GP Matchmaking & “Fluff”

Replies

  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.

    How is it stronger by any practical term? How can't he meet someone with both the same gp and less fluff? He absolutely can and does as my current matching in GA.

    Why can't the system make matchups for us that ignores where we are weak and rewards us all equally?...... I want an equal matchup that ignores all of the useless fluff I built up....... But, I also want said useless fluff to count in other game modes....

    /Sarcasm

    It's a new game mode..... Get used to it, evaluate your roster and act accordingly.... This isn't rocket surgery....you can't have your cake and eat it too in this game....

    Will you please post your swgoh.gg account....I'm very curious if you're like a 1.5m GP player. That is all, lol.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    BeralCator wrote: »
    My feelings aren't hurt at all. I am just pointing out that the reward system is poorly thought out and incentivizes players to join and then not set defensive teams if they think they will lose.

    Except it doesn't....

    What incentive is there to set a defense if you are horribly outmatched? None.

    What incentive is there to use all your characters on offense? Getting the Quest rewards faster.


  • No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.

    How is it stronger by any practical term? How can't he meet someone with both the same gp and less fluff? He absolutely can and does as my current matching in GA.

    It is strictly stronger. The fact that you can’t make use of that strenght in grand arena doesn’t make it less true. You won’t use it in squad arena either. It’s still stronger.
    If you read carefully I said as an example, if they are day 1 player they can’t. It’s very obvious they can’t, since there is no way a day 1 fluffy player meets a player with same gp but no fluff. Where would that player come from ? Unless it’s a whale who bought tons of stuff, and then the matchup is unbalanced in a perfectly fair way : the whale paid for that competitive advantage.
  • Austin9370 wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.

    How is it stronger by any practical term? How can't he meet someone with both the same gp and less fluff? He absolutely can and does as my current matching in GA.

    Why can't the system make matchups for us that ignores where we are weak and rewards us all equally?...... I want an equal matchup that ignores all of the useless fluff I built up....... But, I also want said useless fluff to count in other game modes....

    /Sarcasm

    It's a new game mode..... Get used to it, evaluate your roster and act accordingly.... This isn't rocket surgery....you can't have your cake and eat it too in this game....

    Will you please post your swgoh.gg account....I'm very curious if you're like a 1.5m GP player. That is all, lol.

    He is. His thrawn is G7. Or he posted a fake screen shot. Tough to tell. But my guess is early stage
  • I feel like CG is going to pop in here and provide the formula and we’ll all have been off and feel like we wasted 2 days...
  • Rebel_yell wrote: »
    Austin9370 wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.

    How is it stronger by any practical term? How can't he meet someone with both the same gp and less fluff? He absolutely can and does as my current matching in GA.

    Why can't the system make matchups for us that ignores where we are weak and rewards us all equally?...... I want an equal matchup that ignores all of the useless fluff I built up....... But, I also want said useless fluff to count in other game modes....

    /Sarcasm

    It's a new game mode..... Get used to it, evaluate your roster and act accordingly.... This isn't rocket surgery....you can't have your cake and eat it too in this game....

    Will you please post your swgoh.gg account....I'm very curious if you're like a 1.5m GP player. That is all, lol.

    He is. His thrawn is G7. Or he posted a fake screen shot. Tough to tell. But my guess is early stage

    Either way, it sounds like he's a joke. I think a forum improvement would be forcing a swgoh account to be tied to the forum profile. It will eliminate the credibility of some of these so called experts hanging in the 100s in arena.
  • No_Try
    3791 posts Member
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.

    How is it stronger by any practical term? How can't he meet someone with both the same gp and less fluff? He absolutely can and does as my current matching in GA.

    Why can't the system make matchups for us that ignores where we are weak and rewards us all equally?...... I want an equal matchup that ignores all of the useless fluff I built up....... But, I also want said useless fluff to count in other game modes....

