Sandbagging, the new normal?

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Throughout my Grand Arena, dozens of level 1s is common place. (One player has 70 level 1 toons) This is not "focus," this is sandbagging. Now, while the devs have clearly stated that they did not want to give players a competitive advantage to not level/ gear toons (Paper Zombie), they went out of their way to create an event which gives significant competitive advantages to having unleveled and ungeared toons.

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  • Options
    I don't comment much on here, but this is something that got under my skin a bit. I've worked to increase my GP for my guild, now I feel I'm a bit hosed in this event because of it.
    So my question is, are the reward benefits from a new game strategy if you started a new account better to only boost important toons and leave the rest ungeared/unleveled, or to help your guild gp by building your roster out?
  • Patrick_LJenkins
    164 posts Member
    edited December 2018
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    Between this and the ships (granted, we have 1 square for ships in this Grand Arena...)but 3x as many for characters, though my GP is almost an even 50/50 between characters and ships, while my first opponent doesn't even have a 7* Capital Ship, so I should get an easy 1 square win, but likely to lose the other 3. Some issues stand out...

    But, hey, finding the bright side, at least we get rewards. The brighter side would be to run this simultaneously with TW, so we get both rewards amongst both semi-flawed systems.
  • Options
    Maybe so, but wheres the fun in that, opposed to the meager stuff you get in GA? Let those **** have their way and get over it. The time for a broad rooster will come.....
  • Options
    So you’re accusing a player of “sandbagging” for GA by not leveling a bunch of toons BEFORE the GA mode was even announced? While I’m sure they won’t be leveling those toons now, except the KOTOR ones that will be needed for something, it’s hardly “sandbagging” that they didn’t level toons from several months ago. We haven’t even started the first official GA yet. The formula will get tweaked.... getting the game mode up and running was more important. Let’s quit acting like the matchmaking formula will never be adjusted. The TW formula goes far beyond GP and they are aware that GP isn’t the best comparison.
  • TVF
    36676 posts Member
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    Wow, someone unlocked both Pao and a time machine almost two years ago!
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Haidon
    35 posts Member
    edited December 2018
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    I agree. I feel that this new Grand Arena mode completely goes against what the developers have always stated was a prime tenet for this game: build a deep roster. I'm getting matched against all-gold sith/Traya and jedi/Revan teams, simply because I've been playing a long while. Now, if I could, I'd go back in and de-level every toon I don't use back to level 1, because all that leveling is giving me an unfair disadvantage, because I aim for a deep bench, not a top heavy bench.

    I used to, at the very least, put every new toon to gear IV, level 32. No longer. That method, while helpful to the guild, is totally hamstringing me in Grand Arena. I'm glad I was lazy on the last 2 months of marquees.

    Really, the number of level 1 characters on one's account should be a cause for segregation.
  • jkray622
    1636 posts Member
    edited December 2018
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    No, to "Sandbag" means to deliberately perform at a lower level than you can. These players have been "not leveling" those characters for years - this is not something they did in response to GA. Players who are removing mods from a chunk of their roster are actively sandbagging.

    These players chose not to spend resources to artificially inflate their GP. Instead, all their resources went into upper tier characters that provided them with value in various aspects of the game. Since this is a game of resource management, the decisions those players have made are giving them a competitive advantage in this aspect of the game.

    I've got a friend who started playing over a year later than me. His GP is about 1.7M below me, but in TBs, Arena, and Heroic Sith he is almost as competitive as I am. His roster doesn't have any of those "fluff" toons leveled or geared because those would have slowed down his actual development as a player.

    He didn't sandbag - he just hasn't had the gear or credits to "waste." He's an awesome player with laser focus, and now he's being rewarded for that. Perhaps your opponents are the same way.

  • Options
    Who the hell cares. I get stuff either way.
    Hey, it's still better than MSF
  • Options
    Sorry OP, you're way off on this one. Over half of those toons shown are marquee characters that came out in the last half a year or so. Of the remaining 10, 7 of them are absolutely terrible characters and two are decent only as pilots.

