GP Matchmaking & “Fluff”

Replies

  • ArthurDent wrote: »
    PS: I also spent a lot on crew members because I earn a lot more from fleet arena than regular arena, so that is working against me here too, although supposedly in the future there will be fleet territories in GA where I can use them.

    If Grand Arena is anything like TW, there will be less banners for fleet - but all of your ships and crew GP stil count against you. If fleet banners were 50% of grand arena banners, then at least that part would be fair.
  • Liath
    4942 posts Member
    This is why devs are loathe to say anything without it being vetted by 20 people. They know that even then every statement will be taken out of context and twisted around to mean whatever people want. And then everybody complains about the lack of communication.
  • Kyno
    22117 posts Moderator
    NicWester wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    It's about how you build your roster and how you develop in the game. If you developed more competitively or not. That's the players choice.

    The problem is that this statement doesn't jive with the developer approach to the game since the first Tournaments. For two years now events and new characters and so on and so forth have been designed with the intent of rewarding people who DON'T just focus on a handful of characters and develop them. They want us to work on jawas and ewoks and phoenix and bounty hunters and all the other teams that people look at and go, "Well they're not Arena-worthy, so I'm not going to bother."

    Ask around and you'll hear a bunch of people talk about how they have so many characters at level 1, no gear, nothing because they don't want to "waste resources" on them. That's keeping their GP artificially low. Moreover, they're already being incentivised to do this by getting to place high in Arena each payout.

    This doesn't even get into the problem of ships not being used in this iteration of Grand Arena. My matchup in the scrubbed Grand Arena event yesterday had 100k less GP than me, but if you took ship out of the equation I had a little over 400k less than him. That's a pretty significant power differential!

    I'm being punished as a player for having bothered to work on teams that people think are useless. I can't "sell" my Lobot or my jawas or my CUP or Ugnaught or any of the other characters I've got at 7*, g7 or g8 to lower my GP. Likewise, if I use them in Grand Arena to soften up my opponent, I'm sacrificing banners because now I'm not winning on the first attack any more. Do you see?

    The point I'm trying to make is that simply basing Grand Arena matchups off of flat Galactic Power devoid of any other contextual criteria is a bad way of doing things. Not only does it lead to gross mismatches regularly, but it runs counter to the stated design goal of events: Incentivise people to use and develop their whole roster instead of just the top parts.

    Unlike a lot of folks kvetching around here, I've read the announcements and I understand that they're going to be tuning the matchmaking system as we go along. They need to see it in action and they need feedback before they can make changes.

    Focused development doesnt mean limited (beyond the income and pace of the game), focus means upgrading toons that have a use to the maximum point of that use and then moving on to the next.

    BH have been needed for credit heists for a while before they were an sort of dominant force anywhere else. Bringing them up to gold before contracts would have been a "waste of resources" as they could get the job done at a much lower level.

    That doesnt mean that having a great BH team now is a waste, they deserve it and have many uses between ships ,TW,GA and events.

    Upgrading a team that has a use at that level is how you develop, doing upgrades to pump up numbers for TB, that dont need the gear to complete there useful act (beyond GP) is what will always hurt you.

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.
  • Liath wrote: »
    This is why devs are loathe to say anything without it being vetted by 20 people. They know that even then every statement will be taken out of context and twisted around to mean whatever people want. And then everybody complains about the lack of communication.

    The devs shouldn’t claim that X is a general principal of their game design when it self-evidently isn’t.

    We should all be better consumers and not pretend to believe it when the devs claim to be disclosing their true design principals, however.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Kyno wrote: »

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.

    I've always though the game was about having fun. It's obvious that a ton of people (who have played the way CG recommended and guided us to play since the beginning) aren't having fun.

  • Kyno
    22117 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.

    I've always though the game was about having fun. It's obvious that a ton of people (who have played the way CG recommended and guided us to play since the beginning) aren't having fun.

    I like resource management, it is fun for me. I play other similarly conceptual games.

    There is more to it than that obviously, but I think people have a hard time balancing fun and grind. If your not having fun, pretty sure you are doing it wrong.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.

    I've always though the game was about having fun. It's obvious that a ton of people (who have played the way CG recommended and guided us to play since the beginning) aren't having fun.

    I like resource management, it is fun for me. I play other similarly conceptual games.

    There is more to it than that obviously, but I think people have a hard time balancing fun and grind. If your not having fun, pretty sure you are doing it wrong.