    /Sarcasm

    It's a new game mode..... Get used to it, evaluate your roster and act accordingly.... This isn't rocket surgery....you can't have your cake and eat it too in this game....

    Why not? Until CG decided it's now not ok to push for more GP in light of this mode (and to way lesser extent TW) it was all good. They basically pulled a 180 on us.

    Just as I am motivated for a certain cause, you are motivated for the opposite of it, because you have way less fluff. It's not like you are objective whatsoever.
  • Vicarious
    269 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    The game has always been like this ... Not certain why some older players are feeling hurt over one game mode......

    What are you smoking. Game wasn’t like this at all until TW was introduced. Before that, CG attempted to get players to work on a wide verity of characters for this and that.

    Most of those toons are now “useless” for whatever reasons.

    Post edited by Vicarious on
  • No_Try
    3791 posts Member
    JohnAran wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.

    How is it stronger by any practical term? How can't he meet someone with both the same gp and less fluff? He absolutely can and does as my current matching in GA.

    It is strictly stronger. The fact that you can’t make use of that strenght in grand arena doesn’t make it less true. You won’t use it in squad arena either. It’s still stronger.
    If you read carefully I said as an example, if they are day 1 player they can’t. It’s very obvious they can’t, since there is no way a day 1 fluffy player meets a player with same gp but no fluff. Where would that player come from ? Unless it’s a whale who bought tons of stuff, and then the matchup is unbalanced in a perfectly fair way : the whale paid for that competitive advantage.

    Thanks for answering yourself. Day 1 player with fluff will get matched with spenders of later eras. But he can also get matched with any other day 1 player too with less fluff and more geared toons. It's not like day 1 players are made in a factory.

    I don't agree with your point either. I'm totally fine with being rolf stomped by a whale. Just not because of my actual roster strength in game playing terms which GP simply doesn't measure.

    The question is do you want fair matches or not? Do you want matches that finishes before they began just via quick glimpse of roster comparison and g12s? Or do you rather have a grand royale with your opponent where it boils down to a battle of wits?
  • So many people whining about this... You aren't going to be the best at every Game Mode. A lot of people leveled up their random characters that they had no intent on using to lvl 50 and g7/g8 so that they could get higher rewards. You decided to inflate your GP and as a result, perform better in TB and have been getting more rewards. Now you are in Grand Arena and that can hurt you.. That sucks. For you. There are plenty of us that didn't do that and are much better off than you are when it comes to this matchmaking. Don't have any doubts that it will eventually get adjusted and they will find a way to accommodate you.

    Just try to remember, you aren't the only one playing the game. I'm matched against 6 people that really don't have a chance to beat me and one that is pretty even split.. Will likely seem him in the finals and will decide first, but EVERYONE ELSE is very fairly matched. That means that they will all have 2 battles out of 3 that are a challenge. That is actually more of a challenge than what I have... which the challenge is the fun part!!

    Biggest difference in all of this is Speed.. learn how to properly farm your resources, collect speed mods, and go after the right characters. If you want to level up anyone you want or decide to not save and use your resources wisely; well, that's your decision.

    All in all... just be thankful we are getting all these new toons and new game modes.. Most games die out quickly and they are working to keep it fresh and try new things. It takes time to work things out and not everything is supposed to be easy.

