Galactic War Matchup

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Mykel
10 posts Member
I had played SWGOH for a while in the past, but I put it away for a while and recently came back. My current best team is Level 45 (5*, 5*, 4*, 4*, 2*). I am currently looking at a Galactic War matchup (four nodes from the last) that is a Level 70 Phoenix team (7*, 7*, 6*, 6*, 5*).

If my high school math still holds up, that is a 25 level difference between us, not to mention the star, mod, and abilities differences.

Thoughts?

Replies

  • Kyno
    31718 posts Moderator
    The matching is based on you Galactic War power rating, this is a value based on either your arena team or your best toons (I dont think we ever got an official statement on that). Nodes are then a % of that, some are over 100%.

    Yes this will happen on those nodes that are over 100%. You can build good PvE teams that can crush GW on auto. Being that you have an older account this may take some more development but still doable.

  • Mykel
    10 posts Member
    To be clear, I played previously, but the current account that I am talking about is about a week old. I am currently in the top 30 in the arena...everyday.
  • Kyno
    31718 posts Moderator
    Ok, well then what I said still stands, and likely you developed heavily in arena toons and that may hurt you in GW for a bit.

    So yes its WAI, and you would need to develop multiple teams or a very good GW team to keep that area progressing without hitting the wall
  • Mykel
    10 posts Member
    I have no doubt that it is WAI. I am suggesting that WAI may not be great. As my best toons and my arena team are the same, the percentage above either of those would be the same.

    My Galactic War power rating is 40,000. The arena leader on my shard has a Galactic War power rating of 103,000. The leader's arena team is Level 50, scoundrel team (3*, 5*, 5*, 3*, 3*). Yet, the team that I am currently facing in the Galactic War is starred and geared much better than that. Let's conservatively say that the better team is 150,000 Galactic War power rating.

    I realize that there is always going to be some luck of the draw in the Galactic War, but telling me that some nodes are "then a % of that, some are over 100%" is meaningless if "a %" over that could be an infinite percentage over that.
  • Kyno
    31718 posts Moderator
    The power rating is based on the old system so the current numbers are not accurate to the calculation on the team.

    It is not meant to be easy, it's meant to test your roster development not your best team. It takes extreme focus to not hit the hump in GW, but who is going to focus on that since the rewards are not so great. You will get over the hump and be sailing through just be ok with restarting every once and a while
  • Mykel wrote: »
    My Galactic War power rating is 40,000. The arena leader on my shard has a Galactic War power rating of 103,000. The leader's arena team is Level 50, scoundrel team (3*, 5*, 5*, 3*, 3*).
    Reeeeally? I would love to see a screenshot of that.
    Mykel wrote: »
    Yet, the team that I am currently facing in the Galactic War is starred and geared much better than that. Let's conservatively say that the better team is 150,000 Galactic War power rating.
    Hmmmm. I would love to see a screenshot of that too.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    The power rating is based on the old system so the current numbers are not accurate to the calculation on the team.

    If it is not accurate, then why did you mention the power rating in your first response to me?
    Kyno wrote: »
    It is not meant to be easy, it's meant to test your roster development not your best team. It takes extreme focus to not hit the hump in GW, but who is going to focus on that since the rewards are not so great. You will get over the hump and be sailing through just be ok with restarting every once and a while

    I threw my best team against them and didn't kill any of them. By "extreme focus," I assume you mean more money.

    I don't have a problem with restarting GW. Yesterday I did just that. But that actually was a "test of my roster development." I didn't have enough of a backup to mop up after I had made an initial dent.

