GP Matchmaking & “Fluff”

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Vicarious
153 posts Member
edited December 7
How is it that a guild and a players GP is the key factor in TW and Grand Arena? Why should a player or guild be put at a disadvantage because they have worked on building up more of their roster?

It would appear to me that matching players/guilds based on their GP was the easy way for CG to determine matchmaking. The Easy way is not always the best way. The matchmaking criteria certainly needs a major overhaul and quick.

Didn’t we pretty much already go over this with “Paper” zombie? Not going to quote CG but will post a screenshot from their own post below.

Posting just one screenshot of many from a Discord chat and also a screenshot from the CG post about “Paper” zombie and how not leveling up characters goes against the way the game was intended.

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Replies

  • @EA @CG are you guys going to keep your word about going with the spirit of invest in characters as it is a core pillar?
    https://swgoh.gg/u/fahrius/ - Discord - Fahrius#1194
  • Gair
    142 posts Member
    This is a situation i'm currently in. My GP is scaled high because of lowbie trash toons and their stars, not actual G12s or relative power. It in tally makes my total higher, but this type of matchmaking provides guaranteed losses.
  • Kaziglubey
    64 posts Member
    edited December 7
    ^^^ this.

    Peoples priorities are different. I play for love tw/ arena first. Raids 2nd. Then tb etc last. My roster is built for that. I don't really "work" on toons til I can reach high gear. Or have a team ready. I also seldom use a zeta unless 7 star g12 with few exceptions ie traya at 5 star. So a tb oriented/collector will get murdered.

    Also keep in mind they likely cannot get to complicated in matchmaking. Gp is usually a fair assumption. You will win some lose some. But could you imagine how complicated it would be to try to take into account all aspects of an account for even matching?
  • We have no idea whether there are additional factors in the matchmaking formula.....I seriously doubt it's solely based on GP. Also, everyone should expect the matchmaking formula to get tweaked over time.
  • It's all in a guilds focus there if you want max stars asap in tb it will hurt you in tw. Or vice versa. My guild does awesome in tw and can punch above our weight class. We're likely in the next tb or 2 finally gonna hit perfect. Its not **** its all choices. Find a like minded guild and go with it. Same goes for your own account. You need to choose your path and do what you want for your style.

    Also we only ever see "crap" matchups posted it seems. Nobody comes on so much to say my last 10 tw have been perfect. So I think overall it works. Sometimes bad matches will happen. But if a low % happens to get it then it's still a viable system. It's a mobile game that can't get to crazy I'm sure in coding
  • My Grand Arena matchup was great.

    However, since I am in a guild currently that didn’t work on “fluff” we win every TW and usually clear a board in 2-3 hours. It’s never even close. Sure the 3 zeta mats are nice but it’s pretty boring. Some players want a challenge, not just easy rewards while other players would like a decent chance to earn those rewards.

    I am not speaking for myself per say when I say having “fluff” count against a player/guild is a bad thing. My roster is up to par when it comes to the top characters/ships in the game. I can compete with pretty much anyone, except for the games top Krakens I am guessing.

    The fact remains.....

    Paper zombie
  • Kaziglubey wrote: »
    Also we only ever see "crap" matchups posted it seems. Nobody comes on so much to say my last 10 tw have been perfect. So I think overall it works. Sometimes bad matches will happen. But if a low % happens to get it then it's still a viable system. It's a mobile game that can't get to crazy I'm sure in coding

    Yeah, I ended up with a pretty even match-up. Our GP is only 20 points apart, G12 characters are 13 to 11, and neither of us has Revan or Traya yet.
  • Kyno
    17433 posts Moderator
    Vicarious wrote: »
    I respect you Kyno and you may still remember me, but that’s some **** right there. Sorry to say.

    Players are being put at a disadvantage for leveling up characters, plain and simple. This has been an issue with TW matchmaking from day one. It’s now even a bigger problem for those who want to be competitive in Grand arena.

    I agree players should be selective when using their resources but shouldn’t be at a disadvantage because they have mods on all their chars and etc.

    TB a guild needs high GP to get the max stars. So we have one game mode where CG is saying Work on Everything, it will be beneficial and then we have two other game modes where CG is basically saying the opposite. Besides all that, Paper zombie. Does anything else really need to be said....

    Paper zombie

    so players who focused on different game modes being at a disadvantage to player who focused on being competitive in TW style of game play. I'm not sure how that is anything other than the way its supposed to be plain and simple.

    no this is different than TW matchmaking. that is an issue of itself but mostly based around matching vs multiple players.

    matching based on GP and other factors can work fine. and if they dont have teams or counter teams built for this style of game mode, thats their fault.
  • Gair wrote: »
    Factors that should have been included.