    Something that doesn't get said very often. Thanks CG.
  • Totally agree with the above (except speed isn’t the be all end all; other stats matter a lot as well). Everyone complaining about their fluffy rosters needs to remember what happened at the initial stages of TW matchmaking: guilds being 30-60 million GP underdogs. Sadly, I’m not exaggerating. More than once I saw guilds being doubled up on GP, just because the other guild had less players, or because we had the same number of “quality” teams.
    If they start matchmaking people based on numbers of revan, treya, Bh, etc, you’re going to end up with players who roster-focus fighting guys 2-3 times their GP. Sure, the top teams are even, but they will lack the ability to place anything on defense and have enough for offense; or visa versa. They will be outmatched due to sheer numbers. “Well, most of those are crap toons that aren’t useful anyway”.
    That’s a complete lie. Last TW I beat a fully g12 treya team with thrawn, DT, tarkin, TFP, and sun fac. I still don’t know how I did it. Get inventive, and start using that roster. Don’t have enough mods to make it work? Have no viable team compositions? That sounds like an error in farming judgement. Don’t blame other people for focusing resources in more logical areas, just because you decided to farm with a shotgun. I spent two YEARS farming mods like a religion, purposefully pulling resources away from cantina shards toward better mod depth.
    You chose to gear CUP and tuskens.
    I chose to farm mods and focus coherent, relevant teams.
    Not my fault fluffy players either lack foresight or discipline.
  • Nikarah wrote: »
    Totally agree with the above (except speed isn’t the be all end all; other stats matter a lot as well). Everyone complaining about their fluffy rosters needs to remember what happened at the initial stages of TW matchmaking: guilds being 30-60 million GP underdogs. Sadly, I’m not exaggerating. More than once I saw guilds being doubled up on GP, just because the other guild had less players, or because we had the same number of “quality” teams.
    If they start matchmaking people based on numbers of revan, treya, Bh, etc, you’re going to end up with players who roster-focus fighting guys 2-3 times their GP. Sure, the top teams are even, but they will lack the ability to place anything on defense and have enough for offense; or visa versa. They will be outmatched due to sheer numbers. “Well, most of those are crap toons that aren’t useful anyway”.
    That’s a complete lie. Last TW I beat a fully g12 treya team with thrawn, DT, tarkin, TFP, and sun fac. I still don’t know how I did it. Get inventive, and start using that roster. Don’t have enough mods to make it work? Have no viable team compositions? That sounds like an error in farming judgement. Don’t blame other people for focusing resources in more logical areas, just because you decided to farm with a shotgun. I spent two YEARS farming mods like a religion, purposefully pulling resources away from cantina shards toward better mod depth.
    You chose to gear CUP and tuskens.
    I chose to farm mods and focus coherent, relevant teams.
    Not my fault fluffy players either lack foresight or discipline.

    Wait , so its ok if fluffy people are matched against people with better rosters since we have a limit to a small # of teams, but it wouldnt be ok if it was the other way. Because lean people dont have enough squads to compete with them?????? Are you serious dude. Did you even read what you wrote.
  • Nikarah wrote: »
    Totally agree with the above (except speed isn’t the be all end all; other stats matter a lot as well). Everyone complaining about their fluffy rosters needs to remember what happened at the initial stages of TW matchmaking: guilds being 30-60 million GP underdogs. Sadly, I’m not exaggerating. More than once I saw guilds being doubled up on GP, just because the other guild had less players, or because we had the same number of “quality” teams.
    If they start matchmaking people based on numbers of revan, treya, Bh, etc, you’re going to end up with players who roster-focus fighting guys 2-3 times their GP. Sure, the top teams are even, but they will lack the ability to place anything on defense and have enough for offense; or visa versa. They will be outmatched due to sheer numbers. “Well, most of those are crap toons that aren’t useful anyway”.
    That’s a complete lie. Last TW I beat a fully g12 treya team with thrawn, DT, tarkin, TFP, and sun fac. I still don’t know how I did it. Get inventive, and start using that roster. Don’t have enough mods to make it work? Have no viable team compositions? That sounds like an error in farming judgement. Don’t blame other people for focusing resources in more logical areas, just because you decided to farm with a shotgun. I spent two YEARS farming mods like a religion, purposefully pulling resources away from cantina shards toward better mod depth.
    You chose to gear CUP and tuskens.
    I chose to farm mods and focus coherent, relevant teams.
    Not my fault fluffy players either lack foresight or discipline.