    Oh please. Just explain how it’s more fun to face a lop-sided matchup than an interesting challenge in GA. We’re not having fun because the pairing system is creating un-fun matchups, not because of anything we did wrong.

    There is literally nothing any of us can do to make it more likely to draw a fun matchup in GA. Lean roster, fluff, roster? Doesn’t matter. It’s all RNG whether you’ll be paired with someone who makes it interesting.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.

    I've always though the game was about having fun. It's obvious that a ton of people (who have played the way CG recommended and guided us to play since the beginning) aren't having fun.

    I like resource management, it is fun for me. I play other similarly conceptual games.

    There is more to it than that obviously, but I think people have a hard time balancing fun and grind. If your not having fun, pretty sure you are doing it wrong.

    Oh please. Just explain how it’s more fun to face a lop-sided matchup than an interesting challenge in GA. We’re not having fun because the pairing system is creating un-fun matchups, not because of anything we did wrong.

    There is literally nothing any of us can do to make it more likely to draw a fun matchup in GA. Lean roster, fluff, roster? Doesn’t matter. It’s all RNG whether you’ll be paired with someone who makes it interesting.

    We have had all of one GA and even that was botched.... Why not wait before writing a whole game mode off before it even begins?

    Has your guild never pulled off a TW you thought you were going to lose?
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.

    I've always though the game was about having fun. It's obvious that a ton of people (who have played the way CG recommended and guided us to play since the beginning) aren't having fun.

    I like resource management, it is fun for me. I play other similarly conceptual games.

    There is more to it than that obviously, but I think people have a hard time balancing fun and grind. If your not having fun, pretty sure you are doing it wrong.

    Oh please. Just explain how it’s more fun to face a lop-sided matchup than an interesting challenge in GA. We’re not having fun because the pairing system is creating un-fun matchups, not because of anything we did wrong.

    There is literally nothing any of us can do to make it more likely to draw a fun matchup in GA. Lean roster, fluff, roster? Doesn’t matter. It’s all RNG whether you’ll be paired with someone who makes it interesting.

    We have had all of one GA and even that was botched.... Why not wait before writing a whole game mode off before it even begins?

    Has your guild never pulled off a TW you thought you were going to lose?

    My opponent and I both attacked when it became clear that we’d both get the winner’s rewards. I cleared 5/6 squads (somewhat better than I expected) and he cleared all of mine. The scoring was bugged, so I don’t know how close we were. I’ll admit that it FELT closer than I was expecting based on our rosters, but I can only really know after the scoring gets fixed.

    We’ve had close TWs and those are fun win or lose. Maybe 1 in 10 it’s actually close though. That’s precisely what I’m complaining about. I want more nail-biters.

    I’m not writing off the mode. I’m making a case for an Elo-based rating system that will improve the matchmaking and ensure that more of us are having a good time playing GA.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Obi1_son wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Place 2 Olympic level runners in a race, the can both have the best mile times and may even be close.

    One runs marathons and the other shorter races.

    They are equals athletically and in many respects, but one will have a clear advantage in a marathon.

    It's about how you build your roster and how you develop in the game. If you developed more competitively or not. That's the players choice.

    No one in their right mind would put these to differing runners in the same category.
    So your example proves the point you are arguing against.

    the category is olympic runners. just like the category for this matching is players of SWGOH.

    how each runner trains is how each player develops their roster.

    if you want to be good at TW/GA you need to be team and counter team focused. if you do this the rest takes care of itself.

    Ultra wrote: »
    Kyno even you should know this algorithm is horrible because Ships over-inflate GP by a milestone. Someone farming Hounds Tooth will end up facing someone who didn't focus hard on ships. Character GP is more important since that is where the win/loss of Grand Arena will be judging from the points distribution.

    Matchmaking should've accounted for multiple factors than just base overall GP

    EDIT: you have an olympic runner and a swimmer competing for a 100m race in this case. Just because you have two athletes that are 1st in their field competing doesn't mean its fair

    we dont know all the factors involved, we dont know if GP is anything considered, or if they use just character GP. so stating it is horrible is a little unfair.

    But you wouldnt force sprinters and marathoners to compete with each other, they have separate events, and never compete with each other, unlike this arena, so your analogy is not really accurate

    ^^^ This is so true
  • Not writing off the mode, but again pure GP for matchmaking is not good, even Kyno admits this. So please stop telling us our choices are bad, when its actually the matchmaking thats bad. Thats been my point from day one. Fix the matchmaking 80% of the complaints vanish.
  • The argument that “this game is a collectors game and you art Punishing people” is unfounded and basically whining. So your complaint is you didn’t know this mode was coming? Well none of us did!