    This time though I would need two teams as good as my first to kill the first character on the Level 70 team. Extrapolating, I would need at least 5 teams to kill the entire level 70 team. Of course if I did that it would likely increase the calculation by which opponents are determined in GW. Of course, if the Galactic Power rating is meaningless, then maybe not. Maybe WAI means some days EA just won't let me win no matter how I prepare. Hmm?
  • Mykel
    10 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    My Galactic War Power (40,000)--->
    rt3i402upqs3.jpg

    My Arena Position (#33 before jumping today)--->
    v71gigqylkl7.jpg

    Shard Leader (Level 50, 3* Leader)--->
    p9m30zdsgq14.jpg

    Shard Leader's Full Arena Team (3*, 3*, 3*, 5*, 5*)---->
    igj8n2k4uln1.jpg

    Shard Leader's Inventory with Galactic Power---->
    f8ix7cxzgr00.jpg


    Team Being Currently Faced in Galactic War (Level 70, 5*, 5*, 6*, 7*, 7*) ---->
    ob3eznmyd8yq.jpg

    Kanan in the Level 70 team---->
    355w1ualipus.jpg
  • That’s your entire collection’s Galactic Power which does not affect Galactic War despite the similar name!

    You can’t see your Galactic War rating anymore since swgoh.gg no longer displays it.
  • Mykel
    10 posts Member
    That is a fair enough point, Huatimus. The confusion between myself and the moderator could be because of the two similar names. Perhaps the designers should be more descriptive with their naming system.

    However, can you explain any way in which my Galactic War rating should be considered anywhere near the level 70 squad shown above?

    The moderator stated that the Galactic War is determined by the arena squad or the best toons. The power of my squad is 15,555. The power of the level 70 team is 45,211.

    A challenge is one thing. I had that yesterday and was okay with it. An impossibility is another thing in my mind.
  • Huatimus
    3669 posts Member
    It’s going to be a long explanation but I’ll try to be brief.
    1) Difficulty of your GW opponents do scale to your GW Rating and it increases every 3 nodes so it’s likely to get stuck at nodes 9 and 12. Iirc the scaling goes up to about 120% of your GW Rating.
    2) GW Rating is based on the highest Squad Power you’ve used in any mode so typically that would be your Squad Arena team, but could be your best squad used in Cantina or LS/DS Battles or even GW.
    3) This Power rating is highly weighted towards stats like health and protection so if you have a lot of tanks which are sub par such as Mace Window and CW Chewie, you are only unnecessarily increasing your Rating and hence Difficulty of GW opponents. (Teams with Synergy such as Penix teams don’t get extra Rating so you’d be better off building a team with Synergy too)
    4) Zeta abilities add a lot of Galactic Power but does not add much to GW Rating (since its not Health/Protection) which means you’ll soon face an even bigger hurdle. You’ll meet opponents that have Zeta abilities and you won’t have any of your own.
    5) There are a lot of tips for GW out there such as progressing your entire roster equally, TM loading, Retreat/Retry and you would probably be better off using those tips than trying to complain about GW matchmaking. The rest of us have all been there and done that, good luck.
  • Mykel
    10 posts Member
    Huatimus, I really appreciate the longer explanation. However, it still feels like the goalposts are being moved.

    So, you agree that the highest powered squad team (15k vs. 40k, assuming my opponent has no higher powered squads) has something to do with the GW rating.

    However, if I should instead be looking at the health and protection being heavily weighted, I have 29,645 health in my top 5 toons, even though I don't use them together. I don't have protection because I'm not high enough yet. My other toons have about 35,000 health combined.

    My opponent has 129,545 (health + protection) in just the five toons that I can see.

    Since I can't see my opponent's inventory, I can legitimately only compare my top 5 toons' health versus my opponent's GW squad's health and protection.

    Thus,

    SQUAD POWER
    ME OPPONENT
    15k 40k

    HEALTH AND PROTECTION
    ME OPPONENT
    30k 130k
    Huatimus wrote: »
    ...you would probably be better off using those tips than trying to complain about GW matchmaking. The rest of us have all been there and done that, good luck.

    Yeah, I should probably do this. Except that I'd rather have challenging, not impossible, fun in the game that I paid for.

  • Mykel wrote: »
    Huatimus, I really appreciate the longer explanation. However, it still feels like the goalposts are being moved.

    So, you agree that the highest powered squad team (15k vs. 40k, assuming my opponent has no higher powered squads) has something to do with the GW rating.

