at all. Let's call it the trade off for the tickets to launch the raid. Great, thanks for the tickets!
Someone that does more damage, for whatever reason - they have a better roster, they're available for the entire raid and not putting kids to bed (guilty!), they put in 30 minutes trying to get the exact right RNG on JTR and Chex, deserve a better variable reward than someone who hasn't done all those things.
Leech might be the wrong word, but the way the rewards currently work, someone doing 9M damage can get the same rewards as someone getting 1.5M damage (ranks 11-20) in strong STR guild. That doesn't strike me as balanced.
Two other points, both related to Sisters in P3 - first, I think it's a broken mechanic. One team shouldn't be able to dramatically outpace all other teams in the entire raid. Second, I think damage should actually be tracked as a percentage of the phase instead of a total number - this would account for the difference in phase composition and teams required to beat them. Just my $0.02.
You can have friendly competition within a guild. I don't get my feelings hurt when someone in my guild puts up more damage in a certain area of the game. I just strive to do better. There are plenty of areas where rewards are equalized like tw or tb already. What is so wrong with having some areas encourage friendly competition in a guild?
But there are absolutely some people in guilds that put forth almost no effort in the raids or other aspects of the game. In raids like pit or haat that ate cleared within hours, fine. Sometimes you just don't have time and it's not like we need full participation anyway.
But in the end game content, their non participation hurts the whole guild. Why should someone that threw one team at the sith raid and got 20k damage get the same rewards as the one that spent 5 teams a day for 3 or 4 days to get 30 million damage? Rewarding those that put in more effort isn't punishing those that don't. And if everyone puts in effort, the raid goes quickly and everyone gets better rewards because you don't get ticket limited.
Btw the term leech is accurate for the type of player I described. They suck the life blood out of your guild. If you don't boot them the actual active players will leave and you'll never reach your goals.
And having tracked low performers as an officer, the low performers on one aspect are typically the low performers on all other aspects.
And yes gp does make a difference but it is pretty easy to look at someone's roster and see what kind of numbers they could potentially be putting up. So there are in fact leeches in guilds.
Why would someone who does more damage deserve better rewards ? It really is beyond me. 99.9% of the time the damage you did would have been done by someone else. Except for hstr for some guilds, no raid needs full 50 members participation to complete. Which means you are effectively useless, or at least no more useful than any other member. Even if it needed full participation of the 50 members, it would still be unfair to reward some more than others since no matter who, they were all required for the guild to complete the raid.
To be honest we will just have to agree to disagree. I see raids as another guild activity. The reward table is not a guild reward, it’s an individual reward. You are competing against your guildmates to get better rewards than them, exactly the way you compete against your shard to get better rewards than them in arena. But it’s ok i guess to each their own. Same as darkhelmet.
Just to answer your last point, it would not work. Nightsisters for example can do much more %wise in p3 or even p4 than a p2 team or even jtr in p1. Even it was not broken or anything, you could not make it so that every single team has the exact same potential in their own phase. Which means that all 50 members of a guild will always need, as individuals and for their own interests only, to build all the meta teams to fight against each other. Raid is a pvp mode.