GP Matchmaking & “Fluff”

Replies

  • arbster wrote: »
    The other point that a lot of people seem to be missing is that none of the players who have padded their GP for TB purposes, or to satisfy their collector tendencies, is forced to continue to grow their roster in the same way. TW has been around for many months, which should have alerted some to the perils of indiscriminate upgrading of characters and ships. That said, I've seen some very selfish perspectives from some players around TW, with many happy to settle for 2nd place (loser) rewards and putting in minimum efforts. Those same players will find themselves struggling in GA. But they can fix it. If instead of fluffing the rest of their roster they focused all their gear and ability mats on a specific set of coherent teams they will build a formidable defensive and offensive roster for relatively little incremental GP. This will increase their strength and competitiveness.

    Many of the suggestions I see here will simply mask people's lack of understanding of the game - matching individuals based on their (lack of) ability to master the nuances will simply ensure the bad players stay bad, and don't realise how bad they are because they always play against other bad players. It's like school sports days all over again - no losers, everyone gets a medal, don't make anyone feel bad because they are fat/slow/lazy - but you also fail to reward those who try hard, stay fit and excel at something. If you do this in SWGoH too, what is the incentive for people to improve?

    Theres already rewards for being mediocre but the mediocre want more...
  • Finally this thread is swinging towards common sense.....

  • This isn't completely accurate. Back when Territory Bore was announced, many of us took all of our trash toons (of which there are many) and leveled them to 85, geared them to 8, and slapped on mods in order to help increase GP for the game mode and help out our guilds.

    Did this act impede our ability to construct a "competitive" roster? I'd argue no, not really. Credits at the top end of the game are plentiful, so the amount spent leveling trash to 85 was not preventing us from from leveling a useful toon to 85. Likewise, gear needed to get toons to level 8 is readily available as side junk from bronziums and more developed gear farms. And of course, we put our cruddy extra mods on these toons. Would we have 1-2 more g12 toons if we had not done these actions? Probably. Would we have 20? No way.

    Yet, what this selfless team oriented action did was artificially inflate our GP and penalize us in both TW and now GA due to poor matchmaking that looks more or less solely at GP.

    Also, keep in mind that TB came before either of these two new modes, so the actions we took that inflated GP occurred BEFORE we could have know about negative ramifications for doing so. In other words, while you maintain a choice for roster development was involved, I'm stating there was no choice whatsoever.

    What really needs to happen is matchmaking needs to be made based on numbers of toons at various gear levels as opposed to GP.

    I'm Sorry, But this argument is CRAP. Since wayyy before there was TB, TW, yadda yadda, We were told to improve your roster, you have to be selective about what you spend your resources on. So, there are some of us who only gear up toons or factions when we have the resources to do so.

    If you think about it, you actually gain MORE points for TW if you actually finish all rounds (especially during the 6th phase) than you would if you "artificially inflate" your GP by leveling up toons to 85 and gear VIII. So if you worked on factions to do well in TB, then you had a great base to start with once TW started. And now the same for GA.

    So yes, the best thing to do is farm toons to 7* but dont Gear or lvl them up until you are ready to take them up to gear XII. Otherwise, you get these whiny posts.

    I feel you are on a different level of the game than myself. I have 4.4m GP. I had the rosters from the get go to do well in TB. Was getting full clears almost immediately. I also leveled and geared roughly 50 trash toons to assist in deployments specifically because that helps the guild. Leveling and gearing those toons was not a choice that prevented me from being successful in the current game modes that were available at the time of TB release. TB was billed by EA as a mode where EVERY UPGRADE Counted. Therefore, at that time, there was no reason to be selective in leveling(85) and gearing(8) these toons. I had the resources and it did not prevent me from leveling more useful toons.

    That said, since that time, I or my guild am penalized in both TW and GA because of this action vs someone or some guild that has the same GP but did not do this.

  • BubbaFett wrote: »

    This isn't completely accurate. Back when Territory Bore was announced, many of us took all of our trash toons (of which there are many) and leveled them to 85, geared them to 8, and slapped on mods in order to help increase GP for the game mode and help out our guilds.

    Did this act impede our ability to construct a "competitive" roster? I'd argue no, not really. Credits at the top end of the game are plentiful, so the amount spent leveling trash to 85 was not preventing us from from leveling a useful toon to 85. Likewise, gear needed to get toons to level 8 is readily available as side junk from bronziums and more developed gear farms. And of course, we put our cruddy extra mods on these toons. Would we have 1-2 more g12 toons if we had not done these actions? Probably. Would we have 20? No way.

    Yet, what this selfless team oriented action did was artificially inflate our GP and penalize us in both TW and now GA due to poor matchmaking that looks more or less solely at GP.

    Also, keep in mind that TB came before either of these two new modes, so the actions we took that inflated GP occurred BEFORE we could have know about negative ramifications for doing so. In other words, while you maintain a choice for roster development was involved, I'm stating there was no choice whatsoever.

    What really needs to happen is matchmaking needs to be made based on numbers of toons at various gear levels as opposed to GP.

    I'm Sorry, But this argument is CRAP. Since wayyy before there was TB, TW, yadda yadda, We were told to improve your roster, you have to be selective about what you spend your resources on. So, there are some of us who only gear up toons or factions when we have the resources to do so.

    If you think about it, you actually gain MORE points for TW if you actually finish all rounds (especially during the 6th phase) than you would if you "artificially inflate" your GP by leveling up toons to 85 and gear VIII. So if you worked on factions to do well in TB, then you had a great base to start with once TW started. And now the same for GA.

    So yes, the best thing to do is farm toons to 7* but dont Gear or lvl them up until you are ready to take them up to gear XII. Otherwise, you get these whiny posts.

    This guy gets it......

    No. Neither you nor he do at all.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »

    This isn't completely accurate. Back when Territory Bore was announced, many of us took all of our trash toons (of which there are many) and leveled them to 85, geared them to 8, and slapped on mods in order to help increase GP for the game mode and help out our guilds.

    Did this act impede our ability to construct a "competitive" roster? I'd argue no, not really. Credits at the top end of the game are plentiful, so the amount spent leveling trash to 85 was not preventing us from from leveling a useful toon to 85. Likewise, gear needed to get toons to level 8 is readily available as side junk from bronziums and more developed gear farms. And of course, we put our cruddy extra mods on these toons. Would we have 1-2 more g12 toons if we had not done these actions? Probably. Would we have 20? No way.