    However, if I should instead be looking at the health and protection being heavily weighted, I have 29,645 health in my top 5 toons, even though I don't use them together. I don't have protection because I'm not high enough yet. My other toons have about 35,000 health combined.

    My opponent has 129,545 (health + protection) in just the five toons that I can see.

    Since I can't see my opponent's inventory, I can legitimately only compare my top 5 toons' health versus my opponent's GW squad's health and protection.

    Thus,

    SQUAD POWER
    ME OPPONENT
    15k 40k

    HEALTH AND PROTECTION
    ME OPPONENT
    30k 130k
    Huatimus wrote: »
    ...you would probably be better off using those tips than trying to complain about GW matchmaking. The rest of us have all been there and done that, good luck.

    Yeah, I should probably do this. Except that I'd rather have challenging, not impossible, fun in the game that I paid for.

    Try looking at the tips and guides that are being pointed out,

    Paying means nothing as far as gw is concerned. Squad synergy is important, and you don’t compare your roster To their roster, It’s squad to squad,

    GP is a non effective measure, The sooner you accept that and get past that , the better.

    Gw opponents are based off of the old stat power, not GP, it is a sliding scale , with the final node being roughly 115% of the max squad power (based on stat power scale) of a squad you used to win a fight in either arena, cantina, LS or DS maps.

    That’s how we used to “break” Gw nodes before the devs implemented the “elder” player fix. We would create a squad with a high high stat power that the game was unable to match against, but that’s another story for another day.
  • Huatimus
    3669 posts Member
    That squad power you see is just the sum of Galactic Power of those 5 in the squad. That is still not the Stat Power which GW scales off. I don't know how to calculate that Stat Power and we used to be able to see it in swgoh.GG.

    The fact that GW scales to your roster should also make you realise that the more you pay, the higher your Stat Power, the stronger your opponents. It's specifically designed to give you a challenge that always progresses like you do. Your solution imo is still to build a proper team with synergies since synergies don't count towards Stat Power. Other tips especially like TM loading and so on is useful. Or maybe like saving all your special moves and only use basic attacks to finish off a previous GW node.
  • Mykel
    10 posts Member
    I really appreciate the feedback. This is why I posted this in the Discussion section, but the moderator saw fit to move it here.

    So, if I can't compare the Squad Power or the Health or the Protection, I will go look at the guides more carefully. I was already using several, but not all, of those techniques.

    My frustration is still there, though, because when the arena leader, for example, is better than me, I know why. That person paid more money than I did. However, this matchup has no known rhyme or reason. The only thing anyone is willing to say is WAI, which is a poor way to treat customers.
  • Paying has nothing to do with it. .

    Again, squad synergy matter more then GP, GP is. Worthless tool for comparing squads especially for Gw matches.
  • Rath_Tarr
    4389 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    Paying has nothing to do with it. .

    Again, squad synergy matter more then GP, GP is. Worthless tool for comparing squads especially for Gw matches.
    And high synergy teams like Phoenix are crazy OP at lower levels which is one reason why they are meta there.

    I used to reckon on needing a 20% GP advantage to beat Phoenix with my non meta team. Now at 85, I love stumbling on Phoenix teams to crush (and I'm still non-meta).
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Paying has nothing to do with it. .

    Again, squad synergy matter more then GP, GP is. Worthless tool for comparing squads especially for Gw matches.
    And high synergy teams like Phoenix are crazy OP at lower levels which is one reason why they are meta there.

    I used to reckon on needing a 20% GP advantage to beat Phoenix with my non meta team. Now at 85, I love stumbling on Phoenix teams to crush (and I'm still non-meta).

    Thanks?
  • Kyno
    31718 posts Moderator
    Mykel wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The power rating is based on the old system so the current numbers are not accurate to the calculation on the team.

    If it is not accurate, then why did you mention the power rating in your first response to me?
    Kyno wrote: »
    It is not meant to be easy, it's meant to test your roster development not your best team. It takes extreme focus to not hit the hump in GW, but who is going to focus on that since the rewards are not so great. You will get over the hump and be sailing through just be ok with restarting every once and a while

    I threw my best team against them and didn't kill any of them. By "extreme focus," I assume you mean more money.