    If they introduce vehicles to the game, are you going to complain that you didn’t gear up Zam or Farmboy Luke for their speeders?

    Everyone in this game at some point was adventageous at some point in this game. Team depth for TW, Pilots high gear before Fleet, those that already had Ewoks modded well, geared, and Zetaed before C3PO, etc.

    You are mad because some players may have jumped the gun and not assembled their roster properly.

    Didn’t the ones that G12/G11 their whole roster get an advantage in TB getting 45 and 48 stars over those that didn’t for their guild?

    Stop the madness.

    I think you need to read the arguments more closely if you want to understand what people are arguing. This is a PVP mode, so players with strong PVP rosters are going to do better than players who have broader rosters aimed at unlocking all the PVE content. That is at it should be. I don’t think anybody wants or expects anything different.

    The complaint isn’t that somebody with a lean roster is going to get better rewards than somebody with a fluffy roster and the same GP—it’s that this two players don’t provide an interesting matchup for each other and shouldn’t be paired with each other in the first place.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • AndySCovell
    680 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    The argument that “this game is a collectors game and you art Punishing people” is unfounded and basically whining. So your complaint is you didn’t know this mode was coming? Well none of us did!

    If they introduce vehicles to the game, are you going to complain that you didn’t gear up Zam or Farmboy Luke for their speeders?

    Everyone in this game at some point was adventageous at some point in this game. Team depth for TW, Pilots high gear before Fleet, those that already had Ewoks modded well, geared, and Zetaed before C3PO, etc.

    You are mad because some players may have jumped the gun and not assembled their roster properly.

    Didn’t the ones that G12/G11 their whole roster get an advantage in TB getting 45 and 48 stars over those that didn’t for their guild?

    Stop the madness.

    I think you need to read the arguments more closely if you want to understand what people are arguing. This is a PVP mode, so players with strong PVP rosters are going to do better than players who have broader rosters aimed at unlocking all the PVE content. That is at it should be. I don’t think anybody wants or expects anything different.

    The complaint isn’t that somebody with a lean roster is going to get better rewards than somebody with a fluffy roster and the same GP—it’s that this two players don’t provide an interesting matchup for each other and shouldn’t be paired with each other in the first place.

    So I had a matchup the other day. I had 4.8 million GP and the other guy did too. He has a little more G12 toons than I do. I had more Zetas than him. But at the end of the day I would have slaughtered him as I had like 300 more mods than him with 10+ speed.

    So it’s hard to figure a formula that represents Gear, mods, GP, and Zetas perfectly.

    Back to the point. Fluff rosters got an advantage with their guild when they could get better TB rewards than those that saved their gear or didn’t max their toons.

    Now that a new mode is out those that got trash toons like Jawas and/or Upnaught high gears lost out because while they were rewarded with better guild rewards they are hurt for trying to max out trash toons for GA.

    I’m sure this will work itself out over time. But I only gear and Zeta toons I either think will be:

    1. Useful in TW/GA now
    2. Helps with fleet for speeds
    3. May have a Ship introduced later (like Holdo or Han Solo)
    4. May have a new toon come out that will help the faction (example gear up FO for a release of Snoke in the future)

    Anything else will hurt ya

  • NicWester wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    It's about how you build your roster and how you develop in the game. If you developed more competitively or not. That's the players choice.

    The problem is that this statement doesn't jive with the developer approach to the game since the first Tournaments. For two years now events and new characters and so on and so forth have been designed with the intent of rewarding people who DON'T just focus on a handful of characters and develop them. They want us to work on jawas and ewoks and phoenix and bounty hunters and all the other teams that people look at and go, "Well they're not Arena-worthy, so I'm not going to bother."

    Ask around and you'll hear a bunch of people talk about how they have so many characters at level 1, no gear, nothing because they don't want to "waste resources" on them. That's keeping their GP artificially low. Moreover, they're already being incentivised to do this by getting to place high in Arena each payout.

    This doesn't even get into the problem of ships not being used in this iteration of Grand Arena. My matchup in the scrubbed Grand Arena event yesterday had 100k less GP than me, but if you took ship out of the equation I had a little over 400k less than him. That's a pretty significant power differential!

    I'm being punished as a player for having bothered to work on teams that people think are useless. I can't "sell" my Lobot or my jawas or my CUP or Ugnaught or any of the other characters I've got at 7*, g7 or g8 to lower my GP. Likewise, if I use them in Grand Arena to soften up my opponent, I'm sacrificing banners because now I'm not winning on the first attack any more. Do you see?