    Yet, what this selfless team oriented action did was artificially inflate our GP and penalize us in both TW and now GA due to poor matchmaking that looks more or less solely at GP.

    Also, keep in mind that TB came before either of these two new modes, so the actions we took that inflated GP occurred BEFORE we could have know about negative ramifications for doing so. In other words, while you maintain a choice for roster development was involved, I'm stating there was no choice whatsoever.

    What really needs to happen is matchmaking needs to be made based on numbers of toons at various gear levels as opposed to GP.

    I'm Sorry, But this argument is CRAP. Since wayyy before there was TB, TW, yadda yadda, We were told to improve your roster, you have to be selective about what you spend your resources on. So, there are some of us who only gear up toons or factions when we have the resources to do so.

    If you think about it, you actually gain MORE points for TW if you actually finish all rounds (especially during the 6th phase) than you would if you "artificially inflate" your GP by leveling up toons to 85 and gear VIII. So if you worked on factions to do well in TB, then you had a great base to start with once TW started. And now the same for GA.

    So yes, the best thing to do is farm toons to 7* but dont Gear or lvl them up until you are ready to take them up to gear XII. Otherwise, you get these whiny posts.

    This guy gets it......

    No. Neither you nor he do at all.

    I take it you have a fluffy roster..
  • Liath wrote: »
    the pool of usable toons in PvP is restricted to premier toons that can compete at lower stars / gear and G12 toons.

    This might be true in your GP range but it’s definitely not true in mine for GA purposes. 12 teams is a lot. Both of my opponents placed defense teams with multiple g8 characters on them, and I used g8 characters to fight those teams.

    Exactly, which is why i’m putting so much importance on gp and where the players are at in the game !
    @Rebel_yell You are again repeating everything that was said before but i really think that unlike what you said about me, the problem is you don’t seem to understand that what you said (your « baselines ») may be true for you but they are clearly false for a lot, and i mean a lot, of players. None of those baselines are true for me.
    1st : i had to put 5 teams on defense and attack with at least 5, that’s 50 characters. I have 10 g12.
    2nd : i beat g12 with g11 all the time. What you dismissed as « unless direct counters » is actually the whole point of the game mode and fighting with full rosters instead of 1 team ! G11 nightsisters can’t loose when attacking full g12 jtr. G10-11 troopers will walk on nightsisters. Etc etc.

    I tried to give you an exemple, me, not because i like to talk about me but to show you how it goes for people with lower gp. My .gg : https://swgoh.gg/p/113669163
    As you can see, g12 for me doesn’t mean that much, because the difference of power between a g11 and a g12 is not as much as you make it sound. G12 doesn’t mean full g12+, zetad, full 6* mods. Those are extremely different things.
    I actually won my ga with my opponent crashing against my smugglers, a 58k gp team lead by g7 qi’ra.

    To be honest, at my level of play, revan and traya will 100% be the deciding factor. I won’t beat someone who has one of them regardless of the rest of the roster because power creep got into a whole other dimension with them. But those are accessible to me, the only reason i don’t have them is i chose to.

    Again i can’t identify the point in the game where both things are true : you can start pouring ressources into useless stuff without slowing down your main focus, and you can meet people who played way longer than you (that would be the only way for them to unfairly have access to much more ressources than you). It seems obvious to you that this point exists (to the point that you think to seem everyone is in the same boat, see your baselines), but i don’t see it. When did that become true for you ? When did you start the game, when did you start lvling useless toons because you had the credit ? What kind of players do you meet ? When did they start ? Those are useful, concrete information.

    Things such as « people who don’t activate and promote characters will have a favorable match up », although technically true, are most likely a negligible factor. The % of players who don’t activate and promote characters is very low, espcially long term players since as you say they have the credits to do so. It’s even less of a factor when you think that activating and promoting characters doesn’t do much for your gp before getting to 6-7 stars, and most characters introduced the past year and then some were marquees that you need to farm for a long time to get to that point. Again the number of people who would farm a marquee to 7* without activating it is most likely low. Plus tb platoons.
    All in all i think that the truth is player’s quality of play is by really far the most important factor in the current match making, and some people are trying to blow other, much less impactful factors way out of proportion to justify a change that would be beneficial for them. I won’t say that categorically though. Maybe i’m wrong and there is a group of player of significant size who are actually in an unfair situation. I just can’t see it.
  • JohnAran wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    the pool of usable toons in PvP is restricted to premier toons that can compete at lower stars / gear and G12 toons.

    This might be true in your GP range but it’s definitely not true in mine for GA purposes. 12 teams is a lot. Both of my opponents placed defense teams with multiple g8 characters on them, and I used g8 characters to fight those teams.

    Exactly, which is why i’m putting so much importance on gp and where the players are at in the game !
    @Rebel_yell You are again repeating everything that was said before but i really think that unlike what you said about me, the problem is you don’t seem to understand that what you said (your « baselines ») may be true for you but they are clearly false for a lot, and i mean a lot, of players. None of those baselines are true for me.
    1st : i had to put 5 teams on defense and attack with at least 5, that’s 50 characters. I have 10 g12.
    2nd : i beat g12 with g11 all the time. What you dismissed as « unless direct counters » is actually the whole point of the game mode and fighting with full rosters instead of 1 team ! G11 nightsisters can’t loose when attacking full g12 jtr. G10-11 troopers will walk on nightsisters. Etc etc.

    I tried to give you an exemple, me, not because i like to talk about me but to show you how it goes for people with lower gp. My .gg : https://swgoh.gg/p/113669163
    As you can see, g12 for me doesn’t mean that much, because the difference of power between a g11 and a g12 is not as much as you make it sound. G12 doesn’t mean full g12+, zetad, full 6* mods. Those are extremely different things.
    I actually won my ga with my opponent crashing against my smugglers, a 58k gp team lead by g7 qi’ra.

    To be honest, at my level of play, revan and traya will 100% be the deciding factor. I won’t beat someone who has one of them regardless of the rest of the roster because power creep got into a whole other dimension with them. But those are accessible to me, the only reason i don’t have them is i chose to.