    - Average arena rank
    - Numerical number of G12s
    - Quality of mods (15/20+ speeds)

    I'd add "ownership of Revan" to that list. I don't currently have anything that can take a strong Revan team down, so if someone puts him on defense, I'm boned.

  • I think whichever way you do it youll get complaints. If someone worked really hard on their roster and was only putting resources into things, managing them carefully. He has put a lot of thought into his roster. why should he have to go up against someone who didnt put up as much effort, but simply had the game longer and so has much more resources (because that person will have similar gear 12, but lots more lower down).

    I do understand that people made decisions, only to be told of consequences after the fact can be frustrating though. but if my opponent deliberately ignored mods, why should he be paired with other who ignored mods? Mine arent godlike, but my opponent has a leia with 226 speed as his fastest toon. hes about 2.7 mil gp. So yes, id expect him to be paired poorly because they havent bothered to work on their roster
  • I think whichever way you do it youll get complaints. If someone worked really hard on their roster and was only putting resources into things, managing them carefully. He has put a lot of thought into his roster. why should he have to go up against someone who didnt put up as much effort, but simply had the game longer and so has much more resources (because that person will have similar gear 12, but lots more lower down).

    I do understand that people made decisions, only to be told of consequences after the fact can be frustrating though. but if my opponent deliberately ignored mods, why should he be paired with other who ignored mods? Mine arent godlike, but my opponent has a leia with 226 speed as his fastest toon. hes about 2.7 mil gp. So yes, id expect him to be paired poorly because they havent bothered to work on their roster

    This is the best argument for the existing system. The only thing is that I think the point of the matchmaking should actually be to create a pairing in which both sides actually have a chance, and provide a challenge for each other. Instead, the system as it seems to be working is going to create a permanent class of winners and losers, and occasionally, almost by accident, create a fair pairing.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Kyno
    17433 posts Moderator
    Obi1_son wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Place 2 Olympic level runners in a race, the can both have the best mile times and may even be close.

    One runs marathons and the other shorter races.

    They are equals athletically and in many respects, but one will have a clear advantage in a marathon.

    It's about how you build your roster and how you develop in the game. If you developed more competitively or not. That's the players choice.

    No one in their right mind would put these to differing runners in the same category.
    So your example proves the point you are arguing against.

    the category is olympic runners. just like the category for this matching is players of SWGOH.

    how each runner trains is how each player develops their roster.

    if you want to be good at TW/GA you need to be team and counter team focused. if you do this the rest takes care of itself.

    Ultra wrote: »
    Kyno even you should know this algorithm is horrible because Ships over-inflate GP by a milestone. Someone farming Hounds Tooth will end up facing someone who didn't focus hard on ships. Character GP is more important since that is where the win/loss of Grand Arena will be judging from the points distribution.

    Matchmaking should've accounted for multiple factors than just base overall GP

    EDIT: you have an olympic runner and a swimmer competing for a 100m race in this case. Just because you have two athletes that are 1st in their field competing doesn't mean its fair

    we dont know all the factors involved, we dont know if GP is anything considered, or if they use just character GP. so stating it is horrible is a little unfair.
  • Kyno
    17433 posts Moderator
    edited December 7
    Ultra wrote: »
    Crumb literally said that GP is the only factor they are using to matchmaking

    EDIT:
    3j10rnpp5i2f.png
    Spoilered for size

    Where? you added the link after i wrote this.

    I will ping him for clarification on that. because overall post on GA, sounds different than that.

    4p4n5p2zghtr.png
    This is what i have seen about matchmaking. it sounds like they are using the TW matching system. just tuned to 1 player.
  • Ultra
    1151 posts Member
    I've edited my post to include the picture that gives greater context (shows what crumb quoted and his response to it)
  • DarthMufasa4
    188 posts Member
    edited December 7
    Whilst it does say they are of similar GP. I fail to see where it states this is the only factor involved. You can still have that factor and then have a couple (or many more) of others on top of that, and Crumbs statement is still true

    Edit: it is implied though
  • scuba
    12079 posts Member
    edited December 7
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Crumb literally said that GP is the only factor they are using to matchmaking

    EDIT:
    3j10rnpp5i2f.png
    Spoilered for size

    Where? you added the link after i wrote this.

    I will ping him for clarification on that. because overall post on GA, sounds different than that.

    4p4n5p2zghtr.png
    This is what i have seen about matchmaking. it sounds like they are using the TW matching system. just tuned to 1 player.


    Umm... I think that "similar collection" part is broken.

    I have seen some of the rosters of my guild mates opponents

    total gp is very close

    one has revan and traya one does not
    you know 2 of the most important tw and thus ga charaters...

    from what I have seen this looks like a straight up gp paring.