    I don't have a problem with restarting GW. Yesterday I did just that. But that actually was a "test of my roster development." I didn't have enough of a backup to mop up after I had made an initial dent.

    This time though I would need two teams as good as my first to kill the first character on the Level 70 team. Extrapolating, I would need at least 5 teams to kill the entire level 70 team. Of course if I did that it would likely increase the calculation by which opponents are determined in GW. Of course, if the Galactic Power rating is meaningless, then maybe not. Maybe WAI means some days EA just won't let me win no matter how I prepare. Hmm?

    There is an old system if GP the calculations for GW are based on the old system and we dont see those values. The current values seen are not accurate to that formula.

    No I dont mean money at all. I mean your roster. I have an alt account at lvl 84 that has never not cleared GW. I play it very causal and just for fun to see where things are at on that end. I have a very well diversified and GW focused set of teams, all free.

    There are many strategies to get through any GW set, Phoenix can basically do it all by themselves, healing and protection recovery are key. My backup team is palp lead with thrawn for some good offensive power with good recovery.

    The old school is a good resistance team under finn, but that needs a zeta.
  • Hey Mykel, welcome to the game and the forums! May I try to assist?

    You need to forget some preconceived notions you seem to have about Galactic War (GW):
    • The Galactic Power (GP) rating shown in your total inventory screen has no effect on the GW table.
    • Your arena rank has no effect on the GW table.
    • Your shard leader's GP has no effect on the GW table.
    • You do not need to spend $$$ to succeed on the GW table.
    Congratulations on arena rank #33! You are doing well this early in the game. If you wish, you can spend $$$ to speed up your progression, but it is not required. Some spend, some do not; the choice is always yours.

    If you feel like the GW goalposts are being moved, that is because they are. The table does get harder as you build your own roster; this is done to keep the game mode challenging. Don't let this bother you too much, though. The table caps out when you reach level 80 so that eventually you can achieve GW mastery.

    GW scaling used to be a hotly debated topic and a number of players (myself included) did extensive data tracking to try to figure it out.*** The exact GW scaling mechanic has not been disclosed, but some of our conclusions were vaguely confirmed by the devs.This is what we do know about GW battle scaling:
    • Character Power (CP) increases as you build your character. Characters with more health/protection generally have higher CP. Forget zetas for now.
    • Squad Power (SP) is the total CP of all squad members.
    • The GW table audits your inventory and determines a base SP rating from your 5 most powerful characters. Exactly how this Top5 is selected is debatable, but for most players it is exactly the same as their arena team.
    • Each GW node is scaled to your base SP.
    • The purple nodes (N3, N6, N9, N12) get progressively stronger. The intervening nodes are weaker to give you a chance to recover a bit, although N11 is stronger than everything that came before.

    CP calculations were reworked some time ago to account for the addition of Zeta abilities, and to try to better account for things like speed while reducing the contribution of health & protection. However, the old CP calculations are still running in the background, and are still used to perform GW scaling. These old (but still used) power ratings are called Stat Power. You cannot see your characters' Stat Power anywhere in game. They tell us Stat Power is not affected by Zeta abilities. The good news is that it really does not matter too much how Stat Power is calculated; what is important is that you realize that upgrading characters may increase your base Stat Power, and that high Health/Protection characters are more likely to boost your Stat Power, which will boost the difficulty of your GW table.

    What to do about this? You will find N11 and N12 to be very challenging, sometimes impossible with your limited inventory. Many of us chose to build our rosters outwards instead of upwards; build more squads to bring to bear. After all, GW is a war and is intended to task your roster, to encourage you to build characters with unique abilities to help you counter your opponents. If you do build outward for GW success, you will probably have to devote less resources to your arena team, and may slide backward in the rankings.

    If you are unwilling to sacrifice arena rankings for GW success, you can always work on both at the same time, but that road is probably paved with $$$. Up to you.