    Wait , so its ok if fluffy people are matched against people with better rosters since we have a limit to a small # of teams, but it wouldnt be ok if it was the other way. Because lean people dont have enough squads to compete with them?????? Are you serious dude. Did you even read what you wrote.


    The difference is we physically WOULD NOT HAVE characters to place.
    In the meantime, you’d still be just as likely to get paired vs a fluffy player who is well above you in GP but also has similar available teams, and you’d be right back here whining about how you got paired with a guy 30% higher GP than you, who could afford to place mediocre teams on D, and still full-clear your entire defense. So, you would have accomplished nothing outside of dragging down people who didn’t make awful roster choices. GP is like money (sometimes literally). Imagine someone hands you $50,000 and says do what you want with it. You decide to waste it away on scratch off tickets and new rims for your car. I invest in my child’s education. We both had $50,000, but now you’re upset that your kid is working at Burger King. Not my fault you allocated your resources poorly.

  • StoemKnight
    24 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    No one intelligent told any of you to fluff your rosters, but you did it anyway because you wanted to.
  • I’d just like a match system which lets me fight “similar rosters” to mine. A simple count of G12, zetas, and GP should do it. Looking at my bracket, we are all close in character and fleet GP, but only one player is close to mine in G12. Rest are 2x+ to my 24. If I get to fight the similar roster, I’ll take it dead seriously, otherwise I’ll just test out some new teams for TW defense and skip the attacks - not like there is a great mystery what the outcome will be. I just don’t buy that with the hundred of thousands of players this game has that it is that tough to come up with a better system which delivers the stated intent of creating a brackets of 8 similar rosters.
  • It isn't a match up of similar rosters. Why match people up with the same squads... then it'll be all based on mods and who places what only. I think one of the best I heard was taking the GP of the top 50, 60, or 70 toons depending on the total GP and match them up.

    Regardless... if the same strategy holds, you'll see everyone start to balance out in 2-3 months. Just enjoy the new game mode. Get some practice in and maybe surprise someone who isn't pushing hard.
  • Penalizing the broadening of your roster to play raids is very, very foolish from the standpoint that many players will not want to advance. I'm at 2.4 m GP. I am thinking stopping right here right now instead of advancing into the next echelon. I'm going to drop all the mods from non-viable characters then. Wow. Great strategy, Capital Games! It sounds way better than Blitz Mode in Marvel Strike Force where players are encouraged to theorycraft and have a bunch of lineups that are viable and get wins to up the score. SARCASM
  • This would all be fine if there was a way to bin characters or ungear and unstar them. But there is no way for people who have deliberately increased GP to help their guild in territory battles to take that back. For me the solution is for it to be done in leagues. The rewards scale up depending on which league you're in. 3 wins means promotion and 3 losses means relegation. So 3 losses in the top league is worth the same as 3 wins in the 2nd league. A bit like the way the territory wars rewards work. The initial leagues could be set on GP brackets. However the people with fluff will drop down to a league where they are more competitive, but would not get as good rewards as the people with a lot of gear 12 toons.
  • Until there are more capital ships they should not count the GP of your ships ranked 29th or worse as there is no way to use them.
  • Nauros
    2880 posts Member
    .
    I’d just like a match system which lets me fight “similar rosters” to mine. A simple count of G12, zetas, and GP should do it. Looking at my bracket, we are all close in character and fleet GP, but only one player is close to mine in G12. Rest are 2x+ to my 24. If I get to fight the similar roster, I’ll take it dead seriously, otherwise I’ll just test out some new teams for TW defense and skip the attacks - not like there is a great mystery what the outcome will be. I just don’t buy that with the hundred of thousands of players this game has that it is that tough to come up with a better system which delivers the stated intent of creating a brackets of 8 similar rosters.