    The point I'm trying to make is that simply basing Grand Arena matchups off of flat Galactic Power devoid of any other contextual criteria is a bad way of doing things. Not only does it lead to gross mismatches regularly, but it runs counter to the stated design goal of events: Incentivise people to use and develop their whole roster instead of just the top parts.

    Unlike a lot of folks kvetching around here, I've read the announcements and I understand that they're going to be tuning the matchmaking system as we go along. They need to see it in action and they need feedback before they can make changes.

    But if u read their posts they did at some point hint that fleets will be part of it in due time. Hence your 400k gap would become an asset soon enough...
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Vicarious wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So why was paper zombie nerfed? If not leveling and powering your toons, is not in the spirit of the game, as was the excuse given for the paper zombie nerf.
    So doing what the devs said was the intent , to level and gear your toons, is a bad choice. Sorry not buying it.

    who said it isn't in the spirit of the game.

    GP is a measure of how much upgrading you have done throughout your SWGOH career, but if you want to be competitive in a game mode like TW and GA, than you need to focus that development. People who dont can do great in many game modes and will be able to react quickly when things change, but that doesn't mean they should face people who are hyper focused on this style of game play, just because they may not have the tools developed to best cope with this like others have.

    development is always good, but how you do it can mean you made "bad choices" towards certain game modes.

    this was a similar concept back in the day with GW, when you tried to focus too much and got swamped and couldn't progress.

    each game mode has its own little nuances and understanding that can help you be a better player. but expecting to be great at all of them is not something for mere mortals to achieve.

    at no point is anyone saying you shouldn't develop, but you should develop with a plan that doesn't involve blind numbers. TB spread people out, but taking that too far was never a good idea. there is always a balance to strike.

    CG said “it isn’t in the spirit of the game” to not level up characters. That quote was in my initial post.

    Sure...... Except they never said that......
    Not word for word but from what I understood, and OP is right here, CG's intended spirit of the game was that gearing / leveling your roster should be rewarded and encouraged (make deep rosters). The game spirit is that invest in your toons and reap the rewards. To invest in your toons you need to gear them up. To gear them up, you need to level them up. So leveling toons is part of that game spirit

    Its literally in the screenshot in the opening post that investing more deeply in a character should be rewarded and leveling up a toon is investing in that toon but Grand Arena encourages the opposite "only level toons you are absolutely going to use / need to be meta or else you will be outmatched"

    Instead of having a wide roster strength its concentrated group of toons

    No..... It had nothing to do with your roster or this type of game mode and what you keep putting in quotations is incorrect....

    What you are saying about investing in a single chsracter, however, is absolutely correct and more in line with what they actually said...

    There is a very big difference between encouraging players to take a character like zombie and level her to g10 plus and encouraging players to level all of their fluff toons to G8 and never use them.....

    wc58rjt8x81s.jpg

    Yes..... That is specifically in regards to the paper zombie nerf.... If you followed the whole chain of events etc, they specifically stated that no character should perform better if underinvested in.....

    “In general we don’t want players to be better served by underinvesting.”

    That is a general statement of principal, that they stated in order to justify the paper zombie nerf. They didn’t mean it, obviously, but the certainly said it.

    Bringing a horde of toons to lvl50 g8 with a set of 0speed health mods is underinvesting in a whole lot of toons.
  • The argument that “this game is a collectors game and you art Punishing people” is unfounded and basically whining. So your complaint is you didn’t know this mode was coming? Well none of us did!

    If they introduce vehicles to the game, are you going to complain that you didn’t gear up Zam or Farmboy Luke for their speeders?

    Everyone in this game at some point was adventageous at some point in this game. Team depth for TW, Pilots high gear before Fleet, those that already had Ewoks modded well, geared, and Zetaed before C3PO, etc.

    You are mad because some players may have jumped the gun and not assembled their roster properly.

    Didn’t the ones that G12/G11 their whole roster get an advantage in TB getting 45 and 48 stars over those that didn’t for their guild?

    Stop the madness.

    I think you need to read the arguments more closely if you want to understand what people are arguing. This is a PVP mode, so players with strong PVP rosters are going to do better than players who have broader rosters aimed at unlocking all the PVE content. That is at it should be. I don’t think anybody wants or expects anything different.

