I believe drop rates are actually 0.30, not 0.33, so the numbers might need to be tweaked a bit.
Also, it makes the assumption that as soon as Bastila and Jolee went F2P, players had to start farming them exclusively (and inefficiently).
I know that I started farming Bastila and Jolee 16 sims each daily (not 24) upon first release, and then I was exclusively Bastila, Jolee, and Zaalbar with regular energy (and Zaalbar with fleet) energy as soon as they were released.
I also started buying 3x cantina energy refreshes for T3 and Mission the day they were released, plus every cantina energy pack - and my math wasn't adding up to finishing Mission by the end.
If this is so, then where's the Legendary event for the Rogue One faction tag or the legendary event for the Smuggler faction tag? Shall I go on? Just because a new faction tag is released with new characters doesn't always mean that we'll be getting a legendary for it.
The Rogue One characters were released way more spread out (about 8 moths), through different methods (login character, tournaments, even Chromium, I think), and most importantly, before the character release cadence, the Hero's Journey, or especially the Rogue One tag were even things. And Smugglers have their event already.
Although I do think he was possible to get for f2p players. If enough crystals were saved up, the packs were quite good value compared to the 1,299 for 5-8 shards packs.
Pyrefly puts time and effort into masterfully analyzing a scenario in which a F2P player can get Revan, and just because it isn't THEIR scenario they complain.
C'mon, guys... let's ease up on the complaints.
I don't get 800 crystals a day either, but people in my guild do and this is a solid analysis by Pyrefly.
Just take the time, farm the KOTOR toons, wait until the 2nd or 3rd time the Revan event comes around, and get him then. It isn't unfair. We did the same thing with Veteran Han and Veteran Chewie for RTJ. Don't be so bitter about a game you don't even pay money to enjoy.
Also, it makes the assumption that as soon as Bastila and Jolee went F2P, players had to start farming them exclusively (and inefficiently).
Actually, the whole point of the post was about farming them as efficiently as possible. Panic farming (through the simple expedient of lots and lots of refreshes) is only efficient in regards to time, not to crystal cost. And the post also serves to show that the time was not as much of a concern for Bastila and Jolee farming.
"The dedicated, high-end, focused F2P player should be able to get Revan on the first time."
As a f2p player who gets top 3 in squad and first in fleet arena daily, kindly consider taking up kicking rocks as a hobby in place of forum posting. You disingenuously equate possible with reasonable. Dedication, high-end arena-ranked, focused F2P players almost unanimously missed out on Revan this first event. Look at the data, poll the shard chats, compile a list. I would be willing to wager that fewer than 10% of the f2p folks who get top ranks in both arenas unlocked Revan. If you are going to claim 90% of those people lack dedication and/or focus, I really think you're living in a fantasy world.
I also started buying 3x cantina energy refreshes for T3 and Mission the day they were released, plus every cantina energy pack - and my math wasn't adding up to finishing Mission by the end.
My math was done with average RNG in mind. Unfortunately, you can do everything right and bad RNG can still block you. There will be just as many people with good RNG as bad RNG, although I don't expect that to be a consolation to those who had the bad RNG.
No way is drop rate 1/3. I’m averaging 1/8 - 2/8 shards per day for a long time now. Some days are 0/8 some are 3/8
1/3 of 8 is 2.6666. So with average RNG, you should naturally be seeing a lot of 2s and 3s. If your results are lower than that, then you've had some bad RNG.
The farming way you posted is actually super relevant and i thank you for that. I'm slow farming the kotor, i'll get him at 3rd event. The problem lies in the way you say that F2P could get revan - How many of them actually got him ? The number of coincidences you say "we should have foreseen" is just too high to be truly considered.
F2P is all about managing with small income, as you said - we don't waste our income on a gamble. We could have 100% gambled on marquees with jango fett and other BH- in the style of another hero's journey asking for the marquees.
Any F2P who does this kind of gamble won't last long - he messes up one time and he will inevitably go down in arena.
EDIT :
And you really should consider that we believed CG on "No event requiring marquees will be set soon".
Amusing to think that the ‘average’ player can make nearly 800 crystals a day...considering realistically it’s closer to half that.
I said "average RNG", not "average F2P player". I specifically stated that not everyone is capable of getting 800 crystals a day, but that that total could be offset by laying in a stockpile of crystals. A stockpile was not absolutely necessary, however, for the high-end F2Pers.
Whatever u said initially is All nonsense. You left out the most important thing. You base on the assumption that you already knew about the event start date.