    This. Using GP as a starting point and then trying to get, say, G12, G11 and Zeta counts as close as possible would definitely lead to fairer matches. Of course, there would still be discrepancies (Revan vs no Revan), but matching 1:1 would be boring.
    Also, you shouldn't skip attack. You get interesting quest rewards even if you don't win the round.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • 2smooth
    504 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Gorem wrote: »
    The way I see it is that its just like TW, sometimes you'll get people to steamroll, other times people will steamroll you and rarely you get a match that's actually an even good fight. Just gotta hope to get more of the rare actual even good fights then not.

    But since its like TW and how bad the matchmaking is there most of the time - its terrible right now. Maybe changes down the line fixes it.

    I mean we told them SO many times from multiple people that basing it off GP is wrong. GP means nothing Gp actually means literally squat when it comes to how strong a player is.

    I have near 2mil gp and there is 3.5mil gp players that I could squash. Mods and Gear and the right toons are what matters. Never GP....

    Edit: Though what seems to be worse is that Ship GP was included in these matchups, so people with more ships then toons will be at the most disadvantage here. (Untill we get ship area's)
    If gp means nothing y do guilds say x amount of gp to join? Or r they just looking for deployment GP for TB battle deployment. And players a well use GP as a reference to who is stronger or better player so most seem to think it means something from those examples lol
  • No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.

    How is it stronger by any practical term? How can't he meet someone with both the same gp and less fluff? He absolutely can and does as my current matching in GA.

    It is strictly stronger. The fact that you can’t make use of that strenght in grand arena doesn’t make it less true. You won’t use it in squad arena either. It’s still stronger.
    If you read carefully I said as an example, if they are day 1 player they can’t. It’s very obvious they can’t, since there is no way a day 1 fluffy player meets a player with same gp but no fluff. Where would that player come from ? Unless it’s a whale who bought tons of stuff, and then the matchup is unbalanced in a perfectly fair way : the whale paid for that competitive advantage.

    Thanks for answering yourself. Day 1 player with fluff will get matched with spenders of later eras. But he can also get matched with any other day 1 player too with less fluff and more geared toons. It's not like day 1 players are made in a factory.

    That’s not possible if what people have been saying is true, which is « i didn’t waste any ressources because the fluff and the main teams don’t overlap ». Then the day 1 player with fluff will just have the same main teams as the other but more gp.
    If it’s not the case and they wasted ressources on useless stuff again the matchup is unbalanced in a fair way.
    I don't agree with your point either. I'm totally fine with being rolf stomped by a whale. Just not because of my actual roster strength in game playing terms which GP simply doesn't measure.

    But then again that’s not really how things happen most of the time. You read a few threads on the forums and it feels like 99.9% of the matchups were unfairly unbalanced. I really don’t believe it to be true.
    The question is do you want fair matches or not? Do you want matches that finishes before they began just via quick glimpse of roster comparison and g12s? Or do you rather have a grand royale with your opponent where it boils down to a battle of wits?

    You are trying to make it so an unbalanced matchup is always unfair. If i invested more money, time, energy and thoughts in my roster to be better than my opponents, and end up being actually better than them, i don’t see how that’s unfair.
    That’s where the disagreement between us is.

    As i said before in a post, when i upgrade my roster it’s not to have the chance to lose against stronger people than before, it’s to be sure to win against the same people than before.
  • No_Try
    3791 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    JohnAran wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.

    How is it stronger by any practical term? How can't he meet someone with both the same gp and less fluff? He absolutely can and does as my current matching in GA.

    It is strictly stronger. The fact that you can’t make use of that strenght in grand arena doesn’t make it less true. You won’t use it in squad arena either. It’s still stronger.
    If you read carefully I said as an example, if they are day 1 player they can’t. It’s very obvious they can’t, since there is no way a day 1 fluffy player meets a player with same gp but no fluff. Where would that player come from ? Unless it’s a whale who bought tons of stuff, and then the matchup is unbalanced in a perfectly fair way : the whale paid for that competitive advantage.