    Again i can’t identify the point in the game where both things are true : you can start pouring ressources into useless stuff without slowing down your main focus, and you can meet people who played way longer than you (that would be the only way for them to unfairly have access to much more ressources than you). It seems obvious to you that this point exists (to the point that you think to seem everyone is in the same boat, see your baselines), but i don’t see it. When did that become true for you ? When did you start the game, when did you start lvling useless toons because you had the credit ? What kind of players do you meet ? When did they start ? Those are useful, concrete information.

    Things such as « people who don’t activate and promote characters will have a favorable match up », although technically true, are most likely a negligible factor. The % of players who don’t activate and promote characters is very low, espcially long term players since as you say they have the credits to do so. It’s even less of a factor when you think that activating and promoting characters doesn’t do much for your gp before getting to 6-7 stars, and most characters introduced the past year and then some were marquees that you need to farm for a long time to get to that point. Again the number of people who would farm a marquee to 7* without activating it is most likely low. Plus tb platoons.
    All in all i think that the truth is player’s quality of play is by really far the most important factor in the current match making, and some people are trying to blow other, much less impactful factors way out of proportion to justify a change that would be beneficial for them. I won’t say that categorically though. Maybe i’m wrong and there is a group of player of significant size who are actually in an unfair situation. I just can’t see it.

    I can't comment on your tactics because I can't see your opponent, but you won, and you did so resourcefully, so sincere congratulations on that.

    I may be missing where I'm not answering your question regarding why we should change the matchmaking calculation, but my summary is this: When you have a game mode that does not foster competitive play, fewer people play. At the surface level, that would seem beneficiary to us, but it's not. There are a finite number of whales that will ever play this game so it needs to build a large base of small spenders. If you lose that base, you lose the game. I like the game. I want it to be fair to those die hards like us and the non-forum participants that play casually.

    To your question about when did I hit a point where credits were more disposable? I'd say right around 3.5 GP, maybe earlier. Once our guild had HSTR on farm I wasn't pushing as hard for mods and gearing certain toons (I had to grind hard for Nightsisters). But at about 3.5 GP you're at a point where the grind to advance past your next gear wall takes so long that you kinda just get bored and start messing around with the roster. Adding mods, leveling up CUP, tossing gear on 3* toons. I like making incremental progress.

    If you want to see some of my goofiness: https://swgoh.gg/p/959311831/
  • Rebel_yell wrote: »
    Rebel_yell wrote: »
    T
    Rebel_yell wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Rebel_yell wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Rebel_yell wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Rebel_yell wrote: »

    This isn't completely accurate. Back when Territory Bore was announced, many of us took all of our trash toons (of which there are many) and leveled them to 85, geared them to 8, and slapped on mods in order to help increase GP for the game mode and help out our guilds.

    Did this act impede our ability to construct a "competitive" roster? I'd argue no, not really. Credits at the top end of the game are plentiful, so the amount spent leveling trash to 85 was not preventing us from from leveling a useful toon to 85. Likewise, gear needed to get toons to level 8 is readily available as side junk from bronziums and more developed gear farms. And of course, we put our cruddy extra mods on these toons. Would we have 1-2 more g12 toons if we had not done these actions? Probably. Would we have 20? No way.

    Yet, what this selfless team oriented action did was artificially inflate our GP and penalize us in both TW and now GA due to poor matchmaking that looks more or less solely at GP.

    Also, keep in mind that TB came before either of these two new modes, so the actions we took that inflated GP occurred BEFORE we could have know about negative ramifications for doing so. In other words, while you maintain a choice for roster development was involved, I'm stating there was no choice whatsoever.

    What really needs to happen is matchmaking needs to be made based on numbers of toons at various gear levels as opposed to GP.

    I'm Sorry, But this argument is CRAP. Since wayyy before there was TB, TW, yadda yadda, We were told to improve your roster, you have to be selective about what you spend your resources on. So, there are some of us who only gear up toons or factions when we have the resources to do so.

    If you think about it, you actually gain MORE points for TW if you actually finish all rounds (especially during the 6th phase) than you would if you "artificially inflate" your GP by leveling up toons to 85 and gear VIII. So if you worked on factions to do well in TB, then you had a great base to start with once TW started. And now the same for GA.

    So yes, the best thing to do is farm toons to 7* but dont Gear or lvl them up until you are ready to take them up to gear XII. Otherwise, you get these whiny posts.

    So in other words, don't actually play the game until you can absolutely max out a single toon?

    Here's the thing about your comment on "managing resources", the resources needed to level, star, mod, and minimally gear up toons do not need to be "managed" because they're in abundance for long-term players.

    Which brings us to the challenge of Grand Arena matchmaking based on GP, long-term players brought a lot of toons to G8, G9, or even G11 for a variety of reasons. Mod Challenges, events, generally fluffing, but the main reason for G11 is that it was the max gear level for toons. Then, with the release of G12 and new toons, you have a roster filled with toons that aren't relevant to PvP, but are decently geared simply because you've played for a long-time. Your GP is high, but your Grand Arena viability is low relative to a comparable GP, new whale. Basically this game design alienates long-term players relative to brand new whales.

    And this isn't a free game. People have invested time, money, or both into this game with the expectation that you wouldn't be penalized for allocating resources.

    I'm not saying I'm entitled to win because I've played for a long time. I simply want to walk into a game mode where the outcome isn't guaranteed one way or the other. I don't have fun annihilating my opponent and I don't have fun being annihilated. So I have provided constructive feedback on ways to improve matchmaking.

    Absolutely false..... Have you farmed the useless vets for rjt yet?..... I guarantee you will be woefully short of 20 a piece purple gear to get g8.... Especially if you are building up your fluff garbage toons.....

    Folks wanking about "helping their guild" with their crappy inflated lineups should take a step back.....

    How well do you do in tb combat missions?

    How much do you contribute to raids?

    Is your inflated gp hurting your guild in TW?

    Dude. I’ve already provided you my roster for review. Start participating like an adult or go away.

    Here it is. Again. Don’t lose it. https://swgoh.gg/p/959311831/

    I'm not going to keep your roster on speed dial, but thanks... I was simply pointing out that not all of the gear to get to G8 is worthless or "in abundance" as you said..... Do try and keep up....

    Trolls gonna troll.