    Yes it is a small sample size but looks like "similar collection" == similar GP
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Vicarious wrote: »
    I respect you Kyno and you may still remember me, but that’s some **** right there. Sorry to say.

    Players are being put at a disadvantage for leveling up characters, plain and simple. This has been an issue with TW matchmaking from day one. It’s now even a bigger problem for those who want to be competitive in Grand arena.

    I agree players should be selective when using their resources but shouldn’t be at a disadvantage because they have mods on all their chars and etc.

    TB a guild needs high GP to get the max stars. So we have one game mode where CG is saying Work on Everything, it will be beneficial and then we have two other game modes where CG is basically saying the opposite. Besides all that, Paper zombie. Does anything else really need to be said....

    Paper zombie

    so players who focused on different game modes being at a disadvantage to player who focused on being competitive in TW style of game play. I'm not sure how that is anything other than the way its supposed to be plain and simple.

    no this is different than TW matchmaking. that is an issue of itself but mostly based around matching vs multiple players.

    matching based on GP and other factors can work fine. and if they dont have teams or counter teams built for this style of game mode, thats their fault.

    If we knew this game mode was coming yes, otherwise how is it anyone's fault , thet didnt prepare for something they knew nothing about.
    There were no hints , no login toons that pointed to this. Introducing another game mode that punishes collectors in a collector game us just silly. Which is why i'll put one toon on defense and be done with it. Will not waste a second on a game mode that punishes me because of how i choose to play a game.
    And lastly zombie was changed because they didn't want ppl gaining an advantage for not powering up toons , well you just created a game mode , that will stop the powering up of all non meta toons , to keep gp low to face much easier opponents. Does not make much sense.
    And as far as i know total GP also includes ships even though none can be used. Which is another handicap to those who actually use and worked on a bunch of ships.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Obi1_son wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Place 2 Olympic level runners in a race, the can both have the best mile times and may even be close.

    One runs marathons and the other shorter races.

    They are equals athletically and in many respects, but one will have a clear advantage in a marathon.

    It's about how you build your roster and how you develop in the game. If you developed more competitively or not. That's the players choice.

    No one in their right mind would put these to differing runners in the same category.
    So your example proves the point you are arguing against.

    the category is olympic runners. just like the category for this matching is players of SWGOH.

    how each runner trains is how each player develops their roster.

    if you want to be good at TW/GA you need to be team and counter team focused. if you do this the rest takes care of itself.

    Ultra wrote: »
    Kyno even you should know this algorithm is horrible because Ships over-inflate GP by a milestone. Someone farming Hounds Tooth will end up facing someone who didn't focus hard on ships. Character GP is more important since that is where the win/loss of Grand Arena will be judging from the points distribution.

    Matchmaking should've accounted for multiple factors than just base overall GP

    EDIT: you have an olympic runner and a swimmer competing for a 100m race in this case. Just because you have two athletes that are 1st in their field competing doesn't mean its fair

    we dont know all the factors involved, we dont know if GP is anything considered, or if they use just character GP. so stating it is horrible is a little unfair.

    But you wouldnt force sprinters and marathoners to compete with each other, they have separate events, and never compete with each other, unlike this arena, so your analogy is not really accurate
  • SmilinStonee
    136 posts Member
    edited December 7
    I posted a comment in GA mega, and posted here (pending approval). My take on this is that that GP is bundled rather than matched on separate criterias of Ship GP and Toon GP. Also, ship GP is overly inflated in comparison to Toon GP. In a competiton thats based heavily on characters themselves while pairing based on GP, a hugely inflated ship gp(counts for roughly 1/2 of a players gp, yet only pertains to of 1/3 GA? and 1/5 of TW event) hurts the players invested in ship arena without rewarding them in PvP events. While players who are not invested in ship arena/ships, have no handicap of this sort in any PvP event.

    Basically scale ship GP better, or match on two separate GPs if GP is the matching factor. Its absurd to know that having ships becomes a handicap overall.
  • Vicarious
    153 posts Member
    edited December 7
    Darnesswon-

    Ships will be used in some of the later Grand Arena tournaments but I obviously agree 100% with everything else you said.

    Kyno-

    A long distance runner and a sprinter train differently because they are competing in two completely different events. They dont have to and won’t face each other.



  • My match up is similar GP but my roster had higher level legendary type characters. In the age of big data analysis, I would think a company that relies on data to be able to aggregate and assess a lot more than a few factors like GP. We can literally look as a site like SWGOH.gg and assess number of zetas, arena and fleet positions, number of characters at various gear levels, total number of toons...
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