    Thanks for answering yourself. Day 1 player with fluff will get matched with spenders of later eras. But he can also get matched with any other day 1 player too with less fluff and more geared toons. It's not like day 1 players are made in a factory.

    That’s not possible if what people have been saying is true, which is « i didn’t waste any ressources because the fluff and the main teams don’t overlap ». Then the day 1 player with fluff will just have the same main teams as the other but more gp.
    If it’s not the case and they wasted ressources on useless stuff again the matchup is unbalanced in a fair way.
    I don't agree with your point either. I'm totally fine with being rolf stomped by a whale. Just not because of my actual roster strength in game playing terms which GP simply doesn't measure.

    But then again that’s not really how things happen most of the time. You read a few threads on the forums and it feels like 99.9% of the matchups were unfairly unbalanced. I really don’t believe it to be true.
    The question is do you want fair matches or not? Do you want matches that finishes before they began just via quick glimpse of roster comparison and g12s? Or do you rather have a grand royale with your opponent where it boils down to a battle of wits?

    You are trying to make it so an unbalanced matchup is always unfair. If i invested more money, time, energy and thoughts in my roster to be better than my opponents, and end up being actually better than them, i don’t see how that’s unfair.
    That’s where the disagreement between us is.

    As i said before in a post, when i upgrade my roster it’s not to have the chance to lose against stronger people than before, it’s to be sure to win against the same people than before.

    You are only talking in theoraticals. And you are talking as if the game launched with TW/GA i.e. with our retrospective viewpoints eminating in light of how matchmaking is made in these 2 modes. A simple look at your roster supports why this is the case. You never had the option to put resources to anything beyond what was necessary at the time and what catching up you had to do.

    What's up with all the fluff in your roster btw? You fluffed quite a bit alright. You just didn't have the resources to fluff as much as I do (without any impact elsewhere)
  • No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.

    How is it stronger by any practical term? How can't he meet someone with both the same gp and less fluff? He absolutely can and does as my current matching in GA.

    It is strictly stronger. The fact that you can’t make use of that strenght in grand arena doesn’t make it less true. You won’t use it in squad arena either. It’s still stronger.
    If you read carefully I said as an example, if they are day 1 player they can’t. It’s very obvious they can’t, since there is no way a day 1 fluffy player meets a player with same gp but no fluff. Where would that player come from ? Unless it’s a whale who bought tons of stuff, and then the matchup is unbalanced in a perfectly fair way : the whale paid for that competitive advantage.

    Thanks for answering yourself. Day 1 player with fluff will get matched with spenders of later eras. But he can also get matched with any other day 1 player too with less fluff and more geared toons. It's not like day 1 players are made in a factory.

    That’s not possible if what people have been saying is true, which is « i didn’t waste any ressources because the fluff and the main teams don’t overlap ». Then the day 1 player with fluff will just have the same main teams as the other but more gp.
    If it’s not the case and they wasted ressources on useless stuff again the matchup is unbalanced in a fair way.
    I don't agree with your point either. I'm totally fine with being rolf stomped by a whale. Just not because of my actual roster strength in game playing terms which GP simply doesn't measure.

    But then again that’s not really how things happen most of the time. You read a few threads on the forums and it feels like 99.9% of the matchups were unfairly unbalanced. I really don’t believe it to be true.
    The question is do you want fair matches or not? Do you want matches that finishes before they began just via quick glimpse of roster comparison and g12s? Or do you rather have a grand royale with your opponent where it boils down to a battle of wits?

    You are trying to make it so an unbalanced matchup is always unfair. If i invested more money, time, energy and thoughts in my roster to be better than my opponents, and end up being actually better than them, i don’t see how that’s unfair.
    That’s where the disagreement between us is.

    As i said before in a post, when i upgrade my roster it’s not to have the chance to lose against stronger people than before, it’s to be sure to win against the same people than before.