    *** Would you like to know more?
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/58770/deconstructing-the-galactic-war-power-curve-a-detailed-look
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/66883/galactic-war-power-by-node-where-are-we-now
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/101503/about-that-easy-n12-and-power-levels-48k-is-about-right
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Paying has nothing to do with it. .

    Again, squad synergy matter more then GP, GP is. Worthless tool for comparing squads especially for Gw matches.
    And high synergy teams like Phoenix are crazy OP at lower levels which is one reason why they are meta there.

    I used to reckon on needing a 20% GP advantage to beat Phoenix with my non meta team. Now at 85, I love stumbling on Phoenix teams to crush (and I'm still non-meta).

    Thanks?
    You are welcome! :D

    Point being there will come a time when you can get sweet revenge on the Phoenix-weenies. >:)
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Paying has nothing to do with it. .

    Again, squad synergy matter more then GP, GP is. Worthless tool for comparing squads especially for Gw matches.
    And high synergy teams like Phoenix are crazy OP at lower levels which is one reason why they are meta there.

    I used to reckon on needing a 20% GP advantage to beat Phoenix with my non meta team. Now at 85, I love stumbling on Phoenix teams to crush (and I'm still non-meta).

    Thanks?
    You are welcome! :D

    Point being there will come a time when you can get sweet revenge on the Phoenix-weenies. >:)

    I know you aren’t trying to enlighten me to that fact
  • Mykel
    10 posts Member
    Kyno, there was obviously a communication breakdown earlier about what power rating was being referred to. It happens. Language is not exact. I'm sorry for my part of the misunderstanding.

    Despite that, I still come back to the issue of my best squad only being able to slice through half of one of my opponent's toons before I was slaughtered. I'm not sure how that is scaled to my level.

    I do understand the point of needing to be more diversified for GW, which is why I said before that I had no problem when I petered out toward the final few nodes on the day before I faced the level 70 team. I realize that I am not running a GW specific setup.

  • Mykel wrote: »
    Despite that, I still come back to the issue of my best squad only being able to slice through half of one of my opponent's toons before I was slaughtered. I'm not sure how that is scaled to my level.
    Should see my last node today: lvl 85 g12 zeta Commander Luke Skywalker with a side of 85 g11 Wiggs & Chaze. RIP my squad. :(
  • Mykel
    10 posts Member
    EventineElessedil, again, I appreciate the feedback.
    You need to forget some preconceived notions you seem to have about Galactic War (GW):
    • The Galactic Power (GP) rating shown in your total inventory screen has no effect on the GW table.
    • Your arena rank has no effect on the GW table.
    • Your shard leader's GP has no effect on the GW table.
    • You do not need to spend $$$ to succeed on the GW table.

    Except for the GP issue, I didn't actually have these preconceived notions. Kyno mentioned that either my arena team or my best toons were part of the calculation for the Galactic War power rating. Kyno also made the understandable assumption that I was working on an old account. I mentioned my rank to show that it wasn't an older account. I mentioned the leader on my shard to show the highest GP that I had access to. The point was to make an extrapolation about the GP of the Level 70 Team. Again, if GP is irrelevant, I am okay with putting away that idea. The point about money was a sarcastic comment because Kyno mentioned that it would take "extreme focus" not to hit the hump in GW, and I'm not sure how I could have gotten to Level 45 and been able to destroy a Level 70 team. I could have built out as you said, but that would have been a lot of building out to take that team on, and I'm still not sure how I could have gotten around a Level 70 Phoenix team's protection regeneration abilities.
    GW scaling used to be a hotly debated topic and a number of players (myself included) did extensive data tracking to try to figure it out.*** The exact GW scaling mechanic has not been disclosed, but some of our conclusions were vaguely confirmed by the devs.This is what we do know about GW battle scaling:
    • Character Power (CP) increases as you build your character. Characters with more health/protection generally have higher CP. Forget zetas for now.
    • Squad Power (SP) is the total CP of all squad members.
    • The GW table audits your inventory and determines a base SP rating from your 5 most powerful characters. Exactly how this Top5 is selected is debatable, but for most players it is exactly the same as their arena team.
    • Each GW node is scaled to your base SP.
    • The purple nodes (N3, N6, N9, N12) get progressively stronger. The intervening nodes are weaker to give you a chance to recover a bit, although N11 is stronger than everything that came before.