    Bottom line. Your argument has been disproved over and over and over again. Gear required to get from G7 -> G8 does not overlap with the gear needed to get from G11 -> G12. And in the rare instances that it does, guess what, I leave a toon at G7. The gear crunch at G11 -> G12 are stun guns/cuffs, bacta gel, callers, implants, and other yellow gear. Not sure what toons you're gearing with this stuff to move from G7 to G8. Guess you just have magic toons no one else has seen.

    be blessed.

    Lol.... Nobody is trolling here.. Does the gear ever overlap or not? Can you really tell me you have tons of extra purple holo lenses, lower level droid callers etc? You literally get your toons from g7 to g8 without farming anything?

    No need to be salty dude.... It's just a game....

    I literally did exactly that. If I don't have a fat stock of something, I don't use it without a purpose. This gave me 41 g8s and rest of everything g7. I did zero amount of extra farming/resource reallocation while creating the fluff.

    There is something i don’t understand. I keep seeing people say things like « i’m a day 1 veteran player who upgraded useless toons without diverting any kind of ressources from my main teams ». Some other people say it’s not really possible but they insist, they’ve been playing for so long and have so many ressources they can do it. Supposedly the matchmaking punishes those veteran players (some said, who also spent money) by matching them with stronger players with leaner rosters.

    My question is : how is this possible ? Who are those « stronger players » ? How can they have zero fluff but the same gp as you then ?
    The only ways those players exist, since they’ve not been playing months or years longer obviously, are
    - They paid for a competitive advantage (you want to take it from them?)
    - They’ve been much more active and efficient than you all along (don’t they deserve their edge then ?)

    Same argument can be made for toons who were « mandatory » at a time but not anymore (teebo, jawas, stuff). If that’s true, almost every long term player will have them, they make no difference in the match making.
    I have a hard time understanding how all those things said in this thread can be true at the same time.

    Not sure anyone here has said they're a day 1 veteran player, but I'll ignore the hyperbole because you bring up good questions. I'll try to explain as best I can.

    Let's look first at how GP is calculated: For each activated toon it measures, Stars, Level, GearTier, Abilities, and Mods.

    By themselves, Stars and Level have zero bearing on the toons performance, it simply unlocks the gear levels and abilities you can equip. Even 6* mods are gated behind G12, which itself is gated behind 7*. Credits are used to star and level characters, and long-term players have these in abundance. So, up until GA there was absolutely no resource management considerations that prevented you from starring and leveling those toons. In fact, it there was an incentive to do so because you could deploy more GP in TB. GREAT!

    Now comes an unannounced game mode (relative to the time they have been playing) that actually penalizes a player for having greater breadth in 7*, level 85 toons. Again, you may be asking "why make them level 85 if you don't plan to gear them?" and it's because there is no resource management consideration. I personally have 20 million in credits. There's no reason not to... until now.

    With GA matchmaking on GP, it's in the players best interest to not make incremental progress at all, but to simply research all the gear that is needed for a specific toon, farm its shards and then gear them and star them as rapidly as possible so as not to negatively impact competitiveness in GA. That doesn't seem in the spirit of a game that was designed for incremental progress and most definitely hurts those that aren't researching the game constantly on the forums or reddit.

    Now let's talk about 1 more key change to the game that impacts players, G12. In the past, G10 and G11 didn't have a huge performance gap. You were better off going to G11, but you might be able to pick off a couple of toons with a G10 squad. G12 changed this. If you are facing G12 toons with G11 toons, you're smoked. You're not knocking down any of their toons. There's no attrition any more. So when a matchmaking pairs off a player with 60 G12 toons against someone that has 30, even though they have similar GP they are grossly mismatched. That's not a competitive advantage... that's not even a competition.

    To your point about efficiency, this is false. There is very little overlap in gear to bring someone up to G7 or G8 versus G11 -> G12 gear. Once you are trying to move from G11 to G12, it's a completely different type of grind. Yes you need carbs and guns, but you also need a bunch of stuff that is unique to G11. Yellow gear and IV bacta gel, and VI callers and a bunch of stuff that doesn't come into the equation at lower gears. So why would you design a format that tells players to not put on any gear other toons that you can't immediately bring to G12? it defeats the whole concept of incremental progress and grinding.

    So the ask is, make matchmaking more equitable taking into account the tremendous performance gap between G12 and G11. My suggestion is to simply take out level, stars, and mods from the matchmaking equation, leaving just gear and abilities.

    Now you may be asking, "well, where's the advantage to the whale?" And it's in mods. A player that is spending on gear is farming the slicing components needed to bring mods to 6*. That still gives them a pretty large competitive advantage over lower and non-spenders.

    TL:DR - refining the matching GP to only account for weighted average gear level and abilities still provides an advantage to big spenders. So does removing mods from the equation. The goal isn't to make someone who pays a lot and someone who pays a little to have 1:1 competitive ratio. It's simply to bring the ratio to a level where players feel they can have fun playing. Go back and look at the first picture posted. 60 G12 v 21 G12. That's a nearly 300% difference in toons that are actually viable. That's not fun gameplay.

    I’m a dec’15 shard player and i spend my credits on mods, not aimlessly leveling my toons to 85. My lvl85 toons generally have uses be it ships, tb, arena, etc. Those that don’t have uses (e.g. CUP and mob enforcer) are completely sidelined. Food for thought yea?

    The CUP bonus in TW was dope. But again, duped into doing something that hurt my GA matchmaking. Ah well, the one shot kills on Jango were fun. Had excess gear laying around. Had a little fun. Food for thought, yeah?

    One-shot kill means u used mace. Mace is a fleet comm and with only 4 fleet comms around, he will always be useful in TW. Further, fleet is now part of GA, and we dont yet know if at higher GPs will there be a requirement for 2 fleets on defense (i.e. Mace is a necessity). Hence, your argument is invalid.

    Burning gear on a toon (CUP) that was going to be irrelevant in a matter of weeks is just bad decision making. In fact he became irrelevant in what, 2 weeks? Anyone with some amount of foresight and restraint wouldnt spam gear onto CUP just for on TW mode, and i'm not dumb enough to be duped into it. U had your fun, but now u cry foul?

    You can find my roster on this thread. I have everything I need for raids and TB. Playing these short-term boosters are fun to me. Has nothing to do with “foresight”. CG made a component that’s fun and I played. Isn’t that what the games designed for?