But in reality no one knows about except the people who work at CG when they announce.it. Look back....when did the Revan Event first was announced to the public? Now do your math and calculations from there and see if any F2P can do it without spending a dime.
"The dedicated, high-end, focused F2P player should be able to get Revan on the first time."
As a f2p player who gets top 3 in squad and first in fleet arena daily, kindly consider taking up kicking rocks as a hobby in place of forum posting. You disingenuously equate possible with reasonable. Dedication, high-end arena-ranked, focused F2P players almost unanimously missed out on Revan this first event. Look at the data, poll the shard chats, compile a list. I would be willing to wager that fewer than 10% of the f2p folks who get top ranks in both arenas unlocked Revan. If you are going to claim 90% of those people lack dedication and/or focus, I really think you're living in a fantasy world.
You'll note that I said "should be able to get", not "should have gotten". And I never said that people who didn't lacked focus, but merely that they had focused on other goals. People make choices. Not every "dedicated, high-end, focused F2P player" had to choose to be focused on getting Revan the first time as a priority. But if they did choose to focus on Revan, it was definitely possible.
Kudos. I appreciate your hard work on this. I think using color is a great way to clarify points. My impressions:
Presentation is confusing (sorry). I also use too many words, I know the struggle. Arrange the data differently for clearer results.
Faction packs are not a viable F2P farming method. I mean ... come ON.
Abandoning on-going character farms for the latest flavor is never a good idea. You can't seriously recommend this as a good F2P path. Yet this is what you would have needed to do in order to chase the KOTOR carrot.
800 crystals/day = F2P. Really?
It is theoretically possible to hoard up 5k-15k crystals, but it is not a practical F2P approach. There are raids, TBs, TWs, etc. Everyone must pull their weight which means roster building, and that takes crystals.
Anyway, thanks for putting all the thought into it. Possible? Yeah. Probable? No. Feasible? Not even close.
I mean it looks like you put a lot of effort into this post but I think your chances of hitting this are almost 0. This is very misleading and really just garbage if you actually look at how the game plays out.
I did actually get Revan without spending anything but saying this I had 20k crystals saved up. I get 900 crystals a day from arenas, that excludes extras from TB, dailies, etc.
When each toon came out, I farmed them with an additional 2 refreshes per toon per day. I managed to get Revan a day before the event ended with only 700 crystals left.
You would need way more than "average RNG" to do what you are saying.
I mean you in theory only need 3500 crystals to get Revan... just buy 5 packs and get 330 shards for each toon. Problem with that is it's just not going to happen...
Well, I failed. I had a 12k crystal stash, after blowing a chunk on Chewie a very short time ago. The faction packs were great, until you start pulling Bastilla when she is already at 7 stars. In the 10 I bought, 7 of which were Bastilla. Pretty hard when it is not divided perfectly. It feels pretty disgusting cashing in Bastilla shards when Zaalbar is sitting at 4 stars. I was burning far, far more crystals per day in preparation, and wasn't close. Had I bought a vault and the 50 shard packs, I could have made it.
This is a ridiculous post. I’m one of the very few F2P who finishes 1st in both arena and fleet and I started farming the OR toons from day 1. I still would’ve ended up about 60 Mission shards short of Revan. I already have Bastila, Jolee, Zaalbar and T3 at 7*. Then you go on to say it was possible without stockpiling crystals?? Absolutely crazy
I also started buying 3x cantina energy refreshes for T3 and Mission the day they were released, plus every cantina energy pack - and my math wasn't adding up to finishing Mission by the end.
My math was done with average RNG in mind. Unfortunately, you can do everything right and bad RNG can still block you. There will be just as many people with good RNG as bad RNG, although I don't expect that to be a consolation to those who had the bad RNG.
Edit: sorry for the crappy formatting. I can't get these posts to space sentences and paragraphs appropriately.
My math is also done with "average RNG" in mind, and has players not finishing Mission until 10/31, despite 3x cantina energy refreshes, plus all 3 cantina packs.
I used the same starting assumption: T3 & Mission both at 50/330.
I am also calculating based on standard RNG rates, not my specific results. I believe your math is off somewhere. Let me convert my Excel spreadsheet into text to show you my calculations:
3x 120 Cantina energy refreshes per day + 45 bonus + 120 accumulated = 525 daily cantina energy.
Farming T3 shards = 12 energy per sim.
(525 energy/day / 12 energy/sim) = 43.75 sims per day
44 sims per day * 0.3 shards per sim = 13.13 shards per day.