    This is similar to what other folks stated before. This is why I mentioned the SP and Health/Protection of myself and the opponent before.

    SQUAD POWER
    ME OPPONENT
    15k 40k

    HEALTH AND PROTECTION
    ME OPPONENT
    30k 130k

    If I understand your calculations from your other posts that you linked, I would expect to see an opponent's squad power of about 100% of my own on Node 9 where I was. Your links are a bit old, but I assume you still think they're relevant since you posted them here.

    I'm not sure how my opponent would be considered 100% of mine given the SP and Health and Protection differences between us. The 100% might be running average so that if I saw an opponent who was 200% of mine I would see one of 0% so that it would balance out. Perhaps on Node 9 there was the Level 70 team and then on Node 10 there was a Level 1 team.

    I guess I am just having trouble with the idea that the Level 70 team is scaled to either my Arena Squad, my Top 5 toons, or even my entire roster. Like I mentioned earlier my opponent (in just the five toons that I could see) has more than twice the health and protection of my entire roster.

    That's a heck of a 100%.

    If I am looking at your numbers incorrectly, let me know how. Again, I am okay with restarting GW because my roster runs out of steam. There is always some attrition in GW, but I am having a problem with the possibility of my entire roster being slaughtered by one squad that killed all of my toons before I killed one of my opponent's. To call that scaled is a stretch in my mind.
  • HughMothma
    1 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    In same boat as OP. All I want to know is if GW is meant to be switched off at some point until reaching end-game (or at least some days when RNG is being unkind). All the advice here has been helpful and thoughtful, but no amount of planning/depth of roster would be able to get past the match-up he mentions. My own troubles shown below, same issue.

    My best 5 toons:
    qw50b2fv21y6.jpg

    My opponent:
    y6ym61iqzlto.jpg

    Opponents SP approx 37k, my SP approx 16k. This is not a "challenge". It's impossible. All I want to know is if this is a broken match up system or if this is what everyone runs into. If so I'll stop my whining and keep grinding knowing that I probably won't get past the first few nodes until later.
  • The power creep in GW is ridonculous, I understand that it's meant to be hard, however, how are you meant to been teams like this, while you're still levelling?

    z0swpxf9o6kv.png

    This isn't isolated. Last week, I didn't even make it past the second node.

    I'm using a 7-Star Phoenix (as that my best roster). Once they're gone, it's pointless to continue.

    This is my Phoenix team:

    z4v66xodk15h.png


  • I've run into something similar on the very first node for my account.
    f4nsfrv64n7m.png
    This is my collection:
    uogcdb33yepp.png
    I just hit level 63. This seems very broken, to me.
  • Last two days of GW has been sooo frustrating to me as well. I am L56, Phoenix - only two with Gear 7, rest gear 6 (struggling to farm all that's needed, it's really slow going). Yesterday, node 6 had Bastilla - with a full team on gear 8, 21 levels higher than me. Today, not even that lucky. Got Bastilla on node 3, again, 20 levels higher than me, this time only 3 of her toons was gear 8, 2 was gear 7. Bastilla is crazy. How do I even try? No, I don't have another team. I'm trying to get my phoenix squad to at least 5* - for Thrawn and EP. I don't even have a Scoundrel team yet. Yes I know, broaden out. But what if EP or Thrawn comes out? I do understand that you need to sweat it out a bit, but unplayable nodes? How does that help me grow? It frustrates me, yes. It makes me want to quit - oh yes. I see that all the end player guys are saying it gets better, but right now I don't see that rainbow at the end, I see a solid brick wall!
  • Sometimes, the way forward is to try again tomorrow. Yes, there are sometimes nodes you can't beat. The key is to keep building, until that happens less often.
    Still not a he.
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