    Also, I don’t get all this hostility. I’ve already explained that I had gear to spare to get him, mace, and dooku to a gear tier that didn’t overlap on my progress getting my focus toons from G11 - G12.

    The whole point I’ve made over and over again is there is a better way to draw up matchups that doesn’t give an oversized advantage to PVP focused players. I’ve repeatedly stated how my method still gives them an advantage and how it’s warranted. Bye now.

    It was a fun component and u played, and then u complain that u put resources into that. I see your roster, i guess your complaint is more or less "why am i matched against revans?" is it not?

    The game mode is PVP. Obviously pvp focused players are gonna get an advantage. Further, we've only just seen the exhibition matches and we don't know for sure how it's gonna play out. But my guess is this - if you are in the 3.9m bracket, u are gonna meet players with revans and trayas, revans only, trayas only, and g12 cups since there will be 8 players in total. It's a ridiculous nightmare if the GA matchup has 8 players with the exact same highly pvp focused squads - imagine all 8 being mere single digit points apart from each other, they will surely revolt.

    Anyway, chances are a roster like yours will be likely in the 2-4 prize bracket already, so i don't see what's unfair about it.

    I'm not complaining about facing premier toons or specific toons at all. In fact, that's part of the resource management component of the game. In this case, it's personal resources (money). Someone buying that toon should have an advantage over someone who didn't (me). No complaints. Plus, GA is a great way to level the playing field of NOT having those premier toons (compared to squad arena because) there are 6 teams (maybe more with ships) you are battling, and maybe you just can't beat Revan, but you still have 5 teams you can compete against. I think that's great!

    I know it sounds weird, but I'm not advocating for changing the matchmaking to benefit me specifically. As you can see, I'll mostly be fine. Maybe not finish 1st, but I can compete. I'm pointing out that the new GP model was created to better measure squad arena matchups. As other's have mentioned in threads not related to GA, it's useless for measuring fleet arena matchups. My contention is that it's also useless for matchmaking in GA.

    I'm thinking of others because I think it's better for the game to have a healthy and large player base. Casual players, while always at a disadvantage, shouldn't be made into punching bags as the first image shows in a 3:1 ratio of G12 toons.
  • arbster wrote: »
    The other point that a lot of people seem to be missing is that none of the players who have padded their GP for TB purposes, or to satisfy their collector tendencies, is forced to continue to grow their roster in the same way. TW has been around for many months, which should have alerted some to the perils of indiscriminate upgrading of characters and ships. That said, I've seen some very selfish perspectives from some players around TW, with many happy to settle for 2nd place (loser) rewards and putting in minimum efforts. Those same players will find themselves struggling in GA. But they can fix it. If instead of fluffing the rest of their roster they focused all their gear and ability mats on a specific set of coherent teams they will build a formidable defensive and offensive roster for relatively little incremental GP. This will increase their strength and competitiveness.

    Many of the suggestions I see here will simply mask people's lack of understanding of the game - matching individuals based on their (lack of) ability to master the nuances will simply ensure the bad players stay bad, and don't realise how bad they are because they always play against other bad players. It's like school sports days all over again - no losers, everyone gets a medal, don't make anyone feel bad because they are fat/slow/lazy - but you also fail to reward those who try hard, stay fit and excel at something. If you do this in SWGoH too, what is the incentive for people to improve?

    The beauty of this game is that there's no one way to play it. Also, I think you misunderstand collector's motivations. For them, there is always something more to collect. They don't need "motivating" game events to advance characters, that's literally their entire drive. They just tend to do it with more breadth than someone that is keenly focused on PvP.

    You also misunderstand fluffing. Someone isn't sacrificing advancement of a single toon, by leveling or gearing others.

    Scenario: You are focus farming gear to move Thrawn from G9 - > G10. That gear does not impact your ability to bring Qui Gon, Old Ben, and Farmboy Luke from G1 -> G7. They don't overlap.
  • Lot of good points and suggestions.....

    I am confident CG is and will be working on a better matchmaking formula. Hope to hear more details sooner rather then later.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »

    This isn't completely accurate. Back when Territory Bore was announced, many of us took all of our trash toons (of which there are many) and leveled them to 85, geared them to 8, and slapped on mods in order to help increase GP for the game mode and help out our guilds.

    Did this act impede our ability to construct a "competitive" roster? I'd argue no, not really. Credits at the top end of the game are plentiful, so the amount spent leveling trash to 85 was not preventing us from from leveling a useful toon to 85. Likewise, gear needed to get toons to level 8 is readily available as side junk from bronziums and more developed gear farms. And of course, we put our cruddy extra mods on these toons. Would we have 1-2 more g12 toons if we had not done these actions? Probably. Would we have 20? No way.

    Yet, what this selfless team oriented action did was artificially inflate our GP and penalize us in both TW and now GA due to poor matchmaking that looks more or less solely at GP.

    Also, keep in mind that TB came before either of these two new modes, so the actions we took that inflated GP occurred BEFORE we could have know about negative ramifications for doing so. In other words, while you maintain a choice for roster development was involved, I'm stating there was no choice whatsoever.

    What really needs to happen is matchmaking needs to be made based on numbers of toons at various gear levels as opposed to GP.

    I'm Sorry, But this argument is CRAP. Since wayyy before there was TB, TW, yadda yadda, We were told to improve your roster, you have to be selective about what you spend your resources on. So, there are some of us who only gear up toons or factions when we have the resources to do so.

    If you think about it, you actually gain MORE points for TW if you actually finish all rounds (especially during the 6th phase) than you would if you "artificially inflate" your GP by leveling up toons to 85 and gear VIII. So if you worked on factions to do well in TB, then you had a great base to start with once TW started. And now the same for GA.

    So yes, the best thing to do is farm toons to 7* but dont Gear or lvl them up until you are ready to take them up to gear XII. Otherwise, you get these whiny posts.

    This guy gets it......

    No. Neither you nor he do at all.

    I take it you have a fluffy roster..

    Sure. I have 65 G12, and 30 G11, but I have roughly 500k gp worth of "fluff" that was leveled and geared specifically to assist my guild in TB. Had I known in advance that it would penalize me for future game modes, I most certainly left those toons inactive like the first person I was matched against in GA. A person who had 25 more G12 than me, but still lost because he obviously didn't care.....