    You are only talking in theoraticals. And you are talking as if the game launched with TW/GA i.e. with our retrospective viewpoints eminating in light of how matchmaking is made in these 2 modes. A simple look at your roster supports why this is the case. You never had the option to put resources to anything beyond what was necessary at the time and what catching up you had to do.

    What's up with all the fluff in your roster btw? You fluffed quite a bit alright. You just didn't have the resources to fluff as much as I do (without any impact elsewhere)

    I am not really but it should be basically irrelevant since again, if « back in the days this was not considered fluff » is true, then most players should have this fluff, it won’t affect matchups most of the time, right ?

    As for my fluff, i’ve said it here before i think (or meant to). I try to avoid wasting ressources when possible, but any character not lvl 1 has abilities lvl 3, not further because i have no mkIII to spare. I unlock and promote every character and ship everytime i can for platoon purpose and i might put on some very common gear from time to time. I also start working on teams i want to play in the future before i can max them out. So you see you think i have « fluff ».
    And yet both my 1 round matchups were insanely easy, and my currents 7 opponents are all below or close to me strenght-wise. So you could say :
    - I didn’t make any special efforts to keep my roster extra lean (even the opposite)
    - My first 9 matchups ranged from very favorable to me to even
    Looks to me like things are simply not as dire as people want to believe.
  • No one intelligent told any of you to fluff your rosters, but you did it anyway because you wanted to.

    You must be a new player because yes we were. You hear of TB? Before that, mod farming required specific fluff.
  • Rebel_yell
    928 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    No one intelligent told any of you to fluff your rosters, but you did it anyway because you wanted to.

    You must be a new player because yes we were. You hear of TB? Before that, mod farming required specific fluff.

    not just mod farming, remember the limited characters viable for Yoda legendary? I had to beat that thing with Plo Koon, Eeth Koth, and Lumi on my squad. Had to gear them to actually complete it, they haven't changed status since.

    Edit - actually, I have been geating plo koon for his ship, so only applicable to Eeth and Lumi
  • Seriously? "Fluff Teams" ?

    If someone chooses to gear CUP or Ugnaught to G12 , whereas someone focuses on teams w/syergy , thats poor planning on that persons part.

    You also don't need to unlock and gear up every new player that comes out...........leave them at lvl 1 with no gear until you can fit them into a team.
  • No_Try
    3791 posts Member
    JohnAran wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Why are people insisting that "fluff" is a collector vs focus issue?
    Here is a hypo to better explain "fluff":
    Player A and Player B both have 160 toons.
    The top 100 toons are identical; same level, gear, and mods.
    Player A levels his remaining 60 toons to lvl 85 and g8.
    Player B leaves these 60 toons at lvl 1 and g1.
    Player A now has an inflated GP by 600k.
    Player A is not punished and Player B is not rewarded for (lack of) focus.
    Player A is punished and B is rewarded for NOT improving bad toons.
    This IS Paper Zombie Grand Arena.

    Your exemple is only telling if player A is punished. To be punished player A needs to meet a player C who has the same gp as him (600k more than B ), but much stronger, and who got those in an « unfair » way, the only existing one being he played for much longer.
    People seem to take for granted that if you have fluff you will be at an « unfair » disadvantage but it doesn’t work like this.

    In your example if both Player A and B are day 1 players the fluff will not punish A since he can’t meet someone with both same gp as him and less fluff.

    This is absolutely not like paper zombie since player’s A roster is strictly stronger than player’s B.

    How is it stronger by any practical term? How can't he meet someone with both the same gp and less fluff? He absolutely can and does as my current matching in GA.

    It is strictly stronger. The fact that you can’t make use of that strenght in grand arena doesn’t make it less true. You won’t use it in squad arena either. It’s still stronger.
    If you read carefully I said as an example, if they are day 1 player they can’t. It’s very obvious they can’t, since there is no way a day 1 fluffy player meets a player with same gp but no fluff. Where would that player come from ? Unless it’s a whale who bought tons of stuff, and then the matchup is unbalanced in a perfectly fair way : the whale paid for that competitive advantage.