I'm going to apply all three Cantina Energy packs to T3 for simplification:
1920 cantina energy = 160 sims = 48 T3 shards.
So instead of starting T3's farming calculations at 50/330, I'll start at 98/330. In order to farm the remaining 232 shards at 13.125 shards per day, you'll need to farm only T3 from 9/26 - 10/14.
Now on to Mission!
Farming Mission shards = 16 energy per sim.
(525 energy/day / 16 energy/sim) = 32.8 sims per day
33 sims per day * 0.3 shards per sim = 9.84 shards per day.
We've already used up our Cantina energy packs on T3, and there are only 10 days left in the farm!
To be generous, we will call it a 10 shards per day x 10 days = 100 shards, so I'm left with Mission at 150/330.
Now let's total up our crystal spending on just these two:
3 energy packs at 600 per pack = 1800 crystals
3 daily energy refreshes at 100 per refresh = 300 daily crystals x 29 days = 8700 crystals
Buying the last 180 shards of Mission at 80c per shard = 14,400 crystals
Total for T3 & Mission = 24,900 crystals
24,900 crystals over 29 days = 859 crystals per day, just to get T3 & Mission to 7* with no money, without spending a single crystal on Bastila, Jolee, or Zaalbar in that period.
If this was a legendary event and unlockable at 5* the response would be way different.
If zaal was placed in guild store the response would be way different.
People get so mad at the forums complaining but this was kitten requirements. CG knows that. We all know it. The vets were a terrible requirement as well.
Just wait till the next journey when the requirements are still in chromium only and players will be told “well you knew it would happen you should’ve put $300 in the game and bought them outright.”
I appreciate the work that went in ops post though. These forums aren’t very user friendly.
@Pyrefly Thanks for the retro-analysis. I was one of those F2P's who followed almost the exact course you described. Except I was running Bastila in arena and blew all my crystals on her in the crystal shop to get her to 6 star, which was like 15k or so. I had been hoarding crystals ever since the announcement of the toons. Had I not done that, I probably would've been able to do it completely f2p. I went all out, although I wasn't double refreshing Zaalbar's nodes until the actual announcement, and I would've been about 40 Mission shards and 11 Zaalbar shards short by the end of the event. Check the link for my data. I had just been given a $50 itunes gift card from my guild leader for some swgoh-related work, so I decided to get their pack. But I can confirm that had I been a mite more committed to the speculation, I would've made it completely f2p.
Props for the effort making this post, doing the math etc. But in reality it is just ridiculous. Yes it was POSSIBLE to get Revan f2p, be it with saved up crystals or not. But why making a post/guide that addresses like 0.00001% of all f2p players at best. I am f2p as well and get around 500-700 crystals per day but I wouldn't even have been close to getting Revan even if I tried so I didn't even start (and don't regret it). Just because it's theoretically possible, doesn't mean it's practically possible. Hey, it's also possible to win the jackpot in the lottery so we should all play! And if you don't win then it's because of your poor number management. I'll give you a thumbs up for the effort because it obviously took a while to make that post, but in practice it's all nonsense.
@jkray622 A couple comments. I don't dispute your math. The drop rate of 0.3 makes a minor difference. But the time where the hypothetical player is saving up for the event started with the Bastila and Jolee announcement. During this time, the player is going to be earning more than they are spending, so they can spend more than they are earning after T3, Mission, and Zaalbar are f2p.
In my guild 10 out of 50 got Revan. Allmost no one spend real money, but they can collect the 800 cristals every day. The rest of us were not able to do it, eventhough we can collect like 500 cristals a day. Most of us also believed Revan will be a Legendary toon.
I didn’t have a huge stash of crystals saved at the time of his event (about 2,500) and I can only make top 50 in the arenas so it wasn’t possible for me. But at least this proves that it was possible for someone to get him without spending.
@jkray622 A couple comments. I don't dispute your math. The drop rate of 0.3 makes a minor difference. But the time where the hypothetical player is saving up for the event started with the Bastila and Jolee announcement. During this time, the player is going to be earning more than they are spending, so they can spend more than they are earning after T3, Mission, and Zaalbar are f2p.
If we just use the same rates that PyreFly listed, he was spending 300c per day on the Bastila and Jolee, so his "800c/day" earning rate means that he could pocket 500c per day for 9/12-9/26 period. Over 14 days, he could bank 7000 crystals.
Now, since the farming of T3/Mission took 859 per day, but he's only earning 800c per day, he has to spend 59 of those 7000 every day, which subtracts a total of 1711, and leaves the player with an available balance of 5289 crystals.