    The complaint isn’t that somebody with a lean roster is going to get better rewards than somebody with a fluffy roster and the same GP—it’s that this two players don’t provide an interesting matchup for each other and shouldn’t be paired with each other in the first place.

    So I had a matchup the other day. I had 4.8 million GP and the other guy did too. He has a little more G12 toons than I do. I had more Zetas than him. But at the end of the day I would have slaughtered him as I had like 300 more mods than him with 10+ speed.

    So it’s hard to figure a formula that represents Gear, mods, GP, and Zetas perfectly.

    Back to the point. Fluff rosters got an advantage with their guild when they could get better TB rewards than those that saved their gear or didn’t max their toons.

    Now that a new mode is out those that got trash toons like Jawas and/or Upnaught high gears lost out because while they were rewarded with better guild rewards they are hurt for trying to max out trash toons for GA.

    I’m sure this will work itself out over time. But I only gear and Zeta toons I either think will be:

    1. Useful in TW/GA now
    2. Helps with fleet for speeds
    3. May have a Ship introduced later (like Holdo or Han Solo)
    4. May have a new toon come out that will help the faction (example gear up FO for a release of Snoke in the future)

    Anything else will hurt ya

    Most of what you said I agree with. But you’re wrong about this:
    So it’s hard to figure a formula that represents Gear, mods, GP, and Zetas perfectly.

    It would be hard to come up with a formula that takes those inputs and spews out an output number representing the player’s likely competitiveness in GA. And even if you were able to, you’d have to start all over again when the new meta was unveiled.

    But that’s not what I am suggesting. I am suggesting an Elo rating system, exactly like the one used in competetive chess tournaments to match up players by skill level. You don’t try to come up with a formula that considers the strength of their opening repertoire, endgame prowess, and tactical vision—you just apply a simple formula whose inputs are (a) who you’ve beaten and (b) who you’ve lost to. That’s it. The mathematics are extremely well-understood. After a few runs of GA (because early ratings will fluctuate a lot before settling down) we’d all be playing against people who provide us with a good challenge, for rewards that are based on our actual performance.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Kyno
    22117 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.

    I've always though the game was about having fun. It's obvious that a ton of people (who have played the way CG recommended and guided us to play since the beginning) aren't having fun.

    I like resource management, it is fun for me. I play other similarly conceptual games.

    There is more to it than that obviously, but I think people have a hard time balancing fun and grind. If your not having fun, pretty sure you are doing it wrong.

    Oh please. Just explain how it’s more fun to face a lop-sided matchup than an interesting challenge in GA. We’re not having fun because the pairing system is creating un-fun matchups, not because of anything we did wrong.

    There is literally nothing any of us can do to make it more likely to draw a fun matchup in GA. Lean roster, fluff, roster? Doesn’t matter. It’s all RNG whether you’ll be paired with someone who makes it interesting.

    We also have not seen how the full system will be implemented.

    While the first round is random, each of the next 2 tiers will have our win/loss record accounted into the matching.

    The random group of 8 based on GP will then lead to levels of players based on their competitiveness which should also be reflected by their choices of development leading to better battles as each phase progresses.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.

    I've always though the game was about having fun. It's obvious that a ton of people (who have played the way CG recommended and guided us to play since the beginning) aren't having fun.

    I like resource management, it is fun for me. I play other similarly conceptual games.

    There is more to it than that obviously, but I think people have a hard time balancing fun and grind. If your not having fun, pretty sure you are doing it wrong.

    Oh please. Just explain how it’s more fun to face a lop-sided matchup than an interesting challenge in GA. We’re not having fun because the pairing system is creating un-fun matchups, not because of anything we did wrong.

    There is literally nothing any of us can do to make it more likely to draw a fun matchup in GA. Lean roster, fluff, roster? Doesn’t matter. It’s all RNG whether you’ll be paired with someone who makes it interesting.

    We also have not seen how the full system will be implemented.

    While the first round is random, each of the next 2 tiers will have our win/loss record accounted into the matching.

    The random group of 8 based on GP will then lead to levels of players based on their competitiveness which should also be reflected by their choices of development leading to better battles as each phase progresses.

    That’s fine as far as it goes, but when the next event starts, it’s back to random groupings again. Why not leverage the players’ records in future events to ensure that the matchmaking gets better continuously?
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Kyno
    22117 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.

    I've always though the game was about having fun. It's obvious that a ton of people (who have played the way CG recommended and guided us to play since the beginning) aren't having fun.

    I like resource management, it is fun for me. I play other similarly conceptual games.