    Thanks for answering yourself. Day 1 player with fluff will get matched with spenders of later eras. But he can also get matched with any other day 1 player too with less fluff and more geared toons. It's not like day 1 players are made in a factory.

    That’s not possible if what people have been saying is true, which is « i didn’t waste any ressources because the fluff and the main teams don’t overlap ». Then the day 1 player with fluff will just have the same main teams as the other but more gp.
    If it’s not the case and they wasted ressources on useless stuff again the matchup is unbalanced in a fair way.
    I don't agree with your point either. I'm totally fine with being rolf stomped by a whale. Just not because of my actual roster strength in game playing terms which GP simply doesn't measure.

    But then again that’s not really how things happen most of the time. You read a few threads on the forums and it feels like 99.9% of the matchups were unfairly unbalanced. I really don’t believe it to be true.
    The question is do you want fair matches or not? Do you want matches that finishes before they began just via quick glimpse of roster comparison and g12s? Or do you rather have a grand royale with your opponent where it boils down to a battle of wits?

    You are trying to make it so an unbalanced matchup is always unfair. If i invested more money, time, energy and thoughts in my roster to be better than my opponents, and end up being actually better than them, i don’t see how that’s unfair.
    That’s where the disagreement between us is.

    As i said before in a post, when i upgrade my roster it’s not to have the chance to lose against stronger people than before, it’s to be sure to win against the same people than before.

    You are only talking in theoraticals. And you are talking as if the game launched with TW/GA i.e. with our retrospective viewpoints eminating in light of how matchmaking is made in these 2 modes. A simple look at your roster supports why this is the case. You never had the option to put resources to anything beyond what was necessary at the time and what catching up you had to do.

    What's up with all the fluff in your roster btw? You fluffed quite a bit alright. You just didn't have the resources to fluff as much as I do (without any impact elsewhere)

    I am not really but it should be basically irrelevant since again, if « back in the days this was not considered fluff » is true, then most players should have this fluff, it won’t affect matchups most of the time, right ?

    As for my fluff, i’ve said it here before i think (or meant to). I try to avoid wasting ressources when possible, but any character not lvl 1 has abilities lvl 3, not further because i have no mkIII to spare. I unlock and promote every character and ship everytime i can for platoon purpose and i might put on some very common gear from time to time. I also start working on teams i want to play in the future before i can max them out. So you see you think i have « fluff ».
    And yet both my 1 round matchups were insanely easy, and my currents 7 opponents are all below or close to me strenght-wise. So you could say :
    - I didn’t make any special efforts to keep my roster extra lean (even the opposite)
    - My first 9 matchups ranged from very favorable to me to even
    Looks to me like things are simply not as dire as people want to believe.

    The player are not matched based on their total playing time, do they? And I'm not opting for that to be the case either. Any player matches is legit as long as it considers other factors that got listed numerous times through this topic.

    We don't need to act or opiniate only if a situation is dire or the end is nigh. Anything less than what can realistically be done by the company is enough for such. We each swing their actions in some way even though it's a very slow process. I'm pretty sure this one will too given time despite the naysayers who are willingly short sighted in their take of the situation.
  • JohnAran wrote: »
    I am not really but it should be basically irrelevant since again, if « back in the days this was not considered fluff » is true, then most players should have this fluff, it won’t affect matchups most of the time, right ?

    Only if both players started around the same time. GP and time are not always synonymous. I started in April 2016, and have ~3.5m gp. One of my guildmates started just over a year ago, and has about 50k gp less than me. What it means is he missed the dooku/old ben meta, wiggs, maul, triple cleanse, etc... lots of old metas, that I played through. Now, not all of those characters are useless, but it does mean that there are characters I may have geared up that he never did, because in the last year they haven't been worthwhile.

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