    Why, exactly, should this person feel obligated to take resources away from the characters they use to bring these guys up again?
  • Options
    It's not sandbagging, it's resource management. A bunch of G8 level 85 toons are worthless except for TB deployments. You help your guild, and yourself, a lot more by having a few strong teams than a ton of GP inflating ones.
  • Options
    Any time there is a new mod, some are ready and some are not. But now all know what they have to do if they want to do well in GA; field 10-14 PvP quality squads. If your GP is high but you don’t have enough squads, then you know what you have to do.
  • Options
    When it takes months to farm a hard node to 7*, Why do you think all those characters are sitting like that? Because with few exceptions, a 3*, level 85 G11 character has little of value. Except for GP deployment in TB.
  • Lio
    1003 posts Member
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    So you’re accusing a player of “sandbagging” for GA by not leveling a bunch of toons BEFORE the GA mode was even announced? While I’m sure they won’t be leveling those toons now, except the KOTOR ones that will be needed for something, it’s hardly “sandbagging” that they didn’t level toons from several months ago. We haven’t even started the first official GA yet. The formula will get tweaked.... getting the game mode up and running was more important. Let’s quit acting like the matchmaking formula will never be adjusted. The TW formula goes far beyond GP and they are aware that GP isn’t the best comparison.

    ^ THIS

    It isn't sandbagging. They simply had a different approach than you did and it's benefiting them. It isn't their fault.

    Other facets of the game benefit you and having a higher PG. Not EVERY aspect of this game has to be a convenient bonus for you.
  • Options
    YamoGetcha wrote: »
    It's not sandbagging, it's resource management. A bunch of G8 level 85 toons are worthless except for TB deployments. You help your guild, and yourself, a lot more by having a few strong teams than a ton of GP inflating ones.

    I don't know about you but I'm not struggling with credits and grey/blue gear. Resource management suggests that resources are in limit supply. They are not.
    Ironically, you unwittingly make my point. G8, Lvl 85 are worthless. I know. So are G1, Lvl 1. The problem is that G8 lvl 85 toons are beyond worthless, they are an active disadvantage. Once again, Paper Zombie: a G7 zombie was better than a G12. The devs said they didn't like that.
  • Options
    YKMisfit wrote: »
    Sorry OP, you're way off on this one. Over half of those toons shown are marquee characters that came out in the last half a year or so. Of the remaining 10, 7 of them are absolutely terrible characters and two are decent only as pilots.

    Why, exactly, should this person feel obligated to take resources away from the characters they use to bring these guys up again?

    I dont know about you but putting gear on a G1 never prevented me from gearing Chewie any other high level toon.
  • Options
    YamoGetcha wrote: »
    It's not sandbagging, it's resource management. A bunch of G8 level 85 toons are worthless except for TB deployments. You help your guild, and yourself, a lot more by having a few strong teams than a ton of GP inflating ones.

    I don't know about you but I'm not struggling with credits and grey/blue gear.

    So, your entire roster is level 85 g7?
    Resource management suggests that resources are in limit supply. They are not.

    Yes, they are. We are not given unlimited credits or energy or gear, which by definition means we must manage the resources we are given to accomplish what we want.

    But, all that aside, this guy had no way of knowing even 3 months ago that GA was going to be a thing, much lease 2 years ago when Pao came out. He activated the character and then left it alone. This is not sandbagging. Sandbagging would be deliberately dropping your GP after learning that it would give you an advantage, not leaving your characters you don't have a use for alone for ... well, forever.
  • Snake2
    1455 posts Member
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    Agreed that this is not sand bagging. However, if the matchmaking is going to be gp based, how about only looking at the gp of the number of toons required for the mode?