    I don't think it will penalize you...... Impressive roster btw ....
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »

    This isn't completely accurate. Back when Territory Bore was announced, many of us took all of our trash toons (of which there are many) and leveled them to 85, geared them to 8, and slapped on mods in order to help increase GP for the game mode and help out our guilds.

    Did this act impede our ability to construct a "competitive" roster? I'd argue no, not really. Credits at the top end of the game are plentiful, so the amount spent leveling trash to 85 was not preventing us from from leveling a useful toon to 85. Likewise, gear needed to get toons to level 8 is readily available as side junk from bronziums and more developed gear farms. And of course, we put our cruddy extra mods on these toons. Would we have 1-2 more g12 toons if we had not done these actions? Probably. Would we have 20? No way.

    Yet, what this selfless team oriented action did was artificially inflate our GP and penalize us in both TW and now GA due to poor matchmaking that looks more or less solely at GP.

    Also, keep in mind that TB came before either of these two new modes, so the actions we took that inflated GP occurred BEFORE we could have know about negative ramifications for doing so. In other words, while you maintain a choice for roster development was involved, I'm stating there was no choice whatsoever.

    What really needs to happen is matchmaking needs to be made based on numbers of toons at various gear levels as opposed to GP.

    I'm Sorry, But this argument is CRAP. Since wayyy before there was TB, TW, yadda yadda, We were told to improve your roster, you have to be selective about what you spend your resources on. So, there are some of us who only gear up toons or factions when we have the resources to do so.

    If you think about it, you actually gain MORE points for TW if you actually finish all rounds (especially during the 6th phase) than you would if you "artificially inflate" your GP by leveling up toons to 85 and gear VIII. So if you worked on factions to do well in TB, then you had a great base to start with once TW started. And now the same for GA.

    So yes, the best thing to do is farm toons to 7* but dont Gear or lvl them up until you are ready to take them up to gear XII. Otherwise, you get these whiny posts.

    This guy gets it......

    No. Neither you nor he do at all.

    I take it you have a fluffy roster..

    Sure. I have 65 G12, and 30 G11, but I have roughly 500k gp worth of "fluff" that was leveled and geared specifically to assist my guild in TB. Had I known in advance that it would penalize me for future game modes, I most certainly left those toons inactive like the first person I was matched against in GA. A person who had 25 more G12 than me, but still lost because he obviously didn't care.....

    I don't think it will penalize you...... Impressive roster btw ....

    It penalizes me in the sense that that 500k extra gp will sometimes match me with someone who has 20+ more G12 toons than me.

    In my bracket of GA, I need to field 7 defense teams (35 toons) and at least 7 (35 toons) offense teams to beat my opponent.

    At the very minimum one of my squads out of those 14 is going to have to be g11, while my opponent may be able to field all g12 squads. If one of his squads fails on offense, he may have at least 3 more g12 squads in reserve while I will be resorting to g11.

    This amounts to a significant disadvantage. This of course is an example just for myself, but the same applies across the board due to the matchmaking.

  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »

    This isn't completely accurate. Back when Territory Bore was announced, many of us took all of our trash toons (of which there are many) and leveled them to 85, geared them to 8, and slapped on mods in order to help increase GP for the game mode and help out our guilds.

    Did this act impede our ability to construct a "competitive" roster? I'd argue no, not really. Credits at the top end of the game are plentiful, so the amount spent leveling trash to 85 was not preventing us from from leveling a useful toon to 85. Likewise, gear needed to get toons to level 8 is readily available as side junk from bronziums and more developed gear farms. And of course, we put our cruddy extra mods on these toons. Would we have 1-2 more g12 toons if we had not done these actions? Probably. Would we have 20? No way.

    Yet, what this selfless team oriented action did was artificially inflate our GP and penalize us in both TW and now GA due to poor matchmaking that looks more or less solely at GP.

    Also, keep in mind that TB came before either of these two new modes, so the actions we took that inflated GP occurred BEFORE we could have know about negative ramifications for doing so. In other words, while you maintain a choice for roster development was involved, I'm stating there was no choice whatsoever.

    What really needs to happen is matchmaking needs to be made based on numbers of toons at various gear levels as opposed to GP.

    I'm Sorry, But this argument is CRAP. Since wayyy before there was TB, TW, yadda yadda, We were told to improve your roster, you have to be selective about what you spend your resources on. So, there are some of us who only gear up toons or factions when we have the resources to do so.

    If you think about it, you actually gain MORE points for TW if you actually finish all rounds (especially during the 6th phase) than you would if you "artificially inflate" your GP by leveling up toons to 85 and gear VIII. So if you worked on factions to do well in TB, then you had a great base to start with once TW started. And now the same for GA.

    So yes, the best thing to do is farm toons to 7* but dont Gear or lvl them up until you are ready to take them up to gear XII. Otherwise, you get these whiny posts.

    This guy gets it......

    No. Neither you nor he do at all.

    I take it you have a fluffy roster..

    Sure. I have 65 G12, and 30 G11, but I have roughly 500k gp worth of "fluff" that was leveled and geared specifically to assist my guild in TB. Had I known in advance that it would penalize me for future game modes, I most certainly left those toons inactive like the first person I was matched against in GA. A person who had 25 more G12 than me, but still lost because he obviously didn't care.....

    I don't think it will penalize you...... Impressive roster btw ....

    It penalizes me in the sense that that 500k extra gp will sometimes match me with someone who has 20+ more G12 toons than me.

    In my bracket of GA, I need to field 7 defense teams (35 toons) and at least 7 (35 toons) offense teams to beat my opponent.

    At the very minimum one of my squads out of those 14 is going to have to be g11, while my opponent may be able to field all g12 squads. If one of his squads fails on offense, he may have at least 3 more g12 squads in reserve while I will be resorting to g11.

    This amounts to a significant disadvantage. This of course is an example just for myself, but the same applies across the board due to the matchmaking.