    There is more to it than that obviously, but I think people have a hard time balancing fun and grind. If your not having fun, pretty sure you are doing it wrong.

    Oh please. Just explain how it’s more fun to face a lop-sided matchup than an interesting challenge in GA. We’re not having fun because the pairing system is creating un-fun matchups, not because of anything we did wrong.

    There is literally nothing any of us can do to make it more likely to draw a fun matchup in GA. Lean roster, fluff, roster? Doesn’t matter. It’s all RNG whether you’ll be paired with someone who makes it interesting.

    We also have not seen how the full system will be implemented.

    While the first round is random, each of the next 2 tiers will have our win/loss record accounted into the matching.

    The random group of 8 based on GP will then lead to levels of players based on their competitiveness which should also be reflected by their choices of development leading to better battles as each phase progresses.

    That’s fine as far as it goes, but when the next event starts, it’s back to random groupings again. Why not leverage the players’ records in future events to ensure that the matchmaking gets better continuously?

    We have conflicting statements about the grouping being solely based on GP, so there is hope.
  • No_Try
    4037 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.

    I've always though the game was about having fun. It's obvious that a ton of people (who have played the way CG recommended and guided us to play since the beginning) aren't having fun.

    I like resource management, it is fun for me. I play other similarly conceptual games.

    There is more to it than that obviously, but I think people have a hard time balancing fun and grind. If your not having fun, pretty sure you are doing it wrong.

    Oh please. Just explain how it’s more fun to face a lop-sided matchup than an interesting challenge in GA. We’re not having fun because the pairing system is creating un-fun matchups, not because of anything we did wrong.

    There is literally nothing any of us can do to make it more likely to draw a fun matchup in GA. Lean roster, fluff, roster? Doesn’t matter. It’s all RNG whether you’ll be paired with someone who makes it interesting.

    We also have not seen how the full system will be implemented.

    While the first round is random, each of the next 2 tiers will have our win/loss record accounted into the matching.

    The random group of 8 based on GP will then lead to levels of players based on their competitiveness which should also be reflected by their choices of development leading to better battles as each phase progresses.

    That’s fine as far as it goes, but when the next event starts, it’s back to random groupings again. Why not leverage the players’ records in future events to ensure that the matchmaking gets better continuously?

    We have conflicting statements about the grouping being solely based on GP, so there is hope.

    Is there any other statement than this?
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »

    Your group of 8 will be based on GP and then who you face (after the first round) is determined by your win/loss record within that group. For example, everyone in your group has around 1mil GP but you lose your first round, you will then mostly go up against other players who lost their first round.
  • JVU420
    426 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Montanz wrote: »
    G11 + higher speed + game knowledge will definitely beat g12 with no mods

    Who is running gear 12 toons with no mods? Nobody
    Post edited by JVU420 on
  • Kyno
    22117 posts Moderator
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.

    I've always though the game was about having fun. It's obvious that a ton of people (who have played the way CG recommended and guided us t9o play since the beginning) aren't having fun.

    I like resource management, it is fun for me. I play other similarly conceptual games.

    There is more to it than that obviously, but I think people have a hard time balancing fun and grind. If your not having fun, pretty sure you are doing it wrong.

    Oh please. Just explain how it’s more fun to face a lop-sided matchup than an interesting challenge in GA. We’re not having fun because the pairing system is creating un-fun matchups, not because of anything we did wrong.

    There is literally nothing any of us can do to make it more likely to draw a fun matchup in GA. Lean roster, fluff, roster? Doesn’t matter. It’s all RNG whether you’ll be paired with someone who makes it interesting.

    We also have not seen how the full system will be implemented.

    While the first round is random, each of the next 2 tiers will have our win/loss record accounted into the matching.

    The random group of 8 based on GP will then lead to levels of players based on their competitiveness which should also be reflected by their choices of development leading to better battles as each phase progresses.

    That’s fine as far as it goes, but when the next event starts, it’s back to random groupings again. Why not leverage the players’ records in future events to ensure that the matchmaking gets better continuously?

    We have conflicting statements about the grouping being solely based on GP, so there is hope.

    Is there any other statement than this?
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »

    Your group of 8 will be based on GP and then who you face (after the first round) is determined by your win/loss record within that group. For example, everyone in your group has around 1mil GP but you lose your first round, you will then mostly go up against other players who lost their first round.