    So if you're setting 7 teams on defense, do a match based on the total combined gp of the top 70 toons. ( 5 toons for 7 defense and 7 offense squads).

    It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be better.
  • Options
    This thread is getting way more attention than it deserves. OP's rage is misdirected. Beef is with the event, not the player.

    Advice: get over it OP. You made your choices, now deal with the consequences. It will be okay, draw on your inner strength to persevere and you will survive this ordeal. It's a game, try to enjoy it.
  • Options
    YamoGetcha wrote: »
    It's not sandbagging, it's resource management.

    This.

  • Options
    For people with gp over, say, 3.5m, a better pairing algorithm would look only at toons g10 and up and ignore the rest
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    So, your entire roster is level 85 g7?

    I've been playing for 3 years. I'm at the point where I can level grey mods just to see. Unfortunately, I cant unlevel my useless toons. Now, your answer seems to be that I should have predicted GA 3 years ago and planned ahead.
  • Options
    Now, your answer seems to be that I should have predicted GA 3 years ago and planned ahead.

    That's what you're accusing the guy in your image of doing.
  • Boba_The_Fetter
    3393 posts Member
    edited December 2018
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    There should be more factors in the matchmaking algorithm. Currently it's quite obviously just total gp.....thats it... That's the whole system. It should include how many zetas, how many G12, how many legendaries, how many heroes journey toons and then go from there.

    But jeez that would require work
  • Options
    Are people familiar with the term "ex post facto"? It literally means "after the fact." When I started 3 years ago, we were encouraged to max out toons. In fact, mod farming required useless toons. Additionally, some toons became useless as the game progressed. Zmaul, ZQGJ were meta, now they are on the trash heap.
    Then came TB and we were told to build GP.
    Now GA tells us to not level. I'm sorry, but I can't unlevel and unzeta characters from 2 years ago.
  • Boov
    604 posts Member
    Options
    translation:
    I'm angry, so i feel like it's justified to baselessly accuse someone else of using a cheap tactic, but secretly i want nothing more than to be able to unlevel my toons in order to have a better chance of winning.
  • Options
    It’s garbage like this that makes CG ignore player feedbacks because no matter what they do, some people WILL find something to complain about.
  • Options
    @C_Augustus1 So would you rather he didn't bother activating those toons at all? What point exactly are you trying to make, outside of complaining about the fact that someone didn't bother to throw away resources on useless toons to inflate their GP.

    I smile when I see rosters like this. I think to myself "this player gets it", and then I look at their mods, and I find I'm usually right.
  • Jarvind
    3928 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Options
    "This person didn't waste resources on unused characters, therefore they should be punished!"
    Are people familiar with the term "ex post facto"? It literally means "after the fact." When I started 3 years ago, we were encouraged to max out toons. In fact, mod farming required useless toons. Additionally, some toons became useless as the game progressed. Zmaul, ZQGJ were meta, now they are on the trash heap.
    Then came TB and we were told to build GP.
    Now GA tells us to not level. I'm sorry, but I can't unlevel and unzeta characters from 2 years ago.

    I'm lost, here - is there some reason you can't use those characters in GA? Maybe they won't work great as a first line of defense, but for your back territories or as an attacker they're likely still fine. You have to remember that your opponent is playing the same game as you, trying to balance how many "good" teams they need to put on defense while still leaving adequate resources to attack with. If they go a little light on the attack, your "useless" Zmaul sith team might work perfectly well.

    During the trial run I busted out a team of Ackbar, Princess Leia, Lando Calrissian, Wedge, and Young Lando. That's an absolute garbage team, but on offense against a similar-GP team it worked alright, because the AI is dumb and easy to beat.
  • Boov
    604 posts Member
    Options
    Are people familiar with the term "ex post facto"? It literally means "after the fact."

    hahah, i love people who use a "difficult" word in order for them to be able to explain what that word means so that the others whom are clearly not as smart as them can understand what they're saying.
    0mKXcg1.gif
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