    Then the question is whether g11 REALLY puts u at a significant disadvantage. The answer is no.
  • So now we can see the ships part of the GA , and look the rewards for having ships is 1/4 of what it is for toons, but ship GP is extremely inflated, now that we see this , and can only use 1 team on offense or defense, we can sefely say if you invested heavily in ships , youll be at a disadvantage in this event. Just like we predicted. And is why pure GP needs to be put to bed for GA matchmaking. kcoddp46y23n.jpg

  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »

    This isn't completely accurate. Back when Territory Bore was announced, many of us took all of our trash toons (of which there are many) and leveled them to 85, geared them to 8, and slapped on mods in order to help increase GP for the game mode and help out our guilds.

    Did this act impede our ability to construct a "competitive" roster? I'd argue no, not really. Credits at the top end of the game are plentiful, so the amount spent leveling trash to 85 was not preventing us from from leveling a useful toon to 85. Likewise, gear needed to get toons to level 8 is readily available as side junk from bronziums and more developed gear farms. And of course, we put our cruddy extra mods on these toons. Would we have 1-2 more g12 toons if we had not done these actions? Probably. Would we have 20? No way.

    Yet, what this selfless team oriented action did was artificially inflate our GP and penalize us in both TW and now GA due to poor matchmaking that looks more or less solely at GP.

    Also, keep in mind that TB came before either of these two new modes, so the actions we took that inflated GP occurred BEFORE we could have know about negative ramifications for doing so. In other words, while you maintain a choice for roster development was involved, I'm stating there was no choice whatsoever.

    What really needs to happen is matchmaking needs to be made based on numbers of toons at various gear levels as opposed to GP.

    I'm Sorry, But this argument is CRAP. Since wayyy before there was TB, TW, yadda yadda, We were told to improve your roster, you have to be selective about what you spend your resources on. So, there are some of us who only gear up toons or factions when we have the resources to do so.

    If you think about it, you actually gain MORE points for TW if you actually finish all rounds (especially during the 6th phase) than you would if you "artificially inflate" your GP by leveling up toons to 85 and gear VIII. So if you worked on factions to do well in TB, then you had a great base to start with once TW started. And now the same for GA.

    So yes, the best thing to do is farm toons to 7* but dont Gear or lvl them up until you are ready to take them up to gear XII. Otherwise, you get these whiny posts.

    This guy gets it......

    No. Neither you nor he do at all.

    I take it you have a fluffy roster..

    Sure. I have 65 G12, and 30 G11, but I have roughly 500k gp worth of "fluff" that was leveled and geared specifically to assist my guild in TB. Had I known in advance that it would penalize me for future game modes, I most certainly left those toons inactive like the first person I was matched against in GA. A person who had 25 more G12 than me, but still lost because he obviously didn't care.....

    I don't think it will penalize you...... Impressive roster btw ....

    It penalizes me in the sense that that 500k extra gp will sometimes match me with someone who has 20+ more G12 toons than me.

    In my bracket of GA, I need to field 7 defense teams (35 toons) and at least 7 (35 toons) offense teams to beat my opponent.

    At the very minimum one of my squads out of those 14 is going to have to be g11, while my opponent may be able to field all g12 squads. If one of his squads fails on offense, he may have at least 3 more g12 squads in reserve while I will be resorting to g11.

    This amounts to a significant disadvantage. This of course is an example just for myself, but the same applies across the board due to the matchmaking.

    I disagree..... A good g11 well composed squad with decent mods will take out a full g12 squad without decent mods all day every day.

    Also, you have 65 g12.... And many g11 ..... That's the equivalent of 13 full g12 teams plus what you have at g11.....

    In other words, if you look at your opponent roster and build your defence and plan for offence, you have a great chance..... And I don't think any of your fluff toons will even come into play.....

    Look at his squads, will he put x on defence and use y for.offence?...... If you were him, what would you do?..... Look at his or her arena team, they fight with it multiple times a day, so it's likely they will save it for offence..... Look at your teams ... Do you have a solid phoenix, NS, first order or other team that excels in tw because they gain back health and protection while fending off an attack?..... and his strong are they and where will you put them.....

    So much to consider ... This is what makes it fun vs all of these people wanting a free pass because they increased the warp drive to fluff factor 5......

    I think you are in a good.spot.....
  • JohnAran
    312 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.
  • So now we can see the ships part of the GA , and look the rewards for having ships is 1/4 of what it is for toons, but ship GP is extremely inflated, now that we see this , and can only use 1 team on offense or defense, we can sefely say if you invested heavily in ships , youll be at a disadvantage in this event. Just like we predicted. And is why pure GP needs to be put to bed for GA matchmaking. kcoddp46y23n.jpg

    Who said you can only use one fleet on offense?
  • FolsomTony wrote: »
    So now we can see the ships part of the GA , and look the rewards for having ships is 1/4 of what it is for toons, but ship GP is extremely inflated, now that we see this , and can only use 1 team on offense or defense, we can sefely say if you invested heavily in ships , youll be at a disadvantage in this event. Just like we predicted. And is why pure GP needs to be put to bed for GA matchmaking. kcoddp46y23n.jpg

    Who said you can only use one fleet on offense?

    Sorry 1 team on defense and only 1 team to beat on offense, if it takesmore than one, then yes you could use more
  • Who said you will reach fleet offense if your main focus is ships and opponent's focus is ground?
  • Darknesswon
    614 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Tilidi wrote: »
    Who said you will reach fleet offense if your main focus is ships and opponent's focus is ground?

    You wont , and the matchup will be crap , thats my point , thanks. Which is why we need a better measure than GP
  • Rebel_yell wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    the pool of usable toons in PvP is restricted to premier toons that can compete at lower stars / gear and G12 toons.

    This might be true in your GP range but it’s definitely not true in mine for GA purposes. 12 teams is a lot. Both of my opponents placed defense teams with multiple g8 characters on them, and I used g8 characters to fight those teams.

    Exactly, which is why i’m putting so much importance on gp and where the players are at in the game !
    @Rebel_yell You are again repeating everything that was said before but i really think that unlike what you said about me, the problem is you don’t seem to understand that what you said (your « baselines ») may be true for you but they are clearly false for a lot, and i mean a lot, of players. None of those baselines are true for me.
    1st : i had to put 5 teams on defense and attack with at least 5, that’s 50 characters. I have 10 g12.
    2nd : i beat g12 with g11 all the time. What you dismissed as « unless direct counters » is actually the whole point of the game mode and fighting with full rosters instead of 1 team ! G11 nightsisters can’t loose when attacking full g12 jtr. G10-11 troopers will walk on nightsisters. Etc etc.