Those 5289 crystals have to earn this player:
308 Bastila/Jolee shards (the remainder as of 9/26, per Pyre's calculations)
280 Zaalbar shards
With only 5289 to spend, that's 182 crystals per day, which is only enough to buy the 3 regular energy refreshes each day, plus one node refresh. It was impossible to earn them without a starting stash of crystals.
Great post- shows what is Possible and how to achieve it IF that is one’s chosen path- People who want to find a way can and will- people who want to find a NO way will always have an easier search
That whole estimate was based on the assumption that you knew the event was coming and was coming sooner than anybody expected (unreasonable, IMHO). It was also based on the assumption that Revan was worth the investment (reasonable) and gear requirements would be negligible (iffy).
Using the same logic, you need to farm all the characters and ships as soon as they are released to FTP using all the cheap refreshes of all the energy types. It makes zero sense to do that, as thousands of crystals must be spent on gear and mats just so you can stay competitive in the arenas and be prepared for the events that require common but GL12 geared characters.
Sorry bud, A- for the effort, but do go easier on the assumptions next time. Mathematical possibility means very little in real life as only hindsight is 20/20.
This post is just a polite and extremely detailed way of saying "it's possible to get this (insert ingame item here) if you take the appropriate action at the appropriate time". It's basically possible, but improbable. The same can be said of any game on any system. Sweaty tryhards, no-lifers and whales who are willing to drop fat stacks of cash on ingame swag are always going to get the new hotness. And, odds are they'll get it before you. I've resigned myself to this fact, and made peace with it. I always ask myself, "how much do i really want this? And how much do i want to work for it, and invest in it?" Then i make my decision based on those answers. And when a game meant to be fun, turns into work? Gents, that's where i draw the line. And Don't ever forget that CG is anything other than a business. They are here to make money, or they don't have a job. To expect them to do anything counter to that is just foolish.
Replies
Also, it makes the assumption that as soon as Bastila and Jolee went F2P, players had to start farming them exclusively (and inefficiently).
I know that I started farming Bastila and Jolee 16 sims each daily (not 24) upon first release, and then I was exclusively Bastila, Jolee, and Zaalbar with regular energy (and Zaalbar with fleet) energy as soon as they were released.
I also started buying 3x cantina energy refreshes for T3 and Mission the day they were released, plus every cantina energy pack - and my math wasn't adding up to finishing Mission by the end.
134/360 with some really ugly stretches and some really great ones (7/8 + Omega once).
37.22%
C'mon, guys... let's ease up on the complaints.
I don't get 800 crystals a day either, but people in my guild do and this is a solid analysis by Pyrefly.
Just take the time, farm the KOTOR toons, wait until the 2nd or 3rd time the Revan event comes around, and get him then. It isn't unfair. We did the same thing with Veteran Han and Veteran Chewie for RTJ. Don't be so bitter about a game you don't even pay money to enjoy.
As a f2p player who gets top 3 in squad and first in fleet arena daily, kindly consider taking up kicking rocks as a hobby in place of forum posting. You disingenuously equate possible with reasonable. Dedication, high-end arena-ranked, focused F2P players almost unanimously missed out on Revan this first event. Look at the data, poll the shard chats, compile a list. I would be willing to wager that fewer than 10% of the f2p folks who get top ranks in both arenas unlocked Revan. If you are going to claim 90% of those people lack dedication and/or focus, I really think you're living in a fantasy world.
@Pyrefly
F2P is all about managing with small income, as you said - we don't waste our income on a gamble. We could have 100% gambled on marquees with jango fett and other BH- in the style of another hero's journey asking for the marquees.
Any F2P who does this kind of gamble won't last long - he messes up one time and he will inevitably go down in arena.
EDIT :
And you really should consider that we believed CG on "No event requiring marquees will be set soon".
Whatever u said initially is All nonsense. You left out the most important thing. You base on the assumption that you already knew about the event start date.
But in reality no one knows about except the people who work at CG when they announce.it. Look back....when did the Revan Event first was announced to the public? Now do your math and calculations from there and see if any F2P can do it without spending a dime.
Edited to remove swearing shorthand. - EA_Cian
- Presentation is confusing (sorry). I also use too many words, I know the struggle. Arrange the data differently for clearer results.
- Faction packs are not a viable F2P farming method. I mean ... come ON.
- Abandoning on-going character farms for the latest flavor is never a good idea. You can't seriously recommend this as a good F2P path. Yet this is what you would have needed to do in order to chase the KOTOR carrot.
- 800 crystals/day = F2P. Really?