    Yes the title update has different wording that doesnt state it as directly based on GP.
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/189068/title-update-14-12-4-2018#latest


    i016aj00fth8.jpg


    That sounds like they are using something like the TW matching they have described before.
  • No_Try
    4037 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.

    I've always though the game was about having fun. It's obvious that a ton of people (who have played the way CG recommended and guided us t9o play since the beginning) aren't having fun.

    I like resource management, it is fun for me. I play other similarly conceptual games.

    There is more to it than that obviously, but I think people have a hard time balancing fun and grind. If your not having fun, pretty sure you are doing it wrong.

    Oh please. Just explain how it’s more fun to face a lop-sided matchup than an interesting challenge in GA. We’re not having fun because the pairing system is creating un-fun matchups, not because of anything we did wrong.

    There is literally nothing any of us can do to make it more likely to draw a fun matchup in GA. Lean roster, fluff, roster? Doesn’t matter. It’s all RNG whether you’ll be paired with someone who makes it interesting.

    We also have not seen how the full system will be implemented.

    While the first round is random, each of the next 2 tiers will have our win/loss record accounted into the matching.

    The random group of 8 based on GP will then lead to levels of players based on their competitiveness which should also be reflected by their choices of development leading to better battles as each phase progresses.

    That’s fine as far as it goes, but when the next event starts, it’s back to random groupings again. Why not leverage the players’ records in future events to ensure that the matchmaking gets better continuously?

    We have conflicting statements about the grouping being solely based on GP, so there is hope.

    Is there any other statement than this?
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »

    Your group of 8 will be based on GP and then who you face (after the first round) is determined by your win/loss record within that group. For example, everyone in your group has around 1mil GP but you lose your first round, you will then mostly go up against other players who lost their first round.

    Yes the title update has different wording that doesnt state it as directly based on GP.
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/189068/title-update-14-12-4-2018#latest


    i016aj00fth8.jpg


    That sounds like they are using something like the TW matching they have described before.

    Title update has also this:

    "We are excited to announce Title Update 14 is here! Can you prove you are the best in the Grand Arena? Unlike Squad and Fleet Arena, you will now be able to fight anyone in the game in an 8-player struggle to earn some awesome prizes! Here you can compete against players of a similar Galactic power from around the world . We’re kicking off Season 0 with a special Exhibition event that starts soon, so make sure to get the latest update and get ready to play!"

    + My question was asking for clarification which was either/or. If there was anything to clarify, I think he would.

    unifeke7rmd9.png
  • Kyno
    22117 posts Moderator
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    This game is about resource management and getting the best bang for the buck, that is not just dealing with your income but the value of what you are investing in.

    I've always though the game was about having fun. It's obvious that a ton of people (who have played the way CG recommended and guided us t9o play since the beginning) aren't having fun.

    I like resource management, it is fun for me. I play other similarly conceptual games.

    There is more to it than that obviously, but I think people have a hard time balancing fun and grind. If your not having fun, pretty sure you are doing it wrong.

    Oh please. Just explain how it’s more fun to face a lop-sided matchup than an interesting challenge in GA. We’re not having fun because the pairing system is creating un-fun matchups, not because of anything we did wrong.

    There is literally nothing any of us can do to make it more likely to draw a fun matchup in GA. Lean roster, fluff, roster? Doesn’t matter. It’s all RNG whether you’ll be paired with someone who makes it interesting.

    We also have not seen how the full system will be implemented.

    While the first round is random, each of the next 2 tiers will have our win/loss record accounted into the matching.

    The random group of 8 based on GP will then lead to levels of players based on their competitiveness which should also be reflected by their choices of development leading to better battles as each phase progresses.

    That’s fine as far as it goes, but when the next event starts, it’s back to random groupings again. Why not leverage the players’ records in future events to ensure that the matchmaking gets better continuously?

    We have conflicting statements about the grouping being solely based on GP, so there is hope.

    Is there any other statement than this?
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »

    Your group of 8 will be based on GP and then who you face (after the first round) is determined by your win/loss record within that group. For example, everyone in your group has around 1mil GP but you lose your first round, you will then mostly go up against other players who lost their first round.

    Yes the title update has different wording that doesnt state it as directly based on GP.
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/189068/title-update-14-12-4-2018#latest


    i016aj00fth8.jpg


    That sounds like they are using something like the TW matching they have described before.

    Title update has also this:

    "We are excited to announce Title Update 14 is here! Can you prove you are the best in the Grand Arena? Unlike Squad and Fleet Arena, you will now be able to fight anyone in the game in an 8-player struggle to earn some awesome prizes! Here you can compete against players of a similar Galactic power from around the world . We’re kicking off Season 0 with a special Exhibition event that starts soon, so make sure to get the latest update and get ready to play!"