    I tried to give you an exemple, me, not because i like to talk about me but to show you how it goes for people with lower gp. My .gg : https://swgoh.gg/p/113669163
    As you can see, g12 for me doesn’t mean that much, because the difference of power between a g11 and a g12 is not as much as you make it sound. G12 doesn’t mean full g12+, zetad, full 6* mods. Those are extremely different things.
    I actually won my ga with my opponent crashing against my smugglers, a 58k gp team lead by g7 qi’ra.

    To be honest, at my level of play, revan and traya will 100% be the deciding factor. I won’t beat someone who has one of them regardless of the rest of the roster because power creep got into a whole other dimension with them. But those are accessible to me, the only reason i don’t have them is i chose to.

    Again i can’t identify the point in the game where both things are true : you can start pouring ressources into useless stuff without slowing down your main focus, and you can meet people who played way longer than you (that would be the only way for them to unfairly have access to much more ressources than you). It seems obvious to you that this point exists (to the point that you think to seem everyone is in the same boat, see your baselines), but i don’t see it. When did that become true for you ? When did you start the game, when did you start lvling useless toons because you had the credit ? What kind of players do you meet ? When did they start ? Those are useful, concrete information.

    Things such as « people who don’t activate and promote characters will have a favorable match up », although technically true, are most likely a negligible factor. The % of players who don’t activate and promote characters is very low, espcially long term players since as you say they have the credits to do so. It’s even less of a factor when you think that activating and promoting characters doesn’t do much for your gp before getting to 6-7 stars, and most characters introduced the past year and then some were marquees that you need to farm for a long time to get to that point. Again the number of people who would farm a marquee to 7* without activating it is most likely low. Plus tb platoons.
    All in all i think that the truth is player’s quality of play is by really far the most important factor in the current match making, and some people are trying to blow other, much less impactful factors way out of proportion to justify a change that would be beneficial for them. I won’t say that categorically though. Maybe i’m wrong and there is a group of player of significant size who are actually in an unfair situation. I just can’t see it.

    I can't comment on your tactics because I can't see your opponent, but you won, and you did so resourcefully, so sincere congratulations on that.

    I may be missing where I'm not answering your question regarding why we should change the matchmaking calculation, but my summary is this: When you have a game mode that does not foster competitive play, fewer people play. At the surface level, that would seem beneficiary to us, but it's not. There are a finite number of whales that will ever play this game so it needs to build a large base of small spenders. If you lose that base, you lose the game. I like the game. I want it to be fair to those die hards like us and the non-forum participants that play casually.

    To your question about when did I hit a point where credits were more disposable? I'd say right around 3.5 GP, maybe earlier. Once our guild had HSTR on farm I wasn't pushing as hard for mods and gearing certain toons (I had to grind hard for Nightsisters). But at about 3.5 GP you're at a point where the grind to advance past your next gear wall takes so long that you kinda just get bored and start messing around with the roster. Adding mods, leveling up CUP, tossing gear on 3* toons. I like making incremental progress.

    If you want to see some of my goofiness: https://swgoh.gg/p/959311831/

    My opponent had no chance of winning because his roster was much weaker than mine, but thanks anyway.

    I just don’t understand how you can assume that the game mode will be bad and no one will play it. Did i miss the post were official numbers showed the % of « unfair vs fair » match ups ? I guess what i’m trying to say from the beginning is this : really unfair matchups are more likely to be outliers (i hope this word means what i think it means xD, english is not my main language) than the norm. People just think that unbalanced match ups are automatically unfair when in truth, a lot are simply fairly unbalanced because one of the players is just better.
    So people blew some specific, rare factors out of proportion to make it so the whole game mode is completly unfair and uninteresting.
    We don’t even know the % of « collectors » vs « pvp focused », the number of unbalanced matchups and the actual « fairness » of those.

    That’s my opinion. People started burning everything down, we didn’t even had the chance to play 1 grand arena.
  • So after looking at my matchup and seeing 6 guys with top 10 Revan teams and maybe 1 guy who I could possibly beat, I've decided to not set any defenses so that I can complete the Quests faster. There is literally no incentive to set defenses, while there IS incentive for me to use all of my characters on offense.

    I don't think this is what was intended, but I'll take the free omega and zeta mats while the winners can enjoy their mod salvage.

  • I just set my defence and now I'll ignore it until the glowing number in my message box appears again.

    I'm one of the focus types.

    One nightmare team resplendent in gold and a whole bunch of garbage at 7* G8/9 a few at 10, mainly for ship purposes.
    Hey, it's still better than MSF
  • The game has always been like this ... Not certain why some older players are feeling hurt over one game mode......
  • My feelings aren't hurt at all. I am just pointing out that the reward system is poorly thought out and incentivizes players to join and then not set defensive teams if they think they will lose.

  • BeralCator wrote: »
    My feelings aren't hurt at all. I am just pointing out that the reward system is poorly thought out and incentivizes players to join and then not set defensive teams if they think they will lose.

    It's not like you'll earn those quests over and over again. One and done for each, then you move on. Everybody will complete them, some just a little slower when they run into players that have a sense that since they're outmatched, they think it'll be fun to ruin someone else experience.

    But it won't ruin mine, I'll take my rewards, either 1st or down to 8th, improve where I can, and have a go next time.
  • BeralCator wrote: »
    My feelings aren't hurt at all. I am just pointing out that the reward system is poorly thought out and incentivizes players to join and then not set defensive teams if they think they will lose.

    Except it doesn't....
  • No_Try
    3661 posts Member
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.

    How is it stronger by any practical term? How can't he meet someone with both the same gp and less fluff? He absolutely can and does as my current matching in GA.
  • No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.

    How is it stronger by any practical term? How can't he meet someone with both the same gp and less fluff? He absolutely can and does as my current matching in GA.

    Why can't the system make matchups for us that ignores where we are weak and rewards us all equally?...... I want an equal matchup that ignores all of the useless fluff I built up....... But, I also want said useless fluff to count in other game modes....

    /Sarcasm

    It's a new game mode..... Get used to it, evaluate your roster and act accordingly.... This isn't rocket surgery....you can't have your cake and eat it too in this game....
Sign In or Register to comment.