- It is theoretically possible to hoard up 5k-15k crystals, but it is not a practical F2P approach. There are raids, TBs, TWs, etc. Everyone must pull their weight which means roster building, and that takes crystals.
Anyway, thanks for putting all the thought into it. Possible? Yeah. Probable? No. Feasible? Not even close.I did actually get Revan without spending anything but saying this I had 20k crystals saved up. I get 900 crystals a day from arenas, that excludes extras from TB, dailies, etc.
When each toon came out, I farmed them with an additional 2 refreshes per toon per day. I managed to get Revan a day before the event ended with only 700 crystals left.
You would need way more than "average RNG" to do what you are saying.
I mean you in theory only need 3500 crystals to get Revan... just buy 5 packs and get 330 shards for each toon. Problem with that is it's just not going to happen...
Edit: sorry for the crappy formatting. I can't get these posts to space sentences and paragraphs appropriately.
My math is also done with "average RNG" in mind, and has players not finishing Mission until 10/31, despite 3x cantina energy refreshes, plus all 3 cantina packs.
I used the same starting assumption: T3 & Mission both at 50/330.
I am also calculating based on standard RNG rates, not my specific results. I believe your math is off somewhere. Let me convert my Excel spreadsheet into text to show you my calculations:
3x 120 Cantina energy refreshes per day + 45 bonus + 120 accumulated = 525 daily cantina energy.
Farming T3 shards = 12 energy per sim.
(525 energy/day / 12 energy/sim) = 43.75 sims per day
44 sims per day * 0.3 shards per sim = 13.13 shards per day.
I'm going to apply all three Cantina Energy packs to T3 for simplification:
1920 cantina energy = 160 sims = 48 T3 shards.
So instead of starting T3's farming calculations at 50/330, I'll start at 98/330. In order to farm the remaining 232 shards at 13.125 shards per day, you'll need to farm only T3 from 9/26 - 10/14.
Now on to Mission!
Farming Mission shards = 16 energy per sim.
(525 energy/day / 16 energy/sim) = 32.8 sims per day
33 sims per day * 0.3 shards per sim = 9.84 shards per day.
We've already used up our Cantina energy packs on T3, and there are only 10 days left in the farm!
To be generous, we will call it a 10 shards per day x 10 days = 100 shards, so I'm left with Mission at 150/330.
Now let's total up our crystal spending on just these two:
3 energy packs at 600 per pack = 1800 crystals
3 daily energy refreshes at 100 per refresh = 300 daily crystals x 29 days = 8700 crystals
Buying the last 180 shards of Mission at 80c per shard = 14,400 crystals
Total for T3 & Mission = 24,900 crystals
24,900 crystals over 29 days = 859 crystals per day, just to get T3 & Mission to 7* with no money, without spending a single crystal on Bastila, Jolee, or Zaalbar in that period.
If zaal was placed in guild store the response would be way different.
People get so mad at the forums complaining but this was kitten requirements. CG knows that. We all know it. The vets were a terrible requirement as well.
Just wait till the next journey when the requirements are still in chromium only and players will be told “well you knew it would happen you should’ve put $300 in the game and bought them outright.”
I appreciate the work that went in ops post though. These forums aren’t very user friendly.
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/op9ikflu9q
The point of this post was not that many F2P's did get him, but that it was possible. Which it was.
If we just use the same rates that PyreFly listed, he was spending 300c per day on the Bastila and Jolee, so his "800c/day" earning rate means that he could pocket 500c per day for 9/12-9/26 period. Over 14 days, he could bank 7000 crystals.
Now, since the farming of T3/Mission took 859 per day, but he's only earning 800c per day, he has to spend 59 of those 7000 every day, which subtracts a total of 1711, and leaves the player with an available balance of 5289 crystals.
Those 5289 crystals have to earn this player:
308 Bastila/Jolee shards (the remainder as of 9/26, per Pyre's calculations)
280 Zaalbar shards
With only 5289 to spend, that's 182 crystals per day, which is only enough to buy the 3 regular energy refreshes each day, plus one node refresh. It was impossible to earn them without a starting stash of crystals.
Using the same logic, you need to farm all the characters and ships as soon as they are released to FTP using all the cheap refreshes of all the energy types. It makes zero sense to do that, as thousands of crystals must be spent on gear and mats just so you can stay competitive in the arenas and be prepared for the events that require common but GL12 geared characters.
Sorry bud, A- for the effort, but do go easier on the assumptions next time. Mathematical possibility means very little in real life as only hindsight is 20/20.