    + My question was asking for clarification which was either/or. If there was anything to clarify, I think he would.

    unifeke7rmd9.png

    I agree, but he is only the voice and sometimes doesnt have all the information. Not to say he is wrong.
  • Why don’t we all just try to have patience while the “beta” rolls out. I can totally understand the frustration but this is a totally new game mode that has yet been given the time to iron out kinks and poor match making problems. We haven’t even seen the true form of this game mode or how the win/loss ratio plays out. Let’s give it a month and see where we are at afterwards.
    I for one am happy to see more ways to enjoy this game that iv been playing for nearly 3 years.
  • The problem with big mismatches is it makes the other player not want to set a defense or set very low toons. In turn the opposing player is punished by not being able to run quests. I just don't feel GP should be the only factor.
  • Well something is clearly broken.

    Me
    1kzpuz4x14h9.jpeg

    Him
    8g6d3kt5cm0v.jpeg

    It’s so bad I messaged him in game and offered to put 3 junk teams on defense just so he could complete the quest at least. I can put traya and revan as my other two and then just clear his side and win.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    TWings wrote: »
    There are really a lot of people missing the point here.
    Sure there are diferents people with diferent games styles alright, and those people make their choices, but bascially the message sent by GA's matching only by pure GP is :
    Don't unlock toons you don't use, don't star up toons you don't use, because if you do so, even if they stay at gear 1 level 1, you'll get penalized as eventually they'll be compared to g12 toons in GA.

    So it really has nothing to do with playstyle or strategy, unless you mean actually not unlocking/staring up toons for who you do have the shards already (and I could pretty much include zetas and gear in this but let's keep it simple) is a strategy. So, what I should have really done is keep all those toons ready to be unlocked but not push the "activate" button alright ? Short version, players should hold off everything to make sure their GP is not "artifically" buffed up by useless stuff.

    I don't know, but I really doubt that's the message EA/CG want to send. That would basically tell everyone to slow down on spending and such (pretty much like the paper zombi case).

    What?

    I think you are missing the point.

    Each level you increase, adds to GP
    Each ability you add, adds to GP
    Each gear you add, adds to GP
    Each mod you place, adds to GP

    Adding those are all player choices. If you developed with no focus or goal of having a use for a toon and just want pure GP because you are TB focused, those choices will hurt you in competitive mode like TW or now GA.

    This doesnt mean you shouldnt develop but as always you should have focus and manage your resources to make sure you are getting the best bang for your buck.

    Activating a toon does add a small amount but that's not what is hurting people when getting matched against a focused roster. The old mindset of TB, where you bring toons up to lvl 50, place mods, ability to 6 and gear up using the stuff you have a bunch of. << not balancing this or following this too long is what has been hurting people in TW and now GA.

    Focusing at a certain point on good defensive teams and counters to some of the good teams, helps you develop a lean and effective roster. This focus is not only specific teams, just a focus on teams that can be used.

    Unlocking CUP does not get him compared to CLS, but we need an arbitrary point system to rate development so that the devs are not hand holding matches and judging toons for us. That's the players choice who they think they can make win a match.

    I'm inviting you to read my first post again... My point is GP is flawed and a bad basis to compare two rosters for matchmaking.
    In my case, I have dozens of gear 1 lvl 1 toons, and as I stated previously already in raw GP 4 toons 7 stars ungeared and unleveld = 1 gear 12 toon. That causes me to be matched with players with twice the amount of G12 but half the amount of toons unlocked.
    Now if you think that's perfectly fine that way, that's your opinion, but I strongly disagree. 4 toons lvl 1 (no matter how many stars they have) will never in a million year be anywhere close to be match for even 1 single g12 toon.

    That beeing said, I'm tired of those steriles arguments. I've said what I had to say (more than once), if I don't see an improvement, I'll most likely stop SWGOH. There's really no point of playing if you take the fun out of a game. It's no big deal. I took some of my time to post my feedback on this forum (for the first time in 3 years) because I do actually care. I'll just move on if I have to. There are already a lot of good alternative options out there (Star Wars games and others) that are fun to play and have actual working matchmaking (figures) !
  • I hate this new event already. How is this a thing, we're not even in the same league. Plus, I don't have Revan, and can very rarely beat him, so I lose... super fun event though...qoalp3do67pk